Women's Boxing in the Olympics (30 Viewers)

[fatso]

Yes but also saying it’s due to wokeness. It’s not. It’s an edge case where assignment of sex is not straight forward.

Then maybe we should have the "trans" games, like the invictus games only for people who don't know if their penis is a male or female one.

 

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[Mucca Mad Boys]

It seems to me that people don't actually want a clear test, they want to go off vibes.

This woman has been boxing in women's events for years and appeared in previous Olympics yet now has been seized seemingly based not on the olympics gender testing but because people don't 'feel' she's a woman. IMO the fact that it's boxing is being exploited for the safety angle.

There's plenty of fights where one person is so clearly ahead of the other you could play the safety card.

Noticeable how quickly the narrative has changed from people who have switched from participating as a male to female being an issue to someone who has lived their whole life as a woman and is biologically a woman.

Well, not if you have XY chromosomes.

View attachment 37355

Ironically, the trans lobby used the existence of intersex people to peddle the idea that biological sex wasn’t binary.

Biologically, the athlete in question has XY chromosomes and is therefore biologically male. With intersex people they have sex organs of both genders.

Anyway, the issue isn’t all of this. The IOC set these ‘gender tests’ which the athlete failed and has been allowed to compete in competition. On principle, this isn’t different to an athlete failing a drugs test and in that scenario an athlete would be barred from competition and medals retrospectively withdrawn. Yet here, the athlete is allowed to compete.

Before it gets mentioned, testosterone is measured in male athlete, specifically in combat sports.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Then maybe we should have the "trans" games, like the invictus games only for people who don't know if their penis is a male or female one.

100% - there should be separate categories, it’s not fair on the athletes. The biological women who have to compete against people with a biological advantage as well as the athletes at the centre of these storms.

It’s not an issue in male sports because intersex men with XX chromosomes or trans men won’t have the biological advantages that biological men (XY chromosomes) have.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

I was confused over the man/woman thing.

Nights out for you must have been interesting mate.

 

[Nick]

Nights out for you must have been interesting mate.

More options though!

 

[Liquid Gold]

The athlete in question has XY chromosomes and has failed the IOC's 'gender test' yet is still allowed to compete.

I've been seeing online for a couple of years now that gender is just a construct and the only thing that matters is sex.

If this is true then how can a person that can give birth be a man?

 

[skybluecam]

The athlete in question has XY chromosomes and has failed the IOC's 'gender test' yet is still allowed to compete.

Wrong, please get basic facts right if you're going to contribute to a discussion like this.

 

[fatso]

Wrong, please get basic facts right if you're going to contribute to a discussion like this.

Wow, that sounded a bit stroppy,
Is it your time of month mate?

 

[Nuskyblue]

I’d like to see the science around that conclusion. Does this mean that some males will have a higher lever of female hormones?

Definitely, depending on age/genetics body composition etc.

 

[Otis]

Nights out for you must have been interesting mate.

The last one said it was just a very large, protruding clitoris and I believed her, because she made out it's quite common.

When she phoned her mum though for a lift, I did find it a bit strange the mum kept calling her Kevin

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

It is complicated. If some with a vagina and cervix that could get pregnant isn't a woman then who is?

I doubt she can get pregnant, when she underwent puberty as a teenager she would likely have went through a lot of the changes associated with a male such as deeper voice etc.

 

[rob9872]

Ok, probably the most serious question ive ever asked on this board .... if you had both male and female sexual organs and were considered intersex, would you ever leave your bedroom or stay in all day and fek yourself?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Wrong, please get basic facts right if you're going to contribute to a discussion like this.

As you understand it, what is the ‘basic facts?’

 

[skybluecam]

As you understand it, what is the ‘basic facts?’

She didn't fail an IOC test otherwise she wouldn't be competing at the olympics.

 

[Mcbean]

Olympics test consisted of checking the passport which says woman !!!

 

[Nuskyblue]

If we’re looking at safety and physicality what about sports that have mixed teams?

Ice hockey is a pretty aggressive sport and I’ve not seen any complaints about Blaze having female players?

Not quite the same here for me, it's a consent thing. These women want to compete with and against men.

Boxing is far more dangerous too.

 

[chiefdave]

Just because it wasn't compliated enough already Carini has apologised and said the way she handled the situation was wrong

Olympic boxing: Angela Carini says she wants to apologise to Imane Khelif

Angela Carini says she "wants to apologise" to Algerian boxer Imane Khelif after there was no handshake at the end of their Olympic fight.

www.bbc.co.uk

And the IBA appear to be backtracking

The IBA denied Khelif's testosterone levels had been tested.

However, in an interview with BBC sports editor Dan Roan on Thursday, IBA chief executive Chris Roberts said XY chromosomes were found in "both cases".

Roberts said there were "different strands involved in that" and therefore the body could not commit to referring to Khelif as "biologically male".

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

She didn't fail an IOC test otherwise she wouldn't be competing at the olympics.

Splitting hairs over a wrong acronym - the IBA tested these athletes and banned them from competing. Since you said ‘basic facts’ were wrong, these athletes failed a gender test and IOC has let them compete. The failed test is the basic fact here, not what governing body issued it.

You know, why care about what the athletes competing think? One of your comments was ‘the athlete isn’t dominant anyway’, which is just irresponsible. Female athletes shouldn’t be forced to compete against biological males (XY chromosomes) in the name of inclusivity and fairness. How is it fair to women competing against these people?

I believe everyone should be able to compete, which is why I support separate categories for trans/intersex athletes. That’s the best way to allow competition to be inclusive and fair.

I've been seeing online for a couple of years now that gender is just a construct and the only thing that matters is sex.

If this is true then how can a person that can give birth be a man?

Intersex people have both sexual organs and this particular person clearly has a womb with XY chromosomes which is possible for intersex people. It’s a minute % of the population impacted. It remains the biological reality that your sex is based on your chromosomes being XY or XX.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Splitting hairs over a wrong acronym - the IBA tested these athletes and banned them from competing. Since you said ‘basic facts’ were wrong, these athletes failed a gender test and IOC has let them compete. The failed test is the basic fact here, not what governing body issued it.

You know, why care about what the athletes competing think? One of your comments was ‘the athlete isn’t dominant anyway’, which is just irresponsible. Female athletes shouldn’t be forced to compete against biological males (XY chromosomes) in the name of inclusivity and fairness. How is it fair to women competing against these people?

I believe everyone should be able to compete, which is why I support separate categories for trans/intersex athletes. That’s the best way to allow competition to be inclusive and fair.



Intersex people have both sexual organs and this particular person clearly has a womb with XY chromosomes which is possible for intersex people. It’s a minute % of the population impacted. It remains the biological reality that your sex is based on your chromosomes being XY or XX.

So as this person is XY man with a vagina and cervix it's true that men can have those organs and possibly get pregnant?

 

[ccfctommy]

Has anybody put a fiver on her to win it yet?

 

[Jamesimus]

Splitting hairs over a wrong acronym - the IBA tested these athletes and banned them from competing. Since you said ‘basic facts’ were wrong, these athletes failed a gender test and IOC has let them compete. The failed test is the basic fact here, not what governing body issued it.

You know, why care about what the athletes competing think? One of your comments was ‘the athlete isn’t dominant anyway’, which is just irresponsible. Female athletes shouldn’t be forced to compete against biological males (XY chromosomes) in the name of inclusivity and fairness. How is it fair to women competing against these people?

I believe everyone should be able to compete, which is why I support separate categories for trans/intersex athletes. That’s the best way to allow competition to be inclusive and fair.



Intersex people have both sexual organs and this particular person clearly has a womb with XY chromosomes which is possible for intersex people. It’s a minute % of the population impacted. It remains the biological reality that your sex is based on your chromosomes being XY or XX.

“The International Boxing Association (IBA), the Russian-led authority that conducted the test and was itself excluded from administering the Olympic boxing citing concerns over its management and integrity, claims the test “proved [Khelif and Yu-Ting] had XY chromosomes”. The International Olympic Committee (IOC) said the test showed they had high testosterone levels, though the claim has since disappeared from its website.”

Worth noting both of the boxers competed in Tokyo before and nothing was said then? Apparently they both have high testosterone but doesn’t sound like anything has been proven otherwise

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

So as this person is XY man with a vagina and cervix it's true that men can have those organs and possibly get pregnant?

Yes and such a condition is called Swyer syndrome.

 

[oakey]

Worth noting that neither boxer appealed against their disqualification, nor presumably, put themselves forward for other tests. This should be simple for 99.9 per cent of us. As they didn't can we surmise that they know they have a DSD which could, or should, make them ineligible?
IOC statement that birth certificates indicate female is risible, unless you want mass incursion into women's sport from all manner of chancers, since many countries allow people to change birth certificates with varying criteria.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Yes and such a condition is called Swyer syndrome.

That's interesting. Never heard of it.

So the baseness of vagina = female, penis = man is just not relevant?

 

[oakey]

Statement made by the International Boxing Association regarding Athletes Disqualifications in World Boxing Championships 2023

As stated, the International Boxing Association (IBA) feels it appropriate at this prevalent time, to address recent media statements regarding those athletes Lin Yu-ting and Imane Khelif, particularly regarding their participation in the Paris Olympic Games 2024. We wish to make ...

www.iba.sport

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

That's interesting. Never heard of it.

So the baseness of vagina = female, penis = man is just not relevant?

Not quite, because intersex people have sexual characteristics (such as sexual organs) genitalia that are both male and female but their biological coding will still be dictated by the makeup of their chromosomes.

By contrast, biological men and women will have XY or XX chromosomes and the corresponding genitalia of that genetic coding.

 

[fatso]

.

 

[chiefdave]

the IBA tested these athletes and banned them from competing

just spent an hour googling and reading stuff about the IBA Championships in question and it raises a lot of questions and certainly doesn't seem like an event you could hold up as cast iron evidence of anything.

Seems corrupt as fuck, not just corruption in boxing but involvement in organised crime and heroin dealing. Its insane!

 

[oakey]

The IOC can do their own tests.
Why don't they?
Could it be too much bother to actually protect women's sport?
This problem is not going away.
There will be more until they do their job by looking at the evidence and being strong enough to make tough decisions.

 

[wingy]

The IOC can do their own tests.
Why don't they?
Could it be too much bother to actually protect women's sport?
This problem is not going away.
There will be more until they do their job by looking at the evidence and being strong enough to make tough decisions.

Can you offer any hope to the people out there in everyday life with this condition so they don't feel stigmatized living their normal life.
The use of the word healthy or unhealthy will not be considered helpful I wouldn't have thought?

 

[oakey]

Can you offer any hope to the people out there in everyday life with this condition so they don't feel stigmatized living their normal life.
The use of the word healthy or unhealthy will not be considered helpful I wouldn't have thought?

There are lots of people with DSDs. Just as there are lots of people with other conditions that means they can't participate in many activities. Not sure what you're asking of me or women's sport.

 

[wingy]

There are lots of people with DSDs. Just as there are lots of people with other conditions that means they can't participate in many activities. Not sure what you're asking of me or women's sport.

Just the wording really, Condition would be a preferable word IMO!

 

[fatso]

.

 

[Como]

IOC puts out correction after president Thomas Bach confuses gender issues

The IOC has issued a correction after its president Thomas Bach got in a muddle when defending a decision to let Imane Khelif fight in Paris

www.theguardian.com

“I will not confuse the two issues,” Bach said, before confusing the two issues. He said: “We are not talking about the transgender issue here. This is about a woman taking part in a woman’s category and for all the rest.

Meanwhile Angela Carini has apologised, apparently she fell down the stairs.

 

[wingy]

IOC puts out correction after president Thomas Bach confuses gender issues

The IOC has issued a correction after its president Thomas Bach got in a muddle when defending a decision to let Imane Khelif fight in Paris

www.theguardian.com

“I will not confuse the two issues,” Bach said, before confusing the two issues. He said: “We are not talking about the transgender issue here. This is about a woman taking part in a woman’s category and for all the rest.

Meanwhile Angela Carini has apologised, apparently she fell down the stairs.

Gets a£100k from gazprom via Trump's campaign against the IOC and other!

Meanwhile

JK Rowling and Elon Musk reportedly named in Imane Khelif complaint - BBC News

The Paris public prosecutor's office says it has launched a cyberbullying probe.

www.bbc.co.uk