Gathering for Tommy / Discontent (88 Viewers)

[Macca]

As much as I’d like to see some of these people get a slap, where does the vigilante-ism end? Far right twats get a beating, go after people the next day tooled up, etc, etc. Needs to be nipped in the bud by law enforcement.

Half of them couldn't flight sleep but i take your point

 

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[rob9872]

This way to the station, with a 15 minute delay due to congestion on the way

@skybluetony176 - this is Jimmy Hill in case you thought it was a Nazi salute

 

[Grendel]

Classic avoidance and deflection. Why are you the only one on here at moment trying to provide some context to the indefensible? Are Dim Dom, Marty, Fatso, ADM, TomRad etc. all too busy trying to the facial tensions in Cov? Hopevthe spirit of Two Tone and Cathedral (peace and reconciliation) wins through..... but I fear not.
Drinking, drugs and hot weather brings out the neanderthals.

I was quoting Rachel Reeves Charles

I’ve said bring the army in you dribbling lunatic

 

[Grendel]

He looks how I picture you David

 

[rob9872]

I was quoting Rachel Reeves Charles

Sounds posher than JRM

 

[MalcSB]

Self defence

Not, it wouldn’t be self defence.

 

[duffer]

In the meantime, the utter brass bollocks of Nigel Farage demanding the recall of Parliament.

The useless fucker spends more time as groom of the stool to Trump, than he does in the HoC.

 

[MalcSB]

@skybluetony176 - this is Jimmy Hill in case you thought it was a Nazi salute

You had better explain to Tony who Jimmy was.

 

[rob9872]

In the meantime, the utter brass bollocks of Nigel Farage demanding the recall of Parliament.

The useless fucker spends more time as groom of the stool to Trump, than he does in the HoC.

Tbf though it is a bit much to be shut for a month. I know it's normal so not specifically having a go at this bunch, but it's not like most of them have been sitting for 5 years, they've only been in post a few weeks and tell us much work to be done.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Self defence

there are comparisons to be drawn here with the other thing about police stamping on peoples heads when unconscious at the airport.

You can’t claim self defence when you’re taking weapons out proactively looking to hurt people, just like you can’t claim self defence when someone is unconscious on the floor but you stamp on their head anyway. You can’t have it both ways.

Arguably the Muslims had more justification to be ‘defending themselves’ than the copper, seeing as there were large gangs marauding around with weapons trying to kill people- but in both cases it’s wrong and yeah there should be consequences, just like the copper has to face consequences.

 

[Grendel]

You had better explain to Tony who Jimmy was.

Tonester thinks it looks like the guy who presented The Generation Game

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Classic avoidance and deflection. Why are you the only one on here at moment trying to provide some context to the indefensible? Are Dim Dom, Marty, Fatso, ADM, TomRad etc. all too busy trying to the facial tensions in Cov? Hopevthe spirit of Two Tone and Cathedral (peace and reconciliation) wins through..... but I fear not.
Drinking, drugs and hot weather brings out the neanderthals.

I'm " trying to the facial tensions in Cov " ?
Is that in English ?

 

[Nick]

there are comparisons to be drawn here with the other thing about police stamping on peoples heads when unconscious at the airport.

Nobody had their head stamped on when unconscious at the airport.

Funnily enough, the video of the bloke having a smoke outside the pub was out cold and getting booted.

It's absolutely nothing like the same situation, is it? (Unless of course, for example the guy punching the black guy the other day got a kicking which he should as it's violence v violence, fuck around and find out)

Arguably the Muslims had more justification to be ‘defending themselves’ than the copper

Are you on crack? If they had just been assaulted and punched multiple times in the back of the head then you would have a point.

 

[Diogenes]

there are comparisons to be drawn here with the other thing about police stamping on peoples heads when unconscious at the airport.

You can’t claim self defence when you’re taking weapons out proactively looking to hurt people, just like you can’t claim self defence when someone is unconscious on the floor but you stamp on their head anyway. You can’t have it both ways.

Arguably the Muslims had more justification to be ‘defending themselves’ than the copper, seeing as there were large gangs marauding around with weapons trying to kill people- but in both cases it’s wrong and yeah there should be consequences, just like the copper has to face consequences.

If they are approached by gangs or rioters and attacked then they have a right to defend themselves.

Plenty of videos of them doing the exact opposite of that.

 

[Grendel]

there are comparisons to be drawn here with the other thing about police stamping on peoples heads when unconscious at the airport.

You can’t claim self defence when you’re taking weapons out proactively looking to hurt people, just like you can’t claim self defence when someone is unconscious on the floor but you stamp on their head anyway. You can’t have it both ways.

Arguably the Muslims had more justification to be ‘defending themselves’ than the copper, seeing as there were large gangs marauding around with weapons trying to kill people- but in both cases it’s wrong and yeah there should be consequences, just like the copper has to face consequences.

Was he unconscious at the airport? He was a maniac who was smacking women in the face - who has sympathy for him?

 

[MalcSB]

there are comparisons to be drawn here with the other thing about police stamping on peoples heads when unconscious at the airport.

You can’t claim self defence when you’re taking weapons out proactively looking to hurt people, just like you can’t claim self defence when someone is unconscious on the floor but you stamp on their head anyway. You can’t have it both ways.

Arguably the Muslims had more justification to be ‘defending themselves’ than the copper, seeing as there were large gangs marauding around with weapons trying to kill people- but in both cases it’s wrong and yeah there should be consequences, just like the copper has to face consequences.

I’m not claiming self defence on behalf of the copper, so I’m not having it both ways.

Im not sure if it’s still the case, but there were certainly many cases where presiding judges ruled that the best form of self defence was to run away.

 

[Johnnythespider]

Whereabouts were you exactly? We are Folkestone and obviously Folkestone and Dover are where people do tend to try and cross over.

Very toxic attitude amongst quite a number here. But like I say, the other half of the town is lovely and friendly.

I actually quit the Folkestone residents group FB, because it was so horrible.

Westgate on sea, just along from Margate, lovely seaside town with very friendly locals, my first time in that corner of England and if you drive through Margate without stopping a very nice part of the world

 

[Nick]

Was he unconscious at the airport? He was a maniac who was smacking women in the face - who has sympathy for him?

Seems like it's more justified for gangs to go out with weapons looking for people than it is for a copper to defend himself and colleagues getting smashed about.

Of course, you get a prick assaulting people and they get a slap or two back. It's the same.

Weird.

 

[Johnnythespider]

I think Robinson's case is cut and dried, that's why he's on the run.

The offence is defined as incitement to hatred, based on religion (Public Order Act, some section or another).

It would be very hard for him to pretend he's not been doing it, unless he's going to claim that someone else has been using his Twitter account for the last week or two.

My guess (and hope) is that he won't be the only person facing this charge over the coming weeks.

He'll end up in Israel, I've seen something showing he owns property there

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Was he unconscious at the airport? He was a maniac who was smacking women in the face - who has sympathy for him?

No sympathy from me, but the fact remains he was unconscious.

The copper felt threatened so booted him in the chops and stamped on his head when he was no threat at all (for Nick’s benefit he “tried” to stamp on his head). The Muslims felt threatened so took weapons out onto the streets.

I don’t see how one party can be excused and not the other, with people calling for arrests. It’s just my opinion but for me they were both in the wrong, and both need to face the consequences.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I’m not claiming self defence on behalf of the copper, so I’m not having it both ways.

Im not sure if it’s still the case, but there were certainly many cases where presiding judges ruled that the best form of self defence was to run away.

Tbf it'd probably be my tactic

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

More of this please

Great to see it done so early, why didn't they do this to the Pakistani grooming gangs as well instead of letting them carry on

 

[Nick]

No sympathy from me, but the fact remains he was unconscious.

The copper felt threatened so booted him in the chops and stamped on his head when he was no threat at all (for Nick’s benefit he “tried” to stamp on his head). The Muslims felt threatened so took weapons out onto the streets.

I don’t see how one party can be excused and not the other, with people calling for arrests. It’s just my opinion but for me they were both in the wrong, and both need to face the consequences.

He wasn't unconscious.

I'm really not sure what you are on about, how can you compare a copper who had been punched multiple times and watched his colleague get her face smashed in to people going out hunting with weapons?

Don't get me wrong, if somebody walks up and whacks a Muslim bloke and gets an absolute pasting in return then it's the same thing and they deserve it.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Nobody had their head stamped on when unconscious at the airport.

Funnily enough, the video of the bloke having a smoke outside the pub was out cold and getting booted.

It's absolutely nothing like the same situation, is it? (Unless of course, for example the guy punching the black guy the other day got a kicking which he should as it's violence v violence, fuck around and find out)



Are you on crack? If they had just been assaulted and punched multiple times in the back of the head then you would have a point.

no I’m not on crack, I was just watching people trying to murder others, and rampage around trying to find non-white people to attack with weapons. Would that not make you a little tense?

I’m not saying one is ‘better’ or ‘worse’, I’m saying that they are both wrong.

 

[Grendel]

No sympathy from me, but the fact remains he was unconscious.

The copper felt threatened so booted him in the chops and stamped on his head when he was no threat at all (for Nick’s benefit he “tried” to stamp on his head). The Muslims felt threatened so took weapons out onto the streets.

I don’t see how one party can be excused and not the other, with people calling for arrests. It’s just my opinion but for me they were both in the wrong, and both need to face the consequences.

He wasn’t unconscious

They do all need prosecuting but oddly you have the caveat that it’s more Muslims carry knives to defend themselves.

On Five Live today a perfectly respectable person said that in the area he lives there is a large Muslim community who constantly threaten and intimidate him because of his sexuality. At work he was harassed by a Muslim who subsequently was fired but is now branded an Islamaphobe (a dumb term that doesn’t even exist)

is he ok to “defend himself”

 

[Nick]

no I’m not on crack, I was just watching people trying to murder others, and rampage around trying to find non-white people to attack with weapons. Would that not make you a little tense?

I’m not saying one is ‘better’ or ‘worse’, I’m saying that they are both wrong.

Again, it isn't fact he was unconscious as he wasn't.

"Arguably the Muslims had more justification to be ‘defending themselves’ than the copper"

Really?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

He wasn’t unconscious

They do all need prosecuting but oddly you have the caveat that it’s more Muslims carry knives to defend themselves.

On Five Live today a perfectly respectable person said that in the area he lives there is a large Muslim community who constantly threaten and intimidate him because of his sexuality. At work he was harassed by a Muslim who subsequently was fired but is now branded an Islamaphobe (a dumb term that doesn’t even exist)

is he ok to “defend himself”

what I’m trying to get across is that there is right and wrong. That’s it. Nothing to do with politics, deflection or whataboutery.

Muslims taking weapons out into the streets having endured massive provocation & seen these animals trying to burn people alive= wrong

police booting peoples heads around when they’re unconscious= also wrong

in your example above= clearly, patently wrong.

I don’t see what the big deal is about calling things out for what they are, no matter what your personal views may be.

 

[duffer]

Self defence

It's a very tricky one, legally. "Reasonable force" to defend yourself, others, and your property, is the limit. No weapons of any kind, or even things that could be used as a weapon, no instigation, no retaliation; it's a very fine line.

Anyhow, the last thing we need, imho, is to add fuel to the fire.

Imagine the damage that someone like Tommy Robinson could do with a grainy five-second clip of a brown person punching a white person to the ground, or worse. Any self-defence context would be immediately lost. It could make things a lot, lot worse.

 

[Nick]

what I’m trying to get across is that there is right and wrong. That’s it. Nothing to do with politics, deflection or whataboutery.

Muslims taking weapons out into the streets having endured massive provocation & seen these animals trying to burn people alive= wrong

police booting peoples heads around when they’re unconscious= also wrong

in your example above= clearly, patently wrong.

I don’t see what the big deal is about calling things out for what they are, no matter what your personal views may be.

Because you quoted something as fact that wasn't fact.

If you are to compare, it would be the poor bloke who got attacked for just walking up the road giving that c**t a hiding.

Using your logic, if I feel provoked by something I'm more justified to go out with weapons to attack somebody based on the colour of their skin than a copper being attacked along with his colleagues.

Weird.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

It's a very tricky one, legally. "Reasonable force" to defend yourself, others, and your property, is the limit. No weapons of any kind, or even things that could be used as a weapon, no instigation, no retaliation; it's a very fine line.

Anyhow, the last thing we need, imho, is to add fuel to the fire.

Imagine the damage that someone like Tommy Robinson could do with a grainy five-second clip of a brown person punching a white person to the ground, or worse. Any self-defence context would be immediately lost. It could make things a lot, lot worse.

i would agree- you have to treat both sides the same too, taking weapons out onto the street is against the law and action should be taken.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Because you quoted something as fact that wasn't fact.

If you are to compare, it would be the poor bloke who got attacked for just walking up the road giving that c**t a hiding.

So what did the copper do then? Maybe I’m wrong, I thought I saw him kicking the guy in the head while he was face down on the floor, then follow up with an attempted stamp on the head.

 

[Nick]

So what did the copper do then? Maybe I’m wrong, I thought I saw him kicking the guy in the head while he was face down on the floor, then follow up with an attempted stamp on the head.

The copper who had just been punched multiple times including from behind.

The lad wasn't unconscious either and didn't have a mark on him.

To say gangs going out hunting with weapons is more justified is just weird.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

The copper who had just been punched multiple times including from behind.

The lad wasn't unconscious either and didn't have a mark on him.

To say gangs going out hunting with weapons is more justified is just weird.

Well it’s just my opinion, that’s all.

Putting myself in the position of both parties. I’d feel more provoked and worried seeing hundreds of tooled up blokes looking for people like me to attack, trying to murder people who they thought were like me, pulling people like me out of cars in order to attack them & smashing up their cars, destroying my buildings over the course of a few days than I would if I had a bloke lying face down in front of me having just been tasered.

and don’t lose sight of the fact that I’m saying going out with weapons is wrong, I am not saying that what they did was right.

 

[David O'Day]

The copper who had just been punched multiple times including from behind.

The lad wasn't unconscious either and didn't have a mark on him.

To say gangs going out hunting with weapons is more justified is just weird.

He was still lying on the ground with his arms by his side.

The Officer is rightly going to at the very least lose his job, if you think his actions were okay then that is on you really but it's a shite look.

 

[MalcSB]

No sympathy from me, but the fact remains he was unconscious.

The copper felt threatened so booted him in the chops and stamped on his head when he was no threat at all (for Nick’s benefit he “tried” to stamp on his head). The Muslims felt threatened so took weapons out onto the streets.

I don’t see how one party can be excused and not the other, with people calling for arrests. It’s just my opinion but for me they were both in the wrong, and both need to face the consequences.

The copper hasn’t been excused, has been suspended and will face the consequences. I‘m not sure what point you are trying to make. The rioters shouldn’t have rioted, theMuslims shouldn’t have taken weapons out on to the streets in retaliato.