Time for 4-4-2 (7 Viewers)

[Covkid1968#]

Think I’m just going to let Robins work it out…

 

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[Matt smith]

Flat 433 for me when everyone's fit

Dovin

Milan
Thomas
Kitching
DaSilva

Sheaf - the more deep lying player cutting out attacks and making tackles, starting moves
Eccles - him and Sheaf just work well together
Rudoni / Torp- the one with licence to drift in between the lines and make things happen, slot back in when defending

EMC - Tats is missing something at the mo, I know LW is his best position but he can do well enough on the right
Simms
Wright

Pretty much the team I would name. I’d be tempted to play Torp/rudoni instead of Eccles though

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

Our best players are in the final third of the pitch this season. Our weakest area is the middle third.

We have to get the ball as quickly as possible with quality into Wright, Simms, Sakamoto or EMC, Bassette, BTA where they have the space to do things. And try and minimise the amount we mess about in the middle third with Eccles and Torp 'play making' and 'pulling the strings'

When the play is slow and the onus is on torp and eccles to play passes to break down the opposition is when the play starts breaking down and we look like we are running out of ideas.

I’m not against 4-3-3 but this is why I’d prefer a 4-4-2, I think it’s just too congested in the middle of the park and nothing productive seems to happen with the ball. Maybe if we had a LM and RM then Sheaf and Eccles would have options either side, meaning there’s less onus on them to get the ball to Rudoni and go centrally all the time, something which just doesn’t seem to be working atm. We’d also still have the runs of Simms and Haji up top to drag defenders with them.

I think playing a 4-4-2 higher up the pitch and utilising our quick wingers is worth a go tbh. I said the same for 4 at the back last year and that improved us. When we’re playing this badly anything’s worth a shot imo.

 

[David O'Day]

so weakening the midfield further and playing players out of position is the answer?

 

[shmmeee]

Our best players are in the final third of the pitch this season. Our weakest area is the middle third.

We have to get the ball as quickly as possible with quality into Wright, Simms, Sakamoto or EMC, Bassette, BTA where they have the space to do things. And try and minimise the amount we mess about in the middle third with Eccles and Torp 'play making' and 'pulling the strings'

When the play is slow and the onus is on torp and eccles to play passes to break down the opposition is when the play starts breaking down and we look like we are running out of ideas.

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

so weakening the midfield further and playing players out of position is the answer?

I don’t really see it as weakening the midfield though, it’s taking pressure of our midfield to go centrally all the time. You’re not looking at the positives of what a 4-4-2 could bring, it’s obviously a completely different set up to 4-3-3 so the patterns of play will be completely different, yes they’d be less options centrally but they’d more options left and right. I’m not usually a fan of 4-4-2 but I think it would help us in the current rut that we’ve found ourselves in.

Could EMC play LM and do a better job of tracking back than Wright? Yeah I think so tbh, who says that he has to play LW or CAM? A player is just a player, they can be trained into whatever we want them to be (to a certain extent) and I trust Robins in getting the best out of players. We currently are playing without a system or style, we need something to grasp in order to improve our performances, maybe 4-4-2 isn’t the answer but I think it’s worth a go for a few weeks.

 

[David O'Day]

I don’t really see it as weakening the midfield though, it’s taking pressure of our midfield to go centrally all the time. You’re not looking at the positives of what a 4-4-2 could bring, it’s obviously a completely different set up to 4-3-3 so the patterns of play will be completely different, yes they’d be less options centrally but they’d more options left and right. I’m not usually a fan of 4-4-2 but I think it would help us in the current rut that we’ve found ourselves in.

Could EMC play LM and do a better job of tracking back than Wright? Yeah I think so tbh, who says that he has to play LW or CAM? A player is just a player, they can be trained into whatever we want them to be (to a certain extent) and I trust Robins in getting the best out of players. We currently are playing without a system or style, we need something to grasp in order to improve our performances, maybe 4-4-2 isn’t the answer but I think it’s worth a go for a few weeks.

no, it's weakening the midfield

other teams will just flood the midfield and keep the ball from us

i'll pass on that please

 

[lord_garrincha]

View attachment 38250

The irony of the cover is that, under Charles Hughes hoof ball tactics, Maradona would have got neck ache watching the ball go over his head for 90 minutes!

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

no, it's weakening the midfield

other teams will just flood the midfield and keep the ball from us

i'll pass on that please

Fair enough, I disagree with you but something definitely needs to change, we’ve been wank at times this season. Sheaf coming back will help but there’s a lot of pressure on the players to step up, if that doesn’t happen then where do we go?

 

[Matt smith]

Wish we had Chris badlan

Imagine what he’d have done with 40 million quid….

Hyam
Maatsen
Doyle
Hamer
O hare
Vik

I could go on

 

[eastwoodsdustman]

Yep let's make a weak midfield, even weaker. Great plan.

Out of possession the one or both of the wingers narrow in and one of the forwards can drop in as well. then revert to wider/more advanced positions when possession is regained.
My issue at the minute is that the striker is very isolated when we regain possession in our own half and the ball ends up coming straight back at us way too often putting us under almost constant pressure for periods.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I think after that dismal performance we need to change something. Changing Robins right now isn’t the answer, he deserves at least the season, and we can’t change players as the window is obviously over, so I think one of the few things we can change is the formation and the starting 11.

I remember at the start of last season I was calling for us to change from 5 to 4 at the back and I think that helped significantly, however with the amount of attackers we’ve got and the lack of decent midfielders we’ve got, I think we should move to a 4-4-2. Use the ample wingers we’ve got to provide width and take the pressure of us having to feed everything through the midfield centrally. Currently it’s not working and with having less midfielders for rotation (either tiredness or injuries) we should use less midfielders and more of our wide players.

Dovin
Van Ewijk, Lati/Thomas, Binks, Bidwell
Saka, Torp, Sheaf/Eccles, Mason-Clark
Simms, Wright

No

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

No

Cheers

 

[David O'Day]

Fair enough, I disagree with you but something definitely needs to change, we’ve been wank at times this season. Sheaf coming back will help but there’s a lot of pressure on the players to step up, if that doesn’t happen then where do we go?

it's not a change in formation we need, it's to play quicker

 

[SleepyGinger]

I think after that dismal performance we need to change something. Changing Robins right now isn’t the answer, he deserves at least the season, and we can’t change players as the window is obviously over, so I think one of the few things we can change is the formation and the starting 11.

I remember at the start of last season I was calling for us to change from 5 to 4 at the back and I think that helped significantly, however with the amount of attackers we’ve got and the lack of decent midfielders we’ve got, I think we should move to a 4-4-2. Use the ample wingers we’ve got to provide width and take the pressure of us having to feed everything through the midfield centrally. Currently it’s not working and with having less midfielders for rotation (either tiredness or injuries) we should use less midfielders and more of our wide players.

Dovin
Van Ewijk, Lati/Thomas, Binks, Bidwell
Saka, Torp, Sheaf/Eccles, Mason-Clark
Simms, Wright

Getting over ran in midfield so take a midfielder out?

 

[SleepyGinger]

Id like to see a midfield 3 of Rudoni and Torp infront of Sheaf when he is back fit

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Getting over ran in midfield so take a midfielder out?

I think more the intention is to change the style so less of the game is played in the midfield area.

Not to take out a player but still fuck about with it in midfield with just one less player.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

it's not a change in formation we need, it's to play quicker

The problem we have is that Robins sets up not to lose first and foremost. It looks like the message is - if you don’t lose the ball you can’t concede.

it leads slow low risk passing, often side to side. The downside to losing O’Hare and to an extent Palmer is that we now have nobody who wants to try that risky pass to unlock a defence

 

[fernandopartridge]

The problem we have is that Robins sets up not to lose first and foremost. It looks like the message is - if you don’t lose the ball you can’t concede.

it leads slow low risk passing, often side to side. The downside to losing O’Hare and to an extent Palmer is that we now have nobody who wants to try that risky pass to unlock a defence

I don't think that is true at all given how often Robins' will talk about how brave the team are with the ball

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

The problem we have is that Robins sets up not to lose first and foremost. It looks like the message is - if you don’t lose the ball you can’t concede.

it leads slow low risk passing, often side to side. The downside to losing O’Hare and to an extent Palmer is that we now have nobody who wants to try that risky pass to unlock a defence

I agree with the sentiment, although whether it’s Robins or the players or the coaching I’m not sure. Something is causing us to be so slow, predictable and unambitious, and it needs to change quick, there’s a still a chance we can be promoted if the players and management can pull it all together.

 

[Perennial Lurker]

4-4-2 is a dying system in the modern game , just look at United's attempt to play it yesterday

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

4-4-2 is a dying system in the modern game , just look at United's attempt to play it yesterday

Oh but come on that’s United, they’re all at sea at best, even staying afloat in the prem is looking shaky for them

I like 4-3-3 and I remember being vocal last season in calling for it but in the current circumstances I don’t think it’s working for us. Maybe 4-4-2 is the right thing but it’s worth a try imo.

 

[Perennial Lurker]

Oh but come on that’s United, they’re all at sea at best, even staying afloat in the prem is looking shaky for them

On the flip side if you watched the cohesive way Mac Alister , Gravenberch and Sobozslai played it showed how a midfield three should work

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

On the flip side if you watched the cohesive way Mac Alister , Gravenberch and Sobozslai played it showed how a midfield three should work

Yeah definitely, I think 4-3-3 is the best formation in general but for some reason it doesn’t appear to work for us, maybe it’s the players or the way the management approaches it but something needs to change.

 

[Sky Blue Goblin]

The great thing about the 4-4-2 is how versatile it is.

Just look at Stuttgard, Villa or Dyche’s 4-4-2. It doesn’t just have to be one way.
It can be an extremely fluid system allowing the team to move together throughout the pitch.

Id love us to take a step out of stuttgard, and play a fluid 4-4-2 based on the half space and keeping the team compact.

Dolvin
MVE- Thomas- Binks - Dasilva
Tats - Sheaf - Rudoni- Wright/EMC
Bassate- Simms

Beauty with this is if we’re are out numbered in midfield we could drop bassate to form a 4-2-3-1. If we’re losing the midfield battle we can stick our wingers high and play to simms to either knock on the Norman or the wingers either side. If struggling in the centre the wingers invert to create a 4-2-2-2.

Obviously not a coach but think it’s the best shape of us as we stand today.

 

[napolimp]

The great thing about the 4-4-2 is how versatile it is.

Just look at Stuttgard, Villa or Dyche’s 4-4-2. It doesn’t just have to be one way.
It can be an extremely fluid system allowing the team to move together throughout the pitch.

Id love us to take a step out of stuttgard, and play a fluid 4-4-2 based on the half space and keeping the team compact.

Dolvin
MVE- Thomas- Binks - Dasilva
Tats - Sheaf - Rudoni- Wright/EMC
Bassate- Simms

Beauty with this is if we’re are out numbered in midfield we could drop bassate to form a 4-2-3-1. If we’re losing the midfield battle we can stick our wingers high and play to simms to either knock on the Norman or the wingers either side. If struggling in the centre the wingers invert to create a 4-2-2-2.

Obviously not a coach but think it’s the best shape of us as we stand today.

4-4-2 allows EMC to play, because Wright can be the left forward and just drift out wide, whilst EMC can cut inside. Whatever system Robins chooses, he needs to get his players understanding their job roles and how he wants them to play, and the sooner the better. He also needs to be able to switch things up to react to the opposition, he has shown multiple times in the past that he can outsmart other managers. Second half on Saturday was all over the place.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

we need to try

Dovin

MVE
Thomas
Kitching
JDS
Tats
Sheaf
Eccles
Wright
Bassete
Simms

Its painfully clear to anyone this should be considered.

 

[Perennial Lurker]

we need to try

Dovin

MVE
Thomas
Kitching
JDS
Tats
Sheaf
Eccles
Wright
Bassete
Simms

Its painfully clear to anyone this should be considered.

I would swap one of Simms or Bassette for BTA just for his energy and pressing ability, also allows either to come on against a tiring defence

 

[Sky Blue Goblin]

4-4-2 allows EMC to play, because Wright can be the left forward and just drift out wide, whilst EMC can cut inside. Whatever system Robins chooses, he needs to get his players understanding their job roles and how he wants them to play, and the sooner the better. He also needs to be able to switch things up to react to the opposition, he has shown multiple times in the past that he can outsmart other managers. Second half on Saturday was all over the place.

Again another good shout as then you can binks or bidwell in the left full back and have him cut inside as a centre back. This is why I love the 4-4-2 it allows the manager to have the decisions to play chess on the pitch

 

[The watchmaker]

Getting over ran in midfield so take a midfielder out?

That's what I love about this forum - I feel like you are baiting me into the trap of thinking that 4-4-2 has more midfielders than a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1... ‍

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

Personally for a bit til Sheaf is back I'd go
Defending 5-3-2
Attacking 3-1-4-2
I'd play 2 from EMC/Saka/MVE as wing backs.
Good job I'm not manager!

 

[pusbccfc]

Wish we had Chris badlan

Imagine what he’d have done with 40 million quid….

Hyam
Maatsen
Doyle
Hamer
O hare
Vik

I could go on

We've signed loads of quality players with that £40m

 

[BlueSkiesForever]

That's what I love about this forum - I feel like you are baiting me into the trap of thinking that 4-4-2 has more midfielders than a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1... ‍

I just think that we’re concentrating on the midfield too much, it’s definitely our main problem but maybe rather than trying to hopelessly correct that area we should concentrate on attacking areas of the pitch. Give our two CMs more options going forward and maybe our transitions and fluency on the ball will improve, I’m not saying it’s the only option but it’s an option

 

[Perennial Lurker]

I just think that we’re concentrating on the midfield too much, it’s definitely our main problem but maybe rather than trying to hopelessly correct that area we should concentrate on attacking areas of the pitch. Give our two CMs more options going forward and maybe our transitions and fluency on the ball will improve, I’m not saying it’s the only option but it’s an option

The amount of times in the past few games we've seen Eccles and Torp demanding more movement in front of them has been noticeable. We aren't shifting opposition back lines around enough with intelligent movement

 

[clint van damme]

I just think that we’re concentrating on the midfield too much, it’s definitely our main problem

What?!