Do you want to discuss boring politics? (86 Viewers)

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
There’s 2.8 million long term “sick” for a start,
Not sure you get a huge amount of money if you’re on the sick. But irrespective of that you need to look at the causes and how you can help people back into work. Most people do actually want to work and aren’t on the sick for an easy life.

Can’t see that number getting much lower tbh when you look at the health profile of the younger generation. Measurable signs of a large number of kids today being malnourished for example, that’s not going to lead to a strong and healthy workforce in 15-20 years.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
I'm a working person, 40+ years in Engineering, and the Labour party isn't my fucking party. They've never represented the working class, it's a fucking myth.
Bunch of useless looney cunts all of them.


(No better than the Tory cunts)
I mean this is clearly not true.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Don’t you think that someone like my example 85 year old who worked hard all their life and, alongside her dead husband, paid taxes and NI and thus making a full contribution to society with an expectation and promise of support in their later life deserve more consideration than a feckless and jobless 24 year old with 5 children by as many different mothers. Why should my fucking taxes support lead-swinging arseholes like that.

This generational divide seems unprecedented to me, I would advise to be careful what you wish for. If you are lucky, you too will get old.
I am old lol
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
Not sure you get a huge amount of money if you’re on the sick. But irrespective of that you need to look at the causes and how you can help people back into work. Most people do actually want to work and aren’t on the sick for an easy life.

Can’t see that number getting much lower tbh when you look at the health profile of the younger generation. Measurable signs of a large number of kids today being malnourished for example, that’s not going to lead to a strong and healthy workforce in 15-20 years.
And yet obesity is so prevalent.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
Pensioners aren’t working people. You’re literally complaining the party of working people is giving pay rises to working people and not benefits rises.

Feel pensioners should get more benefits by all means. But let’s not pretend people working hard don’t deserve pay rises and we should be giving millionaires more benefits.
I thought Labour was the party of the working class. Most pensioners fall in to that category.
The jobless by definition aren’t working people, so the Labour Party should say “fuck you” as they are saying to pensioners wrt winter fuel allowance.
 
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MalcSB

Well-Known Member
If you’ve got millions in assets you’re a millionaire. Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos don’t have their money in cash either.

I’m sorry but the state shouldn’t be paying you to stay in a home you can’t afford during a housing crisis.
I am prepared to wager (small, obviously) that Bezos and Musk have more in loose change lying around than the average millionaire pensioner.

IIRC in the US you need an income of $1million to be classed as a millionaire.
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
I am prepared to wager (small, obviously) that Bezos and Musk have more in loose change lying around than the average millionaire pensioner.

IIRC in the US you need an income of $1million to be classed as a millionaire.
Isn't their version of millionaire status something like ten times less than here?
Or is it billions?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I’ve got no massive issue with removal of winter fuel payments as long as they find better ways to ensure those that need the cash, get it (it’s why I’d have delayed this decision for a year to make sure plans were in place)

Removal of single person discount* would be OTT for both pensioners and single parents. If we want to hit rich people/pensioners just bump up Council tax for properties worth say 1m+ (2m+ in london) and if they don’t have liquid assets/cash allow it to accrue against the property and be payable on sale or passing

*in Birmingham that would be an equivalent rise of 40%+ in a couple of years due to the appalling mismanagement of the councils finances.

ps I say all this when we don’t actually know what’s going to be in the budget so can’t get too wound up yet

Yeah it would. Council tax needs massive reform and things like single payer discount are a limited attempt to redress the problems.

If they’re going to fuck about with it then it needs root and branch reform so a semi in Blackpool isn’t paying more taxes than Buckingham Palace.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I thought Labour was the party of the working class. Most pensioners fall in to that category.
The jobless by definition aren’t working people, so the Labour Party should say “fuck you” as they are saying to pensioners wrt winter fuel allowance.

By definition no pensioners are working class. Because they don’t work. They survive on assets appreciation and benefits mostly.
 

Nick

Administrator
Wouldn't be surprised if the single person reduction was scrapped. Bit of a joke really.

Better off flying to France and getting a boat back and losing my passport in a couple of years.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
By definition no pensioners are working class. Because they don’t work. They survive on assets appreciation and benefits mostly.
Many pensioners work what are you on about? Most have pensions oddly they’ve paid into and the state pension which again they’ve earned
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Pretty sure there's plenty of pensioners who work.

Yeah fair. But the point is the Labour Party are supposed to be for the majority of working people and they have different class interests to those making money from asset appreciation like housing and pensions.
 

Nick

Administrator
Yeah fair. But the point is the Labour Party are supposed to be for the majority of working people and they have different class interests to those making money from asset appreciation like housing and pensions.

I'm a working person. They do fuck all for me.

What sort of working person are they meant to be for? If anything, they are for prisoners and asylum seekers.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Yeah fair. But the point is the Labour Party are supposed to be for the majority of working people and they have different class interests to those making money from asset appreciation like housing and pensions.

Why do you hate old people? Have you issues with parents?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I'm a working person. They do fuck all for me.

What sort of working person are they meant to be for? If anything, they are for prisoners and asylum seekers.

Why? What have they don’t since coming in that’s made you think that? Because the prisons were full when they arrived? Because they did the biggest deportation ever? It’s just shit racist memes mate.

This lot don’t seem to be doing much, but as a principle I’d rather give money to those who need it than those who don’t. Pensioners aren’t the demographic they were twenty years ago, they have the most wealth and the most disposable income. I’d much rather give families £300 than wealthy pensioners as a matter of principle.
 

Nick

Administrator
Why? What have they don’t since coming in that’s made you think that? Because the prisons were full when they arrived? Because they did the biggest deportation ever? It’s just shit racist memes mate.

This lot don’t seem to be doing much, but as a principle I’d rather give money to those who need it than those who don’t. Pensioners aren’t the demographic they were twenty years ago, they have the most wealth and the most disposable income. I’d much rather give families £300 than wealthy pensioners as a matter of principle.
Who needs it? People who don't work? People fleeing Albania? Is it just a meme?

Of course there will be rich pensioners, plenty who aren't though. No reason to give millionaires any help with the heating, it doesn't mean don't give it to the people who aren't.

As somebody who works, lives alone etc. How are they going to benefit me in any way? If anything, I'll just be paying more tax for fuck all. I pay for prescriptions, dental care and because of not being able to get appointments I've had to pay myself for other treatments.

What exactly is "the working man" nowadays?
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Who needs it? People who don't work? People fleeing Albania? Is it just a meme?

Of course there will be rich pensioners, plenty who aren't though.

As somebody who works, lives alone etc. How are they going to benefit me in any way? If anything, I'll just be paying more tax for fuck all.

What are you on about?

What more tax? What Albanians? Are you quite alright?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
What are you on about?

What more tax? What Albanians? Are you quite alright?

That’s ironic. Youve spent the last 48 hours on here with some freaky hatred of a section of the community - it’s really fucking strange
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
I’ve got no massive issue with removal of winter fuel payments as long as they find better ways to ensure those that need the cash, get it (it’s why I’d have delayed this decision for a year to make sure plans were in place)

Removal of single person discount* would be OTT for both pensioners and single parents. If we want to hit rich people/pensioners just bump up Council tax for properties worth say 1m+ (2m+ in london) and if they don’t have liquid assets/cash allow it to accrue against the property and be payable on sale or passing

*in Birmingham that would be an equivalent rise of 40%+ in a couple of years due to the appalling mismanagement of the councils finances.

ps I say all this when we don’t actually know what’s going to be in the budget so can’t get too wound up yet
Why let the London bastards off. The council tax for band H is a mere £1,946. It’s £4,590 in Coventry.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
Why? What have they don’t since coming in that’s made you think that? Because the prisons were full when they arrived? Because they did the biggest deportation ever? It’s just shit racist memes mate.

This lot don’t seem to be doing much, but as a principle I’d rather give money to those who need it than those who don’t. Pensioners aren’t the demographic they were twenty years ago, they have the most wealth and the most disposable income. I’d much rather give families £300 than wealthy pensioners as a matter of principle.
I’d much rather keep my money than give it to wasters and illegal immigrants as a matter of principle.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
You're right to talk of a generational divide. My generation is the first to be worse off than the one which came before, and Gen Z are looking at something similar. Permanent full time work is harder to come by, house prices have risen up faster than inflation for decades, a university degree puts you into £30k+ of debt, and if you are in permanent full time work, your employer will be contributing much less to your pension.

3 years ago until she passed, my gran was the 85 year old widow you were describing, worked as a primary school teacher and married to an NHS doctor. I'd say they got the rewards their hard work deserved. The problem is, many in my generation will spend a lifetime working hard to probably not own a house, to have much less in their pension pot (if they have one), and having seen the value of their wages continue to drop.

You're right to be concerned about the impact the current cuts will have on today's pensioners. But this is a generation that was buying houses in the 60s for nearly as much as what my wife and I will pay for one month's mortgage instalment. If today's pensioners are going to struggle, the ones in the next few generations to come are royally screwed.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
You are so bitter and angry despite your privileges
Of course. Stating financial reality is bitterness.

On a serious point-you made threats against CC4L for a bogus accusation of racism. You haven't retracted what you said the other week-noted.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Of course. Stating financial reality is bitterness.

On a serious point-you made threats against CC4L for a bogus accusation of racism. You haven't retracted what you said the other week-noted.

here’s a thing about financial reality - I know 3 people in their 20’s who’ve worked from 16 and have saved enough to pay a huge deposit - one £80,000 at 27

Your comment was no more or less racist than the Engrish nonsense - own both
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
here’s a thing about financial reality - I know 3 people in their 20’s who’ve worked from 16 and have saved enough to pay a huge deposit - one £80,000 at 27

Your comment was no more or less racist than the Engrish nonsense - own both
Your evidence is anecdotal, the empirical evidence shows the millennial generation is worse off than the ones before. A joke about a stereotypical Japanese evidence is the same as comparing two players getting fouled a lot? Of course it is.

You clearly aren't interested in genuine discussion on here besides going on the contrarian wind up.
 

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