Do you want to discuss boring politics? (98 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

There’s an article in the London Economic pointing out that Boris took more in freebies to decorate his flat than Starmer has taken since being leader of the Labour Party (2019) sonI don’t think that’s remotely true.

Is it a good look for Starmer that he’s taken as much as he has? No, absolutely not. It’s poor decision making. But there’s no need to exaggerate that he’s taken more than anyone else. Especially when you have someone like Boris in the mix.

It’s not true. Boris’ figure was something like £6m in gifts to Starmer’s £100k but because he’s not an MP any more he’s not counted.

 

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[Como]

This thread needs to be renamed, nothing boring, everyday a new one.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

This is going well!

Dozens let out of prison under emergency release scheme were freed by mistake

Edit: Ha - beaten by a split second!

 

[shmmeee]

But you would know that from education

Same problems isn’t it? At scale you can’t reproduce the very best practice because there’s just not that many quality people due to wages, has to pick up all the problems every other public health issue creates.

 

[MalcSB]

There’s an article in the London Economic pointing out that Boris took more in freebies to decorate his flat than Starmer has taken since being leader of the Labour Party (2019) so I don’t think that’s remotely true.

Is it a good look for Starmer that he’s taken as much as he has? No, absolutely not. It’s poor decision making. But there’s no need to exaggerate that he’s taken more than anyone else. Especially when you have someone like Boris in the mix.

Bear in mind, it wasn’t his flat.

 

[skybluetony176]

It’s not true. Boris’ figure was something like £6m in gifts to Starmer’s £100k but because he’s not an MP any more he’s not counted.

The number 10 flat refurb that was gifted to Boris by a Lord Brownlow, final bill was reported at £200k. Following leaked invoices.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

This thread needs to be renamed, nothing boring, everyday a new one.

Bound to happen
I’m surprised it’s as low as 37

 

[MalcSB]

Subsidised by donors. Not tax payers.

What are you actually asking for?

Why shouldn’t a politician have campaign costs covered by donors? And why only small gifts from close people and not the millions from vested interests? And if you get rid of them do you want taxpayers to fund campaign costs instead?

It’s just all so random and illogical. Half the time it’s “the PM/LOTO shouldn’t have nice things” and the other it’s “oh corruption, but ignore a petrochemical firm pouring millions in cash in”. Just comes off as confected.

How many millions has Dale Vince donated to the Labour Party?
Will his companies benefit from Labour policy?

 

[skybluetony176]

Bear in mind, it wasn’t his flat.

So?

 

[MalcSB]

The number 10 flat refurb that was gifted to Boris by a Lord Brownlow, final bill was reported at £200k. Following leaked invoices.

But it wasn’t his flat, it is public property,

 

[MalcSB]

So?

So Boris got someone to pay for redecorating part of a public building. He didn’t profit personally as far as we know.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Genuinely. Is the problem that this guy is a donor or what? If it was his rich mate from school would that have been better? Lord Ali clearly is close friends with several Labour MPs and a long time supporter of the party. If he’s not allowed to donate literally no one is.

Be clear. What is the actual problem you’ve got and what would you like to happen? Because it comes off just as “politicians shouldn’t have rich friends”, which considering a PM who was a literal multi millionaire who no one commented on it seems a little false outrage.

I'm not that bothered about if I'm honest, just find the all round hypocrisy (from media of various persuasions, Labour and Tories alike quite funny / depressing)

 

[skybluetony176]

So Boris got someone to pay for redecorating part of a public building. He didn’t profit personally as far as we know.

Again. So? I thought your issue was people buying influence through donations to an MP. The Goldsmiths paid for Boris’s holidays, Carrie never paid for her wardrobe either, Boris got free hospitality at sporting events etc etc. Same as May, same as Cameron etc etc etc.

He’s not doing anything none of the people he’s following either as leader of the opposition or as PM has done. The only difference this time is how it’s being reported. A good example is the wives wardrobe. When Carrie did it she was described as being canny, stark contrast to how Victoria Starmers wardrobe is being reported on. Or any of the things Starmer has personally accepted.

 

[shmmeee]

I'm not that bothered about if I'm honest, just find the all round hypocrisy (from media of various persuasions, Labour and Tories alike quite funny / depressing)

As Andy said, it’s like we’ve just discovered the register of interests. Fine if we want to remove financial influence from politics, I’m all for it. But I can’t help but feel no one is asking for that because the two main parties would feel it the most.

 

[shmmeee]

The number 10 flat refurb that was gifted to Boris by a Lord Brownlow, final bill was reported at £200k. Following leaked invoices.

I wonder how people would take to the Singapore approach which is to pay market rate for good people but ban all hints of corruption and financial influence.

Their transport minister earns £800k/year.

 

[MalcSB]

Again. So? I thought your issue was people buying influence through donations to an MP. The Goldsmiths paid for Boris’s holidays, Carrie never paid for her wardrobe either, Boris got free hospitality at sporting events etc etc. Same as May, same as Cameron etc etc etc.

He’s not doing anything none of the people he’s following either as leader of the opposition or as PM has done. The only difference this time is how it’s being reported. A good example is the wives wardrobe. When Carrie did it she was described as being canny, stark contrast to how Victoria Starmers wardrobe is being reported on. Or any of the things Starmer has personally accepted.

Had Boris made the sort of pledges Starmer did?

Mind you, there is one word that proves that Starmer is still in need of new specs.

Sausages.

 

[shmmeee]

Had Boris made the sort of pledges Starmer did?

Mind you, there is one word that proves that Starmer is still in need of new specs.

Sausages.

What has Starmer done wrong? The Tories didn’t follow the rules or changed them where they didn’t like them. You know about Starmer because he declares literally everything according to the rules.

There’s no accusation of corruption or rule breaking (aside from me keeping talking about YouTube and being ignored).

 

[chiefdave]

I know the old style asylums rightly had a bad rep, but I wonder if something like that but with a more modern approach might help. I also wonder what the cost difference is and if prison is cheaper that’s why we’ve moved away from asylums.

Far more expensive even before you consider that stays there are indefinite where prison sentences are not. People don't get released until they are deemed safe, which is one of the reasons its slightly odd that people get outraged at people being 'let off' when they are sent to such a facility.

Early intervention is the key in fact id go so far as to say it’s a silver bullet

Early intervention is 100% the key. My ex worked in early intervention and the results were incredible. So of course all funding was cut and the service shut down, or officially merged into another service. They then blamed the new service, which was under funded and totally unable to cope with demand, when people on waiting lists offended.

There was also a pilot project, I believe Coventry was one of the locations involved, where mental health specialists were embedded within police response teams so that those with mental health issues could be diverted to the appropriate service rather than end up being dealt with by the police & courts. The results were very positive so of course it was abandoned and never taken forward.

We know the solution to a lot of these problems, we just refuse to implement them.

 

[skybluetony176]

Had Boris made the sort of pledges Starmer did?

Mind you, there is one word that proves that Starmer is still in need of new specs.

Sausages.

Again. So?

I thought this was a point of principle for you, not a point of policy?

Boris delivered nothing he pledged so I’m not sure that’s a rabbit hole you want to go down.

 

[skybluetony176]

I wonder how people would take to the Singapore approach which is to pay market rate for good people but ban all hints of corruption and financial influence.

Their transport minister earns £800k/year.

They rank well in the CP index, 5th. We rank 23rd. Interestingly though Denmark rank first but there politicians earn pretty much the same as ours. Their ministers and PM earn more I think but it does tell you something about the mentality of their politicians vs ours.

 

[MalcSB]

On a positive note, UK economic growth forecast improved following better than expected first 6 months of 2024, now second in G7 to US.

From her response, not sure it is what Reeves wanted to hear.

 

[MalcSB]

What has Starmer done wrong? The Tories didn’t follow the rules or changed them where they didn’t like them. You know about Starmer because he declares literally everything according to the rules.

There’s no accusation of corruption or rule breaking (aside from me keeping talking about YouTube and being ignored).

Don’t take being ignored personally, happens to me all the time - albeit probably with good reason. It’s not much better on this forum.

 

[shmmeee]

Far more expensive even before you consider that stays there are indefinite where prison sentences are not. People don't get released until they are deemed safe, which is one of the reasons its slightly odd that people get outraged at people being 'let off' when they are sent to such a facility.

Early intervention is 100% the key. My ex worked in early intervention and the results were incredible. So of course all funding was cut and the service shut down, or officially merged into another service. They then blamed the new service, which was under funded and totally unable to cope with demand, when people on waiting lists offended.

There was also a pilot project, I believe Coventry was one of the locations involved, where mental health specialists were embedded within police response teams so that those with mental health issues could be diverted to the appropriate service rather than end up being dealt with by the police & courts. The results were very positive so of course it was abandoned and never taken forward.

We know the solution to a lot of these problems, we just refuse to implement them.

Yeah I suspect cost is at the heart of it. Just the justice question of how you treat people who commit crimes due to serious mental illness. And also how you handle release of someone who is still presenting with that illness.

 

[shmmeee]

Don’t take being ignored personally, happens to me all the time - albeit probably with good reason. It’s not much better on this forum.

Genuinely if that was the convo I’d be on your side. And I agreed the initial story was poor optics while announcing austerity. But the football tickets, the use of a flat, the lending money for your terminally ill sister who you’ve known for 25 years? Just feels like a hatchet job at this point.

Neither big party will do it, but I’d love the Greens or someone with less to lose to start a proper conversation about some of the big money that can be directly linked to policy change. I’m far more concerned about that even if it’s not as funny as not buying your own suits. But both big parties are in it up to their neck so no one is pulling that thread.

 

[shmmeee]

I’d pay everyone in politics more (and at the top a lot more. £1m+/yr for the PM isn’t unreasonable), give them the same rules around accepting gifts your average Tesco employee has to sign up for, and ban second jobs and demand stocks are put into trust during your tenure.

Then give each party funding from taxes based on vote share.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I’d pay everyone in politics more (and at the top a lot more. £1m+/yr for the PM isn’t unreasonable), give them the same rules around accepting gifts your average Tesco employee has to sign up for, and ban second jobs and demand stocks are put into trust during your tenure.

Then give each party funding from taxes based on vote share.

Wouldn't that funding approach potentially help to lock in a dominant party? Though admittedly hard to think of another approach.

 

[MalcSB]

I’d pay everyone in politics more (and at the top a lot more. £1m+/yr for the PM isn’t unreasonable), give them the same rules around accepting gifts your average Tesco employee has to sign up for, and ban second jobs and demand stocks are put into trust during your tenure.

Then give each party funding from taxes based on vote share.

There probably ought to be a maximum that can be spent as well.

 

[shmmeee]

Wouldn't that funding approach potentially help to lock in a dominant party? Though admittedly hard to think of another approach.

Yeah it’s not perfect. Wouldn’t reflect mid term changes either really as locals are too hard to translate with only 1/3 each year.

But if you want money out of politics it’s the only way. We can’t pretend borrowing a flat might lead to undue influence but taking £10m off someone won’t.

 

[wingy]

Yeah it’s not perfect. Wouldn’t reflect mid term changes either really as locals are too hard to translate with only 1/3 each year.

But if you want money out of politics it’s the only way. We can’t pretend borrowing a flat might lead to undue influence but taking £10m off someone won’t.

Has he offered to recompense it yet or should we be looking at Jeremy for leader yet?

 

[MalcSB]

Has he offered to recompense it yet or should we be looking at Jeremy for leader yet?

I said earlier, I’m not convinced Starmer will see out a full term.

 

[Ian1779]

I’d pay everyone in politics more (and at the top a lot more. £1m+/yr for the PM isn’t unreasonable), give them the same rules around accepting gifts your average Tesco employee has to sign up for, and ban second jobs and demand stocks are put into trust during your tenure.

Then give each party funding from taxes based on vote share.

Apart from the last sentence I think that’s a decent alternative.

 

[shmmeee]

Apart from the last sentence I think that’s a decent alternative.

How else do you fund campaigns?

 

[Bugsy]

Apart from the last sentence I think that’s a decent alternative.

No it isn't at all.
They are there to serve the country not scrounge. They should do what the average person does and work hard for the title tbh. All MPs across the board since I was born have been in a position to do what's right and what they do is never right just fits agendas like all the people in power they never listen to people who have lived proper lives they all have been tea spooned that's the difference. They are cunts full stop.

 

[Grendel]

How else do you fund campaigns?

I don't see how free clothes is funding campaigns

 

[shmmeee]

I said earlier, I’m not convinced Starmer will see out a full term.

Labour don’t sack their leader when they lose they sure as hell aren’t going to do it when they win a landslide. Behave. You’ve been huffing too much tabloid from the looks of it.