Do you want to discuss boring politics? (94 Viewers)

[MalcSB]

Labour don’t sack their leader when they lose they sure as hell aren’t going to do it when they win a landslide. Behave. You’ve been huffing too much tabloid from the looks of it.

It’s just a feeling, not anything I’ve gleaned from tabloids. TBH if it was fed by anything it would be from people on here who seem very disillusioned already (as you have seemed to be).

Having said that, I worry I’m going to wake up one morning feeling fine only to discover MR has walked.

 

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[rob9872]

So pleased I rarely pop on this thread now, certainly not good for my MH.

I've just read the last few pages and all I can see from those justifying the millionaire PM who vowed to stop cronyism, is 'yeah but Boris was worse'. He was, undeniably, does that make Starmer's position look right, at a time with what's going on and a threat of an austerity budget round the corner?

That said, I'm personally not bothered one bit what he has, the same as I wasn't with Boris, when it's a) private funding and b) tiny in comparison to much bigger issues. This does also feel like a bit of a witch hunt.

The difference in my response is I'm consistent and not based on if he represents a particular team!

 

[shmmeee]

So pleased I rarely pop on this thread now, certainly not good for my MH.

I've just read the last few pages and all I can see from those justifying the millionaire PM who vowed to stop cronyism, is 'yeah but Boris was worse'. He was, undeniably, does that make Starmer's position look right, at a time with what's going on and a threat of an austerity budget round the corner?

That said, I'm personally not bothered one bit what he has, the same as I wasn't with Boris, when it's a) private funding and b) tiny in comparison to much bigger issues. This does also feel like a bit of a witch hunt.

The difference in my response is I'm consistent and not based on if he represents a particular team!

Boris didn’t declare his donations though. That was the point, not the fact donations exist.

 

[shmmeee]

It’s just a feeling, not anything I’ve gleaned from tabloids. TBH if it was fed by anything it would be from people on here who seem very disillusioned already (as you have seemed to be).

Having said that, I worry I’m going to wake up one morning feeling fine only to discover MR has walked.

Starmer isn’t going to quit and there’s no one with a power base to challenge him or precedent in the party for it. He’s here for five years unless he dies. His whole thing has been stability. I wish he’d sack Reeves but that’s not going to happen either.

 

[Grendel]

Labour don’t sack their leader when they lose they sure as hell aren’t going to do it when they win a landslide. Behave. You’ve been huffing too much tabloid from the looks of it.

They have removed many leaders when they’ve lost. Are you off your meds? The deranged dribbling is reaching new heights. It’s amazingly entertaining though so please keep going.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They have removed many leaders when they’ve lost. Are you off your meds? The deranged dribbling is reaching new heights. It’s amazingly entertaining though so please keep going.

Wes Shmmeeeting’s been busy today.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Subsidised by donors. Not tax payers.

What are you actually asking for?

Why shouldn’t a politician have campaign costs covered by donors? And why only small gifts from close people and not the millions from vested interests? And if you get rid of them do you want taxpayers to fund campaign costs instead?

It’s just all so random and illogical. Half the time it’s “the PM/LOTO shouldn’t have nice things” and the other it’s “oh corruption, but ignore a petrochemical firm pouring millions in cash in”. Just comes off as confected.

It's about politics and public perception. It looks bad accepting donations from wealthy donors when your government is telling people to tighten the purse strings even more.

And it's incredibly naive to think that a donor will not expect something in return in one form or another.

 

[shmmeee]

It's about politics and public perception. It looks bad accepting donations from wealthy donors when your government is telling people to tighten the purse strings even more.

And it's incredibly naive to think that a donor will not expect something in return in one form or another.

This donor is already a lord, what more do you think he wants. Some people donate to political parties. If you want to stop that you need to find another way to fund them.

It’s not about that though, because as I keep pointing out no one is actually talking about donations that may have actually lead to policy change. Just attacking a 16 year old for studying in a flat that’s too posh for their liking.

 

[shmmeee]

I mean you’ve even got opposition commentators and politicians saying these attacks are ridiculous:

 

[Grendel]

I can’t think why Tim Farron has sympathy - oh hold on

MP claims nearly £250,000 in expenses

MP Tim Farron claimed nearly £250,000 in expenses last year, figures reveal.

www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk

 

[MalcSB]

This donor is already a lord, what more do you think he wants. Some people donate to political parties. If you want to stop that you need to find another way to fund them.

It’s not about that though, because as I keep pointing out no one is actually talking about donations that may have actually lead to policy change. Just attacking a 16 year old for studying in a flat that’s too posh for their liking.

Ensuring his kid‘s study Isn’t disrupted whilst introducing a change which will almost certainly disrupt other kids whose parents are paying for their education twice is not a good look.

Its a display of arrogance, disdain, superiority, callousness and service to self which is only to be expected from a boomer.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This donor is already a lord, what more do you think he wants. Some people donate to political parties. If you want to stop that you need to find another way to fund them.

It’s not about that though, because as I keep pointing out no one is actually talking about donations that may have actually lead to policy change. Just attacking a 16 year old for studying in a flat that’s too posh for their liking.

It’s not like nearly everyone here spent years criticising the Tories for gifting their mates billions in dodgy COVID contracts…

 

[Nick]

Why is this fella trying to be "close friends" with so many MPs anyway if he wants nothing in return? Seems a bit, weird.

 

[Nick]

This donor is already a lord, what more do you think he wants. Some people donate to political parties. If you want to stop that you need to find another way to fund them.

It’s not about that though, because as I keep pointing out no one is actually talking about donations that may have actually lead to policy change. Just attacking a 16 year old for studying in a flat that’s too posh for their liking.

Funnily enough it was hardcore labour people attacking kids for studying at Bablake or King Henrys.

 

[duffer]

This donor is already a lord, what more do you think he wants. Some people donate to political parties. If you want to stop that you need to find another way to fund them.

It’s not about that though, because as I keep pointing out no one is actually talking about donations that may have actually lead to policy change. Just attacking a 16 year old for studying in a flat that’s too posh for their liking.

Who knows what any donor to a political party or individual MP, cabinet member, or Prime Minister wants? Certainly not you or I, and to assume that Alli doesn't want anything because he's already a Lord is nonsensical.

And to suggest that the press shouldn't have the right to bring these kind of things to the public's attention isn't right either. In fact that's simply authoritarian; the solution to bringing back trust in politics isn't to rein in honest reporting, it's for politicians to behave to the highest standards.

Starmer came into office promising to rebuild trust in politics, and then was almost immediately shown to be taking a vast amount of freebies. He tried to uncomfortably justify some, and ditched others. But to suggest he shouldn't be challenged about it, is frankly bollocks.

I've some sympathy with the situation with his son, and personally I'd probably outlaw protests at a public servant's private place of residence, but does Starmer have no other family where the lad could have moved temporarily? Regardless, it's not unreasonable to report it.

As for all of the other freebies, then frankly it's obvious to me that he should not have accepted them, and should not accept anything similar going forward if he wishes to claim to be somehow different.

As for Arsenal, he should pay for a ticket like everyone else. If his security requires that he needs a private box for his personal safety, then the state pays for the upgrade to that, not a donor.

(See 1.2, Integrity.)

The Seven Principles of Public Life

www.gov.uk

 

[Nick]

I am pretty sure somebody who wants to be close mates with MPs and just gives them money because they are his mate is after something in return from it.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I am pretty sure somebody who wants to be close mates with MPs and just gives them money because they are his mate is after something in return from it.

Even if it’s just friendship

 

[Nick]

Even if it’s just friendship

Who tries to befriend MPs to give them money? Seems a bit weird, doesn't it?

I had to do Anti Corruption training when I started a job, that shit wouldn't pass.

"Oh so you work here? Can I be your mate? Do you want some money?"

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Who tries to befriend MPs to give them money? Seems a bit weird, doesn't it?

I had to do Anti Corruption training when I started a job, that shit wouldn't pass.

"Oh so you work here? Can I be your mate? Do you want some money?"

Sorry I meant friends not buying friendship but friends supporting other friends

 

[MalcSB]

Sorry I meant friends not buying friendship but friends supporting other friends

I wonder how many friends bearing gifts these politicians would have if they werent politicians.

 

[chiefdave]

I am pretty sure somebody who wants to be close mates with MPs and just gives them money because they are his mate is after something in return from it.

where do i get one of these mates who wants to give me tens / hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of free stuff not expecting anything back?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

where do i get one of these mates who wants to give me tens / hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of free stuff not expecting anything back?

We know you have plenty Dave

 

[wingy]

We know you have plenty Dave

Just give it back, simply but there's a point here so suspect he can't!

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

We can't spend years having a pop at the Tories for doing this kind of thing, but then make excuses when Labour do it.

This is my biggest problem with politics, and why I feel so alienated by nearly everyone in it. There's very little integrity, the people involved don't live normal lives and therefore cannot relate to the general public, and when you have hardcore fans of certain parties that get up in arms selectively (depending on whether it is their chosen party/candidate or not) the whole environment just becomes full of hypocrisy.

There's surely room for a common sense party that actually want to do the right thing with the country and do their best with a bit of integrity. The Conservative rule was a joke, and now it seems these clowns at Labour have started strongly in their campaign to try and beat it.

 

[wingy]

We can't spend years having a pop at the Tories for doing this kind of thing, but then make excuses when Labour do it.

This is my biggest problem with politics, and why I feel so alienated by nearly everyone in it. There's very little integrity, the people involved don't live normal lives and therefore cannot relate to the general public, and when you have hardcore fans of certain parties that get up in arms selectively (depending on whether it is their chosen party/candidate or not) the whole environment just becomes full of hypocrisy.

There's surely room for a common sense party that actually want to do the right thing with the country and do their best with a bit of integrity. The Conservative rule was a joke, and now it seems these clowns at Labour have started strongly in their campaign to try and beat it.

It really depends on what exactly he's done, it's tit for tat but that's just rubbish really but there you go, the media are scum really,so whatever comes their way,then fair enough for me!

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

It really depends on what exactly he's done, it's tit for tat but that's just rubbish really but there you go, the media are scum really,so whatever comes their way,then fair enough for me!

It's pretty clear what he's done, and it's a joke that anyone is trying to defend it. It doesn't matter what party you represent.

 

[shmmeee]

Are people confused as to the issue with Johnson and other Tories? It wasn’t that they declared gifts, it was that they tried to hide them. That was the point. There’s no suggestion Starmer has broken any rules.

I swear some of you just get angry cos the papers say so and don’t actually know what you’re angry about. There’s no suggestion of rule breaking like the Tories and no suggestion of corruption.

 

[MalcSB]

Are people confused as to the issue with Johnson and other Tories? It wasn’t that they declared gifts, it was that they tried to hide them. That was the point. There’s no suggestion Starmer has broken any rules.

I swear some of you just get angry cos the papers say so and don’t actually know what you’re angry about. There’s no suggestion of rule breaking like the Tories and no suggestion of corruption.

It’s early days.

How much has Dale Vince donated to the Labour Party?
Is there the slightest possibility his companies may benefit from Milliband’s uncosted eco-zealatory.
I see he is trying to influence his mates to drop the meat and diary requirement for school meals.
Nothing in it for him and his £5m donations then ( answered my own question)

Change indeed, one set of cronys for another.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Are people confused as to the issue with Johnson and other Tories? It wasn’t that they declared gifts, it was that they tried to hide them. That was the point. There’s no suggestion Starmer has broken any rules.

I swear some of you just get angry cos the papers say so and don’t actually know what you’re angry about. There’s no suggestion of rule breaking like the Tories and no suggestion of corruption.

I don't think anyone is more confused on this thread than you to be honest.

This isn't necessarily what is written in the rule book, it's principle and morals. As someone very opinionated on the way other politicians and governments have behaved in the past, it's very silly and hypocritical to sit here and try to defend these kind of actions. They're a stain on the country and all it does is lower confidence with the general public that this government can act with integrity. It's a shame you can't grasp that.

 

[Nick]

Sorry I meant friends not buying friendship but friends supporting other friends

Yeah exactly but my point is it's strange how he makes friends with so many MPs.

 

[wingy]

It's pretty clear what he's done, and it's a joke that anyone is trying to defend it. It doesn't matter what party you represent.

I'm not defending one of those doing the defending him but it's a bad look and simply resolved by handling it back, but then they'll start with, well that's a sign of something wrong which he hasn't done anything illegal, just unwise IMO , I'd imagine it's no bother personally to him, just rich coming from the quarters it has!

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

This donor is already a lord, what more do you think he wants. Some people donate to political parties. If you want to stop that you need to find another way to fund them.

It’s not about that though, because as I keep pointing out no one is actually talking about donations that may have actually lead to policy change. Just attacking a 16 year old for studying in a flat that’s too posh for their liking.

There's more to be gained than just honours. He may have business interests or disputes that having a PM who's accepted high value gifts from you could prove very useful.

I get that others before him tried to hide these freebies and Starmer hasn't (though I believe was late doing so on some) but that still doesn't upset the public or leave him open to accusations of potentially being able to be influenced,

 

[duffer]

Are people confused as to the issue with Johnson and other Tories? It wasn’t that they declared gifts, it was that they tried to hide them. That was the point. There’s no suggestion Starmer has broken any rules.

I swear some of you just get angry cos the papers say so and don’t actually know what you’re angry about. There’s no suggestion of rule breaking like the Tories and no suggestion of corruption.

And I swear, some people don't get angry because it's the party they support rather than the one they don't.

Again, you can't know that there's no corruption, or the intent of the donors.

Whether the parliamentary rules have been broken or not isn't the entire point. It's the hypocrisy of it. Here's a direct quote from Starmer (who at the last count had over £100,000 in freebies)...

"I was really clear with the cabinet that standards apply. I made it clear the ministerial code, they will be receiving a copy of it, and it will have the Nolan Principles inside and alongside it... That is the standards I expect of them.”

Here's the Nolan principle on integrity...

"Holders of public office must avoid placing themselves under any obligation to people or organisations that might try inappropriately to influence them in their work."

To most people, that doesn't just mean declaring gifts, it also means not accepting them if there's any doubt.

If Starmer is serious about cleaning up politics, then following the Nolan principles to the letter, and ditching this culture of freebies and gifts would be a very good place to start. At the moment he's had more than any other MP since 2019.

 

[MalcSB]

Not sure where to put this. Bunch of twats anyway, doing it again.

Just Stop Oil: Protesters throw soup on Van Gogh paintings

Just Stop Oil supporters have thrown soup over two Van Gogh paintings in central London.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[chiefdave]

running government like they've found a tenner in a jacket pocket.