Do you want to discuss boring politics? (78 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

Ozempic with be in the water by 2030 at this rate. Miracle drug.

View attachment 38746

Just reading the article, very interesting stuff. Can't help but feel we need to move faster with this. The article states 1 in 8 adults in the US using these type of drugs. Increasingly they are covered by health insurance as the cost over the long term works out far far cheaper.

But here they are near impossible to get on the NHS even after the previous government promised to fast track them to as many people as possible after initial trials produced astonishing results. Just this week it has been reported that this will be pushed out to 1.6m brits. Sounds good right? Problem is that's over 12 years!



think this is still a big problem. I first went to the docs about my weight in 2010, I've been through pretty much every service the NHS has to offer and frankly they are not fit for purpose. During the pandemic I ended up having a long conversation with a specialist at Walsgrave who happened to be covering when I went in for some respiratory tests.

Without naming these drugs, which weren't being publicised then, he said he was hopefully we were finally going to move away from "eat less, move more". As he pointed out we've been prescribing that for decades and in people who seek assistance from the NHS regarding weight the failure rate is over 99% He said this simply wouldn't happen with any other treatment, if you trialed a cancer drug with less than 1% success rate it would be binned.

He also said that in all honesty many doctors don't believe what you're telling them if you're not losing weight. Even in the medical community there is an assumption that it is your fault.

He likened it to when doctors endorsed smoking and that in the not to distant future we could see lawsuits against companies promised weight watchers similar to those we saw against tobacco companies.

 

---

[chiefdave]

Ed Milliband is pretty thick - his carbon capture 22bn project was undone by a Scientist in less than 30 seconds this morning - he also thinks during the winter everyone will do their shopping in a pushbike -twat !

irrespective of how effective or not it may be surely they can see the poor optics of announcing a 22bn project when you're telling pensioners they'll lose winter fuel allowance and telling everyone else to prepare for pain in the budget because of a 22bn black hole in the finances!

 

[Grendel]

Just reading the article, very interesting stuff. Can't help but feel we need to move faster with this. The article states 1 in 8 adults in the US using these type of drugs. Increasingly they are covered by health insurance as the cost over the long term works out far far cheaper.

But here they are near impossible to get on the NHS even after the previous government promised to fast track them to as many people as possible after initial trials produced astonishing results. Just this week it has been reported that this will be pushed out to 1.6m brits. Sounds good right? Problem is that's over 12 years!



think this is still a big problem. I first went to the docs about my weight in 2010, I've been through pretty much every service the NHS has to offer and frankly they are not fit for purpose. During the pandemic I ended up having a long conversation with a specialist at Walsgrave who happened to be covering when I went in for some respiratory tests.

Without naming these drugs, which weren't being publicised then, he said he was hopefully we were finally going to move away from "eat less, move more". As he pointed out we've been prescribing that for decades and in people who seek assistance from the NHS regarding weight the failure rate is over 99% He said this simply wouldn't happen with any other treatment, if you trialed a cancer drug with less than 1% success rate it would be binned.

He also said that in all honesty many doctors don't believe what you're telling them if you're not losing weight. Even in the medical community there is an assumption that it is your fault.

He likened it to when doctors endorsed smoking and that in the not to distant future we could see lawsuits against companies promised weight watchers similar to those we saw against tobacco companies.

There can be some catastrophic side effects

 

[wingy]

Hmm, Banks getting too much assistance again, reduced payouts to victims of e crime reduction of compensation down from circa £400 k to £85 K.
Next only two days to the anniversary, Israel has the right to defend itself,hmm,, fuck around and find out!!

 

[shmmeee]

Just reading the article, very interesting stuff. Can't help but feel we need to move faster with this. The article states 1 in 8 adults in the US using these type of drugs. Increasingly they are covered by health insurance as the cost over the long term works out far far cheaper.

But here they are near impossible to get on the NHS even after the previous government promised to fast track them to as many people as possible after initial trials produced astonishing results. Just this week it has been reported that this will be pushed out to 1.6m brits. Sounds good right? Problem is that's over 12 years!



think this is still a big problem. I first went to the docs about my weight in 2010, I've been through pretty much every service the NHS has to offer and frankly they are not fit for purpose. During the pandemic I ended up having a long conversation with a specialist at Walsgrave who happened to be covering when I went in for some respiratory tests.

Without naming these drugs, which weren't being publicised then, he said he was hopefully we were finally going to move away from "eat less, move more". As he pointed out we've been prescribing that for decades and in people who seek assistance from the NHS regarding weight the failure rate is over 99% He said this simply wouldn't happen with any other treatment, if you trialed a cancer drug with less than 1% success rate it would be binned.

He also said that in all honesty many doctors don't believe what you're telling them if you're not losing weight. Even in the medical community there is an assumption that it is your fault.

He likened it to when doctors endorsed smoking and that in the not to distant future we could see lawsuits against companies promised weight watchers similar to those we saw against tobacco companies.

There is no proven long term solution to obesity that sticks. Diets and exercise inevitably don’t stick for the majority. If they were drugs they wouldn’t make it to market because patients hate them so much they stop taking them.

We should be doing Covid vaccine levels of production effort here. Obesity is the biggest drain on the NHS other than old age. Forget sugar taxes and banning burger ads, just provide this shit on the NHS and watch the savings roll in.

 

[shmmeee]

Ed Milliband is pretty thick - his carbon capture 22bn project was undone by a Scientist in less than 30 seconds this morning - he also thinks during the winter everyone will do their shopping in a pushbike -twat !

a Scientist eh?

You realise it’s less per year promised than the Tories promised last year?

 

[shmmeee]

What a 49 days!

 

[BodicoteSkyBlue]

My wife’s friend has one. Constant range anxiety and huge cost and time added to journey if not charging at home. I bought a diesel.

Range anxiety? We can charge ours overnight & depending on the temperature we get 210-240 miles. Wife frequently drives to head office in Truro. Stops in Exeter to recharge and then onto Truro no problem.

 

[shmmeee]

Range anxiety? We can charge ours overnight & depending on the temperature we get 210-240 miles. Wife frequently drives to head office in Truro. Stops in Exeter to recharge and then onto Truro no problem.

They all drive 300 miles a day these skeptics. Never off the motorway. That’s fine, but they need to accept it’s not normal.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There is no proven long term solution to obesity that sticks. Diets and exercise inevitably don’t stick for the majority. If they were drugs they wouldn’t make it to market because patients hate them so much they stop taking them.

We should be doing Covid vaccine levels of production effort here. Obesity is the biggest drain on the NHS other than old age. Forget sugar taxes and banning burger ads, just provide this shit on the NHS and watch the savings roll in.

We shall see about that. All I did was control my calories and live essentially the same way otherwise. So far bucking the trend on weight regain also without needing a lifetime supply of injections.

Though the anti depressants I’ve been given to help me stay asleep might undo it all anyway!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

We shall see about that. All I did was control my calories and live essentially the same way otherwise. So far bucking the trend on weight regain also without needing a lifetime supply of injections.

Though the anti depressants I’ve been given to help me stay asleep might undo it all anyway!

Friends lost tens of kilos too recently

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Friends lost tens of kilos too recently

Taking a drug but expecting it to fix everything is the root of the problem. There needs to be very clear communication over how weight loss works and how to maintain it once you’ve reached your goal.

On the other side, maybe as a society stop making it so easy to get obese with big portion sizes, expectations to eat high calorie snacks at work, always finish your plate etc.

 

[MalcSB]

They all drive 300 miles a day these skeptics. Never off the motorway. That’s fine, but they need to accept it’s not normal.

Neither are the levels of depreciation

 

[Grendel]

They all drive 300 miles a day these skeptics. Never off the motorway. That’s fine, but they need to accept it’s not normal.

You decided to not have one didn’t you?

 

[MalcSB]

They all drive 300 miles a day these skeptics. Never off the motorway. That’s fine, but they need to accept it’s not normal.

I regularly drive over 200 miles to the New Forest. Takes me 4 hours as it is. Charging infrastructure really poor at the destination so hugely off putting with respect to EV ownership in addition to all the other costs. I do not want to stop en route and queue for broken chargers.

 

[MalcSB]

Taking a drug but expecting it to fix everything is the root of the problem. There needs to be very clear communication over how weight loss works and how to maintain it once you’ve reached your goal.

On the other side, maybe as a society stop making it so easy to get obese with big portion sizes, expectations to eat high calorie snacks at work, always finish your plate etc.

Fast food is far too available, certainly compared when I was a kid, and then they constantly try to upsell to large. The calories involved are obscene. There were probably only a couple of kids you would class as obese in my year. Rather than banning smoking in public gardens they should ban McDonalds. I find it incredible that people have them delivered to home!

 

[Marty]

Fast food is far too available, certainly compared when I was a kid, and then they constantly try to upsell to large. The calories involved are obscene. There were probably only a couple of kids you would class as obese in my year. Rather than banning smoking in public gardens they should ban McDonalds. I find it incredible that people have them delivered to home!

It's crazy isn't it, and then you have people clogging up the NHS for 15 years plus because they're too stupid to control what they eat.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

because they're too stupid to control what they eat.

Arsehole

 

[Marty]

Arsehole

Hit a nerve? It's simply a fact of calories in v calories out. If you need to clog the NHS for 15 years for someone to tell you to stop eating kebabs 4 nights a week and go for a walk, then you're the problem not the NHS.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Hit a nerve? It's simply a fact of calories in v calories out. If you need to clog the NHS for 15 years for someone to tell you to stop eating kebabs 4 nights a week and go for a walk, then you're the problem not the NHS.

I will write something much more detailed debunking this shite when I have time.

 

[shmmeee]

Taking a drug but expecting it to fix everything is the root of the problem. There needs to be very clear communication over how weight loss works and how to maintain it once you’ve reached your goal.

On the other side, maybe as a society stop making it so easy to get obese with big portion sizes, expectations to eat high calorie snacks at work, always finish your plate etc.

Would you say this for literally any other health condition?

 

[shmmeee]

It's crazy isn't it, and then you have people clogging up the NHS for 15 years plus because they're too stupid to control what they eat.

Have people got significantly more stupid in every developed nation over the last 50 years?

 

[Grendel]

I will write something much more detailed debunking this shite when I have time.

In truth if you are fat you eat too much or in my case drink too much

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

In truth if you are fat you eat too much or in my case drink too much

That is physically what happens but it’s the underlying cause that I dispute.

 

[Marty]

That is physically what happens but it’s the underlying cause that I dispute.

So I was correct then.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So I was correct then.

Correct in saying what physically happens, not in what the cause is. I have lost 6.5 stone in a year, then stopped losing weight despite continuing to eat limited calories.

Still a few stone overweight. Am I too stupid?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

There’s a lot more to weight loss than just calories in & calories out, and if calorie counting is the only method being used to shift weight, then the weight will inevitably return. Anecdotally and scientifically proven.

 

[wingy]

There’s a lot more to weight loss than just calories in & calories out, and if calorie counting is the only method being used to shift weight, then the weight will inevitably return. Anecdotally and scientifically proven.

Yet, were turning into machines, there's a bright new future,it won't be long before we're down the farm hatching humans!🫣

 

[shmmeee]

There’s a lot more to weight loss than just calories in & calories out, and if calorie counting is the only method being used to shift weight, then the weight will inevitably return. Anecdotally and scientifically proven.

It’s not is it?

the science is pretty conclusive that it’s CICO.

 

[wingy]

It’s not is it?

the science is pretty conclusive that it’s CICO.

Stop talking in code please!

 

[shmmeee]

Stop talking in code please!

CICO = calories in calories out

 

[Ring Of Steel]

It’s not is it?

the science is pretty conclusive that it’s CICO.

No. 100 calories of one food can be be very different to 100 calories of another food. How they’re made up, where they’re coming from- the days of just going by calories went out years ago, our knowledge is much better now. Counting calories is a waste (and a very nasty slog) unless you know how those calories are comprised. Modern & really successful methods don’t really even take calories into account too much. It’s good for mindset & discipline at the start, but once you’ve started & got a little momentum you really needn’t bother to track them.

 

[wingy]

No. 100 calories of one food can be be very different to 100 calories of another food. How they’re made up, where they’re coming from- the days of just going by calories went out years ago, our knowledge is much better now. Counting calories is a waste (and a very nasty slog) unless you know how those calories are comprised. Modern & really successful methods don’t really even take calories into account too much. It’s good for mindset & discipline at the start, but once you’ve started & got a little momentum you really needn’t bother to track them.

So which is eat vegy muesli all-day or something other, detail please if you could?

 

[shmmeee]

No. 100 calories of one food can be be very different to 100 calories of another food. How they’re made up, where they’re coming from- the days of just going by calories went out years ago, our knowledge is much better now. Counting calories is a waste (and a very nasty slog) unless you know how those calories are comprised. Modern & really successful methods don’t really even take calories into account too much. It’s good for mindset & discipline at the start, but once you’ve started & got a little momentum you really needn’t bother to track them.

Can you post a single peer reviewed paper that backs up this belief?

 

[shmmeee]

In fact we know it’s CICO precisely because Ozempic works and that stops you overeating.