Our squad (6 Viewers)

[Torquay Sky Blue]

We’re not gonna agree here.

I just don’t see Robins turning this one around. Whether he gets the chance to or not we’ll see.

I tend to agree. We signed too many duds. Lati, Binks, Thomas and Kitching are not as good as McFadzeen. Where's Wally in midfield and Wright not being arsed up front aren't helping him.

 

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[Mucca Mad Boys]

What’s the benefit of those people on a match day?

Physios/S&C coordinators are often the ones first taking the players out to warm them up. That’s normal even at amateur/semi-pro level sports.

As for analysts, it’s part of the prep for match day and on match day it’s monitoring performance of ourselves and the opposition. There’s probably some data tracking of players during pre-match too - all the players have those vests that track a lot of data.

This is professional sports where they’re constantly looking at small 1% improvements here and there. Everything is ‘optimised’.

For example, on Tuesday my good mate pointed out someone saying ‘what’s he doing?!’ and it was one of the physios/S&C people who’s been warming up the players when they first come out since the L2 days.

With respect to many people on here and including close friends personally, this isn’t the 90s where everything was more subjective and frankly, amateur.

 

[Sbarcher]

Apart from Leeds, all our defeats have been by only 1 goal. Surely it shouldn't take our team of coaches long to put this right!

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I tend to agree. We signed too many duds. Lati, Binks, Thomas and Kitching are not as good as McFadzeen. Where's Wally in midfield and Wright not being arsed up front aren't helping him.

Wright is the 5th top scorer in the league. You’re talking nonsense.

 

[shmmeee]

Physios/S&C coordinators are often the ones first taking the players out to warm them up. That’s normal even at amateur/semi-pro level sports.

As for analysts, it’s part of the prep for match day and on match day it’s monitoring performance of ourselves and the opposition. There’s probably some data tracking of players during pre-match too - all the players have those vests that track a lot of data.

This is professional sports where they’re constantly looking at small 1% improvements here and there. Everything is ‘optimised’.

For example, on Tuesday my good mate pointed out someone saying ‘what’s he doing?!’ and it was one of the physios/S&C people who’s been warming up the players when they first come out since the L2 days.

With respect to many people on here and including close friends personally, this isn’t the 90s where everything was more subjective and frankly, amateur.

I keep seeing this. But if they’re all adding “1%” shouldn’t we be at least 10% better by now?

Im not sure it helps more than losing a tight knit focus on match day hurts is all. Does the analyst need to be on the pitch if the kit is working? The cleaning lady and kit man have important jobs but they don’t get a tracksuit and pitch access on match day.

 

[wingy]

Physios/S&C coordinators are often the ones first taking the players out to warm them up. That’s normal even at amateur/semi-pro level sports.

As for analysts, it’s part of the prep for match day and on match day it’s monitoring performance of ourselves and the opposition. There’s probably some data tracking of players during pre-match too - all the players have those vests that track a lot of data.

This is professional sports where they’re constantly looking at small 1% improvements here and there. Everything is ‘optimised’.

For example, on Tuesday my good mate pointed out someone saying ‘what’s he doing?!’ and it was one of the physios/S&C people who’s been warming up the players when they first come out since the L2 days.

With respect to many people on here and including close friends personally, this isn’t the 90s where everything was more subjective and frankly, amateur.

Vive la revolution!

What a load of bollux!

 

[skybluecam]

But you'd agree that a thorough review of all the changes and the affect, if any, they've had on Robins role would be prudent before pulling the trigger?
Or is getting rid of the managers ingrained in your physce you won't accept anything else?

That going to be weird for you if we pull off a result tomorrow

Obviously the position we’re in, there are going to be questions being asked. Call it a review if you like yeah.

I disagree that it should be all about the effect on robins. The end goal is performance on the pitch, that should be the focus of any review.

 

[clint van damme]

Obviously the position we’re in, there are going to be questions being asked. Call it a review if you like yeah.

I disagree that it should be all about the effect on robins. The end goal is performance on the pitch, that should be the focus of any review.

That's fair enough, but it might conclude Robins isn't the issue and changes need making elsewhere.

 

[procdoc]

In my own managerial experience I went from having a team that battled hard in every game to a team that were disinterested. The side I had was mostly young so I knew I needed to sign some experienced lads to help turn those draws into wins and the losses into draws.
I signed experience for the spine of the team. My centre half was a former Bedworth Utd captain for example and although he was getting older, he was outstanding for me.
The point I am making is that experience, character and a strong mentality are important no matter what the level of football is. We lost all of that when Fadz, Kelly and Godden left. I am not saying we should have kept them but we didn’t replace the other qualities they brought to the squad

 

[fernandopartridge]

What’s the benefit of those people on a match day?

Analysts? what do you think?

Physios and medical staff? what do you think?

 

[fernandopartridge]

In my own managerial experience I went from having a team that battled hard in every game to a team that were disinterested. The side I had was mostly young so I knew I needed to sign some experienced lads to help turn those draws into wins and the losses into draws.
I signed experience for the spine of the team. My centre half was a former Bedworth Utd captain for example and although he was getting older, he was outstanding for me.
The point I am making is that experience, character and a strong mentality are important no matter what the level of football is. We lost all of that when Fadz, Kelly and Godden left. I am not saying we should have kept them but we didn’t replace the other qualities they brought to the squad

Even when Fadz was out of the side he was captaining almost from the subs bench, you could see him warming up and talking the centre backs through the game. It's funny really but we barely kept a clean sheet after he'd gone to Blackburn.

 

[wingy]

Organic, give it me everything time over this mechanical robotic approach!

 

[shmmeee]

Analysts? what do you think?

Physios and medical staff? what do you think?

I don’t know that’s why I’m asking. Why do you need medical staff on the pitch or analytical staff if there’s no immediate medical or analytical issues to attend to?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I keep seeing this. But if they’re all adding “1%” shouldn’t we be at least 10% better by now?

Im not sure it helps more than losing a tight knit focus on match day hurts is all. Does the analyst need to be on the pitch if the kit is working? The cleaning lady and kit man have important jobs but they don’t get a tracksuit and pitch access on match day.

It’s not a literal 1% improvement, the concept is ‘continuous improvement’. Some of these changes don’t necessarily come into fruition overnight and not all ‘improvements’ have the desired effect and you need to go back to the drawing board.

Is our setup abnormal compared to the rest of the league or abnormal to way we’ve things in the past? Which, by everyone’s admission (including MR) was amateurish by Championship standards and of course, where we want to be, the Prem.

It’s ironic that, for example, John Eustace has been touted as a potential success to MR and he has a similar coaching structure at Blackburn as we do.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Organic, give it me everything time over this mechanical robotic approach!

What do you mean specifically when you say this?

 

[shmmeee]

It’s not a literal 1% improvement, the concept is ‘continuous improvement’. Some of these changes don’t necessarily come into fruition overnight and not all ‘improvements’ have the desired effect and you need to go back to the drawing board.

Is our setup abnormal compared to the rest of the league or abnormal to way we’ve things in the past? Which, by everyone’s admission (including MR) was amateurish by Championship standards and of course, where we want to be, the Prem.

It’s ironic that, for example, John Eustace has been touted as a potential success to MR and he has a similar coaching structure at Blackburn as we do.

I think it’s classic management consultancy brain that think management hierarchies and job titles matter more than the people in the job. These jobs may all be super useful but as a collective they’ve ruined the playing side and now where do you point the finger? What’s got better and who is responsible as opposed to what’s got worse and who should go? Can anyone answer that question?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don’t know that’s why I’m asking. Why do you need medical staff on the pitch or analytical staff if there’s no immediate medical or analytical issues to attend to?

Medical staff to monitor player conditions during the match, analysts to judge how the game is going in real time and offer more suggestions to the manager.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I don’t know that’s why I’m asking. Why do you need medical staff on the pitch or analytical staff if there’s no immediate medical or analytical issues to attend to?

You have a match day squad of 18-20? You may need a couple of physios/sports therapists to manage the warm-ups / ‘pre-hab’ and of course treatment.

Have you ever been around a sports team on a matchday? My routine would be (as an amateur), get ready, have a bit of a jog/piss about and then the physio(s) would take us through the warm-up/prehab and then split off into groups by position. You see this basic structure in our warm ups on match days. The difference is that this is obviously a more professional operation.

For someone who feels so strongly about this, I’d have expected you to have a clearer idea of what the problem is exactly.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

The hit rate of successful managerial appointments in this division is poor.

So I'm not suggesting we turn in to Stoke or Watford with one change as you well know.

But what if that one's wrong, and the next one?
Not sure how long you've been following city but we've been down that route many times before?

And people with far more experience of running a football club than King regularly get it wrong.

A new man hits a bad patch and the clamour for his head starts pretty rapidly. It's a well worn path.

So all Im saying is, if we go down that route we need to be 100 percent sure.
At the moment I'm not but I'm prepared to accept this could be mainly down to Robins, you don't seem willingly to even contemplate it might not be, you want him gone.

Be careful what you wish for.

I remember the last time we had a manager who over-achieved.

Managed to win the FA Cup. Had us up in the top half of the table. Then we had a bit of a dodgy spell and the Chairman decided to get rid.

Brought in Terry Butcher who went on to undo pretty much all of the good work that had been done in the preceding few years.

Slightly under six years later we were appointing Strachan as our fifth manager since Sillett.

As you say, be careful what you wish for.

 

[wingy]

What do you mean specifically when you say this?

I mean that's where football will end up , when you hear comments like rehearsed move etc I mean you can't deny it as such take Wolves and our 3rd goal and tbf it's not new, it's been specialised from free kicks etc, but to adopt it across the board is well as I said the other day we need a choreographer for a manager under these rules.
You whizkids just want it to be transferable to the screen and then you can interact with it, sorry you did ask,call it progress or whatever, but it's not for me!

 

[shmmeee]

Medical staff to monitor player conditions during the match, analysts to judge how the game is going in real time and offer more suggestions to the manager.

From the pitch?

 

[shmmeee]

You have a match day squad of 18-20? You may need a couple of physios/sports therapists to manage the warm-ups / ‘pre-hab’ and of course treatment.

Have you ever been around a sports team on a matchday? My routine would be (as an amateur), get ready, have a bit of a jog/piss about and then the physio(s) would take us through the warm-up/prehab and then split off into groups by position. You see this basic structure in our warm ups on match days. The difference is that this is obviously a more professional operation.

For someone who feels so strongly about this, I’d have expected you to have a clearer idea of what the problem is exactly.

Im not the one writing war and peace defending it. I was just asking what an analyst was doing on the pitch on match day. I’m still none the wiser but clearly this is a touchy subject for you so it’s fine.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I think it’s classic management consultancy brain that think management hierarchies and job titles matter more than the people in the job. These jobs may all be super useful but as a collective they’ve ruined the playing side and now where do you point the finger? What’s got better and who is responsible as opposed to what’s got worse and who should go? Can anyone answer that question?

Have they specifically ruined the playing side of things? As many people have pointed out, our results from Feb last season haven’t been great.

The answer is no if we’re being specific. MR has spoken how the coaches need to develop and ‘grow into their roles’. They themselves are only human and it can take a while for things to click.

You don’t get anywhere by knee jerking decision. I’m not happy with the state of things atm. Like many people on this forum, I’m spending my hard earned money, waking up early at the weekends to go to games for bad results - there’s been times I’ve asked myself why I bother?!

11 league games in, it’s still too early to lose faith in MR. This next stretch of 5-6 games could be end, or it could be the start of a turnaround.

 

[skybluecam]

Im not the one writing war and peace defending it. I was just asking what an analyst was doing on the pitch on match day. I’m still none the wiser but clearly this is a touchy subject for you so it’s fine.

Why are you being obtuse lol, obviously analysts are there in case they have any insight to offer based on what they're seeing in the match.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

From the pitch?

Yes.

I mean that's where football will end up , when you hear comments like rehearsed move etc I mean you can't deny it as such take Wolves and our 3rd goal and tbf it's not new, it's been specialised from free kicks etc, but to adopt it across the board is well as I said the other day we need a choreographer for a manager under these rules.
You whizkids just want it to be transferable to the screen and then you can interact with it, sorry you did ask,call it progress or whatever, but it's not for me!

This kind of thinking is from a bygone era I’m afraid. I genuinely hope I’m not being too disrespectful in saying that.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Why are you being obtuse lol, obviously analysts are there in case they have any insight to offer based on what they're seeing in the match.

They need to be cooped up in the office with the rest of the nerds apparently.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

From the pitch?

I don't know what you mean by from the pitch, nobody's on that except the players. It's not hard to see why a manager might want information on his players' conditioning during a game, nor why he'd want live analytical feedback either.

 

[wingy]

Yes.


This kind of thinking is from a bygone era I’m afraid. I genuinely hope I’m not being too disrespectful in saying that.

Oh I know that but football is being used for population building and the science side of it is basically an experiment,you will comply with it,or leave it out, it's okay.

 

[Ooh Ah]

Even when Fadz was out of the side he was captaining almost from the subs bench, you could see him warming up and talking the centre backs through the game. It's funny really but we barely kept a clean sheet after he'd gone to Blackburn.

I am struggling that people don't see this. End of last season key issue was conceding goals through poor game management/lacking bite, considering we had two prolific strikers. I think Kitching was brought in to be the new leader at the back post-Fadz, but hasn't worked.

We then lose Kelly from midfield (another leader), and O'Hare and Palmer, with no obvious second RB in terms of numbers, so one injury from being thin. Overlay an attacker focused recruitment, and we are where we are. Why rumoured interest in experienced players with an edge like Browne (Preston), Worral (Forest) or Andre Bernede didn't happen, seems key - could simply be bad luck, but has hurt us.

 

[rob9872]

On the subject of the number of personnel on field constantly being raised:

Last season we had Mark, Dennis and Adi, the bloke and woman who took them for warm up and at half time, Marshy, Aled Williams, a physio a doctor and an analyst. I make that 10 staff, without the photographer etc who walk around in club gear. Most agreed we were a bit light in the modern set up compared with other clubs.

To my understanding we have two extra coaches and poor Claire who is blamed for just about everything. That’s not too many, but the trope constantly batted out about too many coaches, too many voices etc etc as an excuse is pitiful.

 

[rob9872]

I am struggling that people don't see this. End of last season key issue was conceding goals through poor game management/lacking bite, considering we had two prolific strikers. I think Kitching was brought in to be the new leader at the back post-Fadz, but hasn't worked.

We then lose Kelly from midfield (another leader), and O'Hare and Palmer, with no obvious second RB in terms of numbers, so one injury from being thin. Overlay an attacker focused recruitment, and we are where we are. Why rumoured interest in experienced players with an edge like Browne (Preston), Worral (Forest) or Andre Bernede didn't happen, seems key - could simply be bad luck, but has hurt us.

I think tbh as good as some of those were we werent really ever in the running for them and had all our eggs in one basket with Stamenic. When that fell through having thought we were over the line with it we would have been panic buying, so saved the funds and hoped something might drop. Left us even shorter when PAlmer went.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I am struggling that people don't see this. End of last season key issue was conceding goals through poor game management/lacking bite, considering we had two prolific strikers. I think Kitching was brought in to be the new leader at the back post-Fadz, but hasn't worked.

We then lose Kelly from midfield (another leader), and O'Hare and Palmer, with no obvious second RB in terms of numbers, so one injury from being thin. Overlay an attacker focused recruitment, and we are where we are. Why rumoured interest in experienced players with an edge like Browne (Preston), Worral (Forest) or Andre Bernede didn't happen, seems key - could simply be bad luck, but has hurt us.

We have been unlucky and I’m reasonably certain we’re still after defenders and midfielders.

On the McFadz and Kitching point, I believe MR an expected Fadz to last the whole season but the season didn’t pan out this way. It’s noteworthy that the Thomas-Kitching partnership was at its best when Fadz was at the club and slowly got worse with naive goals conceded (and still). It could be a simple coincidence but there’s the possibility that having experienced pros around the team help on match day as well as on the training field. I’m sure Thomas and/or Kitching commented on their relationship with Fadz developing them in training and so on.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Medical staff to monitor player conditions during the match, analysts to judge how the game is going in real time and offer more suggestions to the manager.

Well the analysts might as well go then. MR never changes formation and the sub are always pre-planned.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I was at an event recently when one of the players said that the coaches have specific areas of responsibility. For example one coaches "in possession" and another coaches "out of possession"

It's good to hear that they have specific areas of responsibility.

However, I wonder how much the in and out of possession coaches collaborate? Could part of the problem be where each coach wants them to be are too far apart and the players would struggle with the transition? So instead they're resorting to a halfway house between the two and looking crap in both?

 

[Tile Hill Phil]

I was at an event recently when one of the players said that the coaches have specific areas of responsibility. For example one coaches "in possession" and another coaches "out of possession"

Maybe I’m old fashioned but don’t you think nowadays they try and overcomplate things or am I just a dinosaur