Supporters forum 6pm November 11th (42 Viewers)

[TomRad85]

Pete can you ask Doug what his login is please and if his decision was in any way influenced by Cam, Saddlebrains and co... we need answers

 

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[RoboCCFC90]

We were 19th in November 2022. Finished 5th. No vadility at all.

Very true, with arguably two of the best players in the division, do we have that in our arsenal now?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Your head has gone and the fact people are liking your posts shows you aren't alone. Never seen anything like it, the reaction to this is worse than when we were bombed out to Northampton. Weird stuff.

You don’t have any facts at all to back up your position, hence all this talk of “emotion” to try and quieten things down. Look at Robins’ record, look at what actually happened in previous seasons.

if you can convince me that it’s fine to be lowering expectations to the degree we’re seeing on here, fair enough.

What’s actually happening here is that the people who were demanding Robins’ head now want to play down all expectations to avoid being “wrong” if the new guy doesn’t replicate what Robins showed over the length of pretty much every season. It’s actually very clear.

 

[Nick]

The double standards now emanating from the people that were constantly ranting about wanting him gone, it’s embarrassing.

They’re not explicitly using the words “free pass” but that’s what they mean, we can all see that.

Where are the double standards?

You don't actually make points, you are just hammering every thread trying to ram something home. Again.

 

[torchomatic]

hardly a free pass

Haha.

 

[Nick]

You don’t have any facts at all to back up your position, hence all this talk of “emotion” to try and quieten things down. Look at Robins’ record, look at what actually happened in previous seasons.

if you can convince me that it’s fine to be lowering expectations to the degree we’re seeing on here, fair enough.

What’s actually happening here is that the people who were demanding Robins’ head now want to play down all expectations to avoid being “wrong” if the new guy doesn’t replicate what Robins showed over the length of pretty much every season. It’s actually very clear.

You have zero guarantee that it would turn around, unless you have a time machine and have been forward to check?

 

[usskyblue]

What we had was a manager proven to turn around poor starts. *Whether MR would’ve done so again will never be known.

Now, because of Doug’s decision (and the timing of it), what we’re left with is the complete unknown.

That’s why I, a lot of people around the club, and outside the club believe Robins should’ve been given until Christmas.

 

[Nick]

It's weirder that people have started calling him "Mark" now like he's their mate.

 

[shmmeee]

... because of him sacking MR or other stuff?

Hiring a “name”

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The sacking happened months ago in reality. I think the hope was there would be some moment of clarity from Doug before he finished the job and turned us into Stoke. The pain of losing our best manager in my lifetime is only compounded with the pain of knowing our owner is exactly the idiot we all feared he was.

On the “any other manager” point that keeps coming up. The reason for that is any other manager hasn’t got results to back up the idea of a turnaround. People pro this decision are already saying basically the new guy has 18 months to prove himself, that’s about the length of most managers tenure, because most managers tenures fail to prove in that 18 months they are the right fit. Robins had already proven that. The sensible place to look was all the changes brought in in the last 18 months when the club has gone to shit compared to its prior trajectory.

Why is he an idiot? Everyone knows that our form for a long time has not been goods enough. Compare our record v top half teams in 2022/23 and 23/24, there's a massive drop off. This season, we can't even beat the teams we're supposed to - just look at the league positions of the teams we've lost to.

Given that you regularly slate half of our team as 'shite' and MR has final sign-off on transfers, I'm surprised you don't hold Robins accountable for anything.

No, I agree. I wouldn't but that's kind of the point, in 2 ways.

One: If the new manager finishes mid table this season then next, if we find ourself in the bottom half, 12 games in. He won't have the fans backing him like Robins had, so this time next year we could be looking for another manager. I know I would be calling for them to be sacked, as we are now aware it's not good enough.

Two: He was Robins, of everything he's done, including turning the season around twice from being in a similar position and time of the season.

Totally understand that sentiment because I agree with it.

The club has changed immeasurably from the high point of 2022/23. From 2023/24 it’s a totally new team and new core and the old ‘tried and tested’ method might not have been working with this group of players. I've heard several reports of players actively disliking AV as a person and the nature of his departure sums it up.

If that is the case, and ITKs have mentioned things that could suggest that, then it becomes a possibility that MR is no longer the best person for the job.

My initial question wasn't why did they leave, it was why weren't they replaced?

They were replaced... We hired 4 new coaches for this season. It's not clear if Robins wanted to directly replace AV as an assistant manager or not rather than this new structure. All of this theorised that it's all the evil work of Dr Roberts which I don't think is likely given MR's strength or position at the club. I do recall pundits (maybe McSheffrey?) having concerns about MR's decision to not appoint a proper #2 to replace AV.

The better question would be, who decided on the new coaching structure. Was it pitched to MR and he went for it or was it a forced change. If we were going to hire a number 2 and backed out of it, suggest it may have been Robins' final decision after all. By that point, perhaps the form was that bad, King had got itchy feet and thought about the unthinkable.

If all these decisions were forced on MR with no final say or agency, he may as well have resigned at the start of the season and called out the owners. I just don't think he would've agreed to all this under duress because he doesn't strike me as a weak person.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

You have zero guarantee that it would turn around, unless you have a time machine and have been forward to check?

I would suggest that there was more chance than there is now, hence the desperation to lower expectations so that the people demanding Robins was fired can avoid looking hasty, or indeed just plain wrong.

 

[nunchuckas]

I hope someone asks him something along of the line of the implications we'll have going forward now he's exposed ourselves to the football world as another basket case club, with a lunatic owner who'll be remembered as the man who sacked Mark Robins.

There's bound to be ramifications on struggling to attract players/staff now he's done this. Who'll want to come here now with him as owner?

And even if the new manager is half decent, they're in an almost impossible situation. Anything less than a flying start and they'll be done for. It's insane not giving Robins the chance to turn it around like he has proven he always does. If it's the same scenario by Christmas, then sure, he'd just about get away with doing it then.

He's fucked us either way, lost the best and most proven manager to turn results around and given the new manager an almost impossible chance of succeeding.

At least Sisu never sacked Robins, and left him to it!

 

[torchomatic]

Very true, with arguably two of the best players in the division, do we have that in our arsenal now?

Of course not, but that's not the point. Teams do it, not just us. Doncaster did it last year.

The hysterical on here but banging on for weeks to get Robins out, now they are willing to let the new guy be potentially worse than the manager we already had. It's madness. Why would you settle for less? Why would you lower your expectations? Surely, we all want to finish as high in the table as we can? If that means getting rid of the current guy for a newer model, so be it, but the new guy has to deliver or it's been a pointless exercise.

 

[TomRad85]

You don’t have any facts at all to back up your position, hence all this talk of “emotion” to try and quieten things down. Look at Robins’ record, look at what actually happened in previous seasons.

if you can convince me that it’s fine to be lowering expectations to the degree we’re seeing on here, fair enough.

What’s actually happening here is that the people who were demanding Robins’ head now want to play down all expectations to avoid being “wrong” if the new guy doesn’t replicate what Robins showed over the length of pretty much every season. It’s actually very clear.

What facts, i watch football with my eyes, we were shit, Doug saw the same. Thats all you need to know really.

I don't really understand this lowering expectations stuff, i want us to be better than we have been, then we go from there. I wanted play offs at the start of the season but here we are near the bottom having pissed away home games and Derby, Wednesday, Swansea and co...

To suggest there is a double standard is strange when many taking the opposite stance reek of it. We were told no manager could do better as the players and/or the coaching staff are hopeless. So my question would be why do you expect us to do any better at all?

 

[Nick]

Of course not, but that's not the point. Teams do it, not just us. Doncaster did it last year.

The hysterical on here but banging on for weeks to get Robins out, now they are willing to let the new guy be potentially worse than the manager we already had. It's madness. Why would you settle for less? Why would you lower your expectations? Surely, we all want to finish as high in the table as we can? If that means getting rid of the current guy for a newer model, so be it, but the new guy has to deliver or it's been a pointless exercise.

Try reading what people are actually saying.

The expectations were lowered by the pathetic start to the season.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Of course not, but that's not the point. Teams do it, not just us. Doncaster did it last year.

The hysterical on here but banging on for weeks to get Robins out, now they are willing to let the new guy be potentially worse than the manager we already had. It's madness. Why would you settle for less? Why would you lower your expectations? Surely, we all want to finish as high in the table as we can? If that means getting rid of the current guy for a newer model, so be it, but the new guy has to deliver or it's been a pointless exercise.

There isn’t really any rational response to this apart from it makes sense, so you will probably be called emotional or a weirdo.

 

[skybluecam]

Of course not, but that's not the point. Teams do it, not just us. Doncaster did it last year.

The hysterical on here but banging on for weeks to get Robins out, now they are willing to let the new guy be potentially worse than the manager we already had. It's madness. Why would you settle for less? Why would you lower your expectations? Surely, we all want to finish as high in the table as we can? If that means getting rid of the current guy for a newer model, so be it, but the new guy has to deliver or it's been a pointless exercise.

The manager we had had us in 17th place. No one would settle for less than that.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Try reading what people are actually saying.

The expectations were lowered by the pathetic start to the season.

in some people, a very vocal minority, but by no means the majority.

 

[torchomatic]

Try reading what people are actually saying.

The expectations were lowered by the pathetic start to the season.

Fine. Lowered expectations it is.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I hope someone asks him something along of the line of the implications we'll have going forward now we've exposed ourselves to the football world as another basket case club, with a lunatic owner who'll be remembered as the man who sacked Mark Robins.

There's bound to be ramifications on struggling to sign players/staff now he's done this.

And even if the new manager is half decent, they're in an almost impossible situation. Anything less than a flying start and they'll be done for. It's insane not giving Robins the chance to turn it around like he has proven he always does. If it's the same scenario by Christmas, then sure, he'd just about get away with doing it then.

He's fucked us either way, lost the best and most proven manager to turn results around and given the new manager an almost impossible chance of succeeding.

At least Sisu never sacked Robins, and left him to it!

I mean, SISU never had £45m invested in the team and in the Championship, our budget was solidly bottom 3 until King took over. If it was your money on the line, you'd probably be a bit about tetchy about us being 17th after 15 games.

 

[TomRad85]

The hysterical on here but banging on for weeks to get Robins out, now they are willing to let the new guy be potentially worse than the manager we already had.

What do you mean let the new manager? Why do you care so much that some people disagree? Our opinions don't matter one jot.
If you don't like how the new manager is getting on start a thread where you can all talk about sacking him you headcase.

 

[SKYBLUES90]

"Can Oggy tell me how the keeper played today?"

That was honestly one of the strangest calls I’ve heard on CWR and there’s been a few!

Can never tell half the time if there a wind up. Haven’t heard Nick the brummie for a while, isn’t you is it?

 

[Nick]

in some people, a very vocal minority, but by no means the majority.

Behave, it's bullshit. Let's not pretend the poor start is acceptable or irrelevant.

 

[skybluecam]

On another point - 3 seasons in a row now we've had an absolutely honking start to the season.

22/23 we thought it was the pitch

23/24 we thought it was the squad rebuild

24/25 what's the excuse? The coaching structure conspiracy?

I think that has probably played a big a part as anything else in the sacking. Even if we recovered to a top 10 finish under Robins this season, what's the guarantee the exact same thing wouldn't happen next season?

 

[Nick]

Fine. Lowered expectations it is.

You still don't seem to grasp it.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

What we had was a manager proven to turn around poor starts. *Whether MR would’ve done so again will never be known.

Now, because of Doug’s decision (and the timing of it), what we’re left with is the complete unknown.

That’s why I and a lot of people around the club and outside believe Robins should’ve been given until Christmas.

Is that true, or did circumstances allow for us to improve over the course of a season?

If we look solely at our season(s) since back in the Championship.

20/21 - We started playing a lot better when Matty James came into the team.
21/22 - Actually played worse 2nd half of the season, compared to the 1st half.
22/23 - Momentum + having arguably two of the best players in the division (Vik and Gus), as well as a solid squad all round.
23/24 - Results improved after COH returned to the team, ironically results worsened when he dropped out.

Whilst I've no doubt Mark Robins did offer some elements that allowed our teams to get better in the second halves of the season, it's not as if this happens every season and there are also other contributing factors.

Difference being this year is there is no COH, no Vik, no Hamer and we aren't building any momentum.

 

[torchomatic]

The manager we had had us in 17th place. No one would settle for less than that.

Yes, 17th in November. So, you're not going to settle for finishing 17th or below? If we do you'll be calling for the new manager's head?

 

[Nick]

On another point - 3 seasons in a row now we've had an absolutely honking start to the season.

22/23 we thought it was the pitch

23/24 we thought it was the squad rebuild

24/25 what's the excuse? The coaching structure conspiracy?

I think that has probably played a big a part as anything else in the sacking. Even if we recovered to a top 10 finish under Robins this season, what's the guarantee the exact same thing wouldn't happen next season?

"Yeah but Mark always turns it around"

Didn't last year really but the excuse was "Fa cup run"

 

[Bigelvesy]

So would you have accepted it if we finished something like 12th and Robins was sacked in the summer?

It would make more sense, wouldn't have felt as disrespectful and if announced before the last home game of the season with the right statement, would have allowed the fans to say goodbye, which i think is a considerable part of the disgruntlement.

I personally, would have still kept Robins but i think thats because i desperately wanted it to be him that got us back to the PL, but if it was done in this way instead i could definitely wrap my head around it and understand the justification more.

 

[rob9872]

Ask how long the new manager gets and depending in his answer use it to trip him up either why didn't Robins get the same or how can expect instant success with the budget compared to parachute payments etc

 

[TomRad85]

Pete can you also ask Doug if his expectations of the new manager have been lowered after reading the forum?

 

[clint van damme]

Why is he an idiot? Everyone knows that our form for a long time has not been goods enough. Compare our record v top half teams in 2022/23 and 23/24, there's a massive drop off. This season, we can't even beat the teams we're supposed to - just look at the league positions of the teams we've lost to.

Given that you regularly slate half of our team as 'shite' and MR has final sign-off on transfers, I'm surprised you don't hold Robins accountable for anything.


Totally understand that sentiment because I agree with it.

The club has changed immeasurably from the high point of 2022/23. From 2023/24 it’s a totally new team and new core and the old ‘tried and tested’ method might not have been working with this group of players. I've heard several reports of players actively disliking AV as a person and the nature of his departure sums it up.

If that is the case, and ITKs have mentioned things that could suggest that, then it becomes a possibility that MR is no longer the best person for the job.



They were replaced... We hired 4 new coaches for this season. It's not clear if Robins wanted to directly replace AV as an assistant manager or not rather than this new structure. All of this theorised that it's all the evil work of Dr Roberts which I don't think is likely given MR's strength or position at the club. I do recall pundits (maybe McSheffrey?) having concerns about MR's decision to not appoint a proper #2 to replace AV.

The better question would be, who decided on the new coaching structure. Was it pitched to MR and he went for it or was it a forced change. If we were going to hire a number 2 and backed out of it, suggest it may have been Robins' final decision after all. By that point, perhaps the form was that bad, King had got itchy feet and thought about the unthinkable.

If all these decisions were forced on MR with no final say or agency, he may as well have resigned at the start of the season and called out the owners. I just don't think he would've agreed to all this under duress because he doesn't strike me as a weak person.

I don't think the coaches brought in were replacements.
Lawrence for example was a specialist defensive coach.
It appears that work is now been carried out by a goal keeping coach with a less than sparkling reputation.

I would love to get the answer to your question regarding the new coaching structure. And as I keep saying repeatedly, if it was introduced by Robins why are we insisting the new man sticks with it.

 

[torchomatic]

You still don't seem to grasp it.

No, I grasp it alright.

 

[skybluecam]

Yes, 17th in November. So, you're not going to settle for finishing 17th or below? If we do you'll be calling for the new manager's head?

If we finished anywhere near 17th the new guy should get the boot, yes.

Top half minimum, should be top 10.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Behave, it's bullshit. Let's not pretend the poor start is acceptable or irrelevant.

it’s not bullshit is it, the ones wanting him out were a very loud, ‘stamp our little feet’ style minority. Even a look on here should tell you that.