Supporters forum 6pm November 11th (1 Viewer)

[RoboCCFC90]

Of course not, but that's not the point. Teams do it, not just us. Doncaster did it last year.

The hysterical on here but banging on for weeks to get Robins out, now they are willing to let the new guy be potentially worse than the manager we already had. It's madness. Why would you settle for less? Why would you lower your expectations? Surely, we all want to finish as high in the table as we can? If that means getting rid of the current guy for a newer model, so be it, but the new guy has to deliver or it's been a pointless exercise.

Teams can just do it, but there is usually factor behind it, the reason I referenced Hamer and Gus is because that season there was two key factors behind us going on a run, but that's not guaranteed to happen.

The new manager, if it is Lampard will be tasked with the playoffs and that suits me just fine.

 

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[Darth Robins]

Pete can you also ask Doug if his expectations of the new manager have been lowered after reading the forum?

My expectations for the future of humanity have been lowered after reading this forum.

 

[torchomatic]

If we finished anywhere near 17th the new guy should get the boot, yes.

Top half minimum, should be top 10.

Even after a "third of the season" has gone? Fair enough.

 

[TomRad85]

My expectations for the future of humanity have been lowered after reading this forum.

All a bit of fun though isn't it.

 

[clint van damme]

I mean, SISU never had £45m invested in the team and in the Championship, our budget was solidly bottom 3 until King took over. If it was your money on the line, you'd probably be a bit about tetchy about us being 17th after 15 games.

The money spent on the team wasn't King's personal wealth though. He's said that himself.

Not sure it makes that much of a difference but I think it's worth clarifying.

 

[Bigelvesy]

"Yeah but Mark always turns it around"

Didn't last year really but the excuse was "Fa cup run"

9th! WE FINISHED 9th! Where the fuck has the audacity come from to claim that isnt a turn around?!
Is all of your anti robins rhetoric because your expectations of this club have been blown way way out of proportion?

We are play off challengers, absolutely nothing more. 9th is a respectable position for that.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Is that true, or did circumstances allow for us to improve over the course of a season?

If we look solely at our season(s) since back in the Championship.

20/21 - We started playing a lot better when Matty James came into the team.
21/22 - Actually played worse 2nd half of the season, compared to the 1st half.
22/23 - Momentum + having arguably two of the best players in the division (Vik and Gus), as well as a solid squad all round.
23/24 - Results improved after COH returned to the team, ironically results worsened when he dropped out.

Whilst I've no doubt Mark Robins did offer some elements that allowed our teams to get better in the second halves of the season, it's not as if this happens every season and there are also other contributing factors.

Difference being this year is there is no COH, no Vik, no Hamer and we aren't building any momentum.

ah here we go, not only does the new guy have much lower expectations on him, actually Robins wasn’t that good anyway when you dig into it

 

[mmttww]

Hiring a “name”

If it's Lampard and it doesn't work, I'd agree.

 

[skybluecam]

Even after a "third of the season" has gone? Fair enough.

That's about where we'd finish if we averaged playoff level ppg for the rest of the season.

I think that's what most reasonable people said on the expectations thread. Target this season was top 6, so the new guy should average that kind of form for the rest of the season.

 

[usskyblue]

There’s only three certainties in life;

Death, taxes and knowing it’s going to be a bloodbath on SBT whether the new manager head coach succeeds, fails or anywhere in between.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

On another point - 3 seasons in a row now we've had an absolutely honking start to the season.

22/23 we thought it was the pitch

23/24 we thought it was the squad rebuild

24/25 what's the excuse? The coaching structure conspiracy?

I think that has probably played a big a part as anything else in the sacking. Even if we recovered to a top 10 finish under Robins this season, what's the guarantee the exact same thing wouldn't happen next season?

Unless Robins was lying on the press releases, he was also actively involved in the recruitment process for all the coaches we hired. There's no reason to believe it was forced on him - why would he allow it?

If MR hired inexperienced coaches that needed to develop into the role, that was his call and needs to be accountable. The fact we went to hire a #2 goes to show that perhaps Robins recognised this failure.

Again, I would've doubled down and back MR, but you're quite right that these slow starts became the norm, not the exception - you can add both the promotion seasons of 2017/18 and 2019/20 to the list too. There were serious calls to sack Robins between Oct-Dec where we had a stinker of form.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

@Earlsdon-Loyal-Blue has just been spotted at a motorway services off the M6.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

9th! WE FINISHED 9th! Where the fuck has the audacity come from to claim that isnt a turn around?!
Is all of your anti robins rhetoric because your expectations of this club have been blown way way out of proportion?

We are play off challengers, absolutely nothing more. 9th is a respectable position for that.

He’s one of the ones who seems to have always had a weird dislike of him, going back years.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There’s only three certainties in life;

Death, taxes and knowing it’s going to be a bloodbath on SBT whether the new manager succeeds, fails or anywhere in between.

We have had a sizeable number say they expect a playoff finish as the bare minimum from a new appointment. Only expecting automatics form for the rest of the season otherwise they’ll call for him to be sacked too.

This Robins decision has properly messed people’s heads.

 

[skybluecam]

9th! WE FINISHED 9th! Where the fuck has the audacity come from to claim that isnt a turn around?!
Is all of your anti robins rhetoric because your expectations of this club have been blown way way out of proportion?

We are play off challengers, absolutely nothing more. 9th is a respectable position for that.

If you're being ruthless then 9th isn't good enough is it

 

[Nick]

it’s not bullshit is it, the ones wanting him out were a very loud, ‘stamp our little feet’ style minority. Even a look on here should tell you that.

Yes, to try and completely ignore the bad start is bullshit.

You would have a point if it was now June and the new Manager was just coming in.

Of course, Robins would have got us autos form for the rest of the season and put one in the top corner himself in the Playoff Final.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

There’s only three certainties in life;

Death, taxes and knowing it’s going to be a bloodbath on SBT whether the new manager succeeds, fails or anywhere in between.

well.. for me the aim has to be playoffs, top 10 is ok. Anything outside of that and my view is that there was no point. Apart from to deal with the kind of obvious personal stuff that was going on behind the scenes.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Yes, to try and completely ignore the bad start is bullshit.

find me someone who is trying to completely ignore it and I won’t have to pull you up for telling porkies again

 

[RoboCCFC90]

ah here we go, not only does the new guy have much lower expectations on him, actually Robins wasn’t that good anyway when you dig into it

Lower expectations? As I've said above, I want the new HC to target the playoffs.

Teams can just do it, but there is usually factor behind it, the reason I referenced Hamer and Gus is because that season there was two key factors behind us going on a run, but that's not guaranteed to happen.

The new manager, if it is Lampard will be tasked with the playoffs and that suits me just fine.

In terms of Robins not being "that good anyway" I simply said there were other factors which should be considered I don't think that's wrong.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I don't think the coaches brought in were replacements.
Lawrence for example was a specialist defensive coach.
It appears that work is now been carried out by a goal keeping coach with a less than sparkling reputation.

I would love to get the answer to your question regarding the new coaching structure. And as I keep saying repeatedly, if it was introduced by Robins why are we insisting the new man sticks with it.

Defence was Lawrence's speciality rather than being a specialist coach for defending, that's a slight difference. There wasn't enough coaches to stick to limited areas. You're quite right to point out that it's strange to see a GK coach working on defensive coaching. Again, if Robins hired these people, he's accountable here.

On the last point, it's pretty normal for a new manager to keep the existing coaching staff. It's usually the #2 and manager that come as a pair. Which, the likelihood seems to be that Lampard will be coming with his assistant, Jody Morris should we hire him. So the structure isn't being kept per se. Given that we nearly hired a #2 for Robins, it indicates that MR himself acknowledged the structure wasn't working. To me, suggests the coaching structure was signed off by Robins - unless he lied about his involvement in the hiring process.

 

[Nick]

9th! WE FINISHED 9th! Where the fuck has the audacity come from to claim that isnt a turn around?!
Is all of your anti robins rhetoric because your expectations of this club have been blown way way out of proportion?

We are play off challengers, absolutely nothing more. 9th is a respectable position for that.

Oh right, I might start being shit at my job on Monday and Tuesday but then when I am "respectable" by Friday it's acceptable. It's alright though, I always turn it around.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Lower expectations? As I've said above, I want the new HC to target the playoffs.

Well in that case we have different views on whether he should have been sacked, but I can respect your reasoning and I also respect your assessment of what the new HC should be looking to achieve. Fair enough

 

[Flying Fokker]

We have had a sizeable number say they expect a playoff finish as the bare minimum from a new appointment. Only expecting automatics form for the rest of the season otherwise they’ll call for him to be sacked too.

This Robins decision has properly messed people’s heads.

If we continue on our current form we are to be relegated. Fewer than 50 points. But we are a decent run away from the play-offs at the moment.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Oh right, I might start being shit at my job on Monday and Tuesday but then when I am "respectable" by Friday it's acceptable.

That’s actually a pretty awful example tbh, false equivalence at its finest

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

well.. for me the aim has to be playoffs, top 10 is ok. Anything outside of that and my view is that there was no point. Apart from to deal with the kind of obvious personal stuff that was going on behind the scenes.

Top 10 will still probably need playoff form for the rest of the season without slip ups. Is that a realistic minimum expectation?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Well in that case we have different views on whether he should have been sacked, but I can respect your reasoning and I also respect your assessment of what the new HC should be looking to achieve. Fair enough

I don't think you'll find many fans who will agree with me, but I'm fine with that.

 

[clint van damme]

Defence was Lawrence's speciality rather than being a specialist coach for defending, that's a slight difference. There wasn't enough coaches to stick to limited areas. You're quite right to point out that it's strange to see a GK coach working on defensive coaching. Again, if Robins hired these people, he's accountable here.

On the last point, it's pretty normal for a new manager to keep the existing coaching staff. It's usually the #2 and manager that come as a pair. Which, the likelihood seems to be that Lampard will be coming with his assistant, Jody Morris should we hire him. So the structure isn't being kept per se. Given that we nearly hired a #2 for Robins, it indicates that MR himself acknowledged the structure wasn't working. To me, suggests the coaching structure was signed off by Robins - unless he lied about his involvement in the hiring process.

I think you need to look at USskyblues posts regarding the no 2.
He suggests that Robins nearly hired Ramsey and the club pulled the plug.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The money spent on the team wasn't King's personal wealth though. He's said that himself.

Not sure it makes that much of a difference but I think it's worth clarifying.

Who owns CCFC and all its debts? It's King. He's invested one way or the other if he's loaning the club money to sustain itself - the loans aren't guaranteed.

A bad season this year could cost us a lot of money. We have Sheaf entering the final year of his contract, players like Wright, Simms, MVE whose values are decreased if we're underperforming, so even if it doesn't cost him personally, it impacts the value of the asset that is CCFC.

Relegation would be a disaster and we can cockily say we're too good to get sucked into it, but I'm sure that's how B'ham fans felt last year.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Top 10 will still probably need playoff form for the rest of the season without slip ups. Is that a realistic minimum expectation?

Yes. It’s what we rightly would have expected from Robins, and we are apparently moving forward now, so yes.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If we continue on our current form we are to be relegated. Fewer than 50 points. But we are a decent run away from the play-offs at the moment.

The question really is what sort of PPG can a new manager get compared to Robins over the remaining fixtures.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I don't think you'll find many fans who will agree with me, but I'm fine with that.

you are a rare breed, someone that can back it up and have a realistic view of what happens now and what should happen now. All good for me.

 

[Bigelvesy]

If you're being ruthless then 9th isn't good enough is it

Im not being ruthless, im being realistic.

We have only been back in the championship for 4 seasons, this being the 5th. We came back from league 2, not down from the Prem so we didnt get a literaly sh*t ton of parachute payment money to spend. We have to build and progress, find some gems (like Gyok and Hamer) sell and reinvest, build and progress.

We have no recency in the premier league, before the play off season we were a complete unknown quantity in the championship and only considered contenders last year because of the year before performance. 9th and an FA Cup Semi is a completely respectable and legitimate finish.
If King was serious about play offs last year, then he shouldnt have requested a Cup run and allowed for absolutely all resources to be directed towards it.

Our stature the championship is in the mix with atleast 10 other clubs to challenge for the 4 play off positions. Thats who we are right now. The absolute entitlement to be demanding something more than that, when we have not invested the funds over MULTIPLE years to build a complete squad is absolute madness. We dont have the strength in depth of nearly all of the other clubs we're competing with.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes. It’s what we rightly would have expected from Robins, and we are apparently moving forward now, so yes.

It’s what I expected before the Stoke game, true.

 

[Bigelvesy]

Oh right, I might start being shit at my job on Monday and Tuesday but then when I am "respectable" by Friday it's acceptable. It's alright though, I always turn it around.

The amount of time you spend on here id imagine you are already

 

[SkyB]

I worry that with Doug's forum today we will learn very little if people don't actually think about what they want to know. Sure we'd all like to know what the trigger was for Robins to go but we don't need 6 different supports clubs asking variations of it.

We need to know information that will give us insight in to what we'll do moving forward... What characteristic will a new manager bring that Robins didn't posses? Is there a plan in place to stop us being one of these aimless merry-go-rounds like Watford? Is there likely to be recruitment in January? Why don't we have any loan players? What's the plan to take us to that next level once we're in the prem and not just be a yo-yo?