We'll wait and seebut I know which one I believe.
Santa clause or the tooth fairy?
Chaps hearing the ricoh deal is done.. (33 Viewers)
- Thread starter wal3590
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Santa clause or the tooth fairy?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Stupid question. Both exist!
CJparker
New Member
Why, because I'm not a SISU rent boy like you?
In a way you are correct, insofar as I won't support the club's dubious tactics in trying to mitigate losses brought about by its own failures - that will come out of the taxpayer's pocket. In reality, it's up to SISU to live up to their obligations and bankroll CCFC. If not, they should just fuck off out of our club.
All this is about trying to improve SISU's own position in regards to the ownership, ultimately so they can reduce their losses and/or sell up profitably - I very much doubt that it will mean that we see more investment on the playing side. If the rent reduction meant that as a direct result we would sign McG, I might change my mind, but don't hold your breath.
CJparker
New Member
They have been ridiculously generous, probably the only reason for this is that they know that as soon as CCFC leaves, they are in a critical financial situation. Reducing the rent for them must be the lesser of two evils - SISU have them over a barrel (even if it's hard so see exactly where we'd go).
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Not a SISU rent boy, but definitely a rent boy for ACL.
How many CCFC games do you go to?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
They have been "ridiculously generous" because they are/were being ridiculously unreasonable!
coundonskyblue
New Member
Hope a deal is done. But I dont really see how anyone can criticise ACL when they have offered a 67% reduction + income streams.
CJparker
New Member
Not that is has any bearing, but I've been to 9 this season and 15 last season. I live in London and can't afford to go every week.
Rent boy for ACL...you mean, "someone who is more interested in the financial wellbeing of a public sector venture than in reducing the losses of a millionaire Mayfair hedge fund"
I know I am coming across as quite contrary here, but you all have to take off the sky blue specs and see that just because something is allegedly good for CCFC (actually good for SISU, doubt CCFC's interests have factored really) doesn't make it right or supportable.
I'm not against a lower rent per se, but the tactics have been appalling. Not paying rent for 10 months is stealing - pure and simple (the money should be generating interest in ACL's bank account). Just because I am interested in more than an advantage for the City, doesn't mean am a Villa fan FFS.
So far I haven;t heard a single convincing rebuttal of anything I've written, just spurious claims and insults. I've worked in business mate and have dealt with hard nosed bastards - the only way to deal with them is to face them down and fight fire with fire. If I was ACL I would not have comprimised one iota and would now be pushing a winding up petition through Joy's door.
CJparker
New Member
I don't see any evidence at all to support this assertion. As Coundon points out, how is it reasonable of CCFC/SISU to turn down a two thirds reduction in rent plus other add-ons?
woody11462
Well-Known Member
They have a right to try and negotiate. And it appears that ACL are willing to do this for the sake of the club, regardless who is in charge. If they felt that the current rent agreement was both fair and proportionate, I'm sure they would be telling SISU where to go!
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I'm not criticising that, no.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
But still charging way above market value, that to me is unreasonable. There was a thread dedicated to unreasonable people charging above face value for CCFC v Spurs tickets, yet some of those would defend ACL :facepalm:
CJparker
New Member
SBT, you seem like a nice lad but I think you are buying into the SISU spin too much. When you sit your exams (especially if you go on to do a degree) you will be expected to challenge assertions and use the facts to construct your own arguments, using logic rather than hearsay.
There is no evidence that even the reduced amount is unreasonable - just TF/SISU assertions that it is. The main question from ACL's point of view is, "why should Coventry pay the same as Oldham (random example) when the ground and support base is Premier standard?
I'm not against a rent reduction as such but I am against non-payment as a tactic. IT IS STEALING. And it's all to reduce SISU's own outgoings, there's no evidence to suggest that the club itself will benefit significantly in terms of on-field investment.
CJparker
New Member
But they haven't got a right to withhold the rent as a negotiating tactic. That's my biggest problem with all of this. They have walked all over ACL and people oin ehre stil lsupprt of them. It's outrageous.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Protecting interests of public sector, well, their interests would be to ensure well being of CCFC, and our rent certainly does not ensure that.
Energy suppliers thieve off your ordinary person, banks, thieve of ordinary people, capitalist society allows corporations to take the piss, it isn't just SISU, unfortunately.
You know what, I don't know if I'm alone here, but who cares, I really don't take you seriously and there's been few comments that I see that I want to rebut, but then I think, it isn't worth it as your line of thought and your arguments are flawed.
CJparker
New Member
Yes you are because you still think the revised offer is "unreasonable"
CJparker
New Member
Right, so do you support banks / energy companies etc when the act in a immoral way? if not, they you are blinded by your Sky Blue loyalties in this case.
Also you say you can't be bothered to rebut any of my comments but described my arguments as flawed - good luck in your exams if that's your approach to making an argument.
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
He has done his exams and got good results. Shows why this country is going to pot.
cloughie
Well-Known Member
Obviously he does, yet describes himself as a socialist, just likes to pick out the bits thats fit
Socialism is a great ideal, I agree, yet truely unworkable due to it's okay until it effects 'me' ie sbt
There will always be some more equal than others ask the majority of the people of China Previous members of the Soviet union and Eastern Germany
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We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
Not really harsh. This young man aside, the state of education in this country is apalling. Is it even possible to fail exams anymore. Nicholas Chamberlain has a 99% c or above this year. Half the kids in Bedworth cant tie their shoe laces, let alone pass exams of the difficulty of those that were taken ten years ago.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
It's nice to receive compliments, so thanks. I'm patriotic in the sense I'm a proud CCFC supporter and I want what's best for SISU. It could be suggest SISU will benefit more than CCFC, but there isn't substantial evidence as with same accusation of 'asset stripping' on SISU's behalf. Why do I think this? Because none of our players are worth that much nor is the reduction of rent enough to cut their losses.
Well there is evidence, we can't afford to run our club and rent, whilst isn't the be all and end all, it certainly doesn't help!!! I'll touch on more evidence later down.
As a club, we have decent support, and that's probably generous tbh.
It isn't stealing as such, it's wrong and immoral, I'll give you that, but we're refusing to pay because we can't afford to pay (or before it goes that way!) but using the landlord/tenant analogy, if I can't afford to live in a house, I move to a house in my price range, it's not that simple in this relationship, is it? Why? Lose-lose for every party involved. I don't know what you think of Hoffman, but his group (if they still exist) were in favour of the notion that our rent is too high and Kay's admitted we'd move from the RICOH if ACL didn't lower the price, so 2 parties believe rent is too high, and are considering moving from the RICOH, this is also evidence that rent is too high. Also, remember that Hoffman has been painted as some saint so if he agrees with the anti Christ that is SISU, then wouldn't that mean something?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I don't no, nor do I particularly support SISU, however, I want what's best for the club in the context of the situation.
This forum isn't one big exam, although there're some harsh markers here
I can't say in an exam, ah sod that question. Funny you say that, I've just brought a book from a historian I completely disagree with, but I took his arguments, and evaluated and said why he was wrong using historians I think are right.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Is that the same for you then? Because if you're 22 (as someone said, I don't know if true) then you'd have still been in GCSE years when I was in yr 7. :facepalm:
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I hope an agreement has been made.
However I hope it is one that does not jeopardise ACL as a business.
From what I have seen of them, they have behaved with nothing but dignity and professionalism.
I assume in the future SISU will want to do business with either them or the council.
If they have reached an agreement, it will be interesting to see how that affects things in the future.
However I hope it is one that does not jeopardise ACL as a business.
From what I have seen of them, they have behaved with nothing but dignity and professionalism.
I assume in the future SISU will want to do business with either them or the council.
If they have reached an agreement, it will be interesting to see how that affects things in the future.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
I don't no, nor do I particularly support SISU, however, I want what's best for the club in the context of the situation.
This forum isn't one big exam, although there're some harsh markers here
Who was the historian And why was he wrong?
No more than 100 words please.
Houchens Head
Fairly well known member from Malvern
Nothing suspicious about that at all!
If you type ACL instead of ALC, then you won't get ALDI on your auto-thingy!
1. SISU know they have ACL by the balls.
2. ACL need CCFC at a high rent to be able to return a profit.
3. SISU said they had funds to bankroll the 2012/13 season.
4. SISU promised a bounce back budget.
5. It needs sorting but the old rent needs to be paid, even through a payment plan as a matter of principal.
What is promotion worth? Surely the £300-£400k for McGoldrick would have improved our chances. Without him, our season is over.
I agree with CJParker on his outlook.
2. ACL need CCFC at a high rent to be able to return a profit.
3. SISU said they had funds to bankroll the 2012/13 season.
4. SISU promised a bounce back budget.
5. It needs sorting but the old rent needs to be paid, even through a payment plan as a matter of principal.
What is promotion worth? Surely the £300-£400k for McGoldrick would have improved our chances. Without him, our season is over.
I agree with CJParker on his outlook.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's right and with all due respect, who are you to make assumptions of what I believe in?
I am concerned with the extortionate rates energy companies charge their customers, making record profits in correlation with increase in energy poverty, it's disgusting. I also hate insurance companies and banks, they thieve off ordinary people.
I can only make a judgement in the context of the situation, and that situation is in a capitalist society where corporations get away with everything, I've come to the conclusion that one corporation is ripping off another and the other is fighting back, in a wrong way, I give you that, to get a fair deal. Also, you have to set aside your beliefs when assessing the situation, which I have done.
Off topic, but replying to what you said. The problem with them countries, there was a 'state', and they used Stalinist tactics to maintain power (which were autocratic, not communist) and if Socialism was to be used, Trotskyist methods ought to tried out, as he is the only communist to not have a tainted reputation (although some evidence may rebut this e.g. Kronstadt). Also, may I add, the countries in the 'Eastern Bloc' weren't founded as a result of popular support from the people, they were made because the 'Red Army' swept through Europe and the deal at Yelta was that the Russia would move out of those countries so long as they establish 'communist' governments and were merely 'satellite states'. So you can't judge them as countries as 'communist'.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Richard Pipes.
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
If I am only 22 why am I talking about the diffculty of exams ten years ago? Its not your fault, its the education system to blame. We just aint Germany are we!
CJparker
New Member
You might be getting closer to common sense here, but I would make the following points:
1) I've never accused SISU of asset stripping - anyone who says such a thing is an idiot. They have not taken money out of the club BUT they have hindered our chances by not investing more and selling key players to cover our losses.
2) What's best for SISU and what's best for CCFC may not be the same thing. In the case of the rent, the interests of both parties are aligned, but look what happened last season when the club needed investment and SISU didn't want to cough up. I don't want what;s best for SISU - I want a stable, well-funded football club.
3) When you consider that had the £1m (or however much is now unpaid) should be generating interest in ACL's bank account, and probably won't be re-paid, it is stelaing?
4) Why is your desire to see the best for CCFC strong enough to overcome your noted objections that SISU's behaviour has been "wrong and immoral"?
5) Clearly any potential owners, e.g. Hoffman, would want to re-negotiate the rent before purchasing the club - this is what prospective tenants do. There is a whole world between this and deciding you don't want to pay any more and simply stopping paying.
6) Anyone who paints Hoffman as a saint and SISU as the anti-Christ is a fool. It's a more complicated picture than that, and there is no evidence that Hoffman would be able to do a better job than SISU, Richardson, Robinson etc.