Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
It doesn’t. Saying it’s your right to interfere in elections when you are the head of state however, does.
Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (19 Viewers)
- Thread starter tisza
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
“It isn’t happening”
“It is happening but barely at all”
I believe the next gambit is “it’s happening and it’s good that it’s happening”.
The number of people cheating isn’t the point as much as the cheating happening at all. It’s the same with the boat crossings. It’s the feeling someone is gaming the system and being allowed to that pisses people off.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Provide the evidence that it is then, it shouldn’t be difficult. For the record, trans athletes ranked bottom of the list of priorities for US voters.
The Trump campaign however was obsessed with it. Which now seemingly extends to inventing stances of the losing side because Daddy Trump told some lies about it.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The irony is that Bill Maher is exactly the type of sneering media personality you’re supposed to hate. I guess when he says whatever supports the team you’re on that goes away.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
That’s well articulated. Yes.
tisza
Well-Known Member
Can take that to other broader areas as well. You've got Democrat talking heads blaming the election on racism, sexism or working people and those without a college education not being smart enough to "vote properly".
.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
You replied in about 2 mins. The video posted is 8 mins long. Maybe look at what others are saying before throwing hissy comments down? In this case, it’s a left leaning media figure.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Has it not occurred to you that maybe I've already seen the clip?
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
If you have, then you are exactly the type of person he is alluding to.
Aren’t you?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
No. And more to the point, he isn't alluding to Kamala Harris either, who didn't campaign based on her race or gender but tried to make it about the issues the polling showed were more important. Trump's campaign ads focused heavily on trans athletes despite it being the issue voters cared least about.
I wanted Bernie Sanders to win the nomination in 2016 and 2020 and still agree most with his views when it comes to the US. I mean if I were an American I wouldn't be focusing on calling people racist or sexist but arguing for universal healthcare, a higher minimum wage and better workers' rights.
Guess this is the problem when you project views onto other people like Bill Maher does. Easy to make fun of silly people on university campuses, a bit harder when you go issue by issue on the things he says are important. On those issues, the progressive stance is virtually always the more popular one.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
“he isn't alluding to Kamala Harris either, who didn't campaign based on her race or gender but tried to make it about the issues the polling showed were more important.”
Their campaign focussed on calling Trump a racist and that he was taking away women’s rights. Race
Gender To close, I refer back to my opening remarks that the Dem’s got their campaign wrong, to you ridiculing that, and now you saying that the Dem’s should have campaigned in on different issues (ie, their campaign was wrong as too their candidate).
Bless your heart.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
I can’t get the image of a car crash out of my mind for reason.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
He did take away women's rights. He did repeat racist lies about immigrants eating animals. Calling them out doesn't make identity politics the focus of her campaign. What is the alternative, just let someone tell brazen lies when the country is watching?“he isn't alluding to Kamala Harris either, who didn't campaign based on her race or gender but tried to make it about the issues the polling showed were more important.”
Their campaign focussed on calling Trump a racist and that he was taking away women’s rights. Race
To close, I refer back to my opening remarks that the Dem’s got their campaign wrong, to you ridiculing that, and now you saying that the Dem’s should have campaigned in on different issues (ie, their campaign was wrong as too their candidate).
Bless your heart.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I mean this is a guy whose business exports to the US and he's up the arse of someone who wants to put tariffs on any import he can.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
There are already import duties in place from and to the US / UK. Unless you have a free trade agreement, then this is common practice.
Rates change. The EU used to dictate the UK rates. Trump wanted a free trade agreement with the UK but Brexit negotiations impacted talks.
Go and read a book rather than shout at the shadows in the corner. Go outside. Get some fresh air.
I’m off to watch my lad play Ampleforth college at rugby.
Toodles.
Otis
Well-Known Member
Como
Well-Known Member
No one remembers Obama's input about Race and Sex?
What else did they have, well apart from the usual Rubbish, Deplorable, Fascists, Nazis, Misogynists, Transphobes etc etc.
My money is rinse and repeat. Yes a few have a clue but seems they are in a minority.
It seems even Nancy is regretting the knife in the back on Old Joe, seems she knew going with KK was a mistake of epic proportions. I personally believe Joe is delighted, now we are unlikely to ever know for certain.
What else did they have, well apart from the usual Rubbish, Deplorable, Fascists, Nazis, Misogynists, Transphobes etc etc.
My money is rinse and repeat. Yes a few have a clue but seems they are in a minority.
It seems even Nancy is regretting the knife in the back on Old Joe, seems she knew going with KK was a mistake of epic proportions. I personally believe Joe is delighted, now we are unlikely to ever know for certain.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
It seems to be that now the trend is to tell the other side what they ran on even though they didn’t. We could go issue by issue on the policy focuses of each candidate but it would be a waste of time.
It has been decided that she ran on trans athletes and wokeness so there is no changing minds on that. We could look at the Trump rallies that focused on election denialism, lies about immigrants, racist jokes about black people and Latinos, and of course declaring every Democrat to be a scumbag.
Because that actually has been the Trump tactic all along: to accuse the other side of things he actually does. And he gets away with it courtesy of the personality cult he’s successfully created.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
Again, youre so far wide of the mark.
Trump was actually very clear and consistent with his campaign message, which is why it had such enormous appeal:
Stop illegal immigration to protect your jobs.
Reduce inflation so that you can afford to live.
Bring manufacturing back to US.
Energy self sufficiency.
American citizens first.
Tackle corruption and waste in DC.
End overseas wars and save US taxpayer dollars.
It was a hugely positive agenda and hit the right note with voters from a wide demographic range. It's easy to see why it resulted in such a landslide victory.
83 people died in Samoa as a result of his anti vax stance.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
‘Morning.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
You forget to add ‘concepts of a healthcare plan’. It would be a waste of time debunking this nonsense-minds are already made up.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
he should build a wall, he can get Mexico to pay for it
in reality things aren't as easy as making a bullet point wish list. For example he's promising to lower inflation, yet at the same time he wants manufacturing in the US and huge changes to the US diet. That's two policies that will see prices soar so how will that be done without impacting inflation?
A US made iPhone for example would more than double the price.
Promise energy self sufficiency yet return to fossil fuels which have a finite supply and halt progress on renewables, how are those things compatible?
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Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Someone else’s problemhe should build a wall, he can get Mexico to pay for it
in reality things aren't as easy as making a bullet point wish list. For example he's promising to lower inflation, yet at the same time he wants manufacturing in the US and huge changes to the US. That's two policies that will see prices soar so how will that be done without impacting inflation?
A US made iPhone for example would more than double the price.
Promise energy self sufficiency yet return to fossil fuels which have a finite supply and halt progress on renewables, how are those things compatible?
Further to Bill Mayers assessment, this is probably the best article I’ve seen on the subject
Trump broke the Democrats’ thermostat
The American left was sent spinning in 2016 and is yet to recalibrate
There is a section of the left that just don’t get it or want to accept the reality, hence the Trump/Republican sweep
These aren’t people on the right giving the Democrats a kicking these are historically liberal/left people asking for a bit of self reflection and change within the party.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Further to Bill Mayers assessment, this is probably the best article I’ve seen on the subject
Trump broke the Democrats’ thermostat
The American left was sent spinning in 2016 and is yet to recalibratewww.ft.com
There is a section of the left that just don’t get it or want to accept the reality, hence the Trump/Republican sweep
These aren’t people on the right giving the Democrats a kicking these are historically liberal/left people asking for a bit of self reflection and change within the party.
To be fair, and I have my own issue with The Left
, after an election defeat everyone comes out jockeying for their ideology to be the reason for the defeat. I’m not seeing much that beats “people felt poorer” as an explanation on a macro level.To be fair, and I have my own issue with The Left
Agreed. I’ve said before that inflation is what’s seen plenty of incumbents voted out over the past 2-3 years. The next question is how has a country that ran a $1.75trn - $2trn pa federal deficit, whilst delivering outsized gdp growth (compared to most other countries) seen citizens get/feel poorer and have any of their policies contributed to this
The article is worth a read though as it indicates how many moderates/general population now see the party and highlights how the democrats are losing some of their core voter groups. Unless this is addressed Id imagine the republicans will win next time as well
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Simpler than that, ‘vibes’. How else can a man who oversees the loss of manufacturing jobs convince people he will bring them back instead of the party that actually did create them? How can a man who still declares he was right to interfere in the 2020 election convince people he is the man to protect democracy? How can you have the richest man on the planet attempt to bribe voters while convincing people you’re the anti corruption candidate?To be fair, and I have my own issue with The Left
And last of all, how can a man who saw illegal immigration rise under his tenure convince people he will make it disappear? Then you branch out and see arguments made against calling out racist lies or attacks on women’s rights as ‘woke’. So you either allow the lies and attacks to go unchallenged or be called a ‘wokie’.
Under these circumstances no Democrat could have won and it might just take Trump to obliterate the country for people to see him for the con man he’s always been.
Can’t argue with some of your points but its still worth reading the FT article and listening to the Mayer monologue.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
The left need to get a dose of pragmatism:To be fair, and I have my own issue with The Left
Voted to leave the EU because it promoted equal opportunity immigration and brought democracy closer to the people?
Left: “you are thick and voted because of a sign on a bus and are racist”
Vote Trump because he will probably have less wars = less death = less US spending = less tax = more money in pocket and the border situation needs tightening. Plus, I’m unsure about RFK but I do know that some food additives that we have are banned in Europe so that needs looking at maybe.
Left: “OMG the planet is going to burn, women can’t choose their medical care, rampant inflation, no food, vaccines banned and you are a racist, sexist thicko. Oh, and Voter ID shouldn’t be necessary because black people aren’t clever enough to get FREE ID, but I’m not prejudiced (the irony)”
Also the left:
“If you don’t agree with me you are stupid, because I read a Guardian article once and also you just be racist. And homophobic. And racist.”
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
Getting a leftist to have the pragmatism to see another viewpoint?
Rare.
When they do, the remaining on the left don’t like it.
For example:
Everyone on this photo used to be a Democrat supporter.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
My answer to those arguments would have been to nominate Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020. The American left has not been represented in the last 3 cycles but in this current one, Biden had still done far better than Trump on the metrics Bill Maher and others claim to be most important.
What has really been rejected in these elections has been tweak around the edges centrism. Trump in 2016 argued against foreign wars, for single payer healthcare(!), protecting jobs etc etc. Hillary really did just run on her identity and appeared entitled and in support of the status quo. I could see very clearly how he had a route to winning that time.
Nancy Pelosi has blamed Biden for not standing down, but the truth is a centrist would most likely still have been nominated anyway with a similar result. A Tim Walz style progressive with a record in government should be the next nominee in my view, with a platform centred around universal healthcare.