Weight and working out (5 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

I love your trust in medical 'science' based on little or no research.

Severe side effects of GLP-1 drugs (e.g., Ozempic) sourced from 16 million patient’s medical records found that the drugs were strongly linked to a variety of side effects that frequently required hospitalization. Specifically, when compared to another weight loss combination not typically associated with these effects, GLP-1 users were found to have:

• 9.09 times greater risk of pancreatitis
• 4.22 times greater risk of bowel obstruction
• 3.67 times greater risk of gastroparesis (which means you can barely eat because the stomach is constantly full—and in many cases after Ozempic, ends up being permanent)
• 1.48 times greater risk of biliary disease (e.g., painful gallstones)

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2810542

Adverse events acknowledged within a trial sponsored by Ozempic’s manufacturer:
Table 3 Adverse events

In addition to lawsuits being filed against Ozempic for gastrointestinal disorders such as gastroparesis, lawsuits are also emerging for other severe conditions such as vision loss. Likewise, evidence is now emerging linking Ozempic to an increased risk of suicidal ideation (e.g., a 45% increase has been observed). Animal experiments are showing it distorts the architecture of the small intestine (which can lead to poor nutrient absorption or chronic intestinal obstructions), and many of the GLP-1 drug labels state the drugs may be linked to thyroid cancer.

So good luck with your health and weight loss efforts but don't say you never knew there could be bad side effects of using semaglutide/ozempic.

Aren't some of those issues not potential consequences of long term obesity?

 

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[chiefdave]

Aren't some of those issues not potential consequences of long term obesity?

Obesity leads to significantly increased risk of pancreatitis, gastroparesis and gallstones alongside many other things.

Obesity itself is not really considered a significant issue for bowel obstruction however any obese person losing significant weight is at increased risk no matter what the method of weightloss is.

If you're stating that as a reason not to use these treatments you're essentially saying to people they should remain obese as there is risk associated with losing weight. Of course any medical professional would tell you that's absolute nonsense and the benefits far override the risk.

 

[Captain Dart]

Do you think people don't research things or look into the risk before signing up? You may be shocked to learn that you're not the only person in the world that knows how to google.

The people the NHS, some of whom were featured on the program I'm guessing you haven't watched, recommend these drugs for have multiple life long medical conditions caused by their weight so even if all those things you say are correct you have to balance them against the benefits.

No drug is risk free. But if we took the approach that nothing with any potential for side effects should be considered we'd basically have no treatment for anything.

Out of interest do you think diabetics should cease their treatment or is it only people using semaglutide for weight loss you have an issue with?

I am not a Doctor so why would I advise any medical treatment, I do my own research out of curiosity and self interest.

There you go making assumptions about my Googling everything, you should read the recent book by Gary Taubes on Diabetes, it's very comprehensive and there is the older work by Dr Bernstein that relates his life work on diabetes.

 

[Captain Dart]

Obesity leads to significantly increased risk of pancreatitis, gastroparesis and gallstones alongside many other things.

Obesity itself is not really considered a significant issue for bowel obstruction however any obese person losing significant weight is at increased risk no matter what the method of weightloss is.

If you're stating that as a reason not to use these treatments you're essentially saying to people they should remain obese as there is risk associated with losing weight. Of course any medical professional would tell you that's absolute nonsense and the benefits far override the risk.

The study of 16 million patients I quoted was a comparison of Ozempic users with other weight loss treatments from US records, all subjects had an obesity code in the 90 days prior or up to 30 days after entry to the study. So the study was trying to eliminate that as a factor, it wasn't comparing normal or low weight patients with the overweight, everyone was overweight and the drug increased their already raised risks it seems.

 

[chiefdave]

I am not a Doctor so why would I advise any medical treatment, I do my own research out of curiosity and self interest.

There you go making assumptions about my Googling everything, you should read the recent book by Gary Taubes on Diabetes, it's very comprehensive and there is the older work by Dr Bernstein that relates his life work on diabetes.

Not read that one by Taubes, I'll add it to the list. Hopefully it stands up to more scrutiny than his previous books I've read.

 

[shmmeee]

Is that your best response, no data, no facts just a nonsensical critique of style. Rather poor.

Nothing to do with style. You don’t trust medical experts whose job it is to analyse the evidence, but think you can cherry pick the evidence to disprove it.

You’re just like every weird anti science nut. See your anti vax stuff. It’s all the same mistakes every time.

 

[shmmeee]

“I do my own research”

Ahahahahahahaha

Oh man, has to be a parody. Nobody is this on the nose of their stereotype.

 

[Captain Dart]

Nothing to do with style. You don’t trust medical experts whose job it is to analyse the evidence, but think you can cherry pick the evidence to disprove it.

You’re just like every weird anti science nut. See your anti vax stuff. It’s all the same mistakes every time.

LOL, do you actually think companies trying to sell you drugs are 100% honest and ethical, that's so naive.

 

[shmmeee]

LOL, do you actually think companies trying to sell you drugs are 100% honest and ethical, that's so naive.

Not as naive as thinking you can out research professional researchers from your toilet. Or that drug companies decide what drugs are used in this country.

The great irony about people like you is that without all the science you deny you wouldn’t be able to sit on your toilet scrolling YouTube and calling it doing your own research.

What other areas do you do this? Do you do your own surgery as well or trust the professionals there?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Obesity leads to significantly increased risk of pancreatitis, gastroparesis and gallstones alongside many other things.

Obesity itself is not really considered a significant issue for bowel obstruction however any obese person losing significant weight is at increased risk no matter what the method of weightloss is.

If you're stating that as a reason not to use these treatments you're essentially saying to people they should remain obese as there is risk associated with losing weight. Of course any medical professional would tell you that's absolute nonsense and the benefits far override the risk.

Yeah but can you trust the medical professional over captain dart and his x friends

 

[Captain Dart]

Not as naive as thinking you can out research professional researchers from your toilet. Or that drug companies decide what drugs are used in this country.

The great irony about people like you is that without all the science you deny you wouldn’t be able to sit on your toilet scrolling YouTube and calling it doing your own research.

What other areas do you do this? Do you do your own surgery as well or trust the professionals there?

My god you've gone rapidly to claiming I am into to all sorts of ludicrous practices and beliefs whilst implying I've got poor mental health that results in strange behaviour even though you've never met me and know nothing about me (and I hope it stays that way).

Go ahead and do things your way I'm sure you're 100% correct, your health is perfect in every way and if it isn't you can totally trust the experts you consult to advise you.

 

[Captain Dart]

Whoops.

Hundreds in hospital with serious reactions to fat jabs

New data obtained has found cases soared over the four weeks to the end of November, with an extra 118 hospitalisations recorded by the MHRA - a rise described by senior doctors as 'alarming'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[fernandopartridge]

Whoops.

Hundreds in hospital with serious reactions to fat jabs

New data obtained has found cases soared over the four weeks to the end of November, with an extra 118 hospitalisations recorded by the MHRA - a rise described by senior doctors as 'alarming'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

400 people in a million?

 

[Captain Dart]

400 people in a million?

Tip of the iceberg, that's only the serious cases requiring hospitalisation so far.

 

[chiefdave]

Whoops.

Hundreds in hospital with serious reactions to fat jabs

New data obtained has found cases soared over the four weeks to the end of November, with an extra 118 hospitalisations recorded by the MHRA - a rise described by senior doctors as 'alarming'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Does it not strike you that there's something odd about the figures when its gone from 279 over a period of 6 years to 118 in 4 weeks?

The article itself says "experts believe a significant proportion will be patients buying the injections from online pharmacies and taking them without oversight from a doctor", looking at the pictures of those who have had complications that accompany the article there is not a chance they have been screened to ensure they are eligible; and people being hospitalised with hypoglycaemic shock "after using ‘fake’ weight loss drugs they bought online".

Not sure this is the smoking gun you're looking for. If anything it would support the drug been more widely available via medical professional who can provide the appropriate support and supervision.

 

[chiefdave]

Some very interesting stuff in this study.

Mapping the effectiveness and risks of GLP-1 receptor agonists - Nature Medicine

An atlas of the associations between the use of GLP-1 receptor agonists (GLP-1RAs) and 175 health outcomes reports the effectiveness and risks of GLP-1RAs compared with other antihyperglycemic medications, such as sulfonylureas, DPP4 inhibitors and SGLT2 inhibitors.

www.nature.com

 

[robbiekeane]

It really upsets people that these moral failures might be able to fix things with a simple chemical balance change. They must be punished for their misdeeds

i don’t think that’s true. i think some overweight people are desperate for their to be a magic wand cure when the reality is they just need to put in lots of hard work, change their lifestyle, and control their impulses. I think those same people are getting angry with people questioning this unicorn drug…wonder why

 

[robbiekeane]

Would like to lose the stomach fat but to be honest it feels pretty demoralising to work this hard to then seemingly be punished for eating what seems sensible.

you got these mate. if in doubt zoom out. Don’t be too hard on yourself it’s unrealistic to think it’ll be completely linear. Could be time to mix up your routine? At the end of the days it’s calories in vs calories out but the path you take to get there can vary as you know. I’ve been doing a combination of intermittent fasting and a kind of keto based diet recently, with some relaxation on sundays. Working well so far

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

i don’t think that’s true. i think some overweight people are desperate for their to be a magic wand cure when the reality is they just need to put in lots of hard work, change their lifestyle, and control their impulses. I think those same people are getting angry with people questioning this unicorn drug…wonder why

Clearly someone who’s never had a problem
So unbelievably patronising to people who struggle

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

you got these mate. if in doubt zoom out. Don’t be too hard on yourself it’s unrealistic to think it’ll be completely linear. Could be time to mix up your routine? At the end of the days it’s calories in vs calories out but the path you take to get there can vary as you know. I’ve been doing a combination of intermittent fasting and a kind of keto based diet recently, with some relaxation on sundays. Working well so far

Currently close to 16 st which makes me feel it’s all pretty pointless.

 

[shmmeee]

i don’t think that’s true. i think some overweight people are desperate for their to be a magic wand cure when the reality is they just need to put in lots of hard work, change their lifestyle, and control their impulses. I think those same people are getting angry with people questioning this unicorn drug…wonder why

Found one. “Just needs hard work and self control!!”

If altering the chemical balance in their body fixes it is this really true?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

i don’t think that’s true. i think some overweight people are desperate for their to be a magic wand cure when the reality is they just need to put in lots of hard work, change their lifestyle, and control their impulses. I think those same people are getting angry with people questioning this unicorn drug…wonder why

There is nothing more demoralising than working very hard to still end up overweight or putting it back on. The people you’re judging might well have already tried and failed multiple times.

 

[shmmeee]

There is nothing more demoralising than working very hard to still end up overweight or putting it back on. The people you’re judging might well have already tried and failed multiple times.

No it’s very very easy and that’s why it’s extremely rare for anyone to do it permanently

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No it’s very very easy and that’s why it’s extremely rare for anyone to do it permanently

Fighting a losing battle myself

 

[shmmeee]

Fighting a losing battle myself

Have you tried being a better human?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Have you tried being a better human?

I will freely admit it’s impulse control at the moment. But when I was eating 1700 calories a day for months and the scales ground to a halt it must have been a lack of (moral) fibre.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I've followed the 'glucosegoddess' on instagram for a while and watched the show she did on C4 recently, I've decided to try and adapt the principles she suggests to avoid a glucose spike to see how I get on and whether it stops any compulsion to snack.

Seems to be going quite well so far.

 

[robbiekeane]

Clearly someone who’s never had a problem
So unbelievably patronising to people who struggle

To be fair pete you don’t know a thing about me really. I actually struggle with my weight quite a lot, and i’d say i have a degree of body dysmorphia. My problem is impulse control, i have a huge sweet tooth and i love junk food. I love it, and once i start something, i can’t stop.

This time last year i was about 175lbs, now im about 186 lbs. I am not saying that’s crisis and im sure people here will have bigger numbers to throw around but it’s certainly not a healthy (i don’t mean physically) fluctuation in weight in a short period of time, especially on a regular basis. About 15 years ago i was 4% bodyfat 163lbs spending two hours in the gym 5 days a week. None of this is healthy.

But do you know why i gained all that weight? Impulse control and lifestyle. Drank too much, ate too much shit, thought i could treat myself to chocolate every now and then and i’d just out train the calories. Stopped going to the gym in the morning kept telling myself id go in the afternoon.

In short i needed to move more and eat less. In reality it’ll probably be something i battle with in some way shape or form my whole life, but ultimately I have needed a lifestyle change and so far this year i’m feeling like ive made a pretty big shift.

you know what else helps? therapy

 

[robbiekeane]

I've followed the 'glucosegoddess' on instagram for a while and watched the show she did on C4 recently, I've decided to try and adapt the principles she suggests to avoid a glucose spike to see how I get on and whether it stops any compulsion to snack.

Seems to be going quite well so far.

Might check this out

 

[robbiekeane]

No it’s very very easy and that’s why it’s extremely rare for anyone to do it permanently

Who says it was easy? It’s simple, it’s not easy

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Clearly someone who’s never had a problem So unbelievably patronising to people who struggle

i don’t think that’s true. i think some overweight people are desperate for their to be a magic wand cure when the reality is they just need to put in lots of hard work, change their lifestyle, and control their impulses. I think those same people are getting angry with people questioning this unicorn drug…wonder why

Clearly someone who’s never had a problem
So unbelievably patronising to people who I’m sorry

To be fair pete you don’t know a thing about me really. I actually struggle with my weight quite a lot, and i’d say i have a degree of body dysmorphia. My problem is impulse control, i have a huge sweet tooth and i love junk food. I love it, and once i start something, i can’t stop.

This time last year i was about 175lbs, now im about 186 lbs. I am not saying that’s crisis and im sure people here will have bigger numbers to throw around but it’s certainly not a healthy (i don’t mean physically) fluctuation in weight in a short period of time, especially on a regular basis. About 15 years ago i was 4% bodyfat 163lbs spending two hours in the gym 5 days a week. None of this is healthy.

But do you know why i gained all that weight? Impulse control and lifestyle. Drank too much, ate too much shit, thought i could treat myself to chocolate every now and then and i’d just out train the calories. Stopped going to the gym in the morning kept telling myself id go in the afternoon.

In short i needed to move more and eat less. In reality it’ll probably be something i battle with in some way shape or form my whole life, but ultimately I have needed a lifestyle change and so far this year i’m feeling like ive made a pretty big shift.

you know what else helps? therapy

I actually tried to edit it but couldn’t earlier
I don’t and I’m sorry
Weight and worrying about it is destroying my wife’s life
She’s tried everything and just feels like a complete failure

 

[robbiekeane]

Clearly someone who’s never had a problem
So unbelievably patronising to people who I’m sorry

I actually tried to edit it but couldn’t earlier
I don’t and I’m sorry
Weight and worrying about it is destroying my wife’s life
She’s tried everything and just feels like a complete failure

At that stage, has she thought about Ozempic? To be clear i’m not saying no one should ever use it, there definitely are situations where it should be considered

I mean if weight is destroying someone’s life then absolutely

 

[chiefdave]

At that stage, has she thought about Ozempic? To be clear i’m not saying no one should ever use it, there definitely are situations where it should be considered

I mean if weight is destroying someone’s life then absolutely

This is where I think the argument gets confused. Obviously don't know the full details of Pete's other half but sounds very much like someone who would meet the NICE requirements and is the type of person who the treatment is aimed at and who would benefit.

But a lot of the conversation seems to concern people who aren't really those who should be prescribed the medication. You see articles, there was one posted on here the other day, of people who have used them or had issues with them and they're just a few pounds overweight.

Think its really distorting the conversation. Its not a drug to be lined up at the clinic alongside things like botox for anyone that decides they want it. Its a drug to address serious medical issues. People who are trying to get access to this via their GP will need to have a BMI of 35+ and other, weight related, medical conditions.

They will almost certainly have been put through existing NHS weight management programs designed around lifestyle changes and have spent years trying everything offered to them and have ended up in a similar situation to Pete's wife, "Weight and worrying about it is destroying my wife’s life. She’s tried everything and just feels like a complete failure". Not sure people that haven't been in that position really understand how much it takes over, and frankly ruins, your life.

Its not fun to be sat with 'experts' being told 'well you should be losing weight, just keep doing the same thing' when its not working. Also not particularly easy to motivate yourself to get up at 6am to go to the gym or stick strictly to a diet plan when fuck all is happening.

 

[robbiekeane]

Think its really distorting the conversation. Its not a drug to be lined up at the clinic alongside things like botox for anyone that decides they want it. Its a drug to address serious medical issues.

Well yes i agree, which is very far from other messages in this thread saying they should “put this stuff in the water” and similar comments. There’s a place for it as a nuclear option, but there are side effects which should be taken seriously and it also does not fix the underlying problem which is having a healthy relations on with food and exercise.

There’s a cruel irony to people saying that it’s not as simple as reducing caloric intake, or that they’re eating at a calorie deficit and simply not losing weight so there must be something else at play, and those same people also saying a drug that literally just reduces your appetite to the point where you are running an extreme calorie deficit, is the answer. Which one is it?

 

[Nick]

Do need to get back to the gym, I have the issue that I hit it really hard for a couple of months and start seeing results but then I do too much and get an injury,