Podcast Ep 32 - Cov's accounts discussed with football finance expert Kieran Maguire (3 Viewers)

[Captain Dart]

What I take from this pod is that the only person that knows King's future intentions in King himself and that the club although it is run at a loss is run at a lower loss than most clubs in a highly competative division where some clubs go for broke, fail and suffer for it.

 

---

[long way home]

Someone asking the questions seemed to want to find a gotcha moment to say i told you so. Which quickly turned into oh fair play response, when the answers he was looking didn't come back. . Which i thought was and sounded a personal thing. The 1st guy was very open to listening with a more balanced ear.

We will have to sell again this summer to balance this out but the selling is not the issue for me. The recruiting and replacing is the key to it all. You need to replace and improve in quality and depth and as long as that's in place to do the club wil carry on looking positive. DK is truly the only one that knows how long he will do this for but i have always said he will leave the club in a far better place than he found it. And i still stick to that opinion but by know means do i fall on every word or agree with all the decisions he makes.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Egotist and narcissist are two descriptors that get overused now, similarly to how people say ‘literally’ about non-literal things.

If you’ve met the guy and been around him for a period time, perhaps your opinion is informed. A lot of people say those things are uninformed and that makes me weary.

He doesn’t suffer stupid or fools and really dislikes people asking clever questions when they can’t back them up with knowledge or evidence

Look at the robins stuff

I quite like someone who changes his mind when they realise they’re wrong
I think he didn’t need to invest all the transfer fees and more
I just don’t think he knows anything about football and needs football experts to cover that

 

[SonofErnie]

Wtaf is John Dawkins on
How can sisu still own the golden share
I think he hears things in his head

Surely the EFL process is there to determine the suitability of the new owner and transfer golden share ownership? This was confirmed at the time

Coventry City: EFL give approval for Doug King's takeover of Sky Blues

New Coventry City owner Doug King completes his purchase of a majority 85% share in the Championship club.

www.bbc.com

 

[ovduk78]

Is the £1.3M rent true?
if so, thats exactly what we were meant to pay back in the early days of the Ricoh/Higgs/Council and we left for Northampton!

Still seems a little excessive for 23 matchdays a year, even if we're in the Championship as opposed to L1/L2!

The main issue with the rent at that time was that our turnover was about £6m so the rent accounted for 20% of that which was unsustainable.

 

[biggymania]

Clearly Dawkins divides opinion but at least you can say his cynicism towards Doug King reflects a lot of the fanbase - so in that respect, having someone firing those questions is probably a good thing. I don't think he's hidden his bias at any point but has definitely softened as DK has shown his intentions with the things the club has been investing in.

All in all, this was a good listen - I love Kieran - he's a great guest and pretty much the only person who can break these things down. The frustrating aspect is that we don't really understand the nature of the "loan" from DK (other than we're not currently paying interest) from him - we / Kieran can only speculate.

Presumably the end goal here for DK is to sell the club after promotion at a massive profit and recoup that loan + make a lot more. It's only if that doesn't pan out in his 5 year time frame that things will become challenging, I suppose.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

He doesn’t suffer stupid or fools and really dislikes people asking clever questions when they can’t back them up with knowledge or evidence

Look at the robins stuff

I quite like someone who changes his mind when they realise they’re wrong
I think he didn’t need to invest all the transfer fees and more
I just don’t think he knows anything about football and needs football experts to cover that

You look at the accounts and the growth in revenue shows the club is being run well and sustainably. There’s an operating loss but that’s a reality of chasing the riches of Premiership football.

There is a narrative that you need ‘football people’ to run a football club. That was probably true up until the 90s, maybe early 00s. Now, you need people who can run big businesses and commercialise every facet of the club. Like it or loathe it, that’s where football is at.

 

[Nick]

Clearly Dawkins divides opinion but at least you can say his cynicism towards Doug King reflects a lot of the fanbase - so in that respect, having someone firing those questions is probably a good thing. I don't think he's hidden his bias at any point but has definitely softened as DK has shown his intentions with the things the club has been investing in.

All in all, this was a good listen - I love Kieran - he's a great guest and pretty much the only person who can break these things down. The frustrating aspect is that we don't really understand the nature of the "loan" from DK (other than we're not currently paying interest) from him - we / Kieran can only speculate.

Presumably the end goal here for DK is to sell the club after promotion at a massive profit and recoup that loan + make a lot more. It's only if that doesn't pan out in his 5 year time frame that things will become challenging, I suppose.

Does it reflect the fan base though? I guess the shit stiring and misinformation doesn't help.

 

[biggymania]

Does it reflect the fan base though? I guess the shit stiring and misinformation doesn't help.

You think our fanbase doesn't contain a lot of shit stirring and misinformation? Have you read this forum!?

 

[Nick]

You think our fanbase doesn't contain a lot of shit stirring and misinformation? Have you read this forum!?

And how much comes from people like Dawkins on social media?

 

[chiefdave]

football finance expert Kieran Maguire

 

[biggymania]

And how much comes from people like Dawkins on social media?

Some? Let us not forget chemtrails whatshisname and plenty of others.

But still, you only have to read here, twitter, facebook or listen to a phone in to understand that there are large parts of the fanbase that will question anyone's motive. My point is - having that view represented is probably just fine - especially when you have someone like Kieran who has no bias and is a legitimate expert - probably the foremost in the country if not the world.

 

[chiefdave]

Rent seems high which I imagine would increase in the future. Then you realise the lost revenue in regards to the stadium name deal, hotel rent, office space rent, food and drinks and parking alongside events in the arena and do feel we are losing out on a lot of income which would help the books.

If Frasers refuse to sell, it could hurt us in the long term imo. Of course building a new arena would cost a small fortune which we don’t have, so hopefully they sell up.

Can't see Frasers selling anytime soon, they seems to be investing a fair amount into the stadium and are looking at buying other grounds so clearly its part of their business plan.

We don't know what we get for the rent these days do we? £1.3m for just 20 something days use of the pitch with ridiculous conditions that we had previously like limited access before and after games is very different to having the clubs shop there, offices (not sure if we moved the offices out of Ryton?), potentially a cut of any F&B, parking etc.

 

[Nick]

Some? Let us not forget chemtrails whatshisname and plenty of others.

But still, you only have to read here, twitter, facebook or listen to a phone in to understand that there are large parts of the fanbase that will question anyone's motive. My point is - having that view represented is probably just fine - especially when you have someone like Kieran who has no bias and is a legitimate expert - probably the foremost in the country if not the world.

There's questioning motive and there's talking nonsense though...

Let's not forget Kieran Maguire has been wrong about our accounts a fair few times as well.

I guess if you get all your facts from Maguire and Dawkins then you're probably going to be misinformed over time.

 

[biggymania]

There's questioning motive and there's talking nonsense though...

Let's not forget Kieran Maguire has been wrong about our accounts a fair few times as well.

I guess if you get all your facts from Maguire and Dawkins then you're probably going to be misinformed over time.

My point is more - it's better to have someone represent these views (Dawkins) with someone very qualified to confirm or deny them (Maguire).

Your point is...

 

[TomRad85]

Some? Let us not forget chemtrails whatshisname and plenty of others.

But still, you only have to read here, twitter, facebook or listen to a phone in to understand that there are large parts of the fanbase that will question anyone's motive. My point is - having that view represented is probably just fine - especially when you have someone like Kieran who has no bias and is a legitimate expert - probably the foremost in the country if not the world.

 

[chiefdave]

I don't get the King is SISU thing at all. I can believe King was owed money by them and thats how he ended up with the club. That makes sense when there's no other reason a non-Cov fan who we've never even heard of would suddenly decide to buy a club in the state we were in.

But that's pretty much irrelevant and doesn't make any difference to what happens going forward.

The biggest question for me is that he seems to have a 5 year plan to get us in the PL and cash out. What happens if we don't get promotion by the end of that plan?

 

[Nick]

My point is more - it's better to have someone represent these views (Dawkins) with someone very qualified to confirm or deny them (Maguire).

Your point is...

My point is if he's been spreading the shite over time, just because he asks somebody it doesn't make his shite any more credible if he's just asking nonsense questions.

It's the equivalent of somebody going to a fans forum with seppala and asking about pin badges or why can't we sign Ronaldo.

Let's also face it, Maguire has often been known to spin things to suit.

Sorry to insult your heroes.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

My point is if he's been spreading the shite over time, just because he asks somebody it doesn't make his shite any more credible if he's just asking nonsense questions.

It's the equivalent of somebody going to a fans forum with seppala and asking about pin badges or why can't we sign Ronaldo.

Let's also face it, Maguire has often been known to spin things to suit.

Sorry to insult your heroes.

What makes me chuckle is the number of people at the forum that have their pictures taken with him lol
It was the same at the robins forum too
Even the trust didn’t have their picture taken with the parties lol oops maybe they did

I always think it’s much better at least pretending to be professional and try to impact those things that can be and to manage expectations that much like voting if it made any difference they wouldn’t let us do it or attend forums

Pretty sure John Taylor is engaged with making things better and is willing to listen to us

 

[Nick]

What makes me chuckle is the number of people at the forum that have their pictures taken with him lol
It was the same at the robins forum too
Even the trust didn’t have their picture taken with the parties lol oops maybe they did

I always think it’s much better at least pretending to be professional and try to impact those things that can be and to manage expectations that much like voting if it made any difference they wouldn’t let us do it or attend forums

Pretty sure John Taylor is engaged with making things better and is willing to listen to us

No idea who or why would want a picture with a football club owner. Always thought the song was cringeworthy as well.

Players / Manager / Sky Blue Sam I get.

 

[TomRad85]

No idea who or why would want a picture with a football club owner. Always thought the song was cringeworthy as well.

Players / Manager / Sky Blue Sam I get.

Wait until your hear what Birmingham fans do to their owner. Geezers cock must be worn down to a shrivelled nub.

 

[biggymania]

My point is if he's been spreading the shite over time, just because he asks somebody it doesn't make his shite any more credible if he's just asking nonsense questions.

It's the equivalent of somebody going to a fans forum with seppala and asking about pin badges or why can't we sign Ronaldo.

Let's also face it, Maguire has often been known to spin things to suit.

Sorry to insult your heroes.

Never once did I call it credible - I'm stating that having someone repeating what a lot of the fanbase think to someone who is more than capable of sticking to the facts of the accounts as he interprets them is actually a good thing.

Maguire has "often been known to spin things to suit" - would love to hear some facts on that - I don't follow everything he does but it would surprise me if he had a dog in the Coventry City fight.

Heroes? More than just heroes mate - I've got their names tattooed on my bum cheeks along with "Nick The Administrator". Don't make me get it lasered, you're hurting my feelings here.

 

[mmttww]

so I get 4 mins in and hear the host say that we sold Vik and Gus for "a lot of money" and invested in the squad using "a bit of that money". Hard to trust there's not an angle to it after that. We've spent a load more than we got from those two sales. Weird.

Edit: incl. EMC we spent about £30m across two windows vs. around £35m in sales. Labelling 85% of something as 'a bit' seems disingenuous.

 

[Nick]

Never once did I call it credible - I'm stating that having someone repeating what a lot of the fanbase think to someone who is more than capable of sticking to the facts of the accounts as he interprets them is actually a good thing.

Maguire has "often been known to spin things to suit" - would love to hear some facts on that - I don't follow everything he does but it would surprise me if he had a dog in the Coventry City fight.

Heroes? More than just heroes mate - I've got their names tattooed on my bum cheeks along with "Nick The Administrator". Don't make me get it lasered, you're hurting my feelings here.

Maguire would often spin stuff about us years ago and was wrong a fair few times, he does play up to the general fans feelings at the time. Not saying he has a dog in the fight.

 

[JSL]

What worries me a little is all the addons that we have in players contracts should we get promoted. Its a great way to get the initial transfer fee affordable to us, but without knowing what we agreed to, there could be a hefty chunk due if we do get promoted

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What worries me a little is all the addons that we have in players contracts should we get promoted. Its a great way to get the initial transfer fee affordable to us, but without knowing what we agreed to, there could be a hefty chunk due if we do get promoted

Won’t be £170mn though

 

[Deity]

What worries me a little is all the addons that we have in players contracts should we get promoted. Its a great way to get the initial transfer fee affordable to us, but without knowing what we agreed to, there could be a hefty chunk due if we do get promoted

the very definition of a first world problem.

 

[Captain Dart]

You look at the accounts and the growth in revenue shows the club is being run well and sustainably. There’s an operating loss but that’s a reality of chasing the riches of Premiership football.

There is a narrative that you need ‘football people’ to run a football club. That was probably true up until the 90s, maybe early 00s. Now, you need people who can run big businesses and commercialise every facet of the club. Like it or loathe it, that’s where football is at.

We had Ray Ranson running the club in 2007 supposedly up to date with the latest analysis techniques, a spendthrift and a gambler.

He was disasterous for the club.

 

[SkyBlueMatt]

What worries me a little is all the addons that we have in players contracts should we get promoted. Its a great way to get the initial transfer fee affordable to us, but without knowing what we agreed to, there could be a hefty chunk due if we do get promoted

please don't lose any sleep over it. I really don't think it will be a problem, drop in the ocean.

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk

 

[mmttww]

What worries me a little is all the addons that we have in players contracts should we get promoted. Its a great way to get the initial transfer fee affordable to us, but without knowing what we agreed to, there could be a hefty chunk due if we do get promoted

That'll be £5-10m at most, I'd expect. Not something to worry about when a season in that league earns you about £110m in TV money alone. We'd manage.

 

[Captain Dart]

What worries me a little is all the addons that we have in players contracts should we get promoted. Its a great way to get the initial transfer fee affordable to us, but without knowing what we agreed to, there could be a hefty chunk due if we do get promoted

There is an entry in the accounts which I think covers potential future liabilities like that. Maybe I have misunderstood, if so please enlighten me.

NB Of course those figures predate the signings of quite a few regulars in the squad.

 

[JSL]

Fair enough folks, my mind is at rest Next years accounts will also include some severance packages within them for the likes of MR, AV and all the coaches let go.

 

[Sky Blue Goblin]

Obviously playoff hopes have gripped me but I do wonder if we went up what we would spend all the £190 million on.

Id like to think we’d make a good go of it and unlike the teams that went up this year we’ve got a manager with premiership experience.

But do feel you have to spend a fortune to have a chance and we might never have as great a opportunity to sort some of the long term infrastructure out. Least some of us would finally get their free ticket

 

[Deity]

We had Ray Ranson running the club in 2007 supposedly up to date with the latest analysis techniques, a spendthrift and a gambler.

He was disasterous for the club.

That’s not my recollection of him.

I think he had a money ball approach ahead of time which the investors initially supported and then stopped.

My criticism of him would be one of self interest but i don’t think his strategy was wrong. It’s been copied many times since.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Is King on his own, is he working on SISUs behalf as they were his guests at the Play off Final or is King in Cahoots with Frasers