Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (16 Viewers)

[Captain Dart]

A different POV..


@RichardHanania

I watched the entire press conference with Zelensky. There was 40 minutes of discussion up to the argument. Most people saw at most the last ten minutes. The whole video gives the proper context.

When I first watched the argument without the proper context, I thought it was possible that Trump and Vance ambushed Zelensky or were even trying to humiliate him. That's not what happened.

You had 40 minutes of calm conversation. Vance made a point that didn't attack Zelensky and wasn't even addressed to him, and Zelensky clearly started the argument.

In the first 40 minutes, Zelensky kept trying to go beyond what was negotiated in the deal. When Trump was asked a question, it was always "we'll see." Zelensky made blanket assertions that there would be no negotiating with Putin, and that Russia would pay for the war. When Trump said that it was a tragedy that people on both sides were dying, Zelensky interjected that the Russians were the invaders.

For his part, Trump made clear that the US would continue delivering military aid. All Zelensky had to do was remain calm for a few more minutes and they would've signed a deal.

The argument started when Trump pointed out that it would be hard to make a deal if you talk about Putin the way Zelensky does. Vance interjects to make the reasonable point that Biden called Putin names and that didn't get us anywhere.

The Zelensky/Trump dynamic was calm and stable. It was when Vance spoke that Zelensky started to interrogate him. Throughout the press conference to that point, everyone was making their arguments directly to the audience. Zelensky decided to challenge Vance and ask him hostile questions. He went back to his point that Putin never sticks to ceasefires, once again implying that negotiations are pointless. Why on earth would you do this? Then came the fight we all saw.

Zelensky was minutes away from being home free, and he would have had the deal and new commitments from the Trump administration. The point Vance made was directed against Biden and the media, taking them to task for speaking in moralistic terms. This offended Zelensky, and that began the argument.

I've been a fan of Zelensky up to this point, but this showed so much incompetence, if not emotional instability, that I don't see how he recovers from this. The relationship with the administration is broken. Ukraine should probably go with new leadership at this point.

 

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[Evo1883]

Let's take a look at the arrogance , the petulance , the belittling and the pettiness of these people

 

[Evo1883]

A different POV..


@RichardHanania

I watched the entire press conference with Zelensky. There was 40 minutes of discussion up to the argument. Most people saw at most the last ten minutes. The whole video gives the proper context.

When I first watched the argument without the proper context, I thought it was possible that Trump and Vance ambushed Zelensky or were even trying to humiliate him. That's not what happened.

You had 40 minutes of calm conversation. Vance made a point that didn't attack Zelensky and wasn't even addressed to him, and Zelensky clearly started the argument.

In the first 40 minutes, Zelensky kept trying to go beyond what was negotiated in the deal. When Trump was asked a question, it was always "we'll see." Zelensky made blanket assertions that there would be no negotiating with Putin, and that Russia would pay for the war. When Trump said that it was a tragedy that people on both sides were dying, Zelensky interjected that the Russians were the invaders.

For his part, Trump made clear that the US would continue delivering military aid. All Zelensky had to do was remain calm for a few more minutes and they would've signed a deal.

The argument started when Trump pointed out that it would be hard to make a deal if you talk about Putin the way Zelensky does. Vance interjects to make the reasonable point that Biden called Putin names and that didn't get us anywhere.

The Zelensky/Trump dynamic was calm and stable. It was when Vance spoke that Zelensky started to interrogate him. Throughout the press conference to that point, everyone was making their arguments directly to the audience. Zelensky decided to challenge Vance and ask him hostile questions. He went back to his point that Putin never sticks to ceasefires, once again implying that negotiations are pointless. Why on earth would you do this? Then came the fight we all saw.

Zelensky was minutes away from being home free, and he would have had the deal and new commitments from the Trump administration. The point Vance made was directed against Biden and the media, taking them to task for speaking in moralistic terms. This offended Zelensky, and that began the argument.

I've been a fan of Zelensky up to this point, but this showed so much incompetence, if not emotional instability, that I don't see how he recovers from this. The relationship with the administration is broken. Ukraine should probably go with new leadership at this point.

Vance said it should be resolved through diplomatic means and zelensky pointed out that they'd tried this before and putin broke the agreements.

Vance didn't like that zelensky said this so decided to tell him that he disrespected the oval office then proceeds to tell him hes forcing conscription on his countrymen etc etc , Vance quite literally started the argument

 

[SkyBlueMatt]

Zelenskyy thanking people for their support Trump, Vance and the US are embarrassing.



Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk

 

[djr8369]

That is not realistic

What’s not realistic is kicking the can down the road.

 

[mmttww]

I'm not sure how historical precedent suggests that a Ukrainian capitulation of a peace deal is in the interests of Ukraine, Britain or the rest of Europe even if it might simplistically seem momentarily expedient.

 

[mmttww]

Trump rumoured to be stopping all military aid...

Like the wall he built and got Mexico to pay for?

 

[djr8369]

Think Putin will be looking at the Baltic states next after Ukraine so anyone who thinks it will end soon I think are under a false illusion. The man's a danger to the whole of Europe.

Yes it’s why saying Ukraine can’t win while trying to sound smart makes you the most naive person in the room.
At some point somebody has to stand up, the sooner that is the better for everyone.

 

[djr8369]

Course he will and why not

Maybe a few here can wave him on while saying it isn’t realistic to stop him.

 

[Samueljames1991]

They want WW3 so they can use martial law to stop any future elections.

I hope the rest of the west learns from this and lets America isolate itself from the rest of the world. All the tarrif talk is bull shit and will only hurt America more than anywhere else.

Let them play there stupid games and hopefully ourselves and the EU can unite and protect ourselves from anything ahead.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Vance said it should be resolved through diplomatic means and zelensky pointed out that they'd tried this before and putin broke the agreements.

Vance didn't like that zelensky said this so decided to tell him that he disrespected the oval office then proceeds to tell him hes forcing conscription on his countrymen etc etc , Vance quite literally started the argument

He said has he been to Ukraine and Vance starts to say yes and stops then said he’s seen it on tv

what a shit show of a man

 

[Samueljames1991]

He said has he been to Ukraine and Vance starts to say yes and stops then said he’s seen it on tv

what a shit show of a man

He's a moron

Anyone who voted for them are uneducated muppets suspectable to propaganda same as reform here.

Honestly seriously considering moving away from the West over the next few years don't see any kind of happy future here.

 

[torchomatic]

The yanks saying they were disrespected in their oval office is absolute nonsense BTW, the only person disrespected today was the president of Ukraine

Only the MAGAts and others in thrall to Trump will feel "disrespected". The rest of the world know the truth of it.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Europe would destroy russia militarily , thats fact

Perfect, then all the European powers can join the war in Ukraine and win it without the USA.

Russia has a more active military personnel than approximately; France, Italy, Germany, UK, Spain and Poland combined. There’s still change left over of around 100k military.

Russia’s economy and armed forces are actually mobilised, Europe isn’t.

 

[Evo1883]

Perfect, then all the European powers can join the war in Ukraine and win it without the USA.

Russia has a more active military personnel than approximately; France, Italy, Germany, UK, Spain and Poland combined. There’s still change left over of around 100k military.

Russia’s economy and armed forces are actually mobilised, Europe isn’t.

Russia have inferior equipment and training and the combined forces of the European forces would beat russia alone .

The main concern isn't russia alone , russia has a military budget about twice as small as the European nations combined

Russia also Doesn't currently have the man power it did before the war .. the Europeans do

Many european soldiers have been engaged in combat over the last decade in the middle east and in other operations around the world

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

He's a moron

Anyone who voted for them are uneducated muppets suspectable to propaganda same as reform here.

Honestly seriously considering moving away from the West over the next few years don't see any kind of happy future here.

Classic playbook of condescending liberals… anyone who votes in a way contrary to how they vote is ‘uneducated’, ‘susceptible to propaganda’ or the best one ‘didn’t know what they were voting for’. People know what they voted for, they’re not uneducated and cajoled by propaganda… they just have a different worldview to you.

 

[Evo1883]

Classic playbook of condescending liberals… anyone who votes in a way contrary to how they vote is ‘uneducated’, ‘susceptible to propaganda’ or the best one ‘didn’t know what they were voting for’. People know what they voted for, they’re not uneducated and cajoled by propaganda… they just have a different worldview to you.

Unfortunately brexit has shown that many of us vote based on emotional bollocks and propaganda

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Russia have inferior equipment and training and the combined forces of the European forces would beat russia alone .

The main concern isn't russia alone , russia has a military budget about twice as small as the European nations combined

Russia also Doesn't currently have the man power it did before the war .. the Europeans do

Even if all those things are true and that’s debatable… Russia has the political will to prosecute war, Europe really doesn’t.

Unfortunately brexit has shown that many of us vote based on emotional bollocks and propaganda

Things aren’t much better over the pond in the EU. The issues are more or less copied and pasted in all the major EU economies.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Classic playbook of condescending liberals… anyone who votes in a way contrary to how they vote is ‘uneducated’, ‘susceptible to propaganda’ or the best one ‘didn’t know what they were voting for’. People know what they voted for, they’re not uneducated and cajoled by propaganda… they just have a different worldview to you.

Who let Joe Rogan hack this otherwise intelligent poster’s account?

 

[Evo1883]

Even if all those things are true and that’s debatable… Russia has the political will to prosecute war, Europe really doesn’t.

Russia is currently struggling to beat a financially backed single european nation let alone the entire continent .. wake up mate

The bigger problem is who a european conflict would drag in

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

There you go and he said he’s never been so proud of a US president before… it’s not like a bad thing for the US to put US interests first.

Our number one priority should be ourselves. Look at the sorry state of our armed forces, we’re not in a position to project power even if we wanted too.

Some people can't see that putting yourself first now can lead to you putting yourself in a lot of shit tomorrow.

 

[Flying Fokker]

Zelensky just being interviewed on Fox News. Composed and very clear on several issues about today. And in my view, very statesman like.

Watch Fox News Channel Online | Stream Fox News

Watch live news and updates that are happening right now with Fox News. Stay up-to-date with the latest and most trending news going on in real-time.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Samueljames1991]

Classic playbook of condescending liberals… anyone who votes in a way contrary to how they vote is ‘uneducated’, ‘susceptible to propaganda’ or the best one ‘didn’t know what they were voting for’. People know what they voted for, they’re not uneducated and cajoled by propaganda… they just have a different worldview to you.

Except statistics say otherwise uneducated people are suspectable to propaganda and poor media literacy.

A serious lack of critical thinking is a huge problem, they're convinced Biden caused inflation which was caused by a supply crisis shock during COVID for example.

It wasn't educated people trying to burn down a hotel housing asylum seekers in the summer was it? Fact is populist leaders like Trump get support from uneducated people as they provide simple answers to incredibly complicated problems.

And if this is what they voted for and they know it then they are horrible unemphatic callous people same as reform voters in the UK

I will continue to call it out as I should

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Russia is currently struggling to beat a financially backed single european nation let alone the entire continent .. wake up mate

The bigger problem is who a european conflict would drag in

You say that as if Ukraine isn’t Europe’s 3rd biggest country.

What would you define as victory?

Except statistics say otherwise uneducated people are suspectable to propaganda and poor media literacy.

A serious lack of critical thinking is a huge problem, they're convinced Biden caused inflation which was caused by a supply crisis shock during COVID for example.

It wasn't educated people trying to burn down a hotel housing asylum seekers in the summer was it? Fact is populist leaders like Trump get support from uneducated people as they provide simple answers to incredibly complicated problems.

And if this is what they voted for and they know it then they are horrible unemphatic callous people same as reform voters in the UK

I will continue to call it out as I should

Just to be clear because I don’t want to misinterpret anything here…

49.8% of the US voted for Trump, what % of the 77.3m of those people would you say are ‘uneducated’ or ‘misinformed?’

Just as a cross-reference, of the 75m who voted Harris… were any of those people uneducated and/or misinformed?

 

[Samueljames1991]

You say that as if Ukraine isn’t Europe’s 3rd biggest country.

What would you define as victory?



Just to be clear because I don’t want to misinterpret anything here…

49.8% of the US voted for Trump, what % of the 77.3m of those people would you say are ‘uneducated’ or ‘misinformed?’

Just as a cross-reference, of the 75m who voted Harris… were any of those people uneducated and/or misinformed?

First of all victory for Ukraine would be full withdrawal of all Russian troops including the Crimea region and a trial of Putin for war crimes.

In regards to your second point Americas education system is abysmal. A lot of MAGA and Republican support comes from middle America and the South (see the election charts by state) a lot of these states have significantly less funding for education compared the coastal Democrat states and are relatively poor in comparison.

Why do states with significantly worse and poorly funded education vote Republican rather than democrat when it goes against their best interest? Why do Republican states have significantly worse funding for things like education is it by design?

I'm not getting at anyone or their political views I just really struggle to get my head around it if I'm honest and I'm in complete shock about what's going on?

How's a country that's been invaded by a foreign aggressor in the wrong? Why do the people in America who are against helping Ukraine parrot Russian propaganda saying Zelensky is corrupt?

Sorry many questions fired back can tell I've had a pint

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

You say that as if Ukraine isn’t Europe’s 3rd biggest country.

What would you define as victory?



Just to be clear because I don’t want to misinterpret anything here…

49.8% of the US voted for Trump, what % of the 77.3m of those people would you say are ‘uneducated’ or ‘misinformed?’

Just as a cross-reference, of the 75m who voted Harris… were any of those people uneducated and/or misinformed?

49.8% of people voted for trump, yet you’ll have the well thought of and highly qualified ‘experts’ of the forum that is skybluestalk, tell you he’s hated by everybody.

 

[Samueljames1991]

49.8% of people voted for trump, yet you’ll have the well thought of and highly qualified ‘experts’ of the forum that is skybluestalk, tell you he’s hated by everybody.

49.8% of people that voted isn't 49.8% of a country

Cognitive Dissonance is a very powerful thing and we're already starting to see it play out in American political discourse.

People are already saying things like "Trump doesn't really mean what he says" but fuck it anything to own the libs

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

49.8% of people that voted isn't 49.8% of a country

Cognitive Dissonance is a very powerful thing and we're already starting to see it play out.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

First of all victory for Ukraine would be full withdrawal of all Russian troops including the Crimea region and a trial of Putin for war crimes.

In regards to your second point Americas education system is abysmal. A lot of MAGA and Republican support comes from middle America and the South (see the election charts by state) a lot of these states have significantly less funding for education compared the coastal Democrat states and are relatively poor in comparison.

Why do states with significantly worse and poorly funded education vote Republican rather than democrat when it goes against their best interest? Why do Republican states have significantly worse funding for things like education is it by design?

I'm not getting at anyone or their political views I just really struggle to get my head around it if I'm honest and I'm in complete shock about what's going on?

How's a country that's been invaded by a foreign aggressor in the wrong? Why do the people in America who are against helping Ukraine parrot Russian propaganda saying Zelensky is corrupt?

Sorry many questions fired back can tell I've had a pint

Point 1 - how do you achieve that victory?

The same electorate who voted for Biden, Trump x2 and Obama x2 was mostly the same. So was the electorate more enlightened in 2020 compared to 2016 and 2024? I’m curious to understand the maths here.

Why is voting Democrat inherently in the interest of poorer people? Both Trump presidencies came after Democrat admins. So clearly the policies were rejected, twice. Relying on the state handouts is not the route to a better, prosperous life.

Trump calling Zelensky a dictator was out of line imo. Zelensky is seen as an abrasive character by many and has alienating some of his allies and the US public are siding with Trump/Vance on this public spat.

 

[Samueljames1991]

What's Biden got to do with Trump being a dangerous prick?

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

What's Biden got to do with Trump being a dangerous prick?

 

[mmttww]

49.8% of people voted for trump, yet you’ll have the well thought of and highly qualified ‘experts’ of the forum that is skybluestalk, tell you he’s hated by everybody.

I don't know about everybody, but I don't like him. Someone who walks around sh*tting in nappies whilst still promoting McDonald's all the time just doesn't seem trustworthy to me.

 

[fernandopartridge]

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Think we need to be keeping our relationship with the USA as strong as possible, do you want a complete breakdown or something?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Think we need to be keeping our relationship with the USA as strong as possible, do you want a complete breakdown or something?

It's irrelevant in reality to our relationship with the USA, offering him a state visit to try and massage his ego was a vacuous act by a prime minister completely out of his depth.

In any case, can you list for me some tangible benefits of the "special relationship"?