Trump is my favourite comedian of the year already (27 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Where has that anything to do with what I have just said?

You’re lauding Trump as a peacemaker. The truth is really you’re just pleased he has taken Putin’s side in the matter.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Come on bsb no one else is bothering to talk to anyone it’s just trump and Vance with the ideas

I mean even forgetting Obama had already decided against a mineral deal as it wouldn’t be cost effective for the USA

Let’s not forget he was bragging about bombing Somalia last month too.

 

[Grendel]

You’re lauding Trump as a peacemaker. The truth is really you’re just pleased he has taken Putin’s side in the matter.

I am not lauding anyone - I am just making a factually accurate statement

 

[PVA]

Perhaps you should be wondering why no one before was bothered about finding a solution

Maybe you should be wondering why no one before took sides with Putin (well, apart from North Korea and Co)

 

[Captain Dart]

I can't believe how easy the ignorant public want a perpetual war.

I see a group of European leaders are now talking up rearming, weapons manufacturers will benefit tremendously.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Maybe you should be wondering why no one before took sides with Putin (well, apart from North Korea and Co)

I mean grendel is not wrong and neither is trump we should be pursuing peace at almost any cost
But seemingly taking putins side - zelensky dictator, not interested in peace etc etc is just not right it’s not a just peace

 

[Grendel]

Maybe you should be wondering why no one before took sides with Putin (well, apart from North Korea and Co)

No one has taken sides.

Trump has spoken to Putin. Oddly you have to speak to people and negotiate. Shock horror.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

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I can't believe how easy the ignorant public want a perpetual war.

I see a group of European leaders are now talking up rearming, weapons manufacturers will benefit tremendously.

No one wants war literally not one person

 

[Captain Dart]

No one wants war literally not one person

Zelensky still seems keen.

 

[Grendel]

No one wants war literally not one person

War creates economic benefits at the expense of the lower classes who do the fighting. Many profit through war and it seems the EU are licking their lips at solving economic downturn through ammunition building.

 

[PVA]

I mean grendel is not wrong and neither is trump we should be pursuing peace at almost any cost
But seemingly taking putins side - zelensky dictator, not interested in peace etc etc is just not right it’s not a just peace

Of course, everyone wants peace and as soon as possible.

It's just some people think giving in to Putin means peace, I don't think it does.

 

[Grendel]

Of course, everyone wants peace and as soon as possible.

It's just some people think giving in to Putin means peace, I don't think it does.

How will you achieve peace? Why has no one come close to achieving it in 3 years?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I am not lauding anyone - I am just making a factually accurate statement

Peace could have been had in weeks after the Russian invasion without US and European support. Of course Ukraine would have been defeated, but still.

It’s the military stalemate that has forced Putin to the table. A peace that turns Ukraine into an American vassal state and doesn’t actually prevent a future invasion is a strange way of treating a state that isn’t the aggressor

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Zelensky still seems keen.

Only if you don’t listen to what he says

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

How will you achieve peace? Why has no one come close to achieving it in 3 years?

How would you know Grendel?
mat what point in the Second World War should the uk have capitulated

 

[Grendel]

Peace could have been had in weeks after the Russian invasion without US and European support. Of course Ukraine would have been defeated, but still.

It’s the military stalemate that has forced Putin to the table. A peace that turns Ukraine into an American vassal state and doesn’t actually prevent a future invasion is a strange way of treating a state that isn’t the aggressor

It was always going to be a vessel state - the US does nothing without a benefit for itself whoever is in charge.

 

[Grendel]

How would you know Grendel?
mat what point in the Second World War should the uk have capitulated

Is this a serious conversation - come on

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Is this a serious conversation - come on

Course it is
At what point do you think the uk should have capitulated in the Second World War?
It’s mighty fine you telling ukraine when they should give their country up
Good fuckin job that the USA stepped in when they did rather than expecting us to lay down arms

 

[Captain Dart]

Only if you don’t listen to what he says

It doesn't matter what he says, he has to go with whatever the USA and Russia agree, so will Europe.

If American and European contractors are working in Ukraine which will happen once there is a peace accord then Russia will not attack, besides Ukraine and Russia need 10 or 15 years to replace all the people they have lost in this conflict.

It's not as if this sort of thing has not happened before are you not aware of the history? After WWI the European powers supported the White Russians with military equipment against the Communists, after years of struggle the Communists won out, the Communists also fought Poland but in that they were unsuccessful.

I'm for peace and I don't support war.

 

[Grendel]

Course it is
At what point do you think the uk should have capitulated in the Second World War?
It’s mighty fine you telling ukraine when they should give their country up
Good fuckin job that the USA stepped in when they did rather than expecting us to lay down arms

I have always said Ukraine has a right to defend itself. Zelensky has made zero effort to end this war through negotiation - he even said he would send his people to die until Crimea was recovered.

It is on him. To compare this spat to WW2 is ludicrous.

Out of interest when Stalin starting invading the Eastern Block after WW2 would you have had the same outrage and wanted WW3?

 

[PVA]

It doesn't matter what he says, he has to go with whatever the USA and Russia agree

No he doesn't. He can flat out refuse both if he gets guarantees from Europe.

 

[PVA]

It is on him.

 

[Grendel]

No he doesn't. He can flat out refuse both if he gets guarantees from Europe.

What guarantees will he get from Europe? Why do you keep wanting billions spending on this folly with zero hope for peace unless Putin is included in negotations?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I have always said Ukraine has a right to defend itself. Zelensky has made zero effort to end this war through negotiation - he even said he would send his people to die until Crimea was recovered.

It is on him. To compare this spat to WW2 is ludicrous.

Out of interest when Stalin starting invading the Eastern Block after WW2 would you have had the same outrage and wanted WW3?

I wasn’t born
There’s plenty of examples where we don’t give a shit so I take your point completely
I don’t think you can say he’s made zero effort you have no idea

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It was always going to be a vessel state - the US does nothing without a benefit for itself whoever is in charge.

So for nearly 3 years the US benefited from a conflict it now wants to settle?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

 

[Flying Fokker]

 

[Evo1883]

The facts appear to be…

- Ukraine cannot continue to fight the war or even defend themselves properly, without significant U.S assistance
- Europes inaction over recent years to increase defence spending/capacity has left a reliance on U.S.
- The U.S. has no skin in the game really, this is on our doorstep, not theirs
- Trump is anti war
- The minerals deal was pretty much agreed and just needed signing - my understanding is this relates to future support not historical
- Zelensky should’ve gone with an interpreter - I heard someone on the radio who made a great point about it making sure there was no misunderstandings but more importantly it would’ve taken heat out of situation
- Trump and even more so, Vance’s, conduct in public in that way was totally unacceptable...however, we still need the US onside and to remain in NATO for at least the foreseeable future.

I still think a deal will be done. I just hope that at least some of trumps actions/words have been done to get Putin to the table and that any ‘deal’ doesn’t just hand over everything Putin wants.

America have given Europe assurances since WW2 and have around 40 bases all over europe both as a strategic measure and as a way to keep the peace .

They disarmed Ukraine of its nuclear capability in return for promised protection

 

[Otis]

No one has taken sides.

Trump has spoken to Putin. Oddly you have to speak to people and negotiate. Shock horror.

Totally agree.

Does seem Trump bought everything that Putin told him though.

Immediately after that meeting, Trump said that Ukraine started the war and that Zelenskyy was a dictator.

So Trump believed someone who IS a dictator, telling him that the person who isn't a dictator, is a dictator.

 

[duffer]

Zelensky still seems keen.

Fuck yeah, that hideous warmonger Zelenskyy, invading peace-loving Russia to try to install a puppet government.

What would you want if it was a country you cared about in Ukraine's situation, eh?

I'm not sure if you'd claim to be an actual patriot, I guess it would depend on what Trump told you, but let's imagine it was England and everything south of the M4 had been occupied by an authoritarian lunatic who said your country had no right to exist, whilst bombing the rest of it on a nightly basis.

Would you want your elected leader to sit and take it. To beg for peace on the aggressor's terms?

 

[Evo1883]

Totally agree.

Does seem Trump bought everything that Putin told him though.

Immediately after that meeting, Trump said that Ukraine started the war and that Zelenskyy was a dictator.

So Trump believed someone who IS a dictator, telling him that the person who isn't a dictator, is a dictator.

Has he ever said anything bad about putin ?

 

[duffer]

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I can't believe how easy the ignorant public want a perpetual war.

I see a group of European leaders are now talking up rearming, weapons manufacturers will benefit tremendously.

I can't believe people quote Orwell thinking he stood for what they believe...

The Orwell quotes right-wingers never mention

If you’ve ever expressed a political view to the left of Tony Blair, chances are you’ve been met with a response along the lines of: ‘Haven’t you ever read any Orwell?’ The irony of this statement is usually in how little Orwell that person has actually read.

libcom.org

 

[Otis]

Has he ever said anything bad about putin ?

Good question. I'm not sure.

 

[PVA]

Has he ever said anything bad about putin ?

I think the closest he has come was calling the invasion a 'terrible thing', although that's still not necessarily calling Putin out I guess.

He has called him a 'good guy' though and a great leader etc.

 

[Grendel]

So for nearly 3 years the US benefited from a conflict it now wants to settle?

Again I do not get your point. Surely even if that was the case you would welcome it as it means less deaths and suffering?