Jimmy Hill V Mark Robbins (7 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Excellent summary and to even suggest thorn was better than black, Nielsen, Adams, Dowie etc. is complete tripe.

All of those have either achieved or gone on to achieve things in the game. I can see Thorn reentering football at some point but no higher than League 2.

 

---

[Mucca Mad Boys]

MR has improved the squad by making them fitter, Fleck looks a new player now, he's slimmer etc. Barton has played better under MR than AT, Edj didn't start under Thorn, whilst Malaga got sent to Nuneaton, Brown got told to fuck off, Hussey got dropped, Cody got dropped, Elliott didn't start, Ball barely gets on the bench, Daniels, dropped. Whilst getting rid of deadwood, we've brought in good players such as Adams, Bailey and Moussa, with the possibility of more this month!

 

[Evans1883]

Well, I have a few spare minutes this morning before I get on with that thing I call "a life", so I'll quickly demolish this.

1) It's not bufoonery to suggest that I'd prefer Robins to Thorn - even the rest of your post and your general outlook support this
2) the three stats about his record ignore the ridiculously bad squad he has to work with last season. Even your ranting about our current squad doesn't reflect the the fact it's far better than last year's, as AT had no support from the board at all last season.
3) I have not seen any evidence of the so-called "relaxed" atmosphere when AT was manager, just hearsay and conjecture - then again, that's the only 'evidence' you can present on anything - nor have i see any ex-pros commenting on it
4) Baker actually said he wanted AT to get more time and was disappointing he was sacked.

The unfairness of AT's sacking was borne out by the out of court settlement he won against CCFC for unfair dismissal.

What I liked most about him was the dignity he showed when the club was falling apart due to off-field mismanagement and lack of support for the playing squad.

The rest of your criticisms of me have been well-worn. King is English, and at the time of commenting, we had such a dearth of fit strikers that he could have squeezed into the squad on form. ACL locking CCFC out of the Ricoh would be a kick up the backside for SISU to play ball - not a long term solution but enough to get them playing fair. If AT ever did come back and work his magic again, I'd applaud from the rooftops.

Also, if we win the JPT and/or get promoted, a lot of the credit will be due to AT. The upturn in our fortunes began when he took over. Robins represents continuity rather than change. In years to come, fans will look back fondly on the 'Thorn-Robins era'.

Has to be the most ridiculous post on here for a long time,are you simple, Andy thorn was
1.tactically inept.
2.lacked motivation
3. By all accounts had a training regime fit for a junior school.
4. Worst manager in our history.
5. Is a fecking scout

 

[dongonzalos]

Has to be the most ridiculous post on here for a long time,are you simple, Andy thorn was
1.tactically inept.
2.lacked motivation
3. By all accounts had a training regime fit for a junior school.
4. Worst manager in our history.
5. Is a fecking scout

A scout and a former professional footballer

I find it very bizzare when people seem to have the idea that this means you can't be a manager.

Not sure how you know what his motivation was like.

The fitness is pure rumour mainly in here.

In fact I think the only point you can make us tactically inept.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

No they aren't. You know that's bollocks.

Don't post any more crap abotu "league one average rent" as that's a load of crap too, as you well know.

The only crap is the suggestion from you that 1.3 million is a fair rent

 

[rupert_bear]

To compare Mark Robins with Jimmy Hill is just plain stupid, the division maybe the same and the hope too but the circumstances are miles apart. I hope in 3 years time i can say yes Robins is akin to Hill but not yet.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Has to be the most ridiculous post on here for a long time,are you simple, Andy thorn was
1.tactically inept.
2.lacked motivation
3. By all accounts had a training regime fit for a junior school.
4. Worst manager in our history.
5. Is a fecking scout

Harsh - junior school pupils are expected to turn up on time.

 

[Greggs]

Got there before me. As much as our fans love him, they can't spell his fooking name.

I still wish Andy Thorn had been given more time.

Because its easier to spell?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

A scout and a former professional footballer

I find it very bizzare when people seem to have the idea that this means you can't be a manager.

Not sure how you know what his motivation was like.

The fitness is pure rumour mainly in here.

In fact I think the only point you can make us tactically inept.

Fitness being a rumour? No, the team looks far fitter and can perform for 90m, we concede less late goals whilst scoring late goals... Players like Fleck look like they've lost weight. Cody came back from preseason unfit, but he wasn't fit even before MR came in...

You can tell he can't be a great motivator, we dropped all of our leads when he was manager, same with Shaw, except we only scored first once!

I don't agree with people saying he's a scout, so won't be any good, McDermott of Reading was a scout, and more bizarrely, Nigel Adkins of S'hampton was a physio at Scunny before he took that job! - this and his inept tactics is all I agree with you at the min.

I wouldn't even say his sacking was unfair, when you drop a 2-0 lead to a managerless Bury, you know something is wrong, when he got sacked, I was relieved, I defended him, thought he should've got a chance, 2 draws in our first 2 wasn't BAD, but dropping 2 points v Bury was it for me, clear he hadn't learnt his lessons.

Why wait 8-10 games to see if he can turn it around? After his 3 games and 4 games under Shaw might cost us the season! MR had to struggle against factors from the 'old regime' for 5-6 games (at least) after their tenure.

Only good thing Thorn did was try the diamond - but because he's a shit manger, it didn't work, I blame the manager over the system.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

....

I still wish Andy Thorn had been given more time.

Really..?. even with Mark Robins very obvious contribution to the astounding recovery of our beloved club... confirmed with club record number of consecutive away wins.. its an interesting take.. not one I agree with.... why?

 

[Grendel]

A scout and a former professional footballer

I find it very bizzare when people seem to have the idea that this means you can't be a manager.

Not sure how you know what his motivation was like.

The fitness is pure rumour mainly in here.

In fact I think the only point you can make us tactically inept.

Brian Roberts an ex professional and still in and around the club said there was a lethargy when thorn was in charge. Why would he lie on a national radio station?

 

[dongonzalos]

Brian Roberts an ex professional and still in and around the club said there was a lethargy when thorn was in charge. Why would he lie on a national radio station?

An ex player from a very long time ago, said he spoke to someone in the know and there was a lethargy.

AT came out and attacked SISU, if it was true they would have come out with it.
Also there would be no settlement for unfair dismissal.
Also surely players with a grievance would have said something by now.

Why the wall of silence?

Bar rumour on here and Harry speaking to someone in the know?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

An ex player from a very long time ago, said he spoke to someone in the know and there was a lethargy.

AT came out and attacked SISU, if it was true they would have come out with it.
Also there would be no settlement for unfair dismissal.
Also surely players with a grievance would have said something by now.

Why the wall of silence?

Bar rumour on here and Harry speaking to someone in the know?

Numerous players have commented on the difference in the intensity under both managers. SISU kept quiet even when the BBC probed them last year so why they'd make an exception for an incompetent ex employee is beyond me.

 

[Grendel]

An ex player from a very long time ago, said he spoke to someone in the know and there was a lethargy.

AT came out and attacked SISU, if it was true they would have come out with it.
Also there would be no settlement for unfair dismissal.
Also surely players with a grievance would have said something by now.

Why the wall of silence?

Bar rumour on here and Harry speaking to someone in the know?

How go you know what thorn received in settlement. Could have been a months pay.

Answer the question do you think Roberts lied on national radio?

 

[CJparker]

aaah, just got in from my interesting life, see that the keyboard warriors have had a fun Saturday abusing me and insulting me, as expected though no facts or counter-arguments, just ridicule and name calling.

Are the posters in this thread aware that a "discussion" involves rebuttal of someone's points by facts, argument and logic, not insults and hearsay. You can't win an argument by insulting people as if that answers everything.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

aaah, just got in from my interesting life, see that the keyboard warriors have had a fun Saturday abusing me and insulting me, as expected though no facts or counter-arguments, just ridicule and name calling.

Are the posters in this thread aware that a "discussion" involves rebuttal of someone's points by facts, argument and logic, not insults and hearsay. You can't win an argument by insulting people as if that answers everything.

Hi CJP... Im not guilty I hope as charged?... my response to you has data and was meaning to promote debate no more...post 45?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

aaah, just got in from my interesting life, see that the keyboard warriors have had a fun Saturday abusing me and insulting me, as expected though no facts or counter-arguments, just ridicule and name calling.

Are the posters in this thread aware that a "discussion" involves rebuttal of someone's points by facts, argument and logic, not insults and hearsay. You can't win an argument by insulting people as if that answers everything.

Wow, 'interesting' life, so interesting you feel the need to play the WUM role.

There are no facts to say Thorn was ever a success for CCFC.

I have stated facts, you've ignored them, as always.

 

[dongonzalos]

How go you know what thorn received in settlement. Could have been a months pay.

Answer the question do you think Roberts lied on national radio?

I agree it could have been just that.

However if all the rumours about drink, cancelling training etc were true.

SISU don't give away a penny unnecessarily, surely they would have told him to do one.

Also as we have seen they know how to play the media and I don't think they would let AT get away with attacking them if that us true.

No from what I have heard about Harry I don't think he lied. He has said the RUMOUR he has heard.

Why have SISU not defended themselves after AT attacked them. Why has no player coach or ex player or coach come out and said what happened?

 

[CJparker]

Wow, 'interesting' life, so interesting you feel the need to play the WUM role.

There are no facts to say Thorn was ever a success for CCFC.

I have stated facts, you've ignored them, as always.

Let's face it, every City fan I knew expected us to go down before Boothroyd was sacked even. We knew we were going down before last season began. AT did a magnificent job of steadying a sinking ship, and got jack all support for it. That's the fact buddy, and you can't argue against it. Why not just log off?

 

[CJparker]

Really..?. even with Mark Robins very obvious contribution to the astounding recovery of our beloved club... confirmed with club record number of consecutive away wins.. its an interesting take.. not one I agree with.... why?

Thanks for drawing my attention to this post KP....the tragedy (oen of them) of AT's sacking is that we'll never know how he;d have performed in this division if he'd been given time. MR has done great yes, but as noted he has got maybe the biggest (best?) squad in the division. I am behind him 100%, and will continue to be so when we hit our first bad patch and the fickle bandwagon jumpers start to call for his head.

 

[CJparker]

It is going to be hard for anyone to take any point that you ever make seriously going forward after this load of utter nonsense. You will never get those minutes spent typing that dross back. To suggest AT will be due any credit for any success that we might accomplish this season, or that he might come back is utter nonsense. The man had dignity and loyalty to the club but he had no choice. He hasn't worked since he left the club and a League 2 side won't even take a punt on him now. What does that suggest? He should stick to scouting and let football managers manage football teams. MR has come in, a real football manager and he looks to be the best we have had in the last 20 years. He has rejuvinated and inspired a team destined for relegation (under AT / RS) and we now look forward thinking we can win almost every game. Could we have scored two injury time goals under AT? Lose 2 injury time goals maybe, but that belief is Mark Robins, and it's belief that wins teams games. The never give up attitude that AT could not instill in the team.

You're entitled to your opinion, it is however nonsense and AT's record in charge speaks for itself. MARK ROBINS' SKY BLUE ARMY

Try keeping a team up with no support from the board and half a squad. He did fantastically to get us as many points as he did last season. I am behind MR 100%, but I thought AT was great for this club and built the squad that is doing so well now.

 

[CJparker]

Looks like the comedy circuit may not be so promising after all CJ.

On a serious note Grendel, I do find it interesting how we have such contrasting views of the same situation. You seem completely merciless towards any "failure" and anything that is not the best for CCFC is worthless and wrong in your view? What do you do as a job, asset stripping for hedge funds?

Do you have anything personal against AT? From the vitriol in your posts, some would think so.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Thanks for drawing my attention to this post KP....the tragedy (oen of them) of AT's sacking is that we'll never know how he;d have performed in this division if he'd been given time. MR has done great yes, but as noted he has got maybe the biggest (best?) squad in the division. I am behind him 100%, and will continue to be so when we hit our first bad patch and the fickle bandwagon jumpers start to call for his head.

You are correct.. we will never know... and I guess its a hypothetical debate... and one which to be honest I'm not certain why continues.
In MR we trust.

 

[Grendel]

aaah, just got in from my interesting life, see that the keyboard warriors have had a fun Saturday abusing me and insulting me, as expected though no facts or counter-arguments, just ridicule and name calling.

Are the posters in this thread aware that a "discussion" involves rebuttal of someone's points by facts, argument and logic, not insults and hearsay. You can't win an argument by insulting people as if that answers everything.

Odd CJ according up you I would be the one embarrassed as the majority supported your view. You clearly missed the post where I quoted statistics about his management record so here we go again;

Worst record since 1917 points per game
Worst record since 1917 as % win ratios
2 away wins in his entire management career
Surrendered numerous points during the last 10 minutes of games
Lowest league position in half a century

All these are facts so I challenge you. Come with some statistics of your own (actual statistics) that prove your claim he was not the worst manager since David Lloyd George was prime minister.

Prove it.

 

[CJparker]

Odd CJ according up you I would be the one embarrassed as the majority supported your view. You clearly missed the post where I quoted statistics about his management record so here we go again;

Worst record since 1917 points per game
Worst record since 1917 as % win ratios
2 away wins in his entire management career
Surrendered numerous points during the last 10 minutes of games
Lowest league position in half a century

All these are facts so I challenge you. Come with some statistics of your own (actual statistics) that prove your claim he was not the worst manager since David Lloyd George was prime minister.

Prove it.

Oh wow, thank you...up until now I really didn't realise that last season was terrible and we got relegaed. Thank you for pointing this out to me.

I agree with your stats - but how to interperet them?

That AT was a bad manager? Not in my opinion; as mentioned above we all knew that 2011/12 would be a relegation season, even before Boothroyd was sacked. Our useless owners made it impossible to be anything other than that. But what I saw last season was AT manfully stepping into the breach, steadying a sinking ship (which was sinking already - nothing to do with him).

I think our record least season without AT would have been worse than it actually was. It's counterfactual so no way to prove it.

No response on why you hate AT more than life itself?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Thanks for drawing my attention to this post KP....the tragedy (oen of them) of AT's sacking is that we'll never know how he;d have performed in this division if he'd been given time. MR has done great yes, but as noted he has got maybe the biggest (best?) squad in the division. I am behind him 100%, and will continue to be so when we hit our first bad patch and the fickle bandwagon jumpers start to call for his head.

We've got the best squad now because of the additions of Bailey and Moussa, did Thorn sign them?

The first 3 games hardly proved he had changed and was now ready to take CCFC to new levels! We played poorly in all 3 games, got dominated in possession in all the games. His assistant failed dramatically as well, them 7 games left deep scares on our season, it took a few games for MR to impose himself and his ideas on the team.

Say what you like, but there are visible, drastic improvements to CCFC since MR has took over. Question is CJ, how long would you give him? If we'd sacked him say December time, I'm sure you'd say 'give him Jan window to improve the squad', where do you draw the line CJ? We have a successful manager now so to complain, or even question the decision to sack Thorn is ludicrous is my book.

You say we have the best squad, possibly XI in the division, but under Thorn, the likes of, Cody, Ball, Brown, Hussey started, all of which MR hasn't started at all, Ball barely gets on the bench (ROD is ahead of him!), Brown got recalled, Kilbane was captain, he's now retired - because he weren't good enough to get on the bench, Malaga got sent to Nuneaton, probably will end up like Hussey who got released, with a host of L1 clubs interested he went to AFC Wimbledon :facepalm: did I miss anyone else? As well as this, you have Edj (brought by AT, but not started!) Adams, Bailey, Moussa being brought in by MR. Baker has come back like a new signing, as has Sheff, Fleck looks 3x better under MR than at the start of the new, revolutionary regime. All in all, this team is the best because MR has made it that way! AT deserves no credit.

We have the best squad in the division because of MR, not AT.

 

[CJparker]

Short answer to you question posed in the middle there - I was calling for AT to be given at least five years in charge, including whether he took us into League 2 or not. I expect we'd have been doing well this season. From my reading of your post, you think that without Bailey and Moussa we'd be struggling? For the record, I don't think so.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You would've kept him if we'd got relegated to League 2-why?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Oh wow, thank you...up until now I really didn't realise that last season was terrible and we got relegaed. Thank you for pointing this out to me.

I agree with your stats - but how to interperet them?

That AT was a bad manager? Not in my opinion; as mentioned above we all knew that 2011/12 would be a relegation season, even before Boothroyd was sacked. Our useless owners made it impossible to be anything other than that. But what I saw last season was AT manfully stepping into the breach, steadying a sinking ship (which was sinking already - nothing to do with him).

I think our record least season without AT would have been worse than it actually was. It's counterfactual so no way to prove it.

No response on why you hate AT more than life itself?

You talk of facts, but where is any single scrap of evidence to suggest this is the case?

We had so many chances to get out of the relegation it is unreal! We got relegated because our team was unfit, all of us knew that (perhaps, with the exception of you), key games like Brizzle City away you could see the players were simply unfit, that game, the players looked fecked after 55m! You want evidence of unfitness? Look at how many points we dropped in the last 10m, if we could hold a bloody lead, we would've stayed up comfortably.

Thorn has had some if the most contradicting tactics I have seen. For example, we're supposed to be a possession based side, but dogmatically, even when we had a free man back, would throw it forward to Platt, who lost possession far too often! On Platt, we're supposed to be a passing side, but hoofed it up to fecking Platt too much, again, we lost possession too many times because of this. That's just to start.

 

[Johnnythespider]

don't worry paxman it's not as good as Godzilla vs Mothra

Jimmy Hill v Mark Robins? What!

 

[Grendel]

Try keeping a team up with no support from the board and half a squad. He did fantastically to get us as many points as he did last season. I am behind MR 100%, but I thought AT was great for this club and built the squad that is doing so well now.

Utter bilge. Sorry but this is beyond a joke. Thorn did nothing for this club. Poor fitness, disastrous tactics, no collective spirit. Robins took over a dejected squad without motivation.

Thorn was not capable of being a manager. Question - and answer this one - in a typical season do you think a team managed by robins would get 10 more points than a team managed by thorn?

I can't stomach thorn for several reasons. I can't stomach Coleman for the same reasons. Oddly of course the two of them and ranson are best buddies. How odd.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Short answer to you question posed in the middle there - I was calling for AT to be given at least five years in charge, including whether he took us into League 2 or not. I expect we'd have been doing well this season. From my reading of your post, you think that without Bailey and Moussa we'd be struggling? For the record, I don't think so.

At least 5 years!? Wow, you never fail to amaze! You took it even further by saying even if he had took us to L2, are you sure you support CCFC, if ANY manager takes us to fucking L2 I want him hung, drawn and fucking quartered! (Sarcasm obviously...)

You are so naive it's unreal, there is nothing to suggest Thorn had the minerals to do well! We had dropped every lead we had under him and embarrassingly drawn 2-2 to Bury! Shaw, who used, by and large, the same tactics Thorn used, got screwed over by Stevenage 2-1, Crewe 1-0, Tranmere 2-0 and Shrewsbury 4 fucking 1! We were a fucking laughing stock of the football league under these clowns!* Unbelievable comments from you yet again!

*It hurts to insult Shaw like that, I adored him as a footballer, legend of CCFC, gave 100% but he really fucked CCFC over this season.

How many games (CCFC, not Villa or Incester like) do you go to btw? Moussa and Bailey our influential players in the midfield that dominates other teams! They are great signings for L1 and I look forward to seeing them play. I'm a fan of Barton, but he hasn't earned the right to play... Bailey, Jennings and Thomas are good options for the midfield.

 

[CJparker]

Utter bilge. Sorry but this is beyond a joke. Thorn did nothing for this club. Poor fitness, disastrous tactics, no collective spirit. Robins took over a dejected squad without motivation.

Thorn was not capable of being a manager. Question - and answer this one - in a typical season do you think a team managed by robins would get 10 more points than a team managed by thorn?

I can't stomach thorn for several reasons. I can't stomach Coleman for the same reasons. Oddly of course the two of them and ranson are best buddies. How odd.

Once again you insult me without doing anything to rebut what I have written. It's not utter bilge that AT has no budget at all - with no players he had no chance, and we all knew it. Interesting you never quote your stats when SISU's record is up for debate....

I think AT was an extraordinarlily able manager - I do not see any reason why he couldn't have done as well as AT this season. Remember, MR didn't win his first 3 games this season either.

So, did AT shag your mum as well as your wife ,or just one of them? Or are they the same person??

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Once again you insult me without doing anything to rebut what I have written. It's not utter bilge that AT has no budget at all - with no players he had no chance, and we all knew it. Interesting you never quote your stats when SISU's record is up for debate....

I think AT was an extraordinarlily able manager - I do not see any reason why he couldn't have done as well as AT this season. Remember, MR didn't win his first 3 games this season either.

So, did AT shag your mum as well as your wife ,or just one of them? Or are they the same person??

I repeat-if Thorn had taken us into the bottom tier, why would he still deserve to keep his job?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Once again you insult me without doing anything to rebut what I have written. It's not utter bilge that AT has no budget at all - with no players he had no chance, and we all knew it. Interesting you never quote your stats when SISU's record is up for debate....

I think AT was an extraordinarlily able manager - I do not see any reason why he couldn't have done as well as AT this season. Remember, MR didn't win his first 3 games this season either.

So, did AT shag your mum as well as your wife ,or just one of them? Or are they the same person??

Rebut this, I did mention this earlier, but you ignored it.

If this was the case, why hasn't Thorn got a new job in football, despite applying for numerous posts, for numerous jobs, including L2 sides, as well as L1 sides!?