ACL and the City Council announcement (8 Viewers)

[RoboCCFC90]

The future for Coventry City Football Club now rests on ACL as well as SISU, if ACL don't want to compromise on the rent and SISU decide the rent is to high and wanna walk away then things will look bleak however I hope with ACL pretty much at a fresh they will look to lower the rent this may yet end up helping SISU achieve a lower rent

 

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[Davo]

This is now the million dollar question - SISU's gameplan of getting the Arena is now sunk so what do they do next? Do they liquidate the club? Unlikely as they wouldn't get much back and to do so would simply be an act of spitefulness. They may decide to stay and run the club on a commercial footing - again unlikely as they have already put a huge amount in for no return which leave them selling the club for a sensible amount, not a Pound but more than liquidating would get them but a lot less than there

That's the part that worries me, "unlikely". So it's not completely unfeasible they may well turn out to be spiteful and do just this. We all have heard Joy is supposed to be a right hard bitch when it comes to business, who's to say she won't think "bollocks to them", for want of a better phrase

 

[ashbyjan]

I'm glad you mentioned them putting in a huge amount. They have, many don't believe it for some reason.

To me personally (not a Trust view) it is sad that SISU have put millions in and got nowhere with it - seems if the same amount had been spent more wisely we could be a much healthier and more successful club.

 

[covcity4life]

Pretty much what Robccfc said.

ACL go bust if 'we' Sisu don't pay rent in full. Council don't want this.
Now ACL can't go bust but can still offer lowered rent?
As I say, I'm literally guessing, but it gives ACL the option to lower the rent and stay in business, a business which is co owned by the Council themselves.

Win win for the council. A company they co own stay in business, the city keeps the football club.

Always look on the bright side I say.

let us hope

hopefully the recent buzz has shown sisu that a prosperous club can bring back the fans

hopefully good attendences for tranmere and oldham will influence sisu to agree rent

 

[ashbyjan]

That's the part that worries me, "unlikely". So it's not completely unfeasible they may well turn out to be spiteful and do just this. We all have heard Joy is supposed to be a right hard bitch when it comes to business, who's to say she won't think "bollocks to them", for want of a better phrase

At the end of the day she will do what gets her and her investors most money. Liquidating would get only the ARVO money which is £1m or so whilst a sale to a new owner might get her more - obvioulsy she could be spiteful but I doubt she has made her millions by allowing sentiment to overrule pragmatism.

 

[torchomatic]

A blinder? Well, it certainly protects ACL. It's all very well saying to SISU "OK, now pay up". What if they can't afford to? What if the cupboard is bare? The club will have to be liquidated and then everyone loses.

You have to say the council have played a blinder here. They've called sisu's bluff by removing the threat of acl going bust and put the ball firmly in Sisu's court - pay up what you owe, come to a sensible rent agreement or liquidate.

 

[SkyBlueScottie]

With the statement by Mutton I agree with Hill. This gives ACL and SISU the opportunity to sit down and have a sensible discussion about the rent figure which to help the club needs to be lower than whats currently on offer.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes, it's a weird one If SISU do want out who on earth is going to buy into a club when the stadia they play in is unaffordable?

More to the point who out there wants to deal with a firm which used threats of moving the club, combined with violating a legally binding contract, as negotiating tools?

 

[skyblusam]

The way i see it is the council has bailed out acl and the reason being is that they must of been heading for admin. Thats all rosey i guess but not when i think back a few weeks and was reading in the paper that a few hundred council workers will be axed due to cutbacks.Hows that work? But sisu rearly need to get around the table now and agree a fair rent as i cant see this being able to drag on much longer.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

A blinder? Well, it certainly protects ACL. It's all very well saying to SISU "OK, now pay up". What if they can't afford to? What if the cupboard is bare? The club will have to be liquidated and then everyone loses.

Then the man responsible is Tim Fisher for starting off this fiasco.

 

[Sky Blues]

The club is essentially in admin though-SISU have long wanted out and need to find a willing buyer. All 'debt' is owed to SISU investors so there would be zero point in placing the club in administration. Involvement in the ground makes the club a lot more appealing to buyers and is likely at the heart of withholding the rent.

I guess with the 'make a quick buck by distressing ACL & buying it out' option removed, there might be a couple of million pounds to be saved by Sisu winding up CCFC. They may decide they don't want to incur further losses if the best chance of a return is now to get the club back into the Premier League...

 

[ashbyjan]

A blinder? Well, it certainly protects ACL. It's all very well saying to SISU "OK, now pay up". What if they can't afford to? What if the cupboard is bare? The club will have to be liquidated and then everyone loses.

They certainly can afford to - even if you assume the rent in this years budget by Fisher was the £200k he is always talking about well the cup games against Spurs and Arsenal would have brought in £1/2 million above anything that was budgeted for. It is not going to be a case of can't afford it but don't want to afford it. It should bring whole rent issue to a head now SISU's big stick has been taken away. So get round the table and sort it out like adults for the good of all concerned.

 

[SkyBlueScottie]

Masterstroke by all those involved, wonderful news for the City of Coventry, ACL and the future of CCFC, thats assuming the owners really want to Cov City football club. This now removes all and any excuse for SISU not to agree the very generous offer ACL has made to them.

Would you care to enlighten us to the details contained in this generous offer?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I guess with the 'make a quick buck by distressing ACL & buying it out' option removed, there might be a couple of million pounds to be saved by Sisu winding up CCFC. They may decide they don't want to incur further losses if the best chance of a return is now to get the club back into the Premier League...

Their best chance of recouping money is still from a sale which sees someone having to give them tens of millions. The structure of the club is such that it is owned by a holding company, which is itself owned by a holding company, and it is this company which SISU put the money in. Similar to the Rangers situation whereby the holding company was liquidated but the club itself was left intact (and hence retained all its previous honours).

 

[Evans1883]

Can somebody just clarify a thing or two.
1.the council now own the ground and their is zero mortgage left.
2.if 1 is true then why can they not give us cheap as chips rent and give the football club all profits from matches and let ACL profit from everything non football.
3. 2 being the case if sisu pay up arrears in full first

 

[RoboCCFC90]

The council have done what's needed to protect the stadium, which is the correct thing to do for the city of Coventry although in the short term not for CCFC if a rent cant be agreed.I personally didn't think they had it in them but the people to blame are Sisu for the initial oversight with the rent and Fisher for behaving like a clown by forcing ACL to the brink.

Guessing Timmy won't be here much longer and this could pontentialy see new ownership as sisu look for a exit.

I really hope you are not saying the fans are to blame?

 

[stupot07]

This is now the million dollar question - SISU's gameplan of getting the Arena is now sunk so what do they do next? Do they liquidate the club? Unlikely as they wouldn't get much back and to do so would simply be an act of spitefulness. They may decide to stay and run the club on a commercial footing - again unlikely as they have already put a huge amount in for no return which leave them selling the club for a sensible amount, not a Pound but more than liquidating would get them but a lot less than the amount they have invested. Club would be of interest to people especially to anyine willing to work in partnership with ACL rather than against it. There i plenty of scope for joint development around the Arena which would be attractive to investors.

Sorry jan but this is speculation, we have no proof that this is their end game. Your scaremongering.

 

[ashbyjan]

Their best chance of recouping money is still from a sale which sees someone having to give them tens of millions. The structure of the club is such that it is owned by a holding company, which is itself owned by a holding company, and it is this company which SISU put the money in. Similar to the Rangers situation whereby the holding company was liquidated but the club itself was left intact (and hence retained all its previous honours).

I think its this aspect that I think has changed - SISU will now be more willing to look at offers that whilst still meaning they lose a lot of money whats their alternative? Keep putting more money in month after month with no hope of a return? I think this will allow someone to pick club up for a modest sum allowing investment in team and working with ACL in partnership. Maybe thats utopian but long term this could be best for all.

 

[stupot07]

Can somebody just clarify a thing or two.
1.the council now own the ground and their is zero mortgage left.
2.if 1 is true then why can they not give us cheap as chips rent and give the football club all profits from matches and let ACL profit from everything non football.
3. 2 being the case if sisu pay up arrears in full first

the council have always owned the ground, ACL took a loan out to pay the council £20m for a 50 year lease. This paid the council back for the money they spent on the building the stadium.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Can somebody just clarify a thing or two.
1.the council now own the ground and their is zero mortgage left.
2.if 1 is true then why can they not give us cheap as chips rent and give the football club all profits from matches and let ACL profit from everything non football.
3. 2 being the case if sisu pay up arrears in full first

1. No-as ever the council has its 50% share in ACL, which runs the Ricoh on behalf of Compass.
2. See 1.
3. See 1.

Basically ACL presumably fell behind on its mortgage payments to Yorkshire Bank in some part due to the club's rent withholding. The council has stepped up to meet the arrears and has also loaned ACL money to safeguard it against the club pulling such tricks again; and has also charged interest on it which will ultimately see a profit for taxpayers.

 

[ashbyjan]

Sorry jan but this is speculation, we have no proof that this is their end game. Your scaremongering.

WAS their end game - not scaremongering at all. Its now history so now settling rent sensibly can be got on with.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think its this aspect that I think has changed - SISU will now be more willing to look at offers that whilst still meaning they lose a lot of money whats their alternative? Keep putting more money in month after month with no hope of a return? I think this will allow someone to pick club up for a modest sum allowing investment in team and working with ACL in partnership. Maybe thats utopian but long term this could be best for all.

Involvement in the Ricoh would've been their trump card in securing a get out. They are now truly in a dead-end situation with regard to this and should now look as hard as they can for new ownership and be prepared to take a hit in the process.

 

[Evans1883]

Can somebody then tell me how this can possibly be good for ccfc

 

[Danceswithhorses]

Can somebody just clarify a thing or two.
1.the council now own the ground and their is zero mortgage left.
2.if 1 is true then why can they not give us cheap as chips rent and give the football club all profits from matches and let ACL profit from everything non football.
3. 2 being the case if sisu pay up arrears in full first

Instead of owing money to Yorkshire Bank, basically CovCityCouncil (Cov CC) have paid off this mortgage
Now, ACL now owe money to Cov CC...in essence Cov CC are the new 'bank' .

 

[hill83]

Can somebody then tell me how this can possibly be good for ccfc

I had a theory earlier in this thread but can't be arsed to type it out again.
Or even copy and paste it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

the council have always owned the ground, ACL took a loan out to pay the council £20m for a 50 year lease. This paid the council back for the money they spent on the building the stadium.

The council has never owned the ground though? Always been a 50:50 shareholding in ACL with the Higgs.

 

[ashbyjan]

1. No-as ever the council has its 50% share in ACL, which runs the Ricoh on behalf of Compass.
2. See 1.
3. See 1.

Basically ACL presumably fell behind on its mortgage payments to Yorkshire Bank in some part due to the club's rent withholding. The council has stepped up to meet the arrears and has also loaned ACL money to safeguard it against the club pulling such tricks again; and has also charged interest on it which will ultimately see a profit for taxpayers.

As we understand it ACL never fell behind in payments to Yorkshire bank but whilst rent was being with held value of stadium was deemed to be falling and loan to value would have been affected. This meant a third party, such as an interested hedgefund, could have bought the loan off Yorkshire Bank and then clubbed ACL with it. Now this option has been taken away by this new arrangement. The cash flow is now much better as the terms of the loan are more favourable for ACL - longer term and lower rate - but it still needs income to service this loan so the club will still have to pay rent.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Can somebody then tell me how this can possibly be good for ccfc

With the money that was owed by ACL to Yorkshire Bank being paid by the Council it could lead the way to ACL being more leniant on the rent..

But I am sure the council would have discussed that at some length

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

As we understand it ACL never fell behind in payments to Yorkshire bank but whilst rent was being with held value of stadium was deemed to be falling and loan to value would have been affected. This meant a third party, such as an interested hedgefund, could have bought the loan off Yorkshire Bank and then clubbed ACL with it. Now this option has been taken away by this new arrangement. The cash flow is now much better as the terms of the loan are more favourable for ACL - longer term and lower rate - but it still needs income to service this loan so the club will still have to pay rent.

Cheers for clearing that up Jan

 

[shropshirecov]

Loads of conflicts of interests here. One being, Socialist councillors with a hatred for 'Mayfair based hedge funds' would happily see the club die if it meant one in the eye for a nasty big business.

If I were a council tax payer in Coventry (i'm not) I'd be asking my local councillor some questions.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Loads of conflicts of interests here. One being, Socialist councillors with a hatred for 'Mayfair based hedge funds' would happily see the club die if it meant one in the eye for a nasty big business.

If I were a council tax payer in Coventry (i'm not) I'd be asking my local councillor some questions.

If the council were in any way contributors to the club's downfall they would never be re-elected; so your idea is nonsense on this basis alone.

 

[ashbyjan]

Loads of conflicts of interests here. One being, Socialist councillors with a hatred for 'Mayfair based hedge funds' would happily see the club die if it meant one in the eye for a nasty big business.

If I were a council tax payer in Coventry (i'm not) I'd be asking my local councillor some questions.

Vote of council was unanimous - no split along any party lines. This was not Reds against evil capitalists this was a council (for once maybe) acting united on behalf of the citizens of Cov

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

This doesn't change the negotiation largely. It just removes the likelihood of ACL entering administration as a function of SISU's unlawful actions. Both sides are still at the table.

After all, that's not what Fisher wanted, is it? Is it?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

This doesn't change the negotiation largely. It just removes the likelihood of ACL entering administration as a function of SISU's unlawful actions. Both sides are still at the table.

After all, that's not what Fisher wanted, is it? Is it?

Do you think SISU could have planned that this may happen?

 

[Davo]

As we understand it ACL never fell behind in payments to Yorkshire bank but whilst rent was being with held value of stadium was deemed to be falling and loan to value would have been affected. This meant a third party, such as an interested hedgefund, could have bought the loan off Yorkshire Bank and then clubbed ACL with it. Now this option has been taken away by this new arrangement. The cash flow is now much better as the terms of the loan are more favourable for ACL - longer term and lower rate - but it still needs income to service this loan so the club will still have to pay rent.

and if the club doesn't pay, say worst case scenario is liquidated, ACL could themselves fall behind on payments and the council tax payers have to pick up the bill of the 14 loan. Nice one!

Too many negative outcomes of this. Seems a bad move to me