Midlands Today Last Night (14 Viewers)

[torchomatic]

The central issue is CCFC pay too much rent and always have. ACL have now been propped up with taxpayers money and say they can survive without the club. Some say that's a piece of piss and some (like me) think they are bluffing. You talk of reasoned argument and then end your post with Mayfair Kerbcrawlers United. :claping hands:

I love it when Grendel, Torch, Taylor and BRR make up something and then have an argument with anyone who shows them its wrong. They create an aunt sally which tales people's attention and energy away from the central issue. All they want to do is deflect any reasoned argument away from the simple truths which are that Seppala and Fisher need to get real and do what they said they wanted to do which is to work out some kind of deal with ACL that will allow everyone to get on with supporting a football team that is Coventry City Football Club and not the Mayfair Kerbcrawlers United.

 

---

[BackRoomRummermill]

I love it when Grendel, Torch, Taylor and BRR make up something and then have an argument with anyone who shows them its wrong. They create an aunt sally which tales people's attention and energy away from the central issue. All they want to do is deflect any reasoned argument away from the simple truths which are that Seppala and Fisher need to get real and do what they said they wanted to do which is to work out some kind of deal with ACL that will allow everyone to get on with supporting a football team that is Coventry City Football Club and not the Mayfair Kerbcrawlers United.

Totally agree with what you have said and it will happen sooner rather than later, ACL have no choice if they want to survive as the CURRENT organisation. They need to talk and SISU need to talk and meet half way.

What I dont agree with is people putting half the facts down and making the rest up trying to have a go at SISU.

Has anyone on here got acces to the current SISU contract agreement with ACL regarding the rent = No.
Has anyone on here got the currnet finacial situation at ACL = No
Has anyone on here got the current financial or strategy situation at SISU =No

Like I said I am just being realistic given the FACTS which are there to be seen. I am totally impartial to SISU , some churlish people think that SISU have been sent to ruin CCFC and see no positives. Well in the real world SISU need to make CCFC a success to realise thier investment and plenty of heads will roll if this does not happen.


I have not made anything up it is indeed on ACL own site and the forward orders look a little grim to me. Someone was on about a lesuire park in Coventry on the carpark. or even yet another Hotel (this speculation and if did happen it would turn a white elephant into a herd of white elephants )

 

[valiant15]

Thing is,when the rent is sorted,this lot will be moaning about the price of the pies or the loo's are to cold. Why werent you all moaning about the rent last season or the season before etc? Some of them were the most ardent critics of Richardson but happily sit back and watch an out of town hedge fund take us to new depths of failure. Richardson started the rot,sisu have finished it and you lot are on the front row clapping like seals. Hypocrites.

 

[sky blue john]

The central issue is CCFC pay too much rent and always have. ACL have now been propped up with taxpayers money and say they can survive without the club. Some say that's a piece of piss and some (like me) think they are bluffing. :

So what is the difference between sisu's bluff also of moving the ccfc to another stadium. Its business get over it.
Your argument that the rent is to high yes we all agree on !!!
But the counsel and Acl were forced into a corner by Sisu and had to react.
The solution they have come up with means there should be room for further negotiation down from the already offered 400k.
If Sisu are not prepared to come to the negotiating table now it will just follow up lie after lie that we are fed !!!

 

[Houchens Head]

The central issue is CCFC pay too much rent and always have. ACL have now been propped up with taxpayers money and say they can survive without the club. Some say that's a piece of piss and some (like me) think they are bluffing. You talk of reasoned argument and then end your post with Mayfair Kerbcrawlers United. :claping hands:

Top team! I supported them for years!

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

The central issue is CCFC pay too much rent and always have. ACL have now been propped up with taxpayers money and say they can survive without the club. Some say that's a piece of piss and some (like me) think they are bluffing. You talk of reasoned argument and then end your post with Mayfair Kerbcrawlers United. :claping hands:

Propped up, Torchy? You mean they've been assisted in surviving a situation whereby they were being clearly and unlawfully distressed by a sitting tenant. Businesses are 'propped up' against normal trading circumstances. This situation is one in which one party is breaking the terms of their tenancy and using this to lever advantage.

And we don't need to see the terms of the agreement. We know they were seen in court, who found in ACL's favour, with SISU not even turning up to offer defence.

You need to do a bit better than this chaps

 

[MichaelCCFC]

Grendel - I've said earlier in this thread that the acl/council position is easy to understand but I don't see what sisu do next. What's your view?

 

[cloughie]

Surely Sally should have foreseen the events that led to the cancelation.

I would have thought that you would have grasped that was a joke KD

 

[hopesprings]

Anyone see the piece on City, ACL and the Ricoh last night? The head of ACL Jackie Whatshername said:

"Clearly it's easier if the Sky Blues are here but we have a robust* business....we had the Olympics** in the City, we have got Bruce Springsteen*** in June, we have got Muse**** playing here in May. We are really busy."

*Thanks to Coventry City Council
**Once in a lifetime event
***One off
****Another one off

Are ACL seriously saying they could manage without the football club, because I certainly don't think they could.

Of course they could! If they were not committed by contract to servicing all CCFC home fixtures they could tender for lots more events. Show Jumping, more rugby union, international rugby league to name but a few. They could also stage many more Saturday concerts and shows! Get real the stadium and facilities could make a lot more than the rent currently being charged!

 

[torchomatic]

Tendering for events is not the same as having a guaranteed twenty plus matches a season. You can't just "get" some Rugby matches.

Get real is certainly the key phrase.

Of course they could! If they were not committed by contract to servicing all CCFC home fixtures they could tender for lots more events. Show Jumping, more rugby union, international rugby league to name but a few. They could also stage many more Saturday concerts and shows! Get real the stadium and facilities could make a lot more than the rent currently being charged!

 

[Grendel]

Of course they could! If they were not committed by contract to servicing all CCFC home fixtures they could tender for lots more events. Show Jumping, more rugby union, international rugby league to name but a few. They could also stage many more Saturday concerts and shows! Get real the stadium and facilities could make a lot more than the rent currently being charged!

I assume this is a joke right?

 

[hopesprings]

Bottom line is it isnt good for either ACL or CCFC for the club to leave the Ricoh. Both should be better off together.

ACL are saying they want the club there but their actions tell us that it is not any cost, they can survive without. They want a reasonable rent for a very good stadium

CCFC need the income potential of larger crowds to survive or progress and a reasonable lower rent

balls in SISU's court as far as I am concerned right now. Get a deal done and lets move the club forward on a stable basis

As ever succinct and right to the point. DO THE DEAL !!!!

 

[hopesprings]

I assume this is a joke right?

Grendel and torchmatic must be the biggest muppets ever seen on any forum !

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

Grendel and torchmatic must be the biggest muppets ever seen on any forum !

The answer is No as I cant recall them calling people names flippently , unlike some:facepalm:

 

[hopesprings]

The answer is No as I cant recall them calling people names flippently , unlike some:facepalm:

It was not a question !

 

[torchomatic]

I tell you what then. If it's so easy, why not organise a few big concerts, exhibitions and Rugby Internationals for ACL and then I will say "you were right, I was wrong". Oh, while you're at it you can install a new sports team with the Ricoh as its home as Dongo said there are loads of teams waiting to take our place.

Goodness, I will be so full up on humble pie, won't I?

Oh, and by the way the "like" was irony.

Grendel and torchmatic must be the biggest muppets ever seen on any forum !

 

[Grendel]

I tell you what then. If it's so easy, why not organise a few big concerts, exhibitions and Rugby Internationals for ACL and then I will say "you were right, I was wrong". Oh, while you're at it you can install a new sports team with the Ricoh as its home as Dongo said there are loads of teams waiting to take our place.

Goodness, I will be so full up on humble pie, won't I?

Oh, and by the way the "like" was irony.

You forgot the show jumping. Perhaps that can be done in Car Park C.

 

[MichaelCCFC]

You forgot the show jumping. Perhaps that can be done in Car Park C.

Grendel, amidst so many posts you might have missed ny question to you - I've said earlier in this thread that the acl/council position is easy to understand but I don't see what sisu do next. What's your view?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

You forgot the show jumping. Perhaps that can be done in Car Park C.

As usual. Facetious rubbish. OSB's analysis shows its viable 'as is'. See his figures. Why don't you comment on those if you're so smart?

 

[Grendel]

As usual. Facetious rubbish. OSB's analysis shows its viable 'as is'. See his figures. Why don't you comment on those if you're so smart?

It's very very easy for those with a background in finance to quote figures and theoretically say it is possible. Of course anything is possible.

However if you are from a sales and marketing background you will consider it from a very different angle. If you are from a network capability background and someone suggested what was proposed you would have a heart attack as you would be located next to the NEC.

 

[oldskyblue58]

It's very very easy for those with a background in finance to quote figures and theoretically say it is possible. Of course anything is possible.

However if you are from a sales and marketing background you will consider it from a very different angle. If you are from a network capability background and someone suggested what was proposed you would have a heart attack as you would be located next to the NEC.

hear what you are saying on that Grendel ......... but owning my own business for example who do you think deals with a lot of its sales and marketing ? Not saying you are wrong, i think it is a valid point, but things are not always so clear cut and defined as we all know. Figures are no good unless they can be implemented. Plans, targets, structures no good unless they can be achieved in the real world

 

[Jack Griffin]

Ok no one on here has shown or demonstrated to me in this current Market where without CCFC playing at the RICOH can sustain in its present state. There will be no big name concerts every week up for grabs, if you think there are then you are deluded.

Demonstrate to us the converse, where are your figures and rationale?
Don't have any, I see.. more ill informed nonsense... again!

And lets look at it from the other way, how will CCFC fare without the Arena.. they are a loss making club which will end up with inferior facilities, a smaller crowd an less attractive to new players if they are forced to move to a different venue. They'd be screwed, totally, probably drop another division or two and languish there, without an academy or anything like that for some time. It is in SISU/CCFCs interests to agree a fair deal, ACL are negotiating with good faith, Joy is hard balling it mental style, she the man!

 

[Grendel]

Of course they could! If they were not committed by contract to servicing all CCFC home fixtures they could tender for lots more events. Show Jumping, more rugby union, international rugby league to name but a few. They could also stage many more Saturday concerts and shows! Get real the stadium and facilities could make a lot more than the rent currently being charged!

Right let's get serious about this.

Showjumping - moronic suggestion. All major events are at Olympia and the NEC (I assume you are indoor here or are we actually suggesting we take Hicksvtead). There is no chance. These are all established long term contracts and you are clearly ignorant of the facilities required for such an event which I am not.

International rugby -- ho ho. Now we are taking over Twickenham. Rugby Union internationals have far far too high crowds to even begin the conversation unless Isle of Man vs Jersey want to meet in the middle. MMM was saying Northampton have played games here and will again. They have never played a game here under their own steam and are extending their own ground so they no longer have to move to MK Dons for the occasional game.

Rugby League - played already at venues with twice the capacity.

Saturday concerts -- it may have escaped your attention but there are many Saturdays in the concert season already available. I have actually also been to a concert at a football ground during the season as well (City Ground Nottingham). There is no market for this whatsoever.

Frankly old boy you are talking mind numbing crap.


Its so easy to say revenue can be replaced, new ventures can be established when you are sitting at home digesting figures. One thing I do know as an absolute fact is that the only reason the Ricoh sponorship was established is because of the football club. Without that the sponsorhip goes.

ACL could no longer pay the mortgage that is why the council took over. Other council run stadiums all have the same problems.

If anyone who says it will work without the football is serious they should approach ACL and offer their services. You can. They will pay you £200,000 a year if you can make work your proposal. Go for it. Must be better than flipping burgers.

 

[Grendel]

hear what you are saying on that Grendel ......... but owning my own business for example who do you think deals with a lot of its sales and marketing ? Not saying you are wrong, i think it is a valid point, but things are not always so clear cut and defined as we all know. Figures are no good unless they can be implemented. Plans, targets, structures no good unless they can be achieved in the real world

I know and to be honest I enjoy reading your posts and business breakdowns so you are one person I don't like challenging. I also have consultancy involvement in a small business in a part time capacity and I when there are issues the accountant will, as is their role challenge and look at opportunities that the business should be getting into. The input can be valid but it is far easier to make that input when you are on the outside. We have a £2 million plus turnover so its small scale but the thought of losing the main contributor of that would put me in a cold sweat, Many alternate avenues good be explored but it is never as easy in practice.

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

Demonstrate to us the converse, where are your figures and rationale?
Don't have any, I see.. more ill informed nonsense... again!

And lets look at it from the other way, how will CCFC fare without the Arena.. they are a loss making club which will end up with inferior facilities, a smaller crowd an less attractive to new players if they are forced to move to a different venue. They'd be screwed, totally, probably drop another division or two and languish there, without an academy or anything like that for some time. It is in SISU/CCFCs interests to agree a fair deal, ACL are negotiating with good faith, Joy is hard balling it mental style, she the man!

If you read my earlier comments on this thread then you will see i have not only proved my point but also gave an example , remember........................ think , breathe and then type

 

[Jack Griffin]

It won't work long term without football, but CCFC won't work at all without the Arena & they need to pay for it.

Try & get your head around it, the way Joy plays it is as a life & death struggle, one or other party will die. ACL are trying to reach a compromise.

I want ACL to win here because they have Coventry's interests at heart & they are compedent. SISU do not give a damn about Coventry, CCFC or anyone except themselves & thier money, they will stomp on anything to get their way. If the current incarnation of CCFC dies because of these tactics, it will be the fault of SISU, but if it does (highly unlikely IMHO) they will rise again.

I'd rather stand up for what is right than let the finance boot boys kick my club in the balls.

 

[Grendel]

It won't work long term without football, but CCFC won't work at all without the Arena & they need to pay for it.

Try & get your head around it, the way Joy plays it is as a life & death struggle, one or other party will die. ACL are trying to reach a compromise.

I want ACL to win here because they have Coventry's interests at heart & they are compedent. SISU do not give a damn about Coventry, CCFC or anyone except themselves & thier money, they will stomp on anything to get their way. If the current incarnation of CCFC dies because of these tactics, it will be the fault of SISU, but if it does (highly unlikely IMHO) they will rise again.

I'd rather stand up for what is right than let the finance boot boys kick my club in the balls.

How do you define competence? According to some on here it is so easy to make money out of the facility that they are glaringly incompetent.

 

[dadgad]

Grendel and torchmatic must be the biggest muppets ever seen on any forum !

I've been all over, worked in some of the most intellectually bereft environments but I too would be hard pressed to find a match for grendel. I think he's actually addicted to idiocy.
A strange case.

 

[Grendel]

I've been all over, worked in some of the most intellectually bereft environments but I too would be hard pressed to find a match for grendel. I think he's actually addicted to idiocy.
A strange case.

So you've worked in ACL. I find that easy to believe. As your siding with hope springs where's the show jumping going to happen then?

 

[torchomatic]

Do you say the same of everyone who disagrees with you?

Obviously, I disagree with most people on here, particularly those who want ACL to "win" or would "rather see City liquidated than ACL 'lose'" or those who think we should get rid of SISU and "just get some new owners", etc. However, I wouldn't dream of saying they were addicted to idiocy, they see things one way, I see things another.

I've been all over, worked in some of the most intellectually bereft environments but I too would be hard pressed to find a match for grendel. I think he's actually addicted to idiocy.
A strange case.

 

[Grendel]

I've been all over, worked in some of the most intellectually bereft environments but I too would be hard pressed to find a match for grendel. I think he's actually addicted to idiocy.
A strange case.

Actually if go further. Explain what extra revenue can be attracted. What events, what these will yield as a return whee they will be sourced from. I challenge you educate me.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Where you're doing yourself no favours here Grendel is to incessantly sneer at other income streams. ACL claim they need no other income, and could survive without the football club. OSB produces figures, extrapolated from filed accounts that seem to back up this claimed viability.

Any additional income, liberated from ACL being freed from the football club's absence; would purely be icing in the cake.

Or maybe you disagree with both OSB and ACL's board?

 

[Jack Griffin]

How do you define competence? According to some on here it is so easy to make money out of the facility that they are glaringly incompetent.

As opposed to the incompedence shown by SISU of making a £40M loss over 6 years and reducing turnover significantly be dropping to division 3.

In the kingdom of the blind the one eyed man is king.

 

[BackRoomRummermill]

The only resonable result for me is that CCFC are playing and in operation at a Stadia of some sort. I do not care about all the 'speculation' posted on here and who are the goodies and who are the baddies.

It will not make a difference to what happens in any event what people write on here to the big picture.

There is a misconception that SISU and Also Arena Coventry Ltd are inept in operating a company. Let's get this stright right now, these are very tough operating times in buissness for everyone and we as the supporters are being spoon fed some snippets. To operate a entertainment operation in this climate is very difficult in the UK, Pub,Club and anyone who can't agree with that go and ask a 100 year old company like HMV, ask them how there accounts were 2 years ago. :facepalm:these are the current ACL accounts being banded about

If you are polarised into thinking SISU great or ACL great then you are with no REAL information to work with.

It will all come out in the wash, well sort of........ but one things for sure this RICOH stadium was dreamt up and costed in different times finacially and a different league for CCFC. The only way this stadium will ever work will be with regular punters coming in and that will only happen if the club achieves some success in the future.

 

[torchomatic]

As someone put on another thread from a leaked CCC document " “The CCFC rent is currently critical to ACL's viability. However, if ACL enforce payment of arrears and rent in full now, this is likely to result in the liquidation of CCFC.“

I'm sure there are other income streams, MMM, but people have been saying that ACL would just install another team into the arena and get some Rugby games. It ain't that simple; there's no guarantee like the guarantee of a Football League fixture list.

As as for their profit? £28K a year? While that maybe a profit it is dangerously low. No one knows what's round the corner and if ACL fail to attract more exhibitions and big concert names then they are buggered. I'd be interested to see how Mutton would explain that away.

Where you're doing yourself no favours here Grendel is to incessantly sneer at other income streams. ACL claim they need no other income, and could survive without the football club. OSB produces figures, extrapolated from filed accounts that seem to back up this claimed viability.

Any additional income, liberated from ACL being freed from the football club's absence; would purely be icing in the cake.

Or maybe you disagree with both OSB and ACL's board?