Tom Fisher Q & A email (3 Viewers)

[sky blue john]

Take of the blinkers and take your fingers out of your ears. It's not just SISU who have made this a bad situation all round. The Council and ACL need to look at themselves too. We could have all the concessions, etc for £24M?! No wonder they are thinking about their options and moving. No, SISU haven't handled this well, but the Council and ACL are motivated by greed and are not doing what is best for the football club and ultimately for the city of Coventry.

They might not be doing whats best for the football club but tell me what benifit does the city and people of coventry get from handing the stadium over to Sisu.
If anyone is blinkered it is you and Grendel because all you care about is ccfc and don't look at the bigger picture !!!!

 

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[Jack Griffin]

If the Council is motivated by greed, what are Hedge funds motivated by, charitable acts? I think not.

 

[torchomatic]

You're right, Dongo. Maybe greed isn't the right word. However they are, for whatever reason, being bloody minded and unreasonable. OK, so they don't like SISU but both sides are damaging the Club.

Good balanced view there touch.

Apart from the last bit the council motivated by greed? Really?

 

[torchomatic]

And what is the "bigger picture"? You tell me.

People like you want SISU out. They're not going anywhere because they are all we have and there's no knight in shining armour waiting in the wings. Why? Because Coventry City is in all intents and purposes homeless; sleeping on someone's sofa. Any potential investor/buyer will want a part of the action; part of the Ricoh so they can make money. Any future owner will be no different to the current one. A future investor will look at what is going on and think that ACL/The COuncil are inflexible and not bothered about their club, hence the "hell will freeze over" before the Club get the stadium. Hardly a statement to make you want to get your chequebook out, is it?

You're bang on about one thing though, all I care about is the Club, Coventry City, which is why I'm on their "side" in all this.

They might not be doing whats best for the football club but tell me what benifit does the city and people of coventry get from handing the stadium over to Sisu.
If anyone is blinkered it is you and Grendel because all you care about is ccfc and don't look at the bigger picture !!!!

 

[theferret]

And what is the "bigger picture"? You tell me.

People like you want SISU out. They're not going anywhere because they are all we have and there's no knight in shining armour waiting in the wings. Why? Because Coventry City is in all intents and purposes homeless; sleeping on someone's sofa. Any potential investor/buyer will want a part of the action; part of the Ricoh so they can make money. Any future owner will be no different to the current one. A future investor will look at what is going on and think that ACL/The COuncil are inflexible and not bothered about their club, hence the "hell will freeze over" before the Club get the stadium. Hardly a statement to make you want to get your chequebook out, is it?

You're bang on about one thing though, all I care about is the Club, Coventry City, which is why I'm on their "side" in all this.

I fear you are wasting your breath. Most people just don't want to hear that or are simply too stupid to understand the realities.

I admire your persistence though, and I'm not sure I have the energy to continue to argue with the SISU-OUT monkeys.

The actions of ACL/CCC in this affair have been shameful. Hopefully one day people will see beyond their hatred of those people that continue to fund our loss-making football club and keep it in existence. How dare those fuckers continue to pump their own money in CCFC in order to keep it afloat? What a liberty :facepalm:

 

[Grendel]

I fear you are wasting your breath. Most people just don't want to hear that or are simply too stupid to understand the realities.

I admire your persistence though, and I'm not sure I have the energy to continue to argue with the SISU-OUT monkeys.

The actions of ACL/CCC in this affair have been shameful. Hopefully one day people will see beyond their hatred of those people that continue to fund our loss-making football club and keep it in existence. How dare those feckers continue to pump their own money in CCFC in order to keep it afloat? What a liberty :facepalm:

Blimey! Another one who can see the real bigger picture. Prepare to be hung drawn and quartered by the council loving lunatics.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Blimey! Another one who can see the real bigger picture. Prepare to be hung drawn and quartered by the council loving lunatics.

I forgot it was the council who sold Highfield Road and pocketed the cash for themselves. Also forgot that the money that went into building the ground came out of the ether and not the council funds. Most of all, the devious council sold our share in ACL to pay off debt.

Nasty nasty council. Contracts are there to be broken after all.

 

[theferret]

Blimey! Another one who can see the real bigger picture. Prepare to be hung drawn and quartered by the council loving lunatics.

I like to think we form the silent majority, but perhaps we should be a bit more vocal because I genuinely think the Council believe they have widespread public support for their position. I do not believe that is the case, and I think many people understand that the football club is part of the fabric of this city, and for the local authority to be actively working against the interests of that football club (and ultimately their own as the Ricoh is not viable without CCFC), is creating a lot of ill feeling.

It's a pity there are no local elections in May.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I like to think we form the silent majority, but perhaps we should be a bit more vocal because I genuinely think the Council believe they have widespread public support for their position. I do not believe that is the case, and I think many people understand that the football club is part of the fabric of this city, and for the local authority to be actively working against the interests of that football club (and ultimately their own as the Ricoh is not viable without CCFC), is creating a lot of ill feeling.

It's a pity there are no local elections in May.

Oh please. Fisher kicked this off with his contract breaking rent boycott, and claims that the sticking point is not the reduced rent figure but access to the matchday revenues. His actions alone have landed the club with its accounts frozen and reputations dragged through the mud-his e-mail claims that matchday costs are tantamount to rent when this is clearly incorrect. If the club goes under it is his doing.

 

[torchomatic]

I don't think anyone, at least I'm not, disputing that it was the Club - for that read Richardson - who started the ball rolling and we've been struggling ever since. However, I do think the Council certainly took advantage of us in our "hour of need". They bought our share ridiculously cheap and pegged a rent that was ridiculously expensive, so while I agree with one half your post, I don't agree when you infer that the Council are poor little innocents.

I forgot it was the council who sold Highfield Road and pocketed the cash for themselves. Also forgot that the money that went into building the ground came out of the ether and not the council funds. Most of all, the devious council sold our share in ACL to pay off debt.

Nasty nasty council. Contracts are there to be broken after all.

 

[theferret]

I forgot it was the council who sold Highfield Road and pocketed the cash for themselves. Also forgot that the money that went into building the ground came out of the ether and not the council funds. Most of all, the devious council sold our share in ACL to pay off debt.

Nasty nasty council. Contracts are there to be broken after all.

We could perhaps focus on the Tesco land deal then, brokered by the football club generating millions that went into building a stadium that they then had no stake in. The Council did very well out of that and the fact they never gave the club some concession for the fact they had contributed hugely to the finances required to build the Ricoh was appalling (but you could blame McGinnity et al for letting that happen).

Let's tackle another myth. The rest of the money required to build the Ricoh did not come from 'council funds', why do people persist with this nonsense? It was a bank loan, pure and simple which until recently was serviced wholly by ACL from operating revenues. NOT A PENNY of council money has ever gone into the Ricoh.

Yes, the council have now settled that loan, which they have done by taking out ANOTHER loan, which again will be paid by ACL, but this time direct to the council (who having secured a better rate of interest on the settlement loan will now PROFIT from those loan repayments by ACL). The whole thing has been WIN-WIN for the council from day one.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Sorry ferret, but the club had its stake in the stadium which was sold by McGinnity to pay off debt-that was not the council's doing and was a result of financial mismanagement which the club, and the club alone, was to blame for. Had this not happened none of this fiasco would have had to unfold.

 

[torchomatic]

The rent and the purchase of our share was wholly advantageous to the Council/ACL quango. Regardless of who was right or wrong, no one in the "Football Supporting Council" gave a hoot about the football club and it's future. And that hasn't change, IMHO.

Sorry ferret, but the club had its stake in the stadium which was sold by McGinnity to pay off debt-that was not the council's doing and was a result of financial mismanagement which the club, and the club alone, was to blame for. Had this not happened none of this fiasco would have had to unfold.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don't think anyone, at least I'm not, disputing that it was the Club - for that read Richardson - who started the ball rolling and we've been struggling ever since. However, I do think the Council certainly took advantage of us in our "hour of need". They bought our share ridiculously cheap and pegged a rent that was ridiculously expensive, so while I agree with one half your post, I don't agree when you infer that the Council are poor little innocents.

The council didn't buy our share, it was the Higgs Charity. The club is to blame for its own predicament-from selling its stake to getting relegated twice; I'm sorry, but that's the honest reality of the situation.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The rent and the purchase of our share was wholly advantageous to the Council/ACL quango. Regardless of who was right or wrong, no one in the "Football Supporting Council" gave a hoot about the football club and it's future. And that hasn't change, IMHO.

It was sold to the Higgs Charity, for the millionth time Torch. It wasn't wrestled off the club, we chose to sell it to pay off debt without thinking of the long term implications.

 

[torchomatic]

YEs, you're right, of course. The whole Quango. Still, the Quango did not help the club. They charged an exorbitant rent from day one as they knew we had no other choice.

Either way I'm sick of hearing about the poor little charity and the poor council.

The council didn't buy our share, it was the Higgs Charity. The club is to blame for its own predicament-from selling its stake to getting relegated twice; I'm sorry, but that's the honest reality of the situation.

 

[Ashdown1]

We could perhaps focus on the Tesco land deal then, brokered by the football club generating millions that went into building a stadium that they then had no stake in. The Council did very well out of that and the fact they never gave the club some concession for the fact they had contributed hugely to the finances required to build the Ricoh was appalling (but you could blame McGinnity et al for letting that happen).

Let's tackle another myth. The rest of the money required to build the Ricoh did not come from 'council funds', why do people persist with this nonsense? It was a bank loan, pure and simple which until recently was serviced wholly by ACL from operating revenues. NOT A PENNY of council money has ever gone into the Ricoh.

Yes, the council have now settled that loan, which they have done by taking out ANOTHER loan, which again will be paid by ACL, but this time direct to the council (who having secured a better rate of interest on the settlement loan will now PROFIT from those loan repayments by ACL). The whole thing has been WIN-WIN for the council from day one.

My understanding was that this deal was brokered by Richardson who departed the club and the council took up the mantle and made the killing. It was all about timing and available credit wasn't it?

 

[torchomatic]

And the rent was pegged at a ridiculous amount with the Quango thinking of the long term implications. Hence, why I think all on the ACL/Council side are greedy and are not thinking about the future of CCFC.

It was sold to the Higgs Charity, for the millionth time Torch. It wasn't wrestled off the club, we chose to sell it to pay off debt without thinking of the long term implications.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

YEs, you're right, of course. The whole Quango. Still, the Quango did not help the club. They charged an exorbitant rent from day one as they knew we had no other choice.

Either way I'm sick of hearing about the poor little charity and the poor council.

The charity is the sole reason we still have academy grounds as they were the ones who put up the funding (Hint, 'Alan Higgs' Centre). How you can criticise a Coventry charity which does a lot for the local area is beyond me-why not criticise the people who ran us into debt and decided to sell our stake to pay it off?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

So how much has that cost them a season? If we're losing this much money, the rent is a drop in the ocean of debt, surely?

Think in simple & extremes that you are unlikely (hopefully) to ever encounter...
Your best m8 suddenly reveals he's on hard drugs & owes £5k or the dealers are gonna kill him. To save his life you pay the £5k...do you then deprive your family of luxuries & sell the family silver to give him £150 (I've no idea how much these things really cost) a month to sustain his habit? Or do you look for some other solution?

It appears ACL & CCFC both recognise something needs to change - but what? How much of it? And how to make it happen? Are the real obstacles because there are a significant number of very tight knots one or the other has tied themselves up with.

Best advice IMO? Don't even begin to try to understand it because it's very very complex...& don't believe anyone else that posts authoritatively on it because they are either biased to one party or another, or are only presenting on what is very limited & known as fact information. They might (or might not) be very knowledgable about some or even all of the procedures & processes that must be followed...but all of the facts are known & understood by only a very few people.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

And the rent was pegged at a ridiculous amount with the Quango thinking of the long term implications. Hence, why I think all on the ACL/Council side are greedy and are not thinking about the future of CCFC.

They came to the negotiating table with the club when it was requested (intriguingly CCFC decided not to do this at any other time since 2005), offered major reductions, which were refused and the club continued the boycott with no legal basis for doing so. It's completely self inflicted-the whole royal mess.

 

[torchomatic]

I do. And on a regular basis. But the identikit "SISU OUT!" brigade cannot see where the this whole sorry mess started. You can hint as much as you like about the Alan Higgs Centre. I can easily criticise the Charity as they have made a packet from the club and own a huge piece of real estate that they should not own. They were happy to sell, but the idiot Mutton decided to knock that idea on the head.

The charity is the sole reason we still have academy grounds as they were the ones who put up the funding (Hint, 'Alan Higgs' Centre). How you can criticise a Coventry charity which does a lot for the local area is beyond me-why not criticise the people who ran us into debt and decided to sell our stake to pay it off?

 

[torchomatic]

And the club have agreed that the £400K (not £150K!) is fine. It's the concessions that we need to get our hands on. If we don't then we are well and truly stuffed. I really do wish there was some way we could leave the bloody Ricoh and get our own ground. I have really come to dislike the place. A millstone that is dragging us under the water. With the foot of ACL on our head.

They came to the negotiating table with the club when it was requested (intriguingly CCFC decided not to do this at any other time since 2005), offered major reductions, which were refused and the club continued the boycott with no legal basis for doing so. It's completely self inflicted-the whole royal mess.

 

[Ashdown1]

I love this repeated slagging of the 'Quango' from someone who's favoured political party brought in hundreds of the money wasting organisations who are now part to blame for the current governments financial problems.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I do. And on a regular basis. But the identikit "SISU OUT!" brigade cannot see where the this whole sorry mess started. You can hint as much as you like about the Alan Higgs Centre. I can easily criticise the Charity as they have made a packet from the club and own a huge piece of real estate that they should not own. They were happy to sell, but the idiot Mutton decided to knock that idea on the head.

Agree on the 'SISU out' fallacy. The root cause is the club's awful leadership from Richardson through to McGinnity which set this all in place-the Higgs shouldn't own the stake but they do because of the actions of these two men. This is indisputable and is a mess of the club's own making.

 

[torchomatic]

Like I said, Identikit "SISU OUT!" brigade who ignore where the whole mess started.

I love this repeated slagging of the 'Quango' from someone who's favoured political party brought in hundreds of the money wasting organisations who are now part to blame for the current governments financial problems.

 

[dongonzalos]

You're right, Dongo. Maybe greed isn't the right word. However they are, for whatever reason, being bloody minded and unreasonable. OK, so they don't like SISU but both sides are damaging the Club.

Yep agree with you.
I think it is now deep seated mis-trust.
However it hasn't emanated from nowhere.

I think SISU need to do some things to win that trust back.

Unfortunately every move they make seems to do the exact opposite.

They invested in a playing squad this season which was a first massive step.

If in the back of that they try to agree a rent or did the deal fir the shares, as oppose to try and nail ACL. I think the council would have been had to be a hell of a lot more sympathetic.

Unfortunately Joy's history of business dealing doesn't work like that.

There was an opportunity there and she went for it.

Now there is this massive caesium of mist trust.

No sure if it beyond repair.

I don't think the council will be beaten into submission.

So SISU will need to win them over.

Just not really sure how they do it now.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

And the club have agreed that the £400K (not £150K!) is fine. It's the concessions that we need to get our hands on. If we don't then we are well and truly stuffed. I really do wish there was some way we could leave the bloody Ricoh and get our own ground. I have really come to dislike the place. A millstone that is dragging us under the water. With the foot of ACL on our head.

Well, according to TF Compass have the final say on those-indeed I'm surprised that Compass haven't waded in at some point given all of the negative press attention this has gathered.

 

[shropshirecov]

The whole ACL/council stadium stance sums up why I left Coventry a few years back. Yet, most people I speak to think the council have an anti big business agenda which SISU falls into. Leftie loons who infest sites like this one will never agree. If the council said to the club, play there for free, you just maintain the facility, they would be outraged. W.ankers.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The whole ACL/council stadium stance sums up why I left Coventry a few years back. Yet, most people I speak to think the council have an anti big business agenda which SISU falls into. Leftie loons who infest sites like this one will never agree. If the council said to the club, play there for free, you just maintain the facility, they would be outraged. W.ankers.

Leftie loons? That made me :laugh: ... at you, not with with you.

 

[Ashdown1]

Like I said, Identikit "SISU OUT!" brigade who ignore where the whole mess started.

Keep your hair on, I think everyone knows who really nobbled the club, some of us were just hoping that new owners could improve the situation, not make it even worse !

 

[torchomatic]

And who are going to take over from SISU then? You desperately want them out but have you thought who'd take us over? Who's going to buy a name, a training ground, a small hardcore fanbase and a bunch of middling players? Because that all Coventry City are at the moment.

Keep your hair on, I think everyone knows who really nobbled the club, some of us were just hoping that new owners could improve the situation, not make it even worse !

 

[Ashdown1]

Erm lets get facts straight..............I've never said I want them to walk away without a credible replacement either. I'm very suspicious of involvements by these types of companies in sport of course and they've made some terrible mistakes all round but I'd rather they succeed and do what's right for CCFC rather than quit out of sight.

 

[theferret]

The charity is the sole reason we still have academy grounds as they were the ones who put up the funding (Hint, 'Alan Higgs' Centre). How you can criticise a Coventry charity which does a lot for the local area is beyond me-why not criticise the people who ran us into debt and decided to sell our stake to pay it off?

Why? Because there is no point in continuing to bleat on about past mistakes. We have a situation in the here and now that needs to be resolved, and the Higgs Trust have taken a position that makes no sense either commercially or in terms of benefiting the local community which is their raison d'etre after all.

Nobody is seeking to deny that the seeds for this mess were sewn in the Richardson era and that the club, to a large extent, have bought this on themselves. It doesn't escape the fact that the position the council are currently taking is indefensible.

CCFC as a 3rd tier club cannot afford to pay that much in rent and they are right not to pay it. ACL's position is absurd; their existence is reliant on their venue (a football stadium) having in place a football club as anchor tenant. Making legal moves that threatens the very existence of the football club is just plain madness (perhaps like most gullible fans they think that SISU have bottomless pockets and will continue to chuck money at this mess).

I don't think they will (just opinion obviously) and you wonder if SISU did decide to walk away and the whole house of cards came crashing down, how much would ACL be charging the new phoenix club playing at conference level and below? It wouldn't be 400K a year I'll tell you that.

 

[PWKH]

The Club still has the right to gain access to the revenues at the Ricoh. This comes with ownership of shares in ACL. This was agreed from the start. When they sold their shares to the Higgs Charity they got the money they needed to avoid administration and start the next season along with the right to buy back their shares. Nobody has told them they couldn’t buy back those shares: they have chosen not to.
Back in 2008 and 2009 I had two meetings with Onye Igwe when he told me that the Charity had to sell their shares to the Club and he would tell me how much they would pay. He also told me of the Club’s exciting plans to expand the supporter base in Nigeria and China. It was an odd way to approach the matter but I said nothing but waited for him to come back with a price. He was, I suspect, ignoring the option which gave the Club the right to buy for a fixed sum. I heard nothing more and then he was removed. Ken Dulieu then appeared and I met him in London for him also to say that the Club was going to buy the shares. Nothing happened and he disappeared.
Tim Fisher talks about the need to increase the revenues of the Club. He suggests that the Club has a right to them. He is correct. They have a right to buy them back. Only the Club has an Option to buy them.
The Charity paid the Club for those shares. The Charity must hope to make a return, either through an increase in value or through an income, from those shares. There has, of course, been no income at all from those shares yet. Tim Fisher now wants some of that income simply to be given to the Club because it needs it. It is clear that the Club needs more income and ACL had offered to give up some income: the food and beverage revenues everyone refers to.
I fear that just as that offer is now withdrawn the possibility of the Club now buying back into ACL has receded.
To make the businesses at the Ricoh work efficiently they have to work together in harmony and with trust. That began to happen under Ray Ranson and the Club was able to make savings and increase its income. Perhaps if his influence had been strong enough to stop the Club being distracted by ideas of business expansion in Nigeria and China and he had kept the owners concentrated on buying back into ACL we would not all be locked into this destructive spiral.