Just one question for ACL/Council.. a petition ? (2 Viewers)

[Voice_of_Reason]

Why won't you agree to a mediator when this seems the fairest way to resolve this ? Maybe we should start a Petition requesting that they do ?

 

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[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Why has Fisher only raised this now and why not before they stopped paying rent?

Why hasn't he put this properly on the negotiating table and merely done so in the media?

Have you noticed it's mediation and not binding arbitration?

Hasn't a court already independently sanctioned the legal position without SISU even turning up?

These things just may be going through their minds...

 

[oldskyblue58]

Thing is VoR a mediator is just a referee and mediation is not a binding process. So at the end of the process we could still end up in exactly the same position as we are now..... no agreement. The thing it would achieve I think is more delay

Arbitration would be different, that is someone independent sitting in judhement and would be binding on both sides. That is just not going to be acceptable to either side.

I think the fans have little (even no ) influence on what is going on. My own opinion is that a petition to request mediation wouldnt achieve anything at all but others may well think differently

 

[Godiva]

Thing is VoR a mediator is just a referee and mediation is not a binding process. So at the end of the process we could still end up in exactly the same position as we are now..... no agreement. The thing it would achieve I think is more delay

Arbitration would be different, that is someone independent sitting in judhement and would be binding on both sides. That is just not going to be acceptable to either side.

I think the fans have little (even no ) influence on what is going on. My own opinion is that a petition to request mediation wouldnt achieve anything at all but others may well think differently

Which is exactly why arbitration is the best way forward.

 

[TrueSkyBlueLiam]

It will just end up in the bin. No-one cares what we think. we're just fans. ACL, SISU and Coventry City Council will do whats best for number 1, they dont give a sh*t whats best for the club or for us, they'll just chuck it away unfortunately. Just wish we could make people actually listen to us

 

[Godiva]

I wonder how far the latest offer from ACL is to the clubs original demand.

Would it be a fair argument that if the offer is close to the demand the current debt arrears is caused by ACL?

 

[oldskyblue58]

Which is exactly why arbitration is the best way forward.

it may be but you cannot force either side to do it............... it also wouldnt surprise if some of the outcomes to it were not what some fans expect

 

[oldskyblue58]

I wonder how far the latest offer from ACL is to the clubs original demand.

Would it be a fair argument that if the offer is close to the demand the current debt arrears is caused by ACL?

on what basis ? .............. in what way is it ACL interest to delay?........ Have CCFC compromised anything? ............ can ACL offer any more? .......... is CCFC's position right or is it just a demand that hasnt moved in any real way from the start?

Bottom line is we do not know

 

[Godiva]

............. it also wouldnt surprise if some of the outcomes to it were not what some fans expect

I am sure a judgement by an independant expert would be accepted by most fans as the best achievable result.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I wonder how far the latest offer from ACL is to the clubs original demand.

Would it be a fair argument that if the offer is close to the demand the current debt arrears is caused by ACL?

No. It'd be a daft argument. The arrears are a function of the time taken to negotiate. During which time, Fisher and his floppy-haired fancies have been buggeing about looking at Rushden & Diamonds ground, Hinckley Town, making agreements, then renaging upon them, distressing ACL, then looking at a new build site close to Rugby; and now 'mediation'.

The arears are a function of a lack of agreement over time. The longer it's deferred, the larger the mountain. And geting Fisher to seemingly agree a course of action akin to trying to put smoke in your pocket. So; no

 

[oldskyblue58]

I am sure a judgement by an independant expert would be accepted by most fans as the best achievable result.

really ? perhaps the silent majority .................. but if the final solution was more to ACL's liking than CCFC there would be all sorts kicking off from some fans.

The starting point for arbitration imo would not be the latest offer vs CCFC's demand................ it would probably have to start from the original set up vs CCFC's demand. Any offers that had been made would be taken off the table, because the dispuite is over the actual agreement not the proposals

 

[Godiva]

I wonder how far the latest offer from ACL is to the clubs original demand.

Would it be a fair argument that if the offer is close to the demand the current debt arrears is caused by ACL?

on what basis ? .............. in what way is it ACL interest to delay?........ Have CCFC compromised anything? ............ can ACL offer any more? .......... is CCFC's position right or is it just a demand that hasnt moved in any real way from the start?

Bottom line is we do not know

Basis:
If demand and latest offer are very close, this war would have ended before it even started.

Delay:
The delay has served noone.

CCFC compromise:
I don't think they have compromised at the bottom line.

Further ACL offers:
Probably not enough to keep fighting.

CCFC position:
It is wrong from a strictly legal view.
It is right from a financial viewpoint - and ACL apparently agrees (otherwise they wouldn't compromise)

 

[Godiva]

really ? perhaps the silent majority .................. but if the final solution was more to ACL's liking than CCFC there would be all sorts kicking off from some fans.

The starting point for arbitration imo would not be the latest offer vs CCFC's demand................ it would probably have to start from the original set up vs CCFC's demand. Any offers that had been made would be taken off the table, because the dispuite is over the actual agreement not the proposals

I agree - arbitration would be over the original contract.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Why won't you agree to a mediator when this seems the fairest way to resolve this ? Maybe we should start a Petition requesting that they do ?

why don't you petition for both sides to enter into binding arbitration?

 

[oldskyblue58]

Basis:
If demand and latest offer are very close, this war would have ended before it even started. thats your opinion there may be other factors that mean it would (thats my opinion)

Delay:
The delay has served noone. are we certain of that ?

CCFC compromise:
I don't think they have compromised at the bottom line. so if they have not compromised are they actually negotiating ?

Further ACL offers:
Probably not enough to keep fighting. I think for their current business model they have gone all they can .... there may be minor tweaks but the offer is as low as they are prepared to go for their business. The fact that it doesnt get CCFC out of its financial mess is not ACL's fault or indeed their responsibility to solve

CCFC position:
It is wrong from a strictly legal view. correct
It is right from a financial viewpoint - and ACL apparently agrees (otherwise they wouldn't compromise)you are in business surely you know sometimes you have to compromise to get things done it isnt about being right or fair it is a business decision to move forward .............effectively they have passed the benefits of their restructuring on to CCFC [/QUOTE]

Trouble is whatever ACL does that they can afford to do, CCFC is not going to be viable in a proper business sense. It has been suggested ACL and Council should gift the stadium to CCFC - now that might work if there are funds to develop the rest of the site but will only work for the owners ........ will that be CCFC or SISU? But in any case I see no justification for gifting the club or SISU anything, an earn out or scheme of purchase would be different

 

[Godiva]

Trouble is whatever ACL does that they can afford to do, CCFC is not going to be viable in a proper business sense. It has been suggested ACL and Council should gift the stadium to CCFC - now that might work if there are funds to develop the rest of the site but will only work for the owners ........ will that be CCFC or SISU? But in any case I see no justification for gifting the club or SISU anything, an earn out or scheme of purchase would be different

The club will never become viable or competitive on its own - so a merger with ACL is the best way forward.
The development of the rest of the site is beyond the clubs core business and best left at expert developers.
Development will benefit the club, but I see no reason why it should be done spending the clubs resources.

 

[oldskyblue58]

The club will never become viable or competitive on its own - so a merger with ACL is the best way forward. it might seem a good solution from a club perspective but there is a whole lot of reasons why ACL wouldnt do that not least of which is the debt CCFC carries and the likelyhood of future losses and debts.
The development of the rest of the site is beyond the clubs core business and best left at expert developers. agreed and if ACL want to do that do they need to be merged withh ccfc to do it ?
Development will benefit the club, but I see no reason why it should be done spending the clubs resources. hasnt got the resources so academic but to develop the site why do the site owners actually have to include CCFC at all other than make sure they have done all they can to make their tenant viable?

It increasingly looks like that CCFC in its current structure is dead in the water with very few options left to explore

 

[blueflint]

It will just end up in the bin. No-one cares what we think. we're just fans. ACL, SISU and Coventry City Council will do whats best for number 1, they dont give a sh*t whats best for the club or for us, they'll just chuck it away unfortunately. Just wish we could make people actually listen to us

disagree m8 if ACL or the council didn't care we would of been wound up by now

 

[skyblueman]

It increasingly looks like that CCFC in its current structure is dead in the water with very few options left to explore

Agreed OSB - I think SISU are just waiting on whether we maybe manage to get to the play-offs before deciding on the next course of action - nothing is going to get sorted before then IMO - certainly no money will be paid over to ACL

 

[chiefdave]

The club will never become viable or competitive on its own - so a merger with ACL is the best way forward.
The development of the rest of the site is beyond the clubs core business and best left at expert developers.
Development will benefit the club, but I see no reason why it should be done spending the clubs resources.

Agree with you that some sort of merger or takeover by ACL is the way forward but SISU would still be looking for some return and given how much they say they have put in the only way I can see it happening is if SISU walk away and we go into admin. Even then ACL would have to have some plan as how to run CCFC as a viable business and at the moment I can't see how that can be achieved.

 

[Waldorf]

ACL is a stadium management company. It hAs no business affinity with a football club, so merger doesn't make sense. And the last thing the Council would want is a half share of a failed football club.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Agreed OSB - I think SISU are just waiting on whether we maybe manage to get to the play-offs before deciding on the next course of action - nothing is going to get sorted before then IMO - certainly no money will be paid over to ACL

Yeah, so are ACL as the court order can't be carried out till May.

ACL is a stadium management company. It hAs no business affinity with a football club, so merger doesn't make sense. And the last thing the Council would want is a half share of a failed football club.

Yeah and why would SISU want to buy into a "failing council-owned business" (to quote Mr Fisher) like that.. oh hold on a minute they're distressed debt specialists.

 

[Grendel]

Yeah, so are ACL as the court order can't be carried out till May.


Yeah and why would SISU want to buy into a "failing council-owned business" (to quote Mr Fisher) like that.. oh hold on a minute they're distressed debt specialists.

Your last statement shows your appalling business ignorance. If the club and the Arena management company were one entity and owned the stadium by agreeing to purchase the outstanding mortgage then the collective asset would be worth significantly more.

 

[sky blue zam]

Yeah, so are ACL as the court order can't be carried out till May.

season ticket sales will be interesting up till this point

 

[Jack Griffin]

Your last statement shows your appalling business ignorance. If the club and the Arena management company were one entity and owned the stadium by agreeing to purchase the outstanding mortgage then the collective asset would be worth significantly more.

Your last sentence shows an inability to understand my sense of humour.

 

[TheParsonsHose]

Thing is VoR a mediator is just a referee and mediation is not a binding process. So at the end of the process we could still end up in exactly the same position as we are now..... no agreement. The thing it would achieve I think is more delay

Arbitration would be different, that is someone independent sitting in judhement and would be binding on both sides. That is just not going to be acceptable to either side.

I think the fans have little (even no ) influence on what is going on. My own opinion is that a petition to request mediation wouldnt achieve anything at all but others may well think differently

This is turning into just one big stand off now with the council not having the balls to call in a debt and risk the loss of votes.

I think what CCFC are really looking for is just an outside body with a credible reputation to back up what they are saying. If this comes out higher than their valuation then we will just get back to the revenue stream conversation. The biggest problem is with the rights sold on why the incumbent in this area would want to share revenues with CCFC..... Am I missing something here?