Well, Well.... (7 Viewers)

[CJparker]

Let's be totally clear. I don't care about ACL - the council own them (co-own) so are entitled to subisize them, even though ACL has been in profit for most of its existence.

What I also do care about is the club becoming self-financing - that is a necessity, both for SISU and their shareholders and for CCFC (the club should not be reliant on ongoing 'good money after bad' funding).

Now that we are all agreed on the objective, you can take 3 approaches to achieve it:

One is that the club grows and increases revenue by doing well on the pitch - SISU's plan A which everyone should support. Shame they got it wrong - to be fair, they didn't have the best leader in Uncle Ray but it was their choice to get into bed with him.

Plan B is to retrench, cut back and hope for the best - they chose this in 2011 when plan A had failed. Shows how much they know about football, as we got relegated immediately and lost further revenue.

Plan C is to reduce ongoing costs to match lower revenue. This, again, is something that any sensible business will do. However, as other posters have pointed out, SISU are doing this by inappropriate tactics. Even if you do think the rent is too high, that is no justification for stopping paying. This approach has burned valuable bridges, and has involved a section of support trying to defend the club by blaming everyone else for our woes.

The solution is clear - a new Plan A which sees us going for growth again. SISU have tried this this season, but only to a point. Unless they leave, the council will not cooperate in full by selling the ground to the club - and rightly so. It is therefore clear that SISU need to leave the club.

So, if we agree that SISU need to leave, it is even more imperative that we become self-funding. You can see here the "chicken and egg" problem. However, it is more of a "cart and horse" problem - there is a right way round. If SISU leave, the council will be far more amenable to selling the club to a new owner, vastly improiving the attractiveness of the club as a proposition. Clearly therefore, getting SISU out is a priority. Here is how it should be achieved:

1) Football Assocation to refuse permission to allow the club to leave the immediate Coventry area. Council to refuse planning permission for the club to move to a new ground anywhere inside the immediate Coventry area. - SISU are therefore unable to leave the Ricoh.

2) Council to insist on current ACL negotiation position with SISU. Higgs to continue its role as a silent partner. - SISU therefore unable to buy Ricoh or to reduce rent to the level they want.

This will lead to SISU putting the club for sale discreetly, getting out of Coventry and allowing a new, more suitable investor, whoever that might be, to come in and buy the club from SISU for a song, and buy the ground from ACL at a reasonable price.

All City supporters to support the above, if possible through SOC-style direct action.

Who is with me?

 

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[hamil99]

Let's be totally clear. I don't care about ACL - the council own them (co-own) so are entitled to subisize them, even though ACL has been in profit for most of its existence.

What I also do care about is the club becoming self-financing - that is a necessity, both for SISU their shareholders and for CCFC (the club should not be reliant on ongoing 'good money after bad' funding).

Now that we are all agreed on the objective, you can take 3 approaches to achieve it:

One is that the club grows and increases revenue by doing well on the pitch - SISU's plan A which everyone should support. Shame they got it wrong - to be fair, they didn't have the best leader in Uncle Ray but it was their choice to get into bed with him.

Plan B is to retrench, cut back and hope for the best - they chose this in 2011 when plan A had failed. Shows how much they know about football, as we got relegated immediately and lost further revenue.

Plan C is to reduce ongoing costs to match lower revenue. This, again, is something that any sensible business will do. However, as other posters have pointed out, SISU are doing this by inappropriate tactics. Even if you do think the rent is too high, that is no justification for stopping paying. This approach has burned valuable bridges, and has involved a section of support trying to defend the club by blaming everyone else for our woes.

The solution is clear - a new Plan A which sees us going for growth again. SISU have tried this this season, but only to a point. Unless they leave, the council will not cooperate in full by selling the ground to the club - and rightly so. It is therefore clear that SISU need to leave the club.

So, if we agree that SISU need to leave, it is even more imperative that we become self-funding. You can see here the "chicken and egg" problem. However, it is more of a "cart and horse" problem - there is a right way round. If SISU leave, the council will be far more amenable to selling the club to a new owner, vastly improiving the attractiveness of the club as a proposition. Clearly therefore, getting SISU out is a priority. Here is how it should be achieved:

1) Football Assocation to refuse permission to allow the club to leave the immediate Coventry area. Council to refuse planning permission for the club to move to a new ground anywhere inside the immediate Coventry area. - SISU are therefore unable to leave the Ricoh.

2) Council to insist on current ACL negotiation position with SISU. Higgs to continue its role as a silent partner. - SISU therefore unable to buy Ricoh or to reduce rent to the level they want.

This will lead to SISU putting the club for sale discreetly, getting out of Coventry and allowing a new, more suitable investor, whoever that might be, to come in and buy the club from SISU for a song, and buy the ground from ACL at a reasonable price.

All City supporters to support the above, if possible through SOC-style direct action.

Who is with me?

Not me mate, ur basically saying the council should use bully tactics that u have criticized sisu for using. Even though I agree with wat sisu are trying to do I don't agree with how they have gone about it and wouldn't condone it.

 

[The Penguin]

So, if we agree that SISU need to leave, it is even more imperative that we become self-funding. You can see here the "chicken and egg" problem. However, it is more of a "cart and horse" problem - there is a right way round. If SISU leave, the council will be far more amenable to selling the club to a new owner, vastly improiving the attractiveness of the club as a proposition. Clearly therefore, getting SISU out is a priority. Here is how it should be achieved:

1) Football Assocation to refuse permission to allow the club to leave the immediate Coventry area. Council to refuse planning permission for the club to move to a new ground anywhere inside the immediate Coventry area. - SISU are therefore unable to leave the Ricoh.

2) Council to insist on current ACL negotiation position with SISU. Higgs to continue its role as a silent partner. - SISU therefore unable to buy Ricoh or to reduce rent to the level they want.

This will lead to SISU putting the club for sale discreetly, getting out of Coventry and allowing a new, more suitable investor, whoever that might be, to come in and buy the club from SISU for a song, and buy the ground from ACL at a reasonable price.

The problem with this is that it all hinges on somebody wanting to buy us.

I'm just not convinced that this somebody exists.

 

[TheSnoz]

There is a nice easy solution to most of CCFC's money woes. Instead of 10,000 fans turning up, why can't - say - 15,000 armchair fans (who say they are supporters but who rarely show up) - LOCALS WHO CHOOSE NOT TO - try supporting their club? 15,000 at say £12 a go - that's getting into about FOUR MILLION POUNDS. Job done. Financial Fair Play, no problem. Better players, sure. Time for the 'fans' to do their bit, instead of blaming everyone else.
Right, I'm off to the game. Anyone else going?

 

[Flying Fokker]

Isn't the aim to get rid of SISU? Catch 22. The more that come, the longer they stay.
The less that go to matches, the closer we get to going bust.

 

[CJparker]

Not me mate, ur basically saying the council should use bully tactics that u have criticized sisu for using. Even though I agree with wat sisu are trying to do I don't agree with how they have gone about it and wouldn't condone it.

No, it's not bullying to insist on being paid who you are contractually owed.

 

[CJparker]

The problem with this is that it all hinges on somebody wanting to buy us.

I'm just not convinced that this somebody exists.

True, at the moment that's the problem. With SISU gone, ACL could even acquire CCFC on the cheap and offer the club+stadium as a single package, which would interest many investors who are not currently up for buying the club alone. It was never the council's intention to own ACL long term, so this should suit them too.

 

[CJparker]

Isn't the aim to get rid of SISU? Catch 22. The more that come, the longer they stay.
The less that go to matches, the closer we get to going bust.

Yep - but if the council stick to their guns and don't givem ore concessions to SISU, SISU will be forced to leave.

 

[CJparker]

I respect that, it's people like CJ who grind me with not even acknowledging the rent was too high as it was

No. Because the rent is nothing to do with the Champ average, it is do with our own circumstances. A third party provided £30m in emergency external funding in exchange for the ownership and agreement on a rental agreement. In the private sector, £100k per month would be deemed perfectly fair. £100k p/a would seen you laughed out of the door.

You have to accept that on the commercial environment we were in, the rent was not too high.

But let's face it, even if the rent was £0 p/a each and every year, CCFC would still be losing millions per year. The rent in many ways is the least of our problems. The whole business model is flawed, which is why we have lost money under successive regimes, not just SISU

 

[torchomatic]

And then we cross our fingers, touch wood and clutch our rabbits' foot to our breast that someone else comes in.

Yep - but if the council stick to their guns and don't givem ore concessions to SISU, SISU will be forced to leave.

 

[torchomatic]

Well not only SISU say it is, but it seems the previous regime said it was four months after the first match. ACL have reduced it by two thirds which tells it's own story.

You have to accept that on the commercial environment we were in, the rent was not too high.

 

[CJparker]

And then we cross our fingers, touch wood and clutch our rabbits' foot to our breast that someone else comes in.

That's right Torch...but at the moment I can't see an alternative. It is a risk, but not as much of a risk of having SISU at the helm indefinitely - or are you a fan of third party debt orders and transfer embargos?

Personally I prefer to support the team without worrying about the boardroom.

 

[hamil99]

No, it's not bullying to insist on being paid who you are contractually owed.

Not allowing them to build a new stadium, if a piece of land with the proper characteristics for a football ground within the Coventry limits is found, because they want the football club to be owned by someone else. Sounds like bullying to me.

 

[CJparker]

Well not only SISU say it is, but it seems the previous regime said it was four months after the first match. ACL have reduced it by two thirds which tells it's own story.

Oh, Coventry City said that Coventry City's rent was too high. What a shock. That doesn't mean t was - any tenant will want to reduce their rent, that's a fact of life.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Yep - but if the council stick to their guns and don't givem ore concessions to SISU, SISU will be forced to leave.

Surely though nobody else would want to come in on the same terms.

 

[torchomatic]

If that was the case then the Landlord would say "fuck off", not reduce it by two thirds.

I think you're the only one who thinks it's fair.

Oh, Coventry City said that Coventry City's rent was too high. What a shock. That doesn't mean t was - any tenant will want to reduce their rent, that's a fact of life.

 

[Grendel]

Yep - but if the council stick to their guns and don't givem ore concessions to SISU, SISU will be forced to leave.

Yes they will leave. We will be relegated at leash two divisions providing the conference agree to accept us all players contracts will be cancelled and we will be looking at gates of 4,000.

We also will not have a ground as there would be no way we would be able to justify the spend

So your previous ACL the subsidised council quango which we now know has struggled previously will get nothing from their main cash is.

As a so called supporter your comments are a disgrace

You are a disgrace.

 

[torchomatic]

Oh, they will because the rent is "fair and equitable". Investors will be falling over themselves to get such a bargain rent.

Surely though nobody else would want to come in on the same terms.

 

[CJparker]

Surely though nobody else would want to come in on the same terms.

Agreed - but the council can reduce the terms for someone else - but just not SISU

 

[lordsummerisle]

Agreed - but the council can reduce the terms for someone else - but just not SISU

But that would mean the council subsidising the club at the expense of the poor pressed council tax payers of the area surely?

Outrageously morally wrong isn't it?

 

[CJparker]

Yes they will leave. We will be relegated at leash two divisions providing the conference agree to accept us all players contracts will be cancelled and we will be looking at gates of 4,000.

We also will not have a ground as there would be no way we would be able to justify the spend

So your previous ACL the subsidised council quango which we now know has struggled previously will get nothing from their main cash is.

As a so called supporter your comments are a disgrace

You are a disgrace.

That's a load of suppositions in there. We do not need to be reliant on SISU.

You are right in a way I am not a supporter of SISU.

You're the disgrace, trying to justify each and every one of their immoral actions. Are you Fisher in disguise?

 

[CJparker]

But that would mean the council subsidising the club at the expense of the poor pressed council tax payers of the area surely?

Outrageously morally wrong isn't it?

Not if ACL sell the ground to another party.

The main thing is to get SISU out and to keep the pressure on them until they leave.

 

[hamil99]

Agreed - but the council can reduce the terms for someone else - but just not SISU

An investor will see how the previous tenants have been treated and run a mile. Remember the council picked sisu.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes they will leave. We will be relegated at leash two divisions providing the conference agree to accept us all players contracts will be cancelled and we will be looking at gates of 4,000.

We also will not have a ground as there would be no way we would be able to justify the spend

So your previous ACL the subsidised council quango which we now know has struggled previously will get nothing from their main cash is.

As a so called supporter your comments are a disgrace

You are a disgrace.

Quite what your employers would think of 'contracts are there to be broken' would be interesting to know.

 

[CJparker]

Not allowing them to build a new stadium, if a piece of land with the proper characteristics for a football ground within the Coventry limits is found, because they want the football club to be owned by someone else. Sounds like bullying to me.

No it's called fighting fire with fire. The council should not be a pushover - it's taxpayers money at the end of the day.

Even if the club was allowed to build a new ground, it wouldn't happen as it is not economically viable to do so - whatever TF says

 

[torchomatic]

I wish I had £1 for every time I read that in one of your posts.

Quite what your employers would think of 'contracts are there to be broken' would be interesting to know.

 

[CJparker]

Quite what your employers would think of 'contracts are there to be broken' would be interesting to know.

Well we can all presume that Grendel aka TF is employed by SISU, so we do know what they think. They think that anything can be justified if it is in your interests, any any interest in fair play and reasonableness is a disgrace. Funny old world they live in.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Not if ACL sell the ground to another party.

The main thing is to get SISU out and to keep the pressure on them until they leave.

No mention of ACL selling the ground to another party.

You just said that the council should subsidise the club as long as it's not Sisu who own it, which takes away the "moral" argument you and others spout.

 

[CJparker]

I wish I had £1 for every time I read that in one of your posts.

Yes- because it's true. You cant go round with this attitude of "I support whatever is good for CCFC" if by doing that it's screwing other people over and acting unethically.

ACL have done nothing wrong and this is all a big attempt by SISU to smash and grab to get the Ricoh. Stop lying to yourself and wake up - it is a self-made crisis which is becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Grendel]

That's a load of suppositions in there. We do not need to be reliant on SISU.

You are right in a way I am not a supporter of SISU.

You're the disgrace, trying to justify each and every one of their immoral actions. Are you Fisher in disguise?

Due to the business structure of debt liquidation is very very real. The consequence of that is catastrophic.

The business model is a disaster and will put off any potential saviour

You stick your had in the sand and ignore all the weight of evidence. Make no mistake extinction is round the corner.

Other clubs forced the council to back off. The utterly stupid stance you and your idiotic cohorts are taking will assist in this clubs demise. We are near the play offs and your only interest is in feeding a quango yet I know with absolute certainty you would not have bothered last time we defaulted on payments.

 

[CJparker]

No mention of ACL selling the ground to another party.

You just said that the council should subsidise the club as long as it's not Sisu who own it, which takes away the "moral" argument you and others spout.

Read my longer post a couple of pages back when I specifically said that the Ricoh should be sold to a new owner along with the club as a single package - none of the SISU brigade have been able to argue against that end-to-end scenario.

 

[torchomatic]

So, should not a potential new investor be worried about the attitude of the Council?

Not if ACL sell the ground to another party.

The main thing is to get SISU out and to keep the pressure on them until they leave.

 

[CJparker]

Due to the business structure of debt liquidation is very very real. The consequence of that is catastrophic.

The business model is a disaster and will put off any potential saviour

You stick your had in the sand and ignore all the weight of evidence. Make no mistake extinction is round the corner.

Other clubs forced the council to back off. The utterly stupid stance you and your idiotic cohorts are taking will assist in this clubs demise. We are near the play offs and your only interest is in feeding a quango yet I know with absolute certainty you would not have bothered last time we defaulted on payments.

I agree with most of this - but let's be clear - it is SISU's fault!! The rent is only a small portion of the overall losses, which are SISU's responsibility. The fact of our predicament is entirely SISU's responsibility. You cannot get away from that.

Did you support forcing the council to "back off" when CCFC went to them with cap in hand asking for millions in subidy to get the ground finished? No. You want to have your cake and eat it - you want a free ground ffs. Just grow up.

 

[Grendel]

Read my longer post a couple of pages back when I specifically said that the Ricoh should be sold to a new owner along with the club as a single package - none of the SISU brigade have been able to argue against that end-to-end scenario.

We will be in the conference. We will have to leave the ground.

Question answered.

 

[lordsummerisle]

Read my longer post a couple of pages back when I specifically said that the Ricoh should be sold to a new owner along with the club as a single package - none of the SISU brigade have been able to argue against that end-to-end scenario.

Lots of things "should" happen, I should have a 12 inch cock and Kylie Minogue in my bed every night, you should have a brain, and MMM should have been born in the 15th Century, but doesn't necessarily mean that they all will happen.

Try working with what we have, rather than what you wish we had.