ACL Shoot themselves in the foot & The Fans in the Head (2 Viewers)

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GaryJones

GaryJones

Well-Known Member
ACL pushed Sisu into sending the club into Admin and in turn resulting in the points deduction which effectively ends our season - If ACL had waited until the end of the season we might have made the play-offs and promotion which would have resulted in more money and a better chance of the club being able to meet ACLs demands over the preceeding seasons.
"We couldnt take the risk that Sisu wouldnt liquidate the club - thats why we did it" what a load of bollocks - why would Sisu liquidate the club completely?
This season is all but over for the fans and what we now probably ALL are doing is adding the 10 points back on to see where we would have finished! Whats the betting that we defy the odds and finish in the "virtual" top six?
Just our luck...............
 
Flying Fokker

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
So, you are angry, no? This argument has been done a million times. Some of us agree with you, some don't. Many a wasted word on here and we are still no nearer the new beginning.

Where have you been the last month?
 
GaryJones

GaryJones

Well-Known Member
Sitting in a corner with my face to the wall - fuming! Another wasted season albeit for different reasons than the last 10!
 
CJparker

CJparker

New Member
SISU would liquidate because there would be no cost to them, because they could use the losses to write off tax on some of their other investments. That would be far preferable for them than being forced to sell at a huge loss by ACL's administrator.
 
Samo

Samo

Well-Known Member
I think you should go back to your corner.
 
Baginton

Baginton

New Member
it was a front like all other statements, to get what they want, business talk...:facepalm:


They WOULDN'T have done it :facepalm:
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
CJparker

CJparker

New Member
In the contest of "who has the biggest balls", SISU are starting to resemble a pair of tiny shrivelled up sun-dried prunes
 
Q

quinn1971

Well-Known Member
So long as it means the end of sisu its worth the end- 10 points.Couldn't of seen us going up in the play offs anyway.Perfect timing for a takeover now.Just hope all the news I've been hearing is true.
 
James Smith

James Smith

Well-Known Member
GaryJones said:
ACL pushed Sisu into sending the club into Admin and in turn resulting in the points deduction which effectively ends our season - If ACL had waited until the end of the season we might have made the play-offs and promotion which would have resulted in more money and a better chance of the club being able to meet ACLs demands over the preceeding seasons.
"We couldnt take the risk that Sisu wouldnt liquidate the club - thats why we did it" what a load of bollocks - why would Sisu liquidate the club completely?
This season is all but over for the fans and what we now probably ALL are doing is adding the 10 points back on to see where we would have finished! Whats the betting that we defy the odds and finish in the "virtual" top six?
Just our luck...............
Click to expand...

So ACL get a court date after the end of the same and then SISU decide to do the same thing then as they did now, put Ltd into admin. The Football League decide that we did this to stay in the playoffs and punish us by docking us more points than we've currently lost or keeping us down if we had managed to go up.
 
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stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
CJparker said:
SISU would liquidate because there would be no cost to them, because they could use the losses to write off tax on some of their other investments. That would be far preferable for them than being forced to sell at a huge loss by ACL's administrator.
Click to expand...

OSB wrote this post a couple of weeks ago detailing the benefits of admin and liquidation.

administration or liquidation is not a good option really but it appears to be where we are heading

I dont get the distinction that the OP makes between apparently no tax losses in admin and a tax advantage in liquidation.

If the club goes into liquidation then SISU lose an apparent £45m ............. my guess is the funds are based in Cayman isles or something so not sure on the tax treatment..... if it was UK based they would save 23% of the £45m = 10.4m. But they would lose, the golden share, the option on the Ricoh, a lease, the players they could sell because all contracts are broken

if the club goes into admin CVA with new owners coming in and sisu leaving ........ then say they pick up 2m for the name etc and 1p in the £ in the CVA they still have tax losses of £42.5 m at 23% (9.8m) = 12.2m approx. Club can still exist and it still has golden share, the option to purchase etc. SISU might even put in a clause to receive more dependent on success

Admin could be a better option on that basis

in both situations there are capital losses to be crystallised

Even if there is a tax advantage to liquidation by using the losses the saving is a max of £10.4m ........ it still means they lose £35m of their clients money.

Reply
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
James Smith said:
So ACL get a court date after the end of the same and then SISU decide to do the same thing then as they did now, put Ltd into admin. The Football League decide that we did this to stay in the playoffs and punish us by docking us more points than we've currently lost or keeping us down if we had managed to go up.
Click to expand...

Where in the ACL politburo do you work? Ministry for talking drivel?
 
CJparker

CJparker

New Member
Grendel said:
Where in the ACL politburo do you work? Ministry for talking drivel?
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Unbelievable - our problems begin and end at home, ACL are blameless. Things won't improve until SISU are slung out of Coventry. Just accept it.
 
M

Macca

Well-Known Member
The adding on points thing to see where we would have finished is futile. We won t be playing under pressure now so it's an unfair comparison. We can play with freedom and no stress.
 
CJparker

CJparker

New Member
stupot07 said:
OSB wrote this post a couple of weeks ago detailing the benefits of admin and liquidation.

administration or liquidation is not a good option really but it appears to be where we are heading

I dont get the distinction that the OP makes between apparently no tax losses in admin and a tax advantage in liquidation.

If the club goes into liquidation then SISU lose an apparent £45m ............. my guess is the funds are based in Cayman isles or something so not sure on the tax treatment..... if it was UK based they would save 23% of the £45m = 10.4m. But they would lose, the golden share, the option on the Ricoh, a lease, the players they could sell because all contracts are broken

if the club goes into admin CVA with new owners coming in and sisu leaving ........ then say they pick up 2m for the name etc and 1p in the £ in the CVA they still have tax losses of £42.5 m at 23% (9.8m) = 12.2m approx. Club can still exist and it still has golden share, the option to purchase etc. SISU might even put in a clause to receive more dependent on success

Admin could be a better option on that basis

in both situations there are capital losses to be crystallised

Even if there is a tax advantage to liquidation by using the losses the saving is a max of £10.4m ........ it still means they lose £35m of their clients money.

Reply
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Well I have consistently stated that SISU are unlikely to liquidate, please feel free to check my many posts to prove that point.

The reason I began to doubt my view on this, which is broadly in line with OSB's comment above, is that Tim Fisher stated publicly that "we may have no choice but to file for liquidation" - I know a few insolvency practictioners who think that SISU could do better than OSB reckons out of liquidation, but as I am not an expert myself I couldn't really say.

Ultimately, it was TF who stated that he was pretty much on the verge of filing for liquidation or admin, so you CANNOT blame ACL for trying to forestall this by putting their admin application to the court.

Remind me Stupot. who was it that actually put us into admin? Was it ACL? No, it was SISU.
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
"ACL are blameless". Brilliant.
 
CJparker

CJparker

New Member
GaryPendrysEyes said:
Sisu are responsible for the well being of this club. They have clearly failed. End of.
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Quite right.

The sad thing about all the misguided ACL bashing is that it prevents people from seeing the real causes of our plight - these begin and end at home, and we can't start to solve them until we recognise that.
 
CJparker

CJparker

New Member
torchomatic said:
"ACL are blameless". Brilliant.
Click to expand...

Love it...snide comments rather than logical and reasoned rebuttal. As fucking usual. Doesn't matter how many times I demolish you and demonstrate how worthless is your argument, just let a day or so pass, go onto a new thread and start spitting poison again.

Can't be arsed any more tonight. See you at Walsall. I'll be one of the vast majority letting our owners know exactly who we all know is the root cause of our problems.
 
Baginton

Baginton

New Member
CJparker said:
Well I have consistently stated that SISU are unlikely to liquidate, please feel free to check my many posts to prove that point.

The reason I began to doubt my view on this, which is broadly in line with OSB's comment above, is that Tim Fisher stated publicly that "we may have no choice but to file for liquidation" - I know a few insolvency practictioners who think that SISU could do better than OSB reckons out of liquidation, but as I am not an expert myself I couldn't really say.

Ultimately, it was TF who stated that he was pretty much on the verge of filing for liquidation or admin, so you CANNOT blame ACL for trying to forestall this by putting their admin application to the court.

Remind me Stupot. who was it that actually put us into admin? Was it ACL? No, it was SISU.
Click to expand...


TF was just saying that as a way of getting what he wanted

ACL were going to to put the club into admininstration, so SISU DID it to get their choice of administrator in, so really ACL ACTUALLY really put us in as they set the court date to do it!
 
grego_gee

grego_gee

New Member
CJparker said:
Love it...snide comments rather than logical and reasoned rebuttal. As fucking usual. Doesn't matter how many times I demolish you and demonstrate how worthless is your argument, just let a day or so pass, go onto a new thread and start spitting poison again.

Can't be arsed any more tonight. See you at Walsall. I'll be one of the vast majority letting our owners know exactly who we all know is the root cause of our problems.
Click to expand...

At least we have owners (at the moment!)- you and your mates constantly seem to think we would be better off without any!

:pimp:
 
S

SkyBlueHomer

New Member
Said before ACL are a business & at some point want paying what they are owed. 10 points lost due to admin? how many points lost due our awful home record & us starting the season in October not August like eveyone else
 
P

procdoc

Well-Known Member
GaryJones said:
ACL pushed Sisu into sending the club into Admin and in turn resulting in the points deduction which effectively ends our season - If ACL had waited until the end of the season we might have made the play-offs and promotion which would have resulted in more money and a better chance of the club being able to meet ACLs demands over the preceeding seasons.
"We couldnt take the risk that Sisu wouldnt liquidate the club - thats why we did it" what a load of bollocks - why would Sisu liquidate the club completely?
This season is all but over for the fans and what we now probably ALL are doing is adding the 10 points back on to see where we would have finished! Whats the betting that we defy the odds and finish in the "virtual" top six?
Just our luck...............
Click to expand...

Most uninformed bull I've read on this forum
 
J

Jack Griffin

Guest
The way I see it is this...

SISU were moving the operational side of the club from CCFC Ltd to CCFc(H) Ltd.
Before they moved everything.. ACL put CCFC into admin.
Had ACL not done that the next step for SISU was to liquidate CCFC Ltd and break the rent contract.

Decide for yourself if that tactic is ethical.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
CJparker said:
Doesn't matter how many times I demolish you and demonstrate how worthless is your argument, .
Click to expand...

This from a man who argues;

Andy Thorn was the best manager since Jimmy Hill
Chris Coleman was doing a great job moving the club forwards
The Jamaican International Marlon King should be in the next England Squad
 
Samo

Samo

Well-Known Member
torchomatic said:
Annoying when people don't agree with you, isn't it?
Click to expand...

It is a bit yes. It's always pitiful to watch stupid people getting fucked over.. and then begging for more! It's not nice to watch, you just want to help them somehow but alas...
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Samo said:
It is a bit yes. It's always pitiful to watch stupid people getting fucked over.. and then begging for more! It's not nice to watch, you just want to help them somehow but alas...
Click to expand...

So let's get this right your with CJ on this debate yes?
 
Sky Blues

Sky Blues

Active Member
GaryJones said:
ACL pushed Sisu into sending the club into Admin and in turn resulting in the points deduction which effectively ends our season - If ACL had waited until the end of the season we might have made the play-offs and promotion which would have resulted in more money and a better chance of the club being able to meet ACLs demands over the preceeding seasons.
"We couldnt take the risk that Sisu wouldnt liquidate the club - thats why we did it" what a load of bollocks - why would Sisu liquidate the club completely?
This season is all but over for the fans and what we now probably ALL are doing is adding the 10 points back on to see where we would have finished! Whats the betting that we defy the odds and finish in the "virtual" top six?
Just our luck...............
Click to expand...

So you don't think Sisu not paying any rent for a year had anything to do with this mess then?
 
James Smith

James Smith

Well-Known Member
Jack Griffin said:
The way I see it is this...

SISU were moving the operational side of the club from CCFC Ltd to CCFc(H) Ltd.
Before they moved everything.. ACL put CCFC into admin.
Had ACL not done that the next step for SISU was to liquidate CCFC Ltd and break the rent contract.

Decide for yourself if that tactic is ethical.
Click to expand...
And we still don't really know 100% for sure who has the Golden Share. The league seem to think it's CCFC Ltd who do and from my limited understanding, that SISU couldn't have transferred it without their say so. Which company fielded a team on Friday and who is fielding one tomorrow CCFC Ltd, or CCFC Holdings. Who holds the player registrations and if it isn't in the same company as the Golden Share why not. That just exposes us again to more risk, we could find that the League have reason to dock more points.

Oh and whilst were on this topic does anyone know what (if any) payments there are for the places you finish in league one at the end of the season* and how much they are?

*Like there are in the Champion and Premierships
 
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