john mutton (9 Viewers)

[Jack Griffin]

@Grendel, are you a living in Coventry, if not then local politics is something you can only adopt a posture over, if you are then why not stand against Labour, but let me know where you are standing as that may inflence my vote, which is not going to Labour in any case.

 

---

[Nonleagueherewecome]

The western film?

Pick up the gun....I said, pick up the gun

Of course that scene gains mucho credit from the Bill Hicks adaptation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfL4S5nI3Kw

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

This from someone who had never even heard of thatchers predecessor.

Mutton has to go.

What has that got to do with anything!?

It was a statement to do with political banter which both sides give as good as they take.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I work for the Council and we've been taking calls from the public and angry at this. Thing is Mutton emailed Cllr Chater, then Chater accidently emailed every single Councillor that Thatcher should have been hung in the 80's from the flagpole on the council house - he accidently send it to all the Councillors, including the conservative ones.

Shouldn't have said it, I'm not saying it wasn't wrong, but, at the end of the day, politics is pretty nasty.

 

[blueflint]

personally maggie was a right bitch and ruined the north of england and scotland so i for one won't mourn her passing i won't be a hippocrite

 

[wingy]

As always when someone as devisive/cantankerous as MT dies ,the dark side of thier charater gets glossed over.Its natural enough to eulegise at someones passing,but the medias attempts to aasuage naturally vented anger is scandalous.
THERE IS NO SOCIETY SHE SAID.
FRANKLY THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY,but then we knew that did,nt we?!!!!

 

[Grendel]

Why? Because you're a Tory and your feelings are hurt? Plenty of people had a lot more than feelings hurt by her.

Interesting how you assume i am a Tory. I think from memory I voted once for conservatives in my life.

 

[RichieGunns]

Frankly that matters not though I think it shows an ignorance of the reality of 1979. There is no question without at least two thatcher terms this country would have been bankrupt.

This however is hardly the point. Mutton is in a respected position. He has shown disrespect and put the council in disrepute. As stu observed a council worker would be held out for the slaughter if he did it.

His position is not tenable. This country needs to act with dignity regardless of viewpoint politically on such occasions how can the masses do this when even elected leaders act with such crass insensivity?

Grendal, I respect your opinion but don't call me Ignorant until you know exactly what my opinion is and how much knowledge I have of what was going on at the time.

Trust me you wouldn't be calling me ignorant if you knew what I actually know! I can go and source some of my posts off facebook for you that I posted the day she died.

I even lost a friend of 10 years because he didn't like my opinion! lol But THAT is definately besides the point.

I know exactly WHY she did what she did. I just don't agree with HOW she did it! The same goes for this government! They are bringing in changes to the welfair state because it needs to be changed but the reasons they are using to do it are the WRONG reasons!

The Philpot comments by Osbourne are just one of many things I find diplorable about our present government. But anyway back to Football!

 

[theferret]

As always when someone as devisive/cantankerous as MT dies ,the dark side of thier charater gets glossed over.Its natural enough to eulegise at someones passing,but the medias attempts to aasuage naturally vented anger is scandalous.
THERE IS NO SOCIETY SHE SAID.
FRANKLY THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY,but then we knew that did,nt we?!!!!

She did say "there is no such thing as society", but this is the full quote:

"There is no such thing as society. There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate."

In the context in which it was said, this quote is not nearly as controversial as people claim. It's all semantics.

 

[theferret]

I've long been of the opinion that Mutton is an idiot. An embarrassment really, this is a man that wears trade union pin-badges when meeting big-business. Is it any wonder nobody wants to invest in Coventry when this is the first person they are presented with?

And yet, people keep voting for them. The near 70 year stewardship of Labour in this city has been a disaster, they have failed in almost every conceivable way. This isn't a general party political point by the way, there are other local authority areas where the Labour Party have done a very good job.

The problem in this city is that the local Labour party is dominated by old-school hard left trade unionists. It is an old-boy network. They are dinosaurs.

I understand Coventry is a Labour city and will be for a good many years I suspect, but that doesn't mean the people have to accept the low-calibre politicians that are thrust upon them. We had a chance with the elected mayor vote to change that and make the man/woman at the top more accountable, but we voted against that too. The result, Mutton is re-appointed to position of leader by his 'comrades'. And the needle returns to the start of the song and we all sing along like before...

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Interesting how you assume i am a Tory. I think from memory I voted once for conservatives in my life.

UKIP? BNP? Your political views suggest you are not left of centre. Ah, of course-Monster Raving Loonie. Should have realised :facepalm:

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

She did say "there is no such thing as society", but this is the full quote:

"There is no such thing as society. There is living tapestry of men and women and people and the beauty of that tapestry and the quality of our lives will depend upon how much each of us is prepared to take responsibility for ourselves and each of us prepared to turn round and help by our own efforts those who are unfortunate."

In the context in which it was said, this quote is not nearly as controversial as people claim. It's all semantics.

If you agree with her and don't believe in society I'm sure that's true..the fact is that there was a very real consequence of those words. Ask anyone in Local Government.

 

[Grendel]

UKIP? BNP? Your political views suggest you are not left of centre. Ah, of course-Monster Raving Loonie. Should have realised :facepalm:

Ultimately the problem you have is you make assumptions based on a broad brush interpretation of issues. On some issues regarding the environment and animal welfare I would be classed I suppose in your simplistic terms as left wing. Economic strategy less so.

BNP is somewhat of an offensive accusation and if you knew me patently absurd. What do they stand for on some issues? I would suspect they are anti EU anti NATO and anti nuclear -- bit like the Labour Party in 1982.

 

[theferret]

If you agree with her and don't believe in society I'm sure that's true..the fact is that there was a very real consequence of those words. Ask anyone in Local Government.

Well, I believe in liberty. I believe in freedom of the individual, and that individuals and families should take more responsibility for themselves and help those around them, rather than rely on an over-bearing state to provide everything. So in that sense, I agree with her; but equally that doesn't mean I don't believe in 'society' in its purest definition.

Also lots that she did I disagreed with. The world is not black and white I'm afraid.

 

[rupert_bear]

Strange we have someone apart from the miners and TU things almost certainly and IMO probably personally covered up the Hillsbrough tragedy, called Nelson Mandella a terrorist, openly supported the South African apartied government and the eventually executed despot Nicolae Ceausescu of Romania, yet here we have thread after thread about a comment made in jest privately but "apparently" accidently made public. I don't really have an opinion on councillor Mutton although despite what i have just said re. Thatcher I think thoughts of her death should be kept out of the public domain by politicians especially.
Knowing Margeret Thatcher she would be very happy about these comments which may give support to this present vicous Tory government who are far from finished yet in their prolonged attack on the sick, disabled, poor and vunarable of our society.
Forget Thatcher, beware of the Eton boys

 

[theferret]

BNP is somewhat of an offensive accusation and if you knew me patently absurd. What do they stand for on some issues? I would suspect they are anti EU anti NATO and anti nuclear -- bit like the Labour Party in 1982.

The great irony is that the BNP are actually statist in their outlook - they are a far-left party in many respects (they are pro-trade union, anti free-market, advocate the re-nationalisation of industry and would seek to suppress the individual freedoms many on the right hold dear). It's no surprise the BNP get most of their support in traditional working class areas, because they speak their language (albeit with an unpleasant racist twist).

 

[TurkeyTrot]

Well, I believe in liberty. I believe in freedom of the individual, and that individuals and families should take more responsibility for themselves and help those around them, rather than rely on an over-bearing state to provide everything. So in that sense, I agree with her; but equally that doesn't mean I don't believe in 'society' in its purest definition.

Also lots that she did I disagreed with. The world is not black and white I'm afraid.

But due to her policies and that of new labour society in general are unable (and unwilling) to take responsibility for those around them because they are too busy trying to keep their own heads above water. Do you know the folk next door? Or the ones two doors down? Or the couple across the road? My parents did. I don't.

 

[Grendel]

The great irony is that the BNP are actually statist in their outlook - they are a far-left party in many respects (they are pro-trade union, anti free-market, advocate the re-nationalisation of industry and would seek to suppress the individual freedoms many on the right hold dear). It's no surprise the BNP get most of their support in traditional working class areas, because they speak their language (albeit with an unpleasant racist twist).

Yes they are essentially an extremely militant anti democratic institution who wants to destroy the fabric of society.

Precisely the same as the militant unionists of the late 70's.

Thatcher is blamed for crushing the miners but if the picketing was legal this could not have had police intervention. It was illegal as it was a non democratic dictate from the comrades at the top who used their members to further their own ideology.

 

[theferret]

Yes they are essentially an extremely militant anti democratic institution who wants to destroy the fabric of society.

Precisely the same as the militant unionists of the late 70's.

Thatcher is blamed for crushing the miners but if the picketing was legal this could not have had police intervention. It was illegal as it was a non democratic dictate from the comrades at the top who used their members to further their own ideology.

Indeed, the NUM brought down the Heath Government. No single trade-union should have that much power. MT was determined that was not going to happen again, and what unfolded was was unpleasant and not a great chapter in British history.

Let's not forget though, more coal mines closed under Harold Wilson than Margaret Thatcher, but the left forget that, in fact the entire 1970s seem to have been erased from their memories. Power-cuts, tax rates of 98%, dead bodies piling up in warehouses because nobody would bury them. 1978, what a great year that was.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Well, I believe in liberty. I believe in freedom of the individual, and that individuals and families should take more responsibility for themselves and help those around them, rather than rely on an over-bearing state to provide everything. So in that sense, I agree with her; but equally that doesn't mean I don't believe in 'society' in its purest definition.

Also lots that she did I disagreed with. The world is not black and white I'm afraid.

For her it was the liberty to exploit others. That's why The Economist hailed her as a "freedom fighter" this week-plainly absurd given that she considered a real freedom fighter in Mandela to be a terrorist.

 

[mrtickle]

Strange we have someone apart from the miners and TU things almost certainly and IMO probably personally covered up the Hillsbrough tragedy, called Nelson Mandella a terrorist, openly supported the South African apartied government and the eventually executed despot Nicolae Ceausescu of Romania, yet here we have thread after thread about a comment made in jest privately but "apparently" accidently made public. I don't really have an opinion on councillor Mutton although despite what i have just said re. Thatcher I think thoughts of her death should be kept out of the public domain by politicians especially.
Knowing Margeret Thatcher she would be very happy about these comments which may give support to this present vicous Tory government who are far from finished yet in their prolonged attack on the sick, disabled, poor and vunarable of our society.
Forget Thatcher, beware of the Eton boys

Mandela was a commander in the armed wing of the ANC which bombed government buildings. That pretty much fits the bill of a terrorist. Would you say Adams and McGuinness weren't terrorist?

 

[japandy]

I care not Cllr. Mutton's opinion on politics, or on religion, because they are individual rights and in this fair country are the hallmarks of a democracy. But for a person in the public eye and in a City that puts great value on peace Cllr Hutton has not shown the value of life. His mail, to colleagues, is both childish and disrespectful and I am sure if he had overheard a child saying these things would have told the youngster off. In the past few months Cllr Hutton has come into our lives not through political mastery but through the administration of our club and now voicing a disrespectful comment while representing our City.
If Cllr Hutton craves so much attention I suggest he buy himself a teddybear.

 

[theferret]

But due to her policies and that of new labour society in general are unable (and unwilling) to take responsibility for those around them because they are too busy trying to keep their own heads above water. Do you know the folk next door? Or the ones two doors down? Or the couple across the road? My parents did. I don't.

Sorry, don't recognise that description. I know my neighbours and speak to them regularly. I guess you just have to make the effort.

It typifies the ridiculous sense of entitlement many in this country have that they blame the Government for the fact they cannot be bothered to speak to their neighbours anymore. It is absurd. What is it you want the Government to do that will make it more likely you will be more pleasant and friendly to those that live next door?

You could argue that the breakdown in some communities is down (at least in part) to mass immigration - but you can't say that, in fact the people who argue that communities have broken down and blame politicians for it are the very people who tell you that you cannot blame it on immigration.

They prefer to try and make a party political point. Funny though, that in many parts of America, where the people are hard-working and decidedly right-wing, there is a wonderful sense of community. What does that prove? Nothing really, it is just the way it is. It is far more complex than blaming one individual politician you didn't like.

 

[mrtickle]

I care not Cllr. Mutton's opinion on politics, or on religion, because they are individual rights and in this fair country are the hallmarks of a democracy. But for a person in the public eye and in a City that puts great value on peace Cllr Hutton has not shown the value of life. His mail, to colleagues, is both childish and disrespectful and I am sure if he had overheard a child saying these things would have told the youngster off. In the past few months Cllr Hutton has come into our lives not through political mastery but through the administration of our club and now voicing a disrespectful comment while representing our City.
If Cllr Hutton craves so much attention I suggest he buy himself a teddybear.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I don't agree with a lot of things thatcher did but I'm not rejoicing she is dead. I wonder if Mutton would be up in arms if a Tory had sent a similar email if a labour leader died?

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Ultimately the problem you have is you make assumptions based on a broad brush interpretation of issues. On some issues regarding the environment and animal welfare I would be classed I suppose in your simplistic terms as left wing. Economic strategy less so.

BNP is somewhat of an offensive accusation and if you knew me patently absurd. What do they stand for on some issues? I would suspect they are anti EU anti NATO and anti nuclear -- bit like the Labour Party in 1982.

Well no individual fits perfectly into an ideology or party. Your views all round mean I've put you in the box you fit most comfortably in from what I can see.

 

[theferret]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I don't agree with a lot of things thatcher did but I'm not rejoicing she is dead. I wonder if Mutton would be up in arms if a Tory had sent a similar email if a labour leader died?

When Harold Wilson was dieing, MT when to visit him in hospital and spent some time with him.

A formidable political foe he might have been, but she respected him.

Compare that to her political opponents cracking open bottles of champagne because an old lady has passed away. Some people have no class.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Mandela was a commander in the armed wing of the ANC which bombed government buildings. That pretty much fits the bill of a terrorist. Would you say Adams and McGuinness weren't terrorist?

It's only terrorism if the regime is legitimate; was the attempt to kill Hitler terrorism? From the Nazi's perspective, yes, but to anyone else with a pulse it was the correct thing to do.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I don't agree with a lot of things thatcher did but I'm not rejoicing she is dead. I wonder if Mutton would be up in arms if a Tory had sent a similar email if a labour leader died?

You're totally missing the point. The fact that she was cold and emotionless when it comes to the suffering of millions needs to be considered. Essentially, she was a bitch, and revelled in her reputation. She wouldn't want her enemies crying for her, she'd want us cursing her and buring her effigy. To censor people's views on her is totally undemocratic. She wasn't the queen! She was a mean hearted politician who caused misery and suffering to many. Of course we're glad she's dead!

 

[theferret]

You're totally missing the point. The fact that she was cold and emotionless when it comes to the suffering of millions needs to be considered. Essentially, she was a bitch, and revelled in her reputation. She wouldn't want her enemies crying for her, she'd want us cursing her and buring her effigy. To censor people's views on her is totally undemocratic. She wasn't the queen, she wasn't She was a mean hearted politician who caused misery and suffering to many. Of course we're glad she's dead!

Hysterical nonsense. The British people suffered more in the 1970s than they did in the 1980s when living standards were raised considerably (both in relative and real terms). You talk as if you knew her personally? She wasn't emotionless; hardly, she was a very emotive person. She didn't revel in her reputation either, she just got on with doing what she thought was right. She took on and defeated some very very nasty and unpleasant people on the far left, and the public thanked her for it, because you may not have noticed, she won every election she contested. In 1987 (after many of the important battles had been won) it was another landslide. Large swathes of the working class voted for her because she like nobody before had empowered them to better themselves.

She wasn't perfect. The poll tax was stupid, and her attitude along with Reagan to SA was questionable, and there were many other things I disagreed with.

And no, you should not censor people, but equally if they are free to say what they like, then they must be prepared to deal with any criticism that comes their way for saying it.

 

[Ashdown1]

You're totally missing the point. The fact that she was cold and emotionless when it comes to the suffering of millions needs to be considered. Essentially, she was a bitch, and revelled in her reputation. She wouldn't want her enemies crying for her, she'd want us cursing her and buring her effigy. To censor people's views on her is totally undemocratic. She wasn't the queen! She was a mean hearted politician who caused misery and suffering to many. Of course we're glad she's dead!

Others on the idiotic left will celebrate when the Queen dies though won't they??

 

[Skybluerevolution (Pt2)]

He is a moron and should be signing on now - however not that keen on Thatch she was a vile women, but Councillor Moron should not get involved in such things...

 

[Grendel]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I don't agree with a lot of things thatcher did but I'm not rejoicing she is dead. I wonder if Mutton would be up in arms if a Tory had sent a similar email if a labour leader died?

Good point. I think we all know the answer.

 

[valiant15]

I would of given her one to get rid of sisu though;-)

 

[Grendel]

I would of given her one to get rid of sisu though;-)

Would that also apply to councillor mutton?

 

[mrtickle]

It's only terrorism if the regime is legitimate; was the attempt to kill Hitler terrorism? From the Nazi's perspective, yes, but to anyone else with a pulse it was the correct thing to do.

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. The ira believe they are legitimate. It doesn't make it right. I strongly agree that how the whites ruled in SA was wrong but what won was politics not killing!