john mutton (21 Viewers)

[TurkeyTrot]

Hysterical nonsense. The British people suffered more in the 1970s than they did in the 1980s when living standards were raised considerably (both in relative and real terms). You talk as if you knew her personally? She wasn't emotionless; hardly, she was a very emotive person. She didn't revel in her reputation either, she just got on with doing what she thought was right. She took on and defeated some very very nasty and unpleasant people on the far left, and the public thanked her for it, because you may not have noticed, she won every election she contested. In 1987 (after many of the important battles had been won) it was another landslide. Large swathes of the working class voted for her because she like nobody before had empowered them to better themselves.

She wasn't perfect. The poll tax was stupid, and her attitude along with Reagan to SA was questionable, and there were many other things I disagreed with.

And no, you should not censor people, but equally if they are free to say what they like, then they must be prepared to deal with any criticism that comes their way for saying it.

You talk as if you knew personally the very very nasty and unpleasant people in the far left.
Oh, and yes I did know a couple of these very very nasty and unpleasant people in the far left.

 

---

[valiant15]

Only with torchy's

Would that also apply to councillor mutton?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Others on the idiotic left will celebrate when the Queen dies though won't they??

There is no coherent left. Hasn't been for decades. My Gran was active in the Labour Party that grew out of the Second World War. Opportunity, fair pay and respect for all. How the hell did this denigrate into the militancy of the '70's which flew directly in the face of that the true Labour Party stood for. It ultimately gave ride to jobs being lost and industries decimated. To look at what happened to our once proud automotive industry makes me angry.

In the year before MT took power, 28 million working days were lost to industrial action. Ten years later in was down to 2. The country was being strangled by unions, not set on protecting and enhancing valuable jobs, but by serving their own politik. The working man ultimately lost. It may be claimed its due to MT, but it's more due to the acidic unions who ruined so much during the 70's. As an aside, manufacturing output rose by 7% during the Thatcher years, but was down again by the end of Brown's tenure.

Do I state such as a Thatcher fan? Hell no. I bloody hate Tories. But I hate more the way the true Labour Party has been hijacked for over 40 years, and has little or no interest in representing those my gran taught me were sacrosanct

 

[lordsummerisle]

But due to her policies and that of new labour society in general are unable (and unwilling) to take responsibility for those around them because they are too busy trying to keep their own heads above water. Do you know the folk next door? Or the ones two doors down? Or the couple across the road? My parents did. I don't.

Are they swingers then?

 

[Grendel]

There is no coherent left. Hasn't been for decades. My Gran was active in the Labour Party that grew out of the Second World War. Opportunity, fair pay and respect for all. How the hell did this denigrate into the militancy of the '70's which flew directly in the face of that the true Labour Party stood for. It ultimately gave ride to jobs being lost and industries decimated. To look at what happened to our once proud automotive industry makes me angry.

In the year before MT took power, 28 million working days were lost to industrial action. Ten years later in was down to 2. The country was being strangled by unions, not set on protecting and enhancing valuable jobs, but by serving their own politik. The working man ultimately lost. It may be claimed its due to MT, but it's more due to the acidic unions who ruined so much during the 70's. As an aside, manufacturing output rose by 7% during the Thatcher years, but was down again by the end of Brown's tenure.

Do I state such as a Thatcher fan? Hell no. I bloody hate Tories. But I hate more the way the true Labour Party has been hijacked for over 40 years, and has little or no interest in representing those my gran taught me were sacrosanct

100% agree with all of that

 

[Jimmy Hill's Chin]

The man is a total clown, symptomatic of the leadership which has let this City down for decades now. There has been no aspiration shown by our civic leaders and that's part of the reason why the football , the rugby club and the city itself is in such a sad state.

 

[dongonzalos]

I just hope JM stays if he goes at this critical time it may give SISU more reason to try and stay as they may think they will break a different leader if the council.

Well they will think it is worth a try anyway

 

[deanocity3]

is there a saying mutton dressed as lamb

 

[psgm1]

Political banter, both sides give and take, the right were delighted when Hugo Chavez died, Thatcher's left equivalent accept Hugo Chavez is, was more popular, in office for longer, more democratic and didn't use tyrannical methods to disperse his opponents.

I take it you never heard of his crimes then! How

"Under Chávez, Venezuela became an Oral Republic, a place where an off-the-cuff remark could land you in jail, end your job, see your property seized, or, alternatively, set an orgy of petrodollar spending loose on your community"

You GENUINELY comparing thatcher to him? Are you MENTAL? He ran a dictatorship! Its laughable how the loonies have a go at Thatcher - when their own poster boy Blair sent the country to war not once but TWICE on a lie!

 

[TheRoyalScam]

Council united against SISU

I just hope JM stays if he goes at this critical time it may give SISU more reason to try and stay as they may think they will break a different leader if the council.

Well they will think it is worth a try anyway

Interesting point, dongonzalos, however all sides of the council were thankfully united in arranging the £14m restructuring of the ACL mortgage, and saw through SISU's attempt to distress ACL.

For once I'm happy that all the council, from councillors to executives, are singing from the same hymn sheet when it comes to the SISU/ACL/Ricoh debacle.

 

[Grendel]

I take it you never heard of his crimes then! How

"Under Chávez, Venezuela became an Oral Republic, a place where an off-the-cuff remark could land you in jail, end your job, see your property seized, or, alternatively, set an orgy of petrodollar spending loose on your community"

You GENUINELY comparing thatcher to him? Are you MENTAL? He ran a dictatorship! Its laughable how the loonies have a go at Thatcher - when their own poster boy Blair sent the country to war not once but TWICE on a lie!

For once you talk sense. The comparison is ridiculous. I'm almost embarassed for him.

 

[Paxman II]

I won't weigh in to this argument other than to say the respect this country has for the highest office in the state is deplorable.
No matter the politics, the policy or whatever where is respect?

There's little patriotism left in this country and we dismiss the idea of respecting MT and the high office of Prime Minister like it didn't matter?

Cllr. Mutton has disgraced his office. Has disgraced himself. He should quickly resign or be booted out.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

The obsession with respect is pathetic. You want me to respect somebody who I don't respect-who I absolutely fucking loath? No chance. Give me one reason why I should?

One thing that her defenders have in common is that they obviously weren't on the bread line when she was in power like so many were. It's hard to respect somebody who was responsible for your family not being able to afford food or to heat your house when you were a kid! I wrote her a letter about it when I was 7, but I never got a reply..It's very easy to patronise from a smug middle-class ideological standpoint.

 

[Paxman II]

The obsession with respect is pathetic. You want me to respect somebody who I don't respect-who I absolutely fucking loath? No chance. Give me one reason why I should?

One thing that her defenders have in common is that they obviously weren't on the bread line when she was in power like so many were. It's hard to respect somebody who was responsible for your family not being able to afford food or to heat your house when you were a kid! I wrote her a letter about it when I was 7, but I never got a reply..It's very easy to patronise from a smug middle-class ideological standpoint.

You should wash your mouth out with soap. You clearly are not very intelligent or you would understand having respect for the office of Prime Minister. For achieving such high office and to lead your country is deserving of respect in itself. You can loath MT all you want and I don't give a dam but I will respect your opinion.

Just the basic human respect for the dead who have passed on and had their time would be the correct thing to do.

These 'parties' are just bunches of lefty sheep having a laugh at the dead and show no remorse or respect for the dead person or their family. Disgraceful behaviour.

You are nothing short of contemptible. Your ideology is flawed and you lack the brains to figure it out based purely on your own back ground. Insular and pathetic.

Let me tell you back in the mid '80s I was on the dole. I sold everything I had to put into a risky venture, lived off bacon sandwiches for the most part and found ways to get stuff done for little cost and begged and borrowed and and got help from tradesman and suppliers who believed in me. I lived in a caravan for months with a car that was on it's knees. I made that business a great success. To suggest someone like me was 'obviously not on the bread line' again is in itself disrespectful. Stop judging people ass hole!

I know plenty of working class who always voted for MT. I know plenty who vote labour who based on class you would have thought otherwise. MT didn't create division it's people like you that do that.

 

[japandy]

Good posts by all even for the ones I don't agree with.

I was listening to Radio 4 extra the other evening and a stand up comedian was on. He was making jokes about age and suddenly asked the audience, 'Who is over 45?' I was shocked because not one person shouted out. He then said tht he was not surprised and that most people over 45 don't attend live comedy shows. He said that with his experience the over 45s become cynical of life, and as I am now around that age I felt sad. Of course he is right and I can only pray that I don't become the norm. I have always used Shakespeare's 'seven ages of man' from As You Like It as a guide for avoid the stereotype of middle-age. Reading this thread I feel this comedian knows us more than ourselves. I grew up under the Thatcher era and disliked her policies so much I left our country for foreign lands. But, I hope, as Ferret said, I have 'the class' within me to respect the person even though I didn't agree with their ways. I pray that bitterness never enters my heart and that I never take myself too seriously. I am a teacher, not a preacher, so I won't preach about the values of life. If a person wishes to be hard-hearted that is their choce but I do believe they miss something in life by being that way. My answer to life is simple. Pray and laugh. I would suggest a few of us on here should get out more and go watch stand up comedy. Oh! wait we do! We go watch the City. boom boom.

 

[WestEndAgro]

Excellent post, very knowledgeable well said "Pax"

You should wash your mouth out with soap. You clearly are not very intelligent or you would understand having respect for the office of Prime Minister. For achieving such high office and to lead your country is deserving of respect in itself. You can loath MT all you want and I don't give a dam but I will respect your opinion.

Just the basic human respect for the dead who have passed on and had their time would be the correct thing to do.

These 'parties' are just bunches of lefty sheep having a laugh at the dead and show no remorse or respect for the dead person or their family. Disgraceful behaviour.

You are nothing short of contemptible. Your ideology is flawed and you lack the brains to figure it out based purely on your own back ground. Insular and pathetic.

Let me tell you back in the mid '80s I was on the dole. I sold everything I had to put into a risky venture, lived off bacon sandwiches for the most part and found ways to get stuff done for little cost and begged and borrowed and and got help from tradesman and suppliers who believed in me. I lived in a caravan for months with a car that was on it's knees. I made that business a great success. To suggest someone like me was 'obviously not on the bread line' again is in itself disrespectful. Stop judging people ass hole!

I know plenty of working class who always voted for MT. I know plenty who vote labour who based on class you would have thought otherwise. MT didn't create division it's people like you that do that.

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

You should wash your mouth out with soap. You clearly are not very intelligent or you would understand having respect for the office of Prime Minister. For achieving such high office and to lead your country is deserving of respect in itself. You can loath MT all you want and I don't give a dam but I will respect your opinion.

Just the basic human respect for the dead who have passed on and had their time would be the correct thing to do.

These 'parties' are just bunches of lefty sheep having a laugh at the dead and show no remorse or respect for the dead person or their family. Disgraceful behaviour.

You are nothing short of contemptible. Your ideology is flawed and you lack the brains to figure it out based purely on your own back ground. Insular and pathetic.

Let me tell you back in the mid '80s I was on the dole. I sold everything I had to put into a risky venture, lived off bacon sandwiches for the most part and found ways to get stuff done for little cost and begged and borrowed and and got help from tradesman and suppliers who believed in me. I lived in a caravan for months with a car that was on it's knees. I made that business a great success. To suggest someone like me was 'obviously not on the bread line' again is in itself disrespectful. Stop judging people ass hole!

I know plenty of working class who always voted for MT. I know plenty who vote labour who based on class you would have thought otherwise. MT didn't create division it's people like you that do that.

Mostly pious rubbish.
And If you think MT 'didnt create division' you must have been medicated or are a bit dim. FFS she is dead and still creating division!

 

[Grendel]

Mostly pious rubbish.
And If you think MT 'didnt create division' you must have been medicated or are a bit dim. FFS she is dead and still creating division!

Considering you have a distinction you seem incapable ever of having a mature debate.

Where are you facts, where are your debating skills?

Which aspects are incorrect? Show some knowledge of the subject instead of childish playground banter.

You come across as someone sadly lacking I'm afraid.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Hysterical nonsense. The British people suffered more in the 1970s than they did in the 1980s when living standards were raised considerably (both in relative and real terms). .

Given the fact that, from your profile, you were just 4 years old at the turn of the eighties, I will be gentle in simply saying that this is very possibly the most ridiculous statement I have read on these boards.

 

[Flying Fokker]

These people are loopy. To even spend time demonstrating their pleasure at someone's death is a basic marker as to what kind of people they are/ have been turned in to. Basic decency has deserted them and they are as partisan as any right wing organisation out there at the moment.

She was no Hitler, Mussolini or Saddam Hussein. She was elected and given the political mandate to push through her ism.....whether that is what people wanted is another thing.

As for this song....I hope the money goes to a good cause.

 

[Grendel]

The obsession with respect is pathetic. You want me to respect somebody who I don't respect-who I absolutely fucking loath? No chance. Give me one reason why I should?

One thing that her defenders have in common is that they obviously weren't on the bread line when she was in power like so many were. It's hard to respect somebody who was responsible for your family not being able to afford food or to heat your house when you were a kid! I wrote her a letter about it when I was 7, but I never got a reply..It's very easy to patronise from a smug middle-class ideological standpoint.

Respect is the benchmark of a stable society. Lack of respect shows anarchic tendency. You are not seriously naive enough to believe that most of the people who will protest and cause disturbance are doing so because its Thatcher are you? They will do so as they want to cause disruption and create disorder.

You should step out of the sixth form debating society and enter the real world.

Answer -- what did you want in 1979? In the 70's we had days without power, millions of days lost in productivity, a bankrupt economy with no future, mortuaries stuffed full of the dead, bins lying uncollected for weeks. Is this your vision of a fair society, of social utopia?

Or how about the Labour Party of the 80's? Pull out of NATO, pull out of the common market (BNP policies I would hazard a guess at), keep the 33% tax rate for the people they represent? A junk party that were cap in hand to the unions.

Strange also how for someone so fair minded you rant on about the miners and their plight. This plight was caused by anti democratic process from Scargill.

So your vision seems to be to have fascist style anti democratic alternatives.

You seem upset as you didn't get a letter when 7. Isn't it about time you grew up?

 

[Flying Fokker]

The man is a total clown, symptomatic of the leadership which has let this City down for decades now. There has been no aspiration shown by our civic leaders and that's part of the reason why the football , the rugby club and the city itself is in such a sad state.

You really think that about your city? What have you done to improve it,? this sad state you talk about is an amalgam of social and political wills for the good of its people. Does it have to be perfect for you to take part?

What are you comparing it with? The face of private enterprise in this city has some successes but also some massive failures in the form of SISU to name but one.

 

[shropshirecov]

Given the fact that, from your profile, you were just 4 years old at the turn of the eighties, I will be gentle in simply saying that this is very possibly the most ridiculous statement I have read on these boards.

You're not seriously suggesting the 70's were better than the eighties? Now that would be a ridiculous statement!
Most people celebrating her death are either middle class lefties who hated the fact she'd given the (hardworking) working class a chance to better themselves, or the social media Chav followers.

 

[Flying Fokker]

Respect is the benchmark of a stable society. Lack of respect shows anarchic tendency. You are not seriously naive enough to believe that most of the people who will protest and cause disturbance are doing so because its Thatcher are you? They will do so as they want to cause disruption and create disorder.

You should step out of the sixth form debating society and enter the real world.

Answer -- what did you want in 1979? In the 70's we had days without power, millions of days lost in productivity, a bankrupt economy with no future, mortuaries stuffed full of the dead, bins lying uncollected for weeks. Is this your vision of a fair society, of social utopia?

Or how about the Labour Party of the 80's? Pull out of NATO, pull out of the common market (BNP policies I would hazard a guess at), keep the 33% tax rate for the people they represent? A junk party that were cap in hand to the unions.

Strange also how for someone so fair minded you rant on about the miners and their plight. This plight was caused by anti democratic process from Scargill.

So your vision seems to be to have fascist style anti democratic alternatives.

You seem upset as you didn't get a letter when 7. Isn't it about time you grew up?

Mr Grendel., We agree. : )

 

[Flying Fokker]

You're not seriously suggesting the 70's were better than the eighties? Now that would be a ridiculous statement!
Most people celebrating her death are either middle class lefties who hated the fact she'd given the (hardworking) working class a chance to better themselves, or the social media Chav followers.

Massive brush being used there....isn't that the case in politics anyway? Social and sectoral cleavages will always be the norm here. But isn't the real point that there has to be a basic level of respect for people? I'm not sure many academics will be demonstrating their pleasure at her death.. Demonstrating.

 

[japandy]

I was not one of Maggies happy followers and as I said I left the country because of the lack of job opportunities at that time, but rather than be against her I thank her because I'm loving life. Thatcher gave many people the chance to buy their houses and that was a plus but politically I would say 'I differ from her'. But, she was a character and society was great to grow up in. I loved punk and ska. I loved the humour that existed then. I love the fashion and the energy of the people, and I would say alot of that was down to Thatcherism'. Protests were common-place but Thatcher went on record as saying a society with rebellious young people was a healthy one.

 

[Flying Fokker]

I was not one of Maggies happy followers and as I said I left the country because of the lack of job opportunities at that time, but rather than be against her I thank her because I'm loving life. Thatcher gave many people the chance to buy their houses and that was a plus but politically I would say 'I differ from her'. But, she was a character and society was great to grow up in. I loved punk and ska. I loved the humour that existed then. I love the fashion and the energy of the people, and I would say alot of that was down to Thatcherism'. Protests were common-place but Thatcher went on record as saying a society with rebellious young people was a healthy one.

She also said 'there is no such thing as society'

"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

Respect is the benchmark of a stable society. Lack of respect shows anarchic tendency. You are not seriously naive enough to believe that most of the people who will protest and cause disturbance are doing so because its Thatcher are you? They will do so as they want to cause disruption and create disorder.

You should step out of the sixth form debating society and enter the real world.

Answer -- what did you want in 1979? In the 70's we had days without power, millions of days lost in productivity, a bankrupt economy with no future, mortuaries stuffed full of the dead, bins lying uncollected for weeks. Is this your vision of a fair society, of social utopia?

Or how about the Labour Party of the 80's? Pull out of NATO, pull out of the common market (BNP policies I would hazard a guess at), keep the 33% tax rate for the people they represent? A junk party that were cap in hand to the unions.

Strange also how for someone so fair minded you rant on about the miners and their plight. This plight was caused by anti democratic process from Scargill.

So your vision seems to be to have fascist style anti democratic alternatives.

You seem upset as you didn't get a letter when 7. Isn't it about time you grew up?

Can't believe I am saying this, but I AGREE 100% WITH GRENDEL.

I do not belong to any political party, there should be no such profession as "politician" and the very idea of a "political party" is an abomination. We elect a person to represent US on a local or national stage, and that is all they should be doing.
I am not on the left or the right, but as someone who stands outside of politics, I have to say that it is nearly always the socialists/communists/lefties who are vitriolic and full of hate and incapable of accepting defeat gracefully. It is the political left that seem to be prepared to climb into bed with anyone if it will get them into power. Note that I say this as an independent with no political axe to grind.
Thatcher did what was necessary at the time. The miners were the highest paid workers in the country at the time, and yet they still went on strike for even more. The unions were a hidden and unelected government who's intent was to rule the country (on behalf of their Moscow comrades?). They were violent and nasty and underhanded and truly undemocratic. Why do you think that they fought so hard to prevent the secret ballot? Because even their own (forced?) membership would have voted in the majority against them. Their power had to be broken, and Thatcher was the only person of any political abomination/party with the courage to do what had to be done.
How can anyone that is fair-minded and unbiased not see this? To then party and make up disgusting songs about her death is pathetic in the extreme.
(and before you ask, I come from a very working class background; on my father's Welsh side I come from a long line of miners. My great grandfather Henry John Adams heads the list of those that died in the Risca Colliery disaster, along with several of his relatives).

 

[Deleted member 4439]

The miners were the highest paid workers in the country at the time, and yet they still went on strike for even more.

No, this is revisionism. The miners went on strike in response to the planned pit closures. As revealed at the time by the Economist magazine, a decision had been taken as far back as 1975, following the defeat of Heath by the Unions, to sacrifice the coal industry in defeat of Unionism.

As an aside, manufacturing output rose by 7% during the Thatcher years, but was down again by the end of Brown's tenure.

No, this is incorrect. Due to productivity gains as a result of technology, manufacturing output has never been on anything other than an upward trend. The exception to this was between 1980 and 1984, when it actually showed both a nominal and real terms decline, recovering to mid 1970s levels only by 1988. By the end of GBs tenure, manufacturing was at its highest peak to that date, fuelled of course by the Labour Govt's borrowing and further de-regulation of the financial industry, a course set for us by MT.

Some of the manufacturing names we lost in Coventry the early 1980s: Alvis, Wickmans, Massey-Ferguson, Herbert-Morrison. As Mutton has said, in one year alone we lost 26,000 manufacturing jobs.

Personally, there was an upshot to MT's economic policy that benefitted me. As a young single lad with no commitments, I found myself in the very early 80s working one-day a week at Chrysler-Talbot, laid off on the other four days on 75% pay. When the redundancies finally came I found myself with a very generous payout that afforded me a very nice motorbike.

 

[japandy]

[That is one of the best pieces i have read in a long time. well said FF

QUOTE=Flying Fokker;421670]She also said 'there is no such thing as society'

"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And, you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."[/QUOTE]

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Considering you have a distinction you seem incapable ever of having a mature debate.

Where are you facts, where are your debating skills?

Which aspects are incorrect? Show some knowledge of the subject instead of childish playground banter.

You come across as someone sadly lacking I'm afraid.

From a man who spends most of his time on here routinely, childlishly and arrogantly insulting people.
Grovel you are one hypocritical cock!

-- Is there really a 'debate' on whether Thatcher divided the country? even Cameron said that in his tribute. What next Grendel debates whether the earth is flat?

 

[Grendel]

No, this is revisionism. The miners went on strike in response to the planned pit closures. As revealed at the time by the Economist magazine, a decision had been taken as far back as 1975.

Sadly you are omitting one little fact. The labour administration of the 60's and 70's closed more pits that thatchers.

It was a dying uncompetitive industry. Income tax rates were colossal to support these ailing loss making giants.

The idea scargill was a great warrior who sensed what thatcher was to do is a fairy tale. Wilson was far more effective at closing mines

Scargill was anti democratic a ridiculous but dangerous Marxist who was prepared to use honest and decent men to further his warped ideology.

The other thing I find someone amusing are the young generation who boo and hiss and say look what they did to the miners. No doubt this cosy little socialists will the flowing week be on a march protesting about dirty fuels and supporting ecology. The irony will be lost on them.

I do blame her for the treatment afterwards of the miners who obeyed the law and formed a democratic union. She threw them to the wolves afterwards and that was shameful.

However I'm afraid you need to look at Harold Wilson. For the start of the end of the mining industry. Strange no one mentioned it when he died.

 

[Ashdown1]

People can argue the pro's and Cons of MT and her effect on the UK at the time and going forward, its all very debatable. I was not a fan as a young man but can understand a lot more of why she did what she did now, 25 years later. All that said I categorically insist that in these times of our declining economy and hardships for many, the public purse should not be paying for the funeral of someone who was undoubtedly very wealthy and indeed spent the last 3 months of her life in a suite at the Ritz !! How insulting is that to those who are now being made redundant in public spending cuts !

 

[dongonzalos]

Andy Thorn would have done a better job than Maggie

 

[Grendel]

It is of course the case that the closure of pits began in the sixties, and that this brought less resistance due to the availability of manufacturing jobs at the time. I think your reposte misses the point however. The politcal thrust behind the reason to accelerate the closures - even of profitable pits - has been well-documented. It is an irony indeed that the politics were supported by an increase in regressive taxes imposed by the govt of 1979-83 and the use of NSO proceeds.

Political motivation played a part on both sides.

The fact remains thatcher was elected through democratic process. Scargill used anti democratic means to try and bring down an elected institution.

Scargill reminds me of Field Marshall Haig in the Great War. A dispassionate obsessive who saw his own troops as dispensable commodities while sitting back well away from the battle enjoying the fruits of capitalism.

When these dreadful anti democrats leave this earth I suspect their political enemies will ultimately treat their passing with respect. I think that shows class and dignity.

The spiteful ill informed drivel that has come since thatchers passing undermines us as a nation.