john mutton (15 Viewers)

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I take it you never heard of his crimes then! How

"Under Chávez, Venezuela became an Oral Republic, a place where an off-the-cuff remark could land you in jail, end your job, see your property seized, or, alternatively, set an orgy of petrodollar spending loose on your community"

You GENUINELY comparing thatcher to him? Are you MENTAL? He ran a dictatorship! Its laughable how the loonies have a go at Thatcher - when their own poster boy Blair sent the country to war not once but TWICE on a lie!

Mr Hugo Chavez ran a dictatorship? What evidence? He was elected, he had a mandate to rule unlike this coalition (if the Liberals voted who to partner with, their followers would've went with Labour), the people also did not vote for a coalition. Here's a quick comparison with Venezuela:
-UK has unelected Head of State, Venezuela does not.
- UK has an unelected second chamber, Venezuela does not.
- The UK parliament is dictatorial with the whip system and with a large majority, whoever is in power could effectively pass what they like, hence the term Elective Dictatorship, coined by Lord Halsham.
- UK constitution is not written, and can be changed easily via passing of statutes, Venezuela, on the other hand, has a written constitution outlining basic human rights there, in the advent of a rogue government, UK citizens would/could see their 'rights' severely undermined.
- Hugo Chavez was elected in 1998, died in office 2013, he was elected to stay in office, in fact, Maduro, his successor, has just won the election called because of Chavez's death before he was sworn in!
- Some dictatorship!? :thinking about: :facepalm:

The Venezuelan politics is organised like US politics.

No, you, and Grendel are totally wrong, Venezuela is a more democratic than the UK, in fact, the UK, I would say the UK is a 'limited dictatorship', quick example, biggest protests ever (nearly 1m?) in UK before declaration of war v Iraq, what did Blair do? 3-line whip to muzzle his opponents within the party and didn't listen to popular sovereignty, democracy?

For once you talk sense. The comparison is ridiculous. I'm almost embarassed for him.

How is the comparison ridiculous!?

Just to add to the above, the USA and Chavez's opponents plotted a coup against Chavez in 2002, Chavez was removed from office, but strikes were so widespread he was reinstated. If the same thing happened to Thatcher in 1982, would the people push her back in? Would they strike to see the ConDem reinstated, we of course don't know, but I would be more inclined to say no.

 

---

[dadgad]

If it hadn't of been for Thatcher you'd all be living in mud huts these days under a looney labour government with hyper inflation.

A lot of idiots mouthing off and protesting about her weren't even born or were young children when she was in power. Says it all really

Depends how far you want to stick your head in the sand.
The kids if today have to live with the consequences of Thatcherism just as we all do. Living through something doesn't necessarily result in "understanding" as is typified by
some of the comments here.
Thatcher oversaw change but didn't have the intelligence or foresight to transform societies with a viable alternative.
The so called "rust bucket" industries needed transforming not wholesale closure. Her instinctive, reactive style of Govt. was borne by conviction........a superficial change which brought about a different perception of what Britain was, or had become. At best this was superficial - she talked about bringing hope, harmony and prosperity but in reality did the opposite. She lied about the IRA, politicised the police, (hillsborough) and spawned wankers like Blair.
All in all she was a triumph for style over substance - an intellectual Pygmy.

 

[torchomatic]

OK, "sort" out the miners. Don't destroy them and their livelihoods!

Yes, she had the balls to look after her core vote an bugger everyone else. Her policies were shortsighted and damaging.

Its hardly thatchers fault that British industry was uncompetitive and nationalized firms were public money black holes. Something had to be done and thatcher had the balls.

The unions needed sorting out as they were wrecking British industry not thatcher. Scargil
Destroyed the coal industry in this country.

I agree with you that council housing should have never been sold of though. It makes me mad people buy a house cheap then sell it on a few years later for a small fortune.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Its hardly thatchers fault that British industry was uncompetitive and nationalized firms were public money black holes. Something had to be done and thatcher had the balls.

The unions needed sorting out as they were wrecking British industry not thatcher. Scargil
Destroyed the coal industry in this country.

I agree with you that council housing should have never been sold of though. It makes me mad people buy a house cheap then sell it on a few years later for a small fortune.

I'll say the same to you as I did to Paxman11....Come to South Wales, or go to the "North East"...Say to them what you've said on here at the "Mines"...Lets see if you get back to Coventry in one piece
I've lived in South Wales since I retired from playing football in 83. I've seen the devastation caused by Thatcher. A devastation that people in the valleys still haven't got over to this day. Poverty still abounds in this day and age, and is still very much alive and kicking here in the "Valleys"

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

It's political correctness gone MAD.

Ironic, because people criticise PC for being 'leftie', but the 'rightists' got all uptight when someone celebrates Thatcher dying.

Look, as I've said, I don't condone Mutton saying what he did, that was pretty dark, BUT, at the end of the day, politics gets pretty nasty when you disagree with someone, and in fact this episode at least shows that not all Labour members/councillors/MPs etc. are all tory lite members, at least there is genuine difference and snarl between the parties.

I could guarantee you there are more on the left who are even happier than Thatcher to be dead. I hate her ideology and policies, and I think she was a genuinely nasty person (or at least her political persona) but as a fellow human, I won't celebrate her death nor no one's, but I am no where near mourning, and do not think she should have a state funeral A) it's against her wishes B) it's a kick in the teeth for those workers made redundant because of cuts and those who have been forced toward, or under the poverty line C) similar to B, a government paying 10+m for a funeral whilst cutting as much as they can, is a disgrace. I'm not a believer in state funerals tbh, I think they're a waste of money.

 

[Ashdown1]

OK, so no guarantee, but I would wager a bloody good chance. There's no denying (well, for some there is) Thatcher destroyed industry.

This country IS suffering due to Thatcher's policies: the social housing shortage (71% of council houses were sold to people living in them). Was the money used to build more homes? No it was used to pay debt, so that policy only benefited those who bought their council house. What about the local communities affected along with generations of families because she crushed the miners? It's a FACT that we import 60M tonnes of coal a year into Britain directly because of her actions. It's a scandal.

What about privatisation? British Gas, British Telecom, British Petroleum, British Airways, British Steel, water and electricity companies. There's a famous quote from a Tory at the time who said something like "if it moved, we privatised it". All privatisation did was make those firms put their shareholders before their customers. Still happens today.

Her absolute refusal to negotiate in Northern Ireland led to more deaths and more suffering.

I could go on and on. Usually, those we side with Thatcher are rich (or comfortable) enough for her policies not to affect them.

I don't completely disagree with much of what you say. Some of the large public enterprises though wouldn't have survived in todays competitive markets, at least not without throwing silly amounts of taxpayers money at them. As for housing.............it could be argued that way too much social housing has been given over to the last decades 4 million immigrants. Could we not re-open coal mines, if they were proven to be viable??............Or was the coal running out anyway? There is a significant division of wealth in the UK between North and South without doubt, I put that down to companies mainly trying to locate head offices nearest to the financial sector and tourists not travelling outside of London. Plus the logistics of being next to the EU for transport etc Successive governments have not addressed the overwhelming desire for business to shun the North and Midlands !

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Torchy...

Fine by me, SBK. The day I think I could "like" or agree with anything you say is the day I stick my head in an oven.

Get your oven on mate I see that like on SBK's post

 

[torchomatic]

Bugger. Forgot about that comment.

Torchy...




Get your oven on mate I see that like on SBK's post

 

[Houdi]

OK, so no guarantee, but I would wager a bloody good chance. There's no denying (well, for some there is) Thatcher destroyed industry.

This country IS suffering due to Thatcher's policies: the social housing shortage (71% of council houses were sold to people living in them). Was the money used to build more homes? No it was used to pay debt, so that policy only benefited those who bought their council house. What about the local communities affected along with generations of families because she crushed the miners? It's a FACT that we import 60M tonnes of coal a year into Britain directly because of her actions. It's a scandal.

What about privatisation? British Gas, British Telecom, British Petroleum, British Airways, British Steel, water and electricity companies. There's a famous quote from a Tory at the time who said something like "if it moved, we privatised it". All privatisation did was make those firms put their shareholders before their customers. Still happens today.

Her absolute refusal to negotiate in Northern Ireland led to more deaths and more suffering.

I could go on and on. Usually, those we side with Thatcher are rich (or comfortable) enough for her policies not to affect them.

Well as has been pointed out on here,more pits closed under Harold Wilson than ever closed under Thatcher,a fact that is always conveniently overlooked or ignored.Also always ignored is the fact that we actually have had since Thatcher, 13 years not 13 days of a Labour governments.How many pits did they reopen,how many union reforms did they change,how many industries did they renationalise.By not reversing these policies when they had huge majorities,would seem to prove an admittedly grudging acceptance,of much of what she did.
I wonder who Mutton blames for the closures of Longbridge,Peugeot Ryton,Peugeot Stoke,Marconi,Massey Ferguson,all local firms who actually closed under the Blair/Brown era?Or indeed who was in government when Toyote at Derby,or Nissan at Sunderland opened, notobably both northern cities.Why did the last Labour government allow the huge plant at Redcar to close in an already deprived part of the country.and in one of their heartlands,does that make them callous as well.

 

[fernandopartridge]

I don't completely disagree with much of what you say. Some of the large public enterprises though wouldn't have survived in todays competitive markets, at least not without throwing silly amounts of taxpayers money at them. As for housing.............it could be argued that way too much social housing has been given over to the last decades 4 million immigrants. Could we not re-open coal mines, if they were proven to be viable??............Or was the coal running out anyway? There is a significant division of wealth in the UK between North and South without doubt, I put that down to companies mainly trying to locate head offices nearest to the financial sector and tourists not travelling outside of London. Plus the logistics of being next to the EU for transport etc Successive governments have not addressed the overwhelming desire for business to shun the North and Midlands !

It was decent management they needed rather than investment. The national corporations were managed by the same old boys network that the MPs and their ilk come from, no wonder they were a shambles.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Bugger. Forgot about that comment.

Obviously so did SBK..

 

[torchomatic]

I don't disagree with you. However, you are talking about Blair and the bastard child called "New Labour", which was just the Tory party with a reddish tinge. I would love to have seen what John Smith would have done.

I'm a good old fashioned leftie me and no fan of Blair.

Well as has been pointed out on here,more pits closed under Harold Wilson than ever closed under Thatcher,a fact that is always conveniently overlooked or ignored.Also always ignored is the fact that we actually have had since Thatcher, 13 years not 13 days of a Labour governments.How many pits did they reopen,how many union reforms did they change,how many industries did they renationalise.By not reversing these policies when they had huge majorities,would seem to prove an admittedly grudging acceptance,of much of what she did.
I wonder who Mutton blames for the closures of Longbridge,Peugeot Ryton,Peugeot Stoke,Marconi,Massey Ferguson,all local firms who actually closed under the Blair/Brown era?Or indeed who was in government when Toyote at Derby,or Nissan at Sunderland opened, notobably both northern cities.Why did the last Labour government allow the huge plant at Redcar to close in an already deprived part of the country.and in one of their heartlands,does that make them callous as well.

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Thatcher the facts:

1. Unemployment shot up to levels not seen since the Great Depression,peaking at 5m, more than doubling from the previous govt
2. Poverty increased by 50%
3. The gap between rich and poor grew by 50% (according to most used measure)
4. Interest rates reached 17%

add in:

Give away privatisation of Britain's core Utilities - now much in overseas hands and largely for ideological reasons
Lack of any government plan or support to industry closures (mines, steel etc) and its effect on people/communities
Poll tax
Her immoral support to Pinochet and tacit support to South Africa
Her (dangerous) use of the police and state apparatus to limit freedom of movement and assembly (as part of anti-union legislation)
Her opposition to gay rights, notably Clause 28
The usual case of Tories getting working people to bare the brunt of recovering from the failures of industry and its leaders- where have we seen that before?

 

[Houdi]

I don't disagree with you. However, you are talking about Blair and the bastard child called "New Labour", which was just the Tory party with a reddish tinge. I would love to have seen what John Smith would have done.

I'm a good old fashioned leftie me and no fan of Blair.

Of course it is always easy to pretend that if only Smith had lived,things would have been so better/different.Don't forget it was the Labour party who wanted and voted for Blair.Plus at one stage Blair was virtuallly canonised by a lot of the media,and certainly by the BBC.Remember Jane Garvey's famous quote,'May 2nd 1997,the corridors of Broadcasting House were awash with empty bottles of champagne.'Of course Blair gave Labour voters what they craved,victory.However with power comes the realities of office,and like all Labour governments they eventually run out of other people's money.
Under Wilson we had virtual national bankruptcy,resulting in us going with a begging bowl to the IMF,Callaghan's government ended with the winter of discontent,and Brown's government ended up withus having a National Debt of over 1 trillion.The electorate had the chance to vote for a left wing socialist ( Michael Foot) in 1983,and we all now how that ended.Its manifesto earning the soubriquet as the longest suicide note in history.

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

oh and who could forget one of the most incompetent Chancellors ever, Norman Lamont...

Black Wednesday refers to 16 September 1992 when the British Conservative government was forced to withdraw the pound sterling from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM) after they were unable to keep it above its agreed lower limit.

In 1997 the UK Treasury estimated the cost of Black Wednesday at £3.4 billion, with the actual cost being £3.3 billion which was revealed in 2005 under the Freedom of Information Act (FoI)

 

[Skyblue4u]

oh and who could forget one of the most incompetent Chancellors ever, Norman Lamont...

Black Wednesday refers to 16 September 1992 when the British Conservative government was forced to withdraw the pound sterling from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM) after they were unable to keep it above its agreed lower limit.

In 1997 the UK Treasury estimated the cost of Black Wednesday at £3.4 billion, with the actual cost being £3.3 billion which was revealed in 2005 under the Freedom of Information Act (FoI)

Peanuts to what labour have done to this country over the past 10 years including brown selling off all our gold reserves at bargain basement prices :facepalm:

Labour have ruined life for a generation in their last term yet idiots are likely to vote them back in at the next election. We need another Thatcher to sort out this mess

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Peanuts to what labour have done to this country over the past 10 years including brown selling off all our gold reserves at bargain basement prices :facepalm:

Labour have ruined life for a generation in their last term yet idiots are likely to vote them back in at the next election. We need another Thatcher to sort out this mess

Hate to break it to you but we have just seen extreme Thatcher free market capitalism almost destroy the worlds economic system, we are talking about 100's billions in fact trillions of debt, caused by the unregulated 'unacceptable face of capitalism'. Its gonna take us decades to sort it out.

 

[Houdi]

oh and who could forget one of the most incompetent Chancellors ever, Norman Lamont...

Black Wednesday refers to 16 September 1992 when the British Conservative government was forced to withdraw the pound sterling from the European Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM) after they were unable to keep it above its agreed lower limit.

In 1997 the UK Treasury estimated the cost of Black Wednesday at £3.4 billion, with the actual cost being £3.3 billion which was revealed in 2005 under the Freedom of Information Act (FoI)

Ah the ERM,stage 1 of EMU,which was supported by virtually all the political classes,and eventually led to the EURO..Of course you are right it was a disaster to join the ERM,hence why a lot of people called it White Wednesday,when the markets forced us out of it.On leaving it interest rates tumbled,and the economy enjoyed years of positive growth.However the left overwhelming supported the creation of the EURO,with a few honourable exceptions,although finding people who now admit they originally supported the concept of the Euro,is like finding snow in the Sahara.
Of course it is the one thing to thank Brown for,in that he overruled Blair in us joining.Near 30% unemployment in countries like Greece and Spain,double that for youth unemployment,is a testament to the vanity of that project.

 

[procdoc]

Here are some more Thatcher facts:
1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher")
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
10. The poll tax
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
18. Section 28
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
23. She invented Quangos
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
31. BSE
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
42. 21.9% inflation

 

[Nick]

Imagine VAT at 8%

 

[dadgad]

Here are some more Thatcher facts:
1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher")
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
10. The poll tax
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
18. Section 28
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
23. She invented Quangos
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
31. BSE
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
42. 21.9% inflation

Add to that her febrile acknowledgement of "the environment" simply to ward off a revolt by the greens.
Like I said: all flannel no trousers
A terrible, terrible PM, whose acolytes appear as deluded as she was.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Imagine VAT at 8%

Imagine it at 20%

 

[Grendel]

Add to that her febrile acknowledgement of "the environment" simply to ward off a revolt by the greens.
Like I said: all flannel no trousers
A terrible, terrible PM, whose acolytes appear as deluded as she was.

So you wanted Michael foot as pm did you?

 

[Skyblue4u]

43, saved the country from economic ruin after booting labour out of office

Most of them points are bollox.

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

Bollocks. We'd still have a manufacturing industry, social housing for those that need it and we wouldn't be importing 60M tonnes of coal a year. The police at Hillsborough would also have been taken to task too.

I was around so I know what it was like and how tough it was in the early 80s. Without Thatcher we have a more compassionate Britain not obsessed with "me, me, me".

Horrible, horrible woman.

To quote you; Bollocks!
A lot of us were around in those days - why do you think being there makes you right and others wrong?
Without Thatcher, we quite possibly would be a communist country under USSR suppression and the Iron Curtain would still exist and have moved west to the Welsh coast.
We were the laughing stock of the western world being destroyed by undemocratic unions using the working class to violently push forward their political ideals that they could not obtain democratically.
A more compassionate Britain my arse!

 

[North York’s Blue]

Here are some more Thatcher facts:
1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher")
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
10. The poll tax
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
18. Section 28
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
23. She invented Quangos
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
31. BSE
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
42. 21.9% inflation

I don't know enough about politics to make any meaningful comment, however one question that intrigues me; why did the electorate continue to vote her back in??

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

There is no coherent left. Hasn't been for decades. My Gran was active in the Labour Party that grew out of the Second World War. Opportunity, fair pay and respect for all. How the hell did this denigrate into the militancy of the '70's which flew directly in the face of that the true Labour Party stood for. It ultimately gave ride to jobs being lost and industries decimated. To look at what happened to our once proud automotive industry makes me angry.

In the year before MT took power, 28 million working days were lost to industrial action. Ten years later in was down to 2. The country was being strangled by unions, not set on protecting and enhancing valuable jobs, but by serving their own politik. The working man ultimately lost. It may be claimed its due to MT, but it's more due to the acidic unions who ruined so much during the 70's. As an aside, manufacturing output rose by 7% during the Thatcher years, but was down again by the end of Brown's tenure.

Do I state such as a Thatcher fan? Hell no. I bloody hate Tories. But I hate more the way the true Labour Party has been hijacked for over 40 years, and has little or no interest in representing those my gran taught me were sacrosanct

Sensible and truthful post.
Now, if you had said I bloody hate politics and politicians and those abominations called political parties instead of restricting yourself to hating tories, I would have given you a "like".

 

[Grendel]

I don't know enough about politics to make any meaningful comment, however one question that intrigues me; why did the electorate continue to vote her back in??

Well you want get in answer will you? Is there one poster on here who would have wanted Michael foot and Anthony Wedgwood Benn in league with the dreadful jack jones and the other Marxist union leaders?

Not one has yet said they were the preferred alternative.

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

Imagine VAT at 8%

Don't have to imagine it. We HAVE 8% VAT in Switzerland.

 

[Grendel]

Don't have to imagine it. We HAVE 8% VAT in Switzerland.

Wasn't income tax under the caring Labour Party pre Thatcher 33%?

 

[wingy]

So you wanted Michael foot as pm did you?

I did:-......................

 

[procdoc]

Grendel, can you oppose any of the points I made on Thatcher in this thread or are you just going to spout your usual nonsense without actually making a point or giving a reasoned argument?

 

[Forza]

Well you want get in answer will you? Is there one poster on here who would have wanted Michael foot and Anthony Wedgwood Benn in league with the dreadful jack jones and the other Marxist union leaders?

Not one has yet said they were the preferred alternative.

Maybe because no one believes they were? Just because the alternative was worse, this kind of whatabouttery doesn't actually answer criticism of her time in office, some of which is fair IMO.

 

[Grendel]

Grendel, can you oppose any of the points I made on Thatcher in this thread or are you just going to spout your usual nonsense without actually making a point or giving a reasoned argument?

I will when I have time.

I've looked at Number One as we speak. Glad you are pleased Ian Huntley is still costing the tax payer.

 

[wingy]

Wasn't income tax under the caring Labour Party pre Thatcher 33%?

I would wager that income tax combined with all other taxes such as VATetc
would today outstrip all taxes paid back in the late 70's