CET: Sky Blues take Coventry City Council to high court over bailout (11 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Didn't they agree to cross invoice if that is the term all the F&B income not just the 80% that Compass don't get so that CCFC had more money under FFP?

ACL offered 80% of the F+B profits (Compass get the other 20%), and offered to cross invoice the total revenues on top for the club's FFP calculations. In 2011/12, when the average crowds were around 15k, this would have contributed around £1.1-1.2m extra to the club's accounts.

 

---

[James Smith]

If you read the answers the club gave to the Trust a short while ago, they say that the negotiating team (headed by TF) was only able to accept an offer which would get the club to at least a break even position. That is, so that the owners wouldn't have to put any more money in to the business.

I don't think ACL could have physically handed over enough money to make this possible.

Having read your post I just had a vision of that new Davina show where they have the hourglass filled with pound coins and they just flow away in their thousands when the thing is turned over. Don't know why but somehow it seemed similar in some way.

 

[cloughie]

Didn't they agree to cross invoice if that is the term all the F&B income not just the 80% that Compass don't get so that CCFC had more money under FFP?

yes they did

 

[James Smith]

What market is being distorted?

The market for 32,000 seat stadiums in Coventry that can be purchased on the cheap thanks to bankruptcy/administration cause in no small part by one of their tenants?

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Two options here:

SISU are complaining that the council aided ACL by lowering the mortgage interest payments, which in turn allowed ACL to make an vastly improved rent offer to the club. This shows SISU to be idiotic in the extreme.

OR

SISU are complaining that the council (which did not use taxpayers money to fund ACL) helped to ensure that the company that it jointly owned could not be put in distress by SISU not paying contracted rent, and denied SISU the chance to pick up the Ricoh on the sly. This shows SISU to be scum.

So:

Stupid or Scum?

Couldn't put it any better. I think I give up now, they really are a new class of arse.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Having read your post I just had a vision of that new Davina show where they have the hourglass filled with pound coins and they just flow away in their thousands when the thing is turned over. Don't know why but somehow it seemed similar in some way.

It all adds up to the blinding obvious, now made even more so today, that SISU wanted nothing shy of busting ACL and getting the Ricoh for diddly squat. Does it matter that a children's charity and Coventry taxpayers form this evil entity? Does it feck.

 

[James Smith]

Well to me it's either a delaying tactic or SISU believe they have a case.

As a delaying tactic I don't see the point, how would SISU be in a better place than they are now after the delay? The only thing I can think of is that they hope to put off any potential buyers but I'm still not sure why they want to stick around and what their plan to get their money back / exit strategy is.

If they have a genuine case it could get interesting but what would the end result be, a judge isn't going to just say hand over the keys to SISU! I wonder if SISU every approached Yorkshire Bank about buying the debt. If they did and recieved indication that they could buy it for somewhere in the £6m region then a whole can of worms could be opened up.

The most interesting thing in this is the fact that the money has actually come from taxpayers despite what everyone has been saying all along. What happens if it turns out the council can't get the loan when they need it or if they lose this case, would anyone give the council a loan for the full amount if it's been shown in court that the asset it is secured against is worth nowhere near the loan amount.

It depends I suppose if the asset is considered to be the lease or the entire stadium, and whether that asset has been distressed in value by the actions of one of the tenants by non payment of their rent.

 

[James Smith]

It all adds up to the blinding obvious, now made even more so today, that SISU wanted nothing shy of busting ACL and getting the Ricoh for diddly squat. Does it matter that a children's charity and Coventry taxpayers form this evil entity? Does it feck.

Wasn't aware it was a childrens charity, thought PWKH had said it was created to help the people of Coventry or something like that. I agree with you totally about the rest of the post though.

 

[DaleM]

If you read the answers the club gave to the Trust a short while ago, they say that the negotiating team (headed by TF) was only able to accept an offer which would get the club to at least a break even position. That is, so that the owners wouldn't have to put any more money in to the business.

I don't think ACL could have physically handed over enough money to make this possible.

Agreed .
We are talking £60 million quid which isn't gonna go away even if the club was breaking even each season.
Over 5 years the rent is £6 million . It doesn't take a genius to work out that the rent is not the issue.
To get rid of this debt CCFC have to make a profit, not just break even.
The interest payments alone on this debt are probably more than a million a season.
Shitsu have had 6 yrs to buy the Higgs part of the stadium and all the revenue that comes with that but never have.
In my opinion they have been out flanked and are now having a hissy fit .

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Wasn't aware it was a childrens charity, thought PWKH had said it was created to help the people of Coventry or something like that. I agree with you totally about the rest of the post though.

It was created to help disadvantaged children in Coventry I believe.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Taylor's 17.

My daughter is 18 and in the final 6 weeks of high school before going to University.
She only has to go in to school at certain times for the subjects she's taking for the Uni course, so she may go in at 11-00am for one hour for English and various times for her other two subjects.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Wasn't aware it was a childrens charity, thought PWKH had said it was created to help the people of Coventry or something like that. I agree with you totally about the rest of the post though.

It seems that a lot of posters couldn't be "Fecked" that a Childrens Charity are systematically being ripped apart by SISU....Some might wake up and smell the Shit that SISU are spreading eventually!:blue:

 

[rupert_bear]

If they have a genuine case it could get interesting but what would the end result be, a judge isn't going to just say hand over the keys to SISU! I wonder if SISU every approached Yorkshire Bank about buying the debt. If they did and recieved indication that they could buy it for somewhere in the £6m region then a whole can of worms could be opened up.

If sisu could buy the debt for 5/6million then so could someone else for lets say 7million, enter PHIV

 

[Godiva]

If sisu could buy the debt for 5/6million then so could someone else for lets say 7million, enter PHIV

If the debt is only worth £5m, what makes you think anybody would pay £7m?

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

It has been ACL's and CCC's policy to edge SISU out, now, they don't, shouldn't, have that power.

Shown when PWKH and another ACL person ties a 'SISU Out' balloon on Fisher's car, it was unprofessional, it compromised their impartiality, but most of all, how can they negotiate with people they treat with contempt? ACL have held back a deal just as much, if not more, than SISU.

FFS, why do you think they dislike SISU? If anybody has been treated with contempt it's ACL by SISU. I can't believe you are still so far up these fuckwits arseholes!

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

@ rupert bear...

I'm not a gambling man, ask Astute....I would be a richer man by £1k if I took his bet on...I digress.....Some are saying SISU are "Dragging this out for spite"
What if ACL/Higgs sell their share to PH 4th "In spite" of everything thats going on atm? I for one would love to see it happen, and start the rise of AFC Coventry Feck SISU off once and for all!

 

[derbyskyblue]

Yes I think it can. Just like everything else....too muc of a good thing...brings its virtues into question. Money is the root of all evil - and the love of it is the route to all evil. Too many people love money & simply cannot get enough of it.

There sounds a man who's skint.

 

[RPHunt]

Blatantly using ownership of a Football League club to distress the company managing a community asset.

I hope the Football League are taking note of this and will remember it when/if they have to decide if SISU are fit and proper owners.

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

I dont think theirs anything thing for us fans to worry over, its the last kickings of a dying dog. If the golden share is in the part of the club in administration, then surely all of this is a sideshow to any potential purchase? Sisu will have nothing, the player registrations have to stay with the golden ticket, no ticket, no players and no ground. At best all they can hope for is the council will get a smacked bum, the only downside i can see with this though is the club may end up loosing its training ground as that could still be theirs. The whole thing smacks of desperation, the council would have had to go through certain checks and balances legally before providing a loan, even if SISU have a piece of paper saying they could have bought the debt from the bank for 5 million it proves nothing. If the council did pay 14 million for the loan this may well have been the total loan, not the offer for someone to buy a debt from any potential administrator or debtor which is an entirely different thing. All SISU are doing at the moment is dragging their own name through the mud as well as the club, i think Miss Sepala may loose more than she bargained for if this continues for much longer.

 

[rupert_bear]

If the debt is only worth £5m, what makes you think anybody would pay £7m?

Who knows what the real debt is but the Yorkshire would sell to the highest bidder surely

 

[Moff]

This whole thing has the whiff of desperation and failure about it.

Why do it in the first place? well unless you are a hedge fund used to getting your'e own way, by using hard faced nastiness, and now that you arent you are resorting to straw clutching as you have no experience of coming second best?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I dont think theirs anything thing for us fans to worry over, its the last kickings of a dying dog. If the golden share is in the part of the club in administration, then surely all of this is a sideshow to any potential purchase? Sisu will have nothing, the player registrations have to stay with the golden ticket, no ticket, no players and no ground. At best all they can hope for is the council will get a smacked bum, the only downside i can see with this though is the club may end up loosing its training ground as that could still be theirs. The whole thing smacks of desperation, the council would have had to go through certain checks and balances legally before providing a loan, even if SISU have a piece of paper saying they could have bought the debt from the bank for 5 million it proves nothing. If the council did pay 14 million for the loan this may well have been the total loan, not the offer for someone to buy a debt from any potential administrator or debtor which is an entirely different thing. All SISU are doing at the moment is dragging their own name through the mud as well as the club, i think Miss Sepala may loose more than she bargained for if this continues for much longer.

Willy Wonka's thoughts on the situation...

[video=youtube;M5QGkOGZubQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ[/video]

 

[ajsccfc]

This whole thing has the whiff of desperation and failure about it.

Why do it in the first place? well unless you are a hedge fund used to getting your'e own way, by using hard faced nastiness, and now that you arent you are resorting to straw clutching as you have no experience of coming second best?

This is pretty much how it comes across to me. 'Nothing left to lose, let's try this' kind of thing.

 

[rupert_bear]

All the 'whats' 'ifs' and 'maybes' on this issue comes to nothing surely if the Golden Share is with ccfc ltd. It will be just an issue between ccc and some other company called ccfc Holdings. Any new buyer of ccfc ltd has to pass the fit and proper football league test, surely very difficult for sisu apart from everything else have just announced today that there's an 80% chance they won't be playing at the Ricoh next season, hardly fit or proper. My guess and hope is if sisu were confident in their claim this GS is with Holdings they would sit quietly and confident.

 

[Sky Blue Dal]

Hi Guy's/Gals,
Newbie here but have been following this forum for a while so I thought I start of here with my first comment.
The fact that the ARVO group (CCFC Holding) are taking legal action against the council is nothing to be concerned about. This does seem like
some form of delay tactic or a distraction maybe to divert all fans and the interested parties away from the important questions
demanded from the administrator of the location of the Golden League Share OR an attempt to put off any interested parties who want to
buy the club.
The truth is that even if the CCC lose which I am 100% positive that won't happen, the worse that can happen is resignations of
council leaders and an overhaul of the governement process of where council cannot spend and use the taxpayers funds that they have.

OR!!!!!!

CCC legally sell there share to a private company like Haskell Surprise! Surprise! who are into construction and development and recoupe the
tax payers money they used.

A victory for the ARVO GROUP (Which like I said aint going to happen) will also have a rippling effect on all councils who have shares in stadiums
around the country and are in effect literaly subsidising other football clubs with low rent by using tax payers money. Can you imagine how many
clubs would be affected by such an outcome.
Infact CCC can argue that if other councils seem to be subsidising cheap rent for other football clubs by using tax payers money how
can this be any different. Also they have used the tax payers money to invest in the City of Coventry just like others councils around the
country use tax payers money to bring in new private investment and businesses into there area. So why should this be any different with
CCC investing in ACL.

There is no difference!!!

I have been reading this and other Sky Blue forums with an open mind and with skepticism with many fans having a go at Sisu and in fact I have supported
Sisu against all the negative comments made against them from fellow sky blue fans, but as the weeks have gone by and talking to a few of my good
friends who work in the big finacial city, I have come to the conclusion that Sisu/Arvo and have not in the past three years had CCFC's best interest at heart.

I and many fans just feel it is time for them to part as there interest is not with the club anymore and the longer they stay the bigger loss they are making for themselves and more damage
is done to CCFC's image.

My friends who works in the financial sector in the city (London) pointed out that Sisu have made some awful bussiness decisions and for a hedge fund company
who seem to have blindly gone and invested in a football club, and in a footballing ndustry in the UK that makes colossal losses year in year out apart
from the the top 5 prem clubs is just unbelivable. They are puzzled as to why they are sticking around and not cutting there losses as they are just
gaining bigger losses the longer they stay by fighting and trying to get there investment back. It aint going to happen. It is just going to piss off there disgruntled share holders who will
not be pleased.

All I say to the Sky Blue fans is ignore all this court case nonsense as you are all working yourself up for nothing. This seems like sadly SISU's last
attempt trying to exit the club in a blaze of glory.

Concentrate on finding the Golden Share and keeping both eyes on the Administrator.
That is where the future lies for the Sky Blues sod all this bickering between CCC/ACL/HIGGS/ARVO-CCFCH which in a bigger picture is irrelevant. It's simple as that!!

Find the GOLDEN SHARE and keep your eyes on the ADMINISTRATOR, who's only concern should be CCFC Ltd and NOT get involved in anything related to
to the wrangling between CCFCH and HIGGS Trust (I did find that strange about the administrator getting involved in what wasn't
part of his domain)

 

[hill83]

Their last throw of the shit covered dice, and hopefully the end of them. Just hope they don't take the club down with them.

 

[covcity4life]

well if council didnt bail them out then sisu might own 50% of ricoh right now and we would be looking at a rosier summer.

lets see what happens,id rather a fresh start with preston haskell if possible.

 

[dadgad]

Blatantly using ownership of a Football League club to distress the company managing a community asset.

I hope the Football League are taking note of this and will remember it when/if they have to decide if SISU are fit and proper owners.

They are certainly not.
The Fit and Proper test needs some teeth.
In terms of a safe guard of a community asset the council have been the only safeguard from the worst owners in the club's history. If the Football League has any integrity they will recognise this.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Sorry but this is what we have come to expect from SISU (Shit Integrity Shit Unity)
Tried to make a company go bust by withholding funds they owed, so they could buy on the cheap and sell at a massive profit no better the the Mafia.
How any one can defend them now is beyond me.

 

[oldskyblue58]

All part of distressing ACL in my opinion............ quite deliberate, well planned, and has been going on for some time.

 

[RPHunt]

All part of distressing ACL in my opinion............ quite deliberate, well planned, and has been going on for some time.

Yes, and my point was that I hope the Football League are taking note. Football and business are one thing, but using a football club to squeeze the life out of another company, in order to acquire its assets, should be off limits.

Football was told only recently to reform or there would be government intervention. The Football League need to send a message to SISU, and to other would be owners, that football belongs to the fans and the governing bodies put football and the fans before this sort of behaviour.

 

[Sub]

i wonder if that MP ( can not think of his name) is still watching and / or willing to help raise the profile of our plight again ?:thinking about::thinking about::thinking about:might be worth sending some emails again

 

[SkyBlueHomer]

Yes, and my point was that I hope the Football League are taking note. Football and business are one thing, but using a football club to squeeze the life out of another company, in order to acquire its assets, should be off limits.

Football was told only recently to reform or there would be government intervention. The Football League need to send a message to SISU, and to other would be owners, that football belongs to the fans and the governing bodies put football and the fans before this sort of behaviour.

What would the Football League's options be though once they have been passed by the League as fit and proper owners?
I would not have thought they can be removed as owners by the League

 

[oldskyblue58]

Yes, and my point was that I hope the Football League are taking note. Football and business are one thing, but using a football club to squeeze the life out of another company, in order to acquire its assets, should be off limits.

Football was told only recently to reform or there would be government intervention. The Football League need to send a message to SISU, and to other would be owners, that football belongs to the fans and the governing bodies put football and the fans before this sort of behaviour.

I suspect that the Football League response to that will be along the lines of

"it is not up to us to get involved in private disputes our only concern are the football related matters"

not saying that is what should be the response only that i think it will be

 

[SkyBlueHomer]

I suspect that the Football League response to that will be along the lines of

"it is not up to us to get involved in private disputes our only concern are the football related matters"

not saying that is what should be the response only that i think it will be

Do you think the Football league could remove this golden share/our right to play in the league if in their opinion thee is doubt we could compete a season or no definate answer as to where we will play our home games?
I have no idea, just wondering how far they could go.