latest statement from Mr Appleton (4 Viewers)

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

I haven't said you have, I said some had.

However in such a debate it's wise to emphasise that a perfectly reasonable argument can be made that the administrator is doing his job, is not corrupt, and probably isn't a rent boy as far as I know.

I don;t think that's a conspiracy theory.

Now, I don't disagree with any of that.

 

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[James Smith]

One would assume the grant has been used to make payment, and Holdings have matched that payment.

That's not really relevant to the academy refusing to take payment from holdings, as they have done until this point however.

Aah I've got it now you keep referring to the Academy but you don't mean the Academy Where you say Academy I think you mean the Higgs Centre? The Academy is the young lads who are supposed to be our future players and associated staff etc.

 

[Texascowboy]

Am I missing something, fans want the administrator to take control of the academy and pay for the facilities and all the wages of the staff but ltd have no money to do this?

Will this not liquidate the academy the life blood of our club?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Aah I've got it now you keep referring to the Academy but you don't mean the Academy Where you say Academy I think you mean the Higgs Centre?

Correct. My error in using a shorthand term for the base. Hadn't considered how it could be misniterpreted tbh, should have done.

 

[wingy]

I may be taking asimplistic view here but if Higgs were happy to take payment from Holdings while Ltd was the entity ,surely the administrator is now the entity who needs to make the arrangement with Higgs,be that through sale of assets or taking funds from Holdings .Dispassionately simple.:thinking about::facepalm:

 

[James Smith]

Am I missing something, fans want the administrator to take control of the academy and pay for the facilities and all the wages of the staff but ltd have no money to do this?

Will this not liquidate the academy the life blood of our club?

What I want is to know where the grant went, where the golden share is (and thus the Academy) and for holdings or whoever has the golden share to sort out a new contract for the Academy to use the Higgs Centre

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Am I missing something, fans want the administrator to take control of the academy and pay for the facilities and all the wages of the staff but ltd have no money to do this?

Will this not liquidate the academy the life blood of our club?

It appears that the only entity allowed to run the academy is the one that holds the golden share.

The league believe that Limited holds the golden share.

Therefore Limited is the only entity that can run the academy.

It's all a horrible mess.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

What I want is to know where the grant went, where the golden share is (and thus the Academy) and for holdings or whoever has the golden share to sort out a new contract for the Academy to use the Higgs Centre

Don't think you'll find it in CCFC ltd, or CCFC(Holdings). you might need to look a little further afield like....dare I say, an Off-Shore account somewhere around the "Cayman Islands" for instance allegedly.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

I think a blanket ban on analogies needs to be applied immediately now!

But then I'd barely post at all...a post from me would be about as rare as an underpaid footballer..ah, wait, that's what you want! Tsk, it's like telling a fish not to swim...

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

Important question:

The league confirmed that the golden share, in their opinion, is in CCFC Ltd., and that therefore the Academy is in CCFC Ltd.
The league must therefore be paying the £500,000.00 per annum subsidy for CCFC Ltd.'s Category B academy to CCFC Ltd.
WHERE IS THE MONEY GONE? WHY DOES THE ADMINISTRATOR NOT HAVE THESE FL FUNDS AVAILABLE TO PAY TO THE HIGGS FOR USE OF THE PREMISES BY THE ACADEMY?
How can he say it is nothing to do with him if the league have been sending £500,000.00 a year to CCFC Ltd. specifically for the Academy?

If there are no assets in CCFC Ltd., then how have they spent the subsidy? Or did they transfer the money to Holdings, and is that legal?
A lot of questions need answering here, and I sincerely hope the administrator is asking SISU all the right questions, and if he does not, then others need to ask the hard questions.

 

[Tonylinc]

It's perfectly simple. ALL assets were with Ltd but Sisu, expecting an admin (whether by them or some else) have transferred these assets without League permission. Thus the transfer will be declared null and void and we will be saddled with a further points deduction going in to next season. This whole mess has come about by Sisu playing "hard ball", how anyone can defend them is utterly beyond me.

 

[Grendel]

It's perfectly simple. ALL assets were with Ltd but Sisu, expecting an admin (whether by them or some else) have transferred these assets without League permission. Thus the transfer will be declared null and void and we will be saddled with a further points deduction going in to next season. This whole mess has come about by Sisu playing "hard ball", how anyone can defend them is utterly beyond me.

Interesting. You clearly are an expert. Please show us the rules that mean points are deducted for this. Also do you have proof to support the hypothesis you present.

 

[oldskyblue58]

CCFC H was paying the contract held by CCFC Ltd for use of the AEH Trust facilities. What that means in accounting terms is that for every amount paid to AEH Trust then the debt owed by CCFCLtd to CCFCH is increased in equal amount.

CCFC H are paying on behalf of CCFC Ltd not instead of.

The administrator can not accept more debt and has no income with which to pay the bill. Therefore CCFC Ltd is in breach of the contract for facilities at AEH.

CCFC H has no contract what so ever with AEH. The fact that it made payments on behalf of CCFC Ltd does not create, indicate or prove any contract at all. What it has done over the years is to increase the amount that CCFC Ltd owe CCFC H

Unless there is a new contract acceptable to both sides then CCFC H can not use the AEH facilities

The thing about administrations is that the administrators and the company creditors revert to the legal basis of contract law, for their own protection..... it doesnt matter what might seem practical, or who in the past has paid the money over. The academy contract is between CCFC Ltd and AEH ...... there is no other academy contract

 

[cloughie]

One would assume the grant has been used to make payment, and Holdings have matched that payment.

That's not really relevant to the academy refusing to take payment from holdings, as they have done until this point however.

One could assume you are John Cleese, ....sorry Basil Fawlty, the latter could be an easy mistake to make

 

[Godiva]

CCFC H was paying the contract held by CCFC Ltd for use of the AEH Trust facilities. What that means in accounting terms is that for every amount paid to AEH Trust then the debt owed by CCFCLtd to CCFCH is increased in equal amount.

CCFC H are paying on behalf of CCFC Ltd not instead of.

The administrator can not accept more debt and has no income with which to pay the bill. Therefore CCFC Ltd is in breach of the contract for facilities at AEH.

CCFC H has no contract what so ever with AEH. The fact that it made payments on behalf of CCFC Ltd does not create, indicate or prove any contract at all. What it has done over the years is to increase the amount that CCFC Ltd owe CCFC H

Unless there is a new contract acceptable to both sides then CCFC H can not use the AEH facilities

The thing about administrations is that the administrators and the company creditors revert to the legal basis of contract law, for their own protection..... it doesnt matter what might seem practical, or who in the past has paid the money over. The academy contract is between CCFC Ltd and AEH ...... there is no other academy contract

This all true.
But could it have been an acceptable short term solution if a new 3 months contract had been written and signed between CCFC(H) and AEH?
Wouldn't that have indicated a desire to leave the acadamy out of the equation while the administration proces finds its course?

 

[Jack Griffin]

This all true.
But could it have been an acceptable short term solution if a new 3 months contract had been written and signed between CCFC(H) and AEH?
Wouldn't that have indicated a desire to leave the acadamy out of the equation while the administration proces finds its course?

No one is stupid enough to to weaken their position in the courts before next month's sitting.. it would also be possible for SISU to fund it via the administrator like they did for the rent pid to ACL for the last 3 matches of this season.

The ground arrangements for next season will be the next hurdle. I'm sure ACL will insist it is all done via the administrator or not at all & they've got no other option otherwise the might as well hand the keys to the Arena over to SISU.

 

[dongonzalos]

Is it a conspiracy theory to say that the academy are refusing to take payment when it is offered? Nobody seems to want to answer my question as to whether John Cleese making payment would be accepted by them. Shall we assume that we all tacitly acknowledge it would be? If we assume payment by AN Other would be accepted, then we have to ask why payment is not being accepted when it is offered, no?

I've already said they're more than welcome to ask the question about who actually they're dealing with, given they assumed CCFC was CCFC, be it Ltd or Holdings, but it appears a balanced view and making an argument for a balanced view that does not condemn the administrator as a corrupt cunit means I must be desperately engaging in conspiracy theories.

Personally I would ask the question, and also take the payment, wouldn't you?

Could it not be argued that calling the administrator corrupt is far more of a conspiracy theory? He, after all, has yet to show he has personal animosity towards some of the parties.

Do you accept that the manner and way in which the administrator made his comment. Suggests he does not agree with ACL asking questions regarding this. Do you agree that his opinion did not sound impartial and sounded like he was siding with SISU. Considering you yourself say they are right to ask questions. Why would this be such a shock to him?

 

[Godiva]

No one is stupid enough to to weaken their position in the courts before next month's sitting.. it would also be possible for SISU to fund it via the administrator like they did for the rent pid to ACL for the last 3 matches of this season.

Well, in that case we can forget all the concerned voices about the young players - it's all about money and power.
But I don't think it would weaken ACL's position in court.

The administrator was able and willing to pay for the last three games as they were necessary to keep the club alive until a solution is found. I am not sure that is the case with the acadamy as it does not produce a short term income.

 

[dongonzalos]

Well, in that case we can forget all the concerned voices about the young players - it's all about money and power.
But I don't think it would weaken ACL's position in court.

The administrator was able and willing to pay for the last three games as they were necessary to keep the club alive until a solution is found. I am not sure that is the case with the acadamy as it does not produce a short term income.

Maybe he should look for a source of income?

Anyone out there offering one, who may walk away if a better opportunity comes along whilst the administrator dithers?

 

[Godiva]

Maybe he should look for a source of income?

Anyone out there offering one, who may walk away if a better opportunity comes along whilst the administrator dithers?

How can he produce an income?

If you mean sell the company, then I believe that is what he is 'employed' to do, but then he needs to be presented with an offer.

I don't think the administrator even knows exactly what he is going to sell, and so a buyer wouldn't know exactly what he pays for and what amount he can/should offer.

 

[dongonzalos]

How can he produce an income?

If you mean sell the company, then I believe that is what he is 'employed' to do, but then he needs to be presented with an offer.

I don't think the administrator even knows exactly what he is going to sell, and so a buyer wouldn't know exactly what he pays for and what amount he can/should offer.

He can't be presented with an offer.

He has been contacted by an interested party 3 times asking is the club up for sale?

Can we have the figures please so we can put a bid in.

The club is not up for sale yet.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Well, in that case we can forget all the concerned voices about the young players - it's all about money and power.
But I don't think it would weaken ACL's position in court.

The administrator was able and willing to pay for the last three games as they were necessary to keep the club alive until a solution is found. I am not sure that is the case with the acadamy as it does not produce a short term income.

It would undermine their position.

The administrator was not willing & able to pay for those games, something was worked out so that holdings paid the administrator, who paid ACL. ACL are only going to deal with the Administrator as that is the club according to the FL.

As for power, well holdings are at liberty to pay the Academy bills in the same way as they paid the rent.. so if it wasn't about power for them they could resolve the issue.

 

[wingy]

How can he produce an income?

If you mean sell the company, then I believe that is what he is 'employed' to do, but then he needs to be presented with an offer.

I don't think the administrator even knows exactly what he is going to sell, and so a buyer wouldn't know exactly what he pays for and what amount he can/should offer.

We'll all know in around 4 weeks.

 

[dongonzalos]

We'll all know in around 4 weeks.

When he asks for more time. That date is just for an update.

I hope the judge asks for specifics when he asks for more time.

Details of where he is at what is remaining what are the time frames for each of the remaining areas

 

[Grendel]

When he asks for more time. That date is just for an update.

I hope the judge asks for specifics when he asks for more time.

Details of where he is at what is remaining what are the time frames for each of the remaining areas

You seem to think clubs can just come out of administration in a few weeks. On average it takes at least 6 months even when there are interested parties.

I would be amazed if we are out before Christmas.

 

[dongonzalos]

You seem to think clubs can just come out of administration in a few weeks. On average it takes at least 6 months even when there are interested parties.

I would be amazed if we are out before Christmas.

How many have took that long when a multi million there is say there saying. Is it in admin? If it is I will buy it it.

Just tell me is it or not?

This is a unique scenario where the owners are claiming that the club is not in administration.

The football association say it is.

This is the matter that I am confused as to why it is taking so long.

It really should not take so long to confirm if we are in administration or not.

How long it takes from that point for someone to buy us or SUSU re buy us is anybody's guess.

But this first step. I do not think he will provide the answer at the next hearing and I don't think it really has to take that long.

 

[Grendel]

How many have took that long when a multi million there is say there saying. Is it in admin? If it is I will buy it it.

Just tell me is it or not?

This is a unique scenario where the owners are claiming that the club is not in administration.

The football association say it is.

This is the matter that I am confused as to why it is taking so long.

It really should not take so long to confirm if we are in administration or not.

How long it takes from that point for someone to buy us or SUSU re buy us is anybody's guess.

But this first step. I do not think he will provide the answer at the next hearing and I don't think it really has to take that long.

He's not buying is he? Anyway it's not that simple. Business plans need to presented and also need to dumb it applications to the football league. There are complexities regarding the relationship with the company not in administration. Also the purchase will be in conjunction with an agreement regarding the ground.

Like it or not the administrator preferred by the council did not see this guy as anywhere near viable to buy Leeds.

I actually wouldn't mind PWKH giving a view having met him as well.

 

[wingy]

You seem to think clubs can just come out of administration in a few weeks. On average it takes at least 6 months even when there are interested parties.

I would be amazed if we are out before Christmas.

Then we really should expect some intervention through the FA/FL ,who regardless of Linnels continued sceptisism of where that share lies have to

sort out who and where we play next season ,would have thought there should be some legalese activity afoot here .:thinking about:

 

[dongonzalos]

Southampton went into administration at the end of April
They had the same argument as us regarding two different companies with the same result. The FA said the 10 point deduction stands. The two companies were linked.

In a couple of weeks it was announced they were up for sale.
At that time the eventual buyer was not on the scene

Yet in the first week of July the deal was done.

So they were bought within 9 weeks. With the same dispute as ours.

I am just asking why we don't even know if we are up for sale or not. That has been 4 weeks now and some are saying we may or may not have the answer to that question in another 3 weeks?

Does this not seem a little strange to you?

 

[Grendel]

Then we really should expect some intervention through the FA/FL ,who regardless of Linnels continued sceptisism of where that share lies have to

sort out who and where we play next season ,would have thought there should be some legalese activity afoot here .:thinking about:

Yes I agree they should get involved.

Sadly their involvement in situations like this is normally just docking more points off the club.

 

[Jack Griffin]

It won't be quick, because of SISU's involvement.. they will eek every last penny out of the settlement they can.

 

[oldskyblue58]

This all true.
But could it have been an acceptable short term solution if a new 3 months contract had been written and signed between CCFC(H) and AEH?
Wouldn't that have indicated a desire to leave the acadamy out of the equation while the administration proces finds its course?

ever wonder why they only want a three month deal ? ever wonder why for the future of the AEH they need more certainty than that? ever wonder why it is SISU put to one side an apparent £500k cost in their budgets? ever wonder why didnt plan to keep the academy safe at the AEH (could have paid the amount up front before they went in to admin for instance)? ever wonder whether they intended to leave the AEH in any case?

It would seem however that the club is not CCFC H because it doesnt own any membership of the FL, in which case the academy is not CCFCH in any case. Which means CCFC H can't actually operate as an FA academy. Like it or not when a company is in administration all involved rely on the letter of the law when dealing with each other ...... they have to in order to avoid further liability.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

How many have took that long when a multi million there is say there saying. Is it in admin? If it is I will buy it it.

You don't want any owner to do due diligence then?

You also don't want anybody to do due diligence on any possible owner?

 

[dongonzalos]

You don't want any owner to do due diligence then?

You also don't want anybody to do due diligence on any possible owner?

Yes to do due diligence they need to know the club is up for sale and be given all the figures.

They have not been told it is up for sale they have been given no figures.

8 weeks to find out if the club is up for sale or not?

No guarantee we will get an answer then either?

Does that sound reasonable to you?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Unless you're suggesting there's a conspiracy where the courts are in league with SISU then yes, it probably is reasonable.