Paul Appleton (without prejudice) (6 Viewers)

[SkyblueBazza]

I suggest it's you that doesn't understand what Impartiality means.
If PWKH makes a statement in defence of ACL/CCC. this is acceptable in my eyes.
If Fisher makes a statement in defence of SISU(As much as I detest him) this is also acceptable
When a person of(Supposed) impartiality makes a statement of obvious "Leaning toward SISU" Then I am certainly not going to be happy about it.
Why would Appleton state that "The GS is up for sale" then also states that he "Doesn't know where the GS is"....Smoke and Mirrors?....Allegedly.

Oh...so you don't understand?!
Maybe he's trying to flush out issues that limit progress. Does that help? See there is also FA membership in the mix, also I suspect "obvious "leaning toward SISU"" is just someone's interpretation that you choose to accept/agree with because you think it's reinforcing your own un-impartiality.

 

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[Sky Blue Kid]

WTF has this statement got to do with Appleton???
He should stick to what he's being paid for! Is this "Pro SISU enough for you"?


Statement from Appleton re: legal letter

about:blank
Updated Apr 25, 2013

STATEMENT FROM PAUL APPLETON
I am somewhat puzzled by the stance taken by the Alan Higgs Centre Trust in relation to the Coventry City Academy.
For many years, the Trust were content to be paid by Coventry City FC Holdings and to deal with CCFC Holdings on that basis.
This was the situation that prevailed historically despite the fact the Trust were fully aware of the division within the club between Holdings and CCFC Limited which held the Licence for the premises.
Why they have elected not to continue on that basis following CCFC Limited entering administration and the Holdings offer of a compromise deal, is a question only the Trust can answer.

It certainly can’t be because they fear contravening compliance regulations of either the Football Association or the Football League. Both those bodies were completely aware of the situation within the Club and have raised no issue with it either before Limited’s administration or subsequently.

 

[SkyBlueBlood]

Have to be careful how to answer this too, but yes it seems he is not up to the job or is being leaned on by SISU and is not strong enough to stand up to them. Hence their reason for appointing him!

 

[wingy]

I'd say that the comments of others in the Admin area of operation and those of other football finanace practitioners along with Learned doctors seem to have a common apraisal of his performance ...............................puzzlement plus advice pointing to the paper trail.

 

[Skybluesquirrel]

No.

I think too many posters do not fully understand what his role is & I doubt if any know the constraints he is operating within. It seems that because he was appointed by SISU/their representatives he is automatically a figure of hate & accused as biased in everything he does.

I haven't had access to anything like the records Appleton has had. Ive been able to find solid evidence that leads to some questions that should have been asked of Sisu by the administrator. The accounts show that CCFC Ltd have acted like a football club, taking match receipts, paying players wages and buying and selling them. Holdings hasn't done any of this historically. If the trading activities has changed recently, why was no-one told? Were the players contracts transferred over to Holdings without the players knowledge? If the contracts were always with Holdings, why were CCFC Ltd paying them? The same goes for the golden share. Why was no-one told?

There's more detail here if you are interested.

http://aprisonofmeasuredtime.wordpress.com/2013/05/16/26-years-on-from-gary-mabbutts-knee/

 

[The Penguin]

Skybluesquirrel's post (and his whole blog) sums up my entire frustration with the administration process so far. If a fan, who is not charging 300 quid an hour and hasn't spent 475 hours (and counting) on investigating the club can raise all these queries and problems with the running of the club, why can't a professional, impartial administrator?

I can certainly understand why his competence and his impartiality are being called into question. I think we have every right to be skeptical of his performance to date.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

The GS is with the FL that is undistublable not that hard to find

I think he'd sing an old Nirvana song back at you:

"I find it hard, it's hard to find...oh well, whatever, nevermind."

 

[CCFC_GT]

I haven't had access to anything like the records Appleton has had. Ive been able to find solid evidence that leads to some questions that should have been asked of Sisu by the administrator. The accounts show that CCFC Ltd have acted like a football club, taking match receipts, paying players wages and buying and selling them. Holdings hasn't done any of this historically. If the trading activities has changed recently, why was no-one told? Were the players contracts transferred over to Holdings without the players knowledge? If the contracts were always with Holdings, why were CCFC Ltd paying them? The same goes for the golden share. Why was no-one told?

There's more detail here if you are interested.

http://aprisonofmeasuredtime.wordpress.com/2013/05/16/26-years-on-from-gary-mabbutts-knee/

The linked article is a very interesting and informative read that poses some great questions, and it will be interesting to see what Appleton's report says with this in mind.

 

[Houchens Head]

Just put the word "allegedly" at the end of each post! You'll be fine!



.......er..........allegedly!

 

[James Smith]

You especially do not understand perhaps

Okay hypothetically if someone's going to look into this what would they look at as evidence? For me I'd look at the minutes of the board meetings that Ltd must have had, who has the players registrations etc. Any clues as to what the business does like I dunno be a football club. If Skybluesquirrel and OSB can do as much as they have without access to the stuff the Administrator has then maybe they should be running the show. Or do you think SISU would object?

 

[Skybluesquirrel]

Okay hypothetically if someone's going to look into this what would they look at as evidence? For me I'd look at the minutes of the board meetings that Ltd must have had, who has the players registrations etc. Any clues as to what the business does like I dunno be a football club. If Skybluesquirrel and OSB can do as much as they have without access to the stuff the Administrator has then maybe they should be running the show. Or do you think SISU would object?

First thing I would do is go to the filing cabinet. Take out the contracts between the club and players. Who are they between? Who signed them?
They then have to be submitted to the FA/FL. In whose name were these transfers submitted - CCFC Ltd or Holdings? They are legally binding documents. They should be completed accurately.

Players now have football passports. Call them in and see who is listed as the current owners - CCFC Ltd or Holdings.

Then go to the bank statements. Which account paid them, both the fee for the original purchase (if applicable) and then the signing on fees & monthly salaries for each contract. In what name is the bank account? Where does this bank account get reported in submissions to Companies House? In CCFC Ltd or in Holdings?

The Golden share - read it. If the name on the document does not exactly correspond to one of the companies involved (CCFC Ltd or Holdings), then there is a small chance of dispute. If it was meant to have been made out to Holdings as Sisu imply but was to CCFC Ltd, then unfortunately thats an expensive mistake. But its a legally binding document, so the laws the law.

If sisu then suggest that any of these documents have been transferred to Holdings, find the documents to ensure that the transfer was conducted correctly and refer back to bank statements to ensure full market value was received for the transfer of the agreements. If the share ownership has been changed more recently, follow the paper trail and see if the FL accepted the change. There should be a receipt or acknowledgement. If there's not, check the post room to see if TF forgot to post it...

Pay particular attention to dates on everything to make sure everything was reported correctly.

Back to the bank statements, check to see which company received the gate receipts. Whichever Company took receipt is the one that is acting like a football club, so must be a football club.

A day or two with OSB, both of us on £340 per hour and we have a result. Buggar it, give us two whole days on that rate. And our report will be on thick paper with a nice photo on the front...

 

[stupot07]

First thing I would do is go to the filing cabinet. Take out the contracts between the club and players. Who are they between? Who signed them?
They then have to be submitted to the FA/FL. In whose name were these transfers submitted - CCFC Ltd or Holdings? They are legally binding documents. They should be completed accurately.

Players now have football passports. Call them in and see who is listed as the current owners - CCFC Ltd or Holdings.

Then go to the bank statements. Which account paid them, both the fee for the original purchase (if applicable) and then the signing on fees & monthly salaries for each contract. In what name is the bank account? Where does this bank account get reported in submissions to Companies House? In CCFC Ltd or in Holdings?

The Golden share - read it. If the name on the document does not exactly correspond to one of the companies involved (CCFC Ltd or Holdings), then there is a small chance of dispute. If it was meant to have been made out to Holdings as Sisu imply but was to CCFC Ltd, then unfortunately thats an expensive mistake. But its a legally binding document, so the laws the law.

If sisu then suggest that any of these documents have been transferred to Holdings, find the documents to ensure that the transfer was conducted correctly and refer back to bank statements to ensure full market value was received for the transfer of the agreements. If the share ownership has been changed more recently, follow the paper trail and see if the FL accepted the change. There should be a receipt or acknowledgement. If there's not, check the post room to see if TF forgot to post it...

Pay particular attention to dates on everything to make sure everything was reported correctly.

Back to the bank statements, check to see which company received the gate receipts. Whichever Company took receipt is the one that is acting like a football club, so must be a football club.

A day or two with OSB, both of us on £340 per hour and we have a result. Buggar it, give us two whole days on that rate. And our report will be on thick paper with a nice photo on the front...

I'm happy to help out and do some photocopying for you....£340 per hour did you say? Count me in

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

I'm happy to help out and do some photocopying for you....£340 per hour did you say? Count me in

I can get you cofee tea lunch I'm in

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Okay hypothetically if someone's going to look into this what would they look at as evidence? For me I'd look at the minutes of the board meetings that Ltd must have had, who has the players registrations etc. Any clues as to what the business does like I dunno be a football club. If Skybluesquirrel and OSB can do as much as they have without access to the stuff the Administrator has then maybe they should be running the show. Or do you think SISU would object?

Only SISU speak for SISU...you, & others subsequent to you post, paint a relatively straightforward picture that leads to all the answers & is simplistic to say the least. Where of course it backfires is even something easy like minutes from a board meeting cannot be taken as fact. I'm sure you'd agree as you don't believe a word SISU say - why would you believe what minutes from a meeting say? EG. "Confirmed the GS transferred to..." - you would just accept? Or seek to confirm? If the latter you are dependent upon others. That takes time, then you have to tie it together with everything else, make sense of it & prepare some recommendations.
As for the work of OSB/Sbsq are concerned - as insightful as it is...they do not have access to the same information within the organisation that the administrator has, and so if given the same opportunity we can only speculate as to whether they would have the same, more or fewer answers, plans or recommendations.

 

[SkyBlueSwiss]

Only SISU speak for SISU...you, & others subsequent to you post, paint a relatively straightforward picture that leads to all the answers & is simplistic to say the least. Where of course it backfires is even something easy like minutes from a board meeting cannot be taken as fact. I'm sure you'd agree as you don't believe a word SISU say - why would you believe what minutes from a meeting say? EG. "Confirmed the GS transferred to..." - you would just accept? Or seek to confirm? If the latter you are dependent upon others. That takes time, then you have to tie it together with everything else, make sense of it & prepare some recommendations.
As for the work of OSB/Sbsq are concerned - as insightful as it is...they do not have access to the same information within the organisation that the administrator has, and so if given the same opportunity we can only speculate as to whether they would have the same, more or fewer answers, plans or recommendations.

I generally have not been in agreement with a lot of your comments, but I totally agree to this comment. Anyone that reads the minutes of a supposed board meeting that confirms something that SISU appointed officials have said must be taken with a large dose of salt. You would be surprised at how often "minutes" are not even written until a long time after the meeting and those minutes record what people now want them to say, and there are many, many instances of falsified minutes out there.
Just because it is written does not make it true, and that goes for all parties, not just SISU.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I can get you cofee tea lunch I'm in

And if it is such a money-spinner - I'll empty the bins ;-)

 

[Skybluesquirrel]

Only SISU speak for SISU...you, & others subsequent to you post, paint a relatively straightforward picture that leads to all the answers & is simplistic to say the least. Where of course it backfires is even something easy like minutes from a board meeting cannot be taken as fact. I'm sure you'd agree as you don't believe a word SISU say - why would you believe what minutes from a meeting say? EG. "Confirmed the GS transferred to..." - you would just accept? Or seek to confirm? If the latter you are dependent upon others. That takes time, then you have to tie it together with everything else, make sense of it & prepare some recommendations.
As for the work of OSB/Sbsq are concerned - as insightful as it is...they do not have access to the same information within the organisation that the administrator has, and so if given the same opportunity we can only speculate as to whether they would have the same, more or fewer answers, plans or recommendations.

Re the minutes - fair point. However, there are or should be safeguards.

Notes are always taken during a meeting. The chair will often point out what needs to be recorded to the note taker.

The minutes from a previous meeting are normally sent out prior to the next meeting taking place. At the subsequent meeting, the minutes will have to be approved by those present. It is up to the directors/trustees/members to ensure the records are correct. They are given the opportunity to do so.

On your second point, would you care to highlight any specific areas that you feel would lead us to find evidence that will counter our findings thus far?

 

[Skybluesquirrel]

And if it is such a money-spinner - I'll empty the bins ;-)

Not sure I would trust anyone to empty the bins. I'd do that myself. Remember Fred the shred at RBS...

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Not sure I would trust anyone to empty the bins. I'd do that myself. Remember Fred the shred at RBS...

I'll just wash them out then

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Re the minutes - fair point. However, there are or should be safeguards.

Notes are always taken during a meeting. The chair will often point out what needs to be recorded to the note taker.

The minutes from a previous meeting are normally sent out prior to the next meeting taking place. At the subsequent meeting, the minutes will have to be approved by those present. It is up to the directors/trustees/members to ensure the records are correct. They are given the opportunity to do so.

On your second point, would you care to highlight any specific areas that you feel would lead us to find evidence that will counter our findings thus far?

I have no specifics because I lack all the information just like the rest of us. Mr Appleton is the best placed one for all that, & if he found any wrong doing he would be mad to ignore it. He would risk cutting his own throat.
As for notes & minutes & subsequent meetings - you are right, but it is ideal world stuff. People sometimes stay quiet for fear or fear of feeling stupid.

 

[wingy]

Question ?? If ACl buy Ltd , does the lease remain in existence? Does that then entitle them to sue SISU /ARVO /Holdings for the remainder of the lease??

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Question ?? If ACl buy Ltd , does the lease remain in existence? Does that then entitle them to sue SISU /ARVO /Holdings for the remainder of the lease??

Are you trying to start another tangled web?

 

[James Smith]

First thing I would do is go to the filing cabinet. Take out the contracts between the club and players. Who are they between? Who signed them?
They then have to be submitted to the FA/FL. In whose name were these transfers submitted - CCFC Ltd or Holdings? They are legally binding documents. They should be completed accurately.

Players now have football passports. Call them in and see who is listed as the current owners - CCFC Ltd or Holdings.

Then go to the bank statements. Which account paid them, both the fee for the original purchase (if applicable) and then the signing on fees & monthly salaries for each contract. In what name is the bank account? Where does this bank account get reported in submissions to Companies House? In CCFC Ltd or in Holdings?

The Golden share - read it. If the name on the document does not exactly correspond to one of the companies involved (CCFC Ltd or Holdings), then there is a small chance of dispute. If it was meant to have been made out to Holdings as Sisu imply but was to CCFC Ltd, then unfortunately thats an expensive mistake. But its a legally binding document, so the laws the law.

If sisu then suggest that any of these documents have been transferred to Holdings, find the documents to ensure that the transfer was conducted correctly and refer back to bank statements to ensure full market value was received for the transfer of the agreements. If the share ownership has been changed more recently, follow the paper trail and see if the FL accepted the change. There should be a receipt or acknowledgement. If there's not, check the post room to see if TF forgot to post it...

Pay particular attention to dates on everything to make sure everything was reported correctly.

Back to the bank statements, check to see which company received the gate receipts. Whichever Company took receipt is the one that is acting like a football club, so must be a football club.

A day or two with OSB, both of us on £340 per hour and we have a result. Buggar it, give us two whole days on that rate. And our report will be on thick paper with a nice photo on the front...

And people wonder why Mr Appleton gets some stick for his non report. Thanks for that summary.:claping hands:

 

[James Smith]

Only SISU speak for SISU...you, & others subsequent to you post, paint a relatively straightforward picture that leads to all the answers & is simplistic to say the least. Where of course it backfires is even something easy like minutes from a board meeting cannot be taken as fact. I'm sure you'd agree as you don't believe a word SISU say - why would you believe what minutes from a meeting say? EG. "Confirmed the GS transferred to..." - you would just accept? Or seek to confirm? If the latter you are dependent upon others. That takes time, then you have to tie it together with everything else, make sense of it & prepare some recommendations.
As for the work of OSB/Sbsq are concerned - as insightful as it is...they do not have access to the same information within the organisation that the administrator has, and so if given the same opportunity we can only speculate as to whether they would have the same, more or fewer answers, plans or recommendations.

No I wouldn't just take the meeting minutes as my only source of evidence, but then neither should the administrator. They'd be a good place to start though.

 

[stupot07]

Question ?? If ACl buy Ltd , does the lease remain in existence? Does that then entitle them to sue SISU /ARVO /Holdings for the remainder of the lease??

Probably not.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

No I wouldn't just take the meeting minutes as my only source of evidence, but then neither should the administrator. They'd be a good place to start though.

And he may well have started there.

 

[Ripbuster]

I imagine the morning of him submitting his report went something like this.
TF even loaning him a suit
[video=youtube;3v5nqFAlIyg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v5nqFAlIyg[/video]

 

[TasmanSeaSkyBlue]

What's Appleton's work history? Can anyone let me know? Just where has he worked before and his qualifications (if any) for the job at hand. Does he have any professional connection with SiSU? Surely a time frame should be in place for his findings & to inform the Football League just how League 1 will look next season.

 

[wingy]

What's Appleton's work history? Can anyone let me know? Just where has he worked before and his qualifications (if any) for the job at hand. Does he have any professional connection with SiSU? Surely a time frame should be in place for his findings & to inform the Football League just how League 1 will look next season.

Rumour and only rumour i've seen on here tonight is that allegedly he's worked with the partner /Husband of one of the heads of SISU allegedly.:thinking about:

 

[Skybluesquirrel]

What's Appleton's work history? Can anyone let me know? Just where has he worked before and his qualifications (if any) for the job at hand. Does he have any professional connection with SiSU? Surely a time frame should be in place for his findings & to inform the Football League just how League 1 will look next season.

Is anyone on 'linked in' and able to check his profile?

I imagine he will be like a bailiff - impossible to find any information on. For their own 'safety'...

 

[Ripbuster]

The company in administration is CCFC Ltd. If you look at their accounts, the took match day receipts, paid the players and manager, bought and sold players and acted like a football club. Holdings didn't do any of these things.

I've read documents today that show otherwise.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Why dont we all wait to see what happens because lets face it none of us know anything really do we

 

[Ripbuster]

Is anyone on 'linked in' and able to check his profile?

I imagine he will be like a bailiff - impossible to find any information on. For their own 'safety'...

Offices 1.8 mile walking distance from SC,they may of bumped into each other every day on their way to work,without ever knowing each other :thinking about:

 

[Skybluesquirrel]

I've read documents today that show otherwise.

Really interested to see them. Are they publicly available?

 

[James Smith]

Really interested to see them. Are they publicly available?

+1 to that.