Acl response to the Fisher Arena (2 Viewers)

[Noggin]

Your math doesn't direct my question - why are people quick to react to the spin from sisu, but blindly accept the spin from ACL?

If we are only critical towards one of the stakeholders in this farce, we will surely be screwed by another!

And your math is probably correct.
But you leave out part of the financial truth:
As the mortgage is paid the net assets will increase. So paying £1.4m per year on a mortgage could easily be more desireble than paying £400k per year in rent.

of course we are assuming if we built a new stadium that the football club would own it, is it actually more likely that another sisu company would be set up to build the stadium keeping it safe if the club goes bust and this company would charge ccfc rent, I see no reason to belive with the way sisu run things that the stadium would be owned by ccfc holdings.

Your point about spin is fair, after all I don't think acl are being truthful when they say they hadn't heard about a new stadium before now, the new stadium talk from sisu came right from when talks finally broke down. however sisu have earnt the less trust that they are shown and I don't believe it's unreasonable of ACL to use the 70 mill figure, after all that is what we owe them now weather they put it in or not and why wouldn't you use their own spin against them?

 

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[Jack Griffin]

One thing I'd like the administrator to comment upon, as well as the obvious, would be the constitution of the level of SISU-related debt it's alleged now sit with CCFC Limited.

The debt level is cited as being in the region of £60m, primarily owed to SISU or it's other iterations; this having accrued in 5 years.

That's loading the club with a level of debt larger in value than it's own annual turnover for each and every year of their tenure.

Given the information available to him, I'd like a candid statement with regards this level of indebtedness; and whether it's a true reflection of the situation

£70M mate, and that was last week, it will probably be £80M today.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Your math doesn't direct my question - why are people quick to react to the spin from sisu, but blindly accept the spin from ACL?

If we are only critical towards one of the stakeholders in this farce, we will surely be screwed by another!

And your math is probably correct.
But you leave out part of the financial truth:
As the mortgage is paid the net assets will increase. So paying £1.4m per year on a mortgage could easily be more desireble than paying £400k per year in rent.

Well in that case why didn't SISU negotiate a part purchase by paying (part of) the mortgage instead of rent.

 

[Godiva]

Your point about spin is fair, after all I don't think acl are being truthful when they say they hadn't heard about a new stadium before now, the new stadium talk from sisu came right from when talks finally broke down. however sisu have earnt the less trust that they are shown and I don't believe it's unreasonable of ACL to use the 70 mill figure, after all that is what we owe them now weather they put it in or not and why wouldn't you use their own spin against them?

By 'you' you mean ACL in their statement - and of course they have every right to use sisu's own spin against them. But the statement from ACL is still spin of their making, and as such it derserves just as much critical attention as if it came from Fisher ... or any other stakeholder!

Spin is the art of misdirection.
The main issue is: Will the club play at the Ricoh next season?
No, says Fisher - the club will under no circumstances play at the Ricoh next season. Is that spin? Maybe it is, and this forum is flooded with threads about the topic - many calling his bluff.
ACL says 'We are baffled with that statement' ... and noone challenges it. Noone ask why there is no invitation to Fisher to come back to the table and sort out a new deal. No, we accept being misdirected and start to talk about building costs instead.

And the issue - 'will ccfc be playing at the Ricoh next season' is forgotten. Both ACL and sisu want us to look away ... and we do!

 

[Noggin]

By 'you' you mean ACL in their statement - and of course they have every right to use sisu's own spin against them. But the statement from ACL is still spin of their making, and as such it derserves just as much critical attention as if it came from Fisher ... or any other stakeholder!

Yes I do mean ACL in that statement, I also said your point about the spin was fair, I wasn't particually disagreeing with you. However while I agree with you that this statement is spin, the fact is spin isn't all created equal and I see very little issue with this peice of spin and do not think it deserves much critical attention.

Spin is the art of misdirection.
The main issue is: Will the club play at the Ricoh next season?
No, says Fisher - the club will under no circumstances play at the Ricoh next season. Is that spin? Maybe it is, and this forum is flooded with threads about the topic - many calling his bluff.
ACL says 'We are baffled with that statement' ... and noone challenges it. Noone ask why there is no invitation to Fisher to come back to the table and sort out a new deal. No, we accept being misdirected and start to talk about building costs instead.

And the issue - 'will ccfc be playing at the Ricoh next season' is forgotten. Both ACL and sisu want us to look away ... and we do!

Sure that spin from ACL about negotiating for use of the ricoh is worse however we all know what they mean, they won't negotiate with holdings, they will negotiate with limited. Since limited don't want to negotiate we are at an impasse, as fans we could try and pressure acl to negotiate with holdings but I'm sure the vast majority of us realise if we were acl we wouldn't consider negotiating with holdings now so we can't in good conscience pressure them too.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Your math doesn't direct my question - why are people quick to react to the spin from sisu, but blindly accept the spin from ACL?

If we are only critical towards one of the stakeholders in this farce, we will surely be screwed by another!

And your math is probably correct.
But you leave out part of the financial truth:
As the mortgage is paid the net assets will increase. So paying £1.4m per year on a mortgage could easily be more desireble than paying £400k per year in rent.

It's the same argument people have for paying a mortgage on a house as opposed to rent, even though the 'gain' is fairly intangible in the short and medium term.

 

[Big_Ben]

Not sure why ACL are making such a big deal about Fisher's last statement.
Haven't they been telling us all along that they are a profitable and viable business without the football club?

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

By 'you' you mean ACL in their statement - and of course they have every right to use sisu's own spin against them. But the statement from ACL is still spin of their making, and as such it derserves just as much critical attention as if it came from Fisher ... or any other stakeholder!

Spin is the art of misdirection.
The main issue is: Will the club play at the Ricoh next season?
No, says Fisher - the club will under no circumstances play at the Ricoh next season. Is that spin? Maybe it is, and this forum is flooded with threads about the topic - many calling his bluff.
ACL says 'We are baffled with that statement' ... and noone challenges it. Noone ask why there is no invitation to Fisher to come back to the table and sort out a new deal. No, we accept being misdirected and start to talk about building costs instead.

And the issue - 'will ccfc be playing at the Ricoh next season' is forgotten. Both ACL and sisu want us to look away ... and we do!

Methinks that you are more than just a teensy weensy bit biased towards SISU. Dare you to deny it!

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Not sure why ACL are making such a big deal about Fisher's last statement.
Haven't they been telling us all along that they are a profitable and viable business without the football club?

They've also been saying that they want CCFC to stay, unlike SISU..

 

[Godiva]

Methinks that you are more than just a teensy weensy bit biased towards SISU. Dare you to deny it!

Ofcourse you would say that, because labeling a fellow fan, who happens to think a little different from you as a sisu rent boy, is much more important than where we will be playing next season - and maybe every season beyond that.

But in answer to your misdirectional question: I have always been very clear: The club and ACL MUST ultimately be united under the same umbrella.
Following that, it should be quite easy to understand why I think it is important that the club stays at the Ricoh.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

of course we are assuming if we built a new stadium that the football club would own it, is it actually more likely that another sisu company would be set up to build the stadium keeping it safe if the club goes bust and this company would charge ccfc rent, I see no reason to belive with the way sisu run things that the stadium would be owned by ccfc holdings.

Very possible, but these are questions we actually need the answer to, as opposed to speculation, aren't they?

 

[Samo]

Coventry City: Ricoh Arena confused by reports of new stadium plan

Arena Coventry Ltd (ACL), the firm who run the Ricoh Arena, say they are baffled by reports that Coventry City now intend to resolve their year-long rent row by building a new stadium.
Sky Blues chief executive Tim Fisher announced on Saturday that specialists have been hired to advise on new sites.
But solicitor James Powell, from the firm acting for ACL, says he cannot see how the club can afford a new ground.
"I was surprised and taken aback," he told BBC Coventry & Warwickshire.
"My personal impression was that this was an announcement made on the hoof.
ACL manage the stadium on behalf of its joint-owners, Coventry City Council and the Alan Edward Higgs Charity.
Coventry City moved into the 32,000 capacity ground in 2005 after leaving Highfield Road, their home for the previous 106 years.
"There's not been any suggestion of another stadium in and around Coventry in anything Mr Fisher or the club have been saying over the last few months.
"The Football League are looking for a whole host of things. A ground in the vicinity of Coventry is one of those things, but a club with financial stability is far more important.
"Mr Fisher is a director, or the director, of a company that, according to the administrator's report, is £70m in debt and was described as a 'catastrophic insolvency' by the administrator's own barrister.
"You'd be asking the question 'Mr Fisher, where are you getting the money from, given that you've managed to lose £70m over the last few years?'"

Ah progress at last... In ACL's last response to a Fisher statement they were 'flaberghasted'. This time they are merely 'baffled'

 

[stupot07]

Ah progress at last... In ACL's last response to a Fisher statement they were 'flaberghasted'. This time they are merely 'baffled'

Astonishing language.....we just want things to be tickety boo again.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Ofcourse you would say that, because labeling a fellow fan, who happens to think a little different from you as a sisu rent boy, is much more important than where we will be playing next season - and maybe every season beyond that.

But in answer to your misdirectional question: I have always been very clear: The club and ACL MUST ultimately be united under the same umbrella.
Following that, it should be quite easy to understand why I think it is important that the club stays at the Ricoh.

What a fucking patronising post. I have never used the phrase "SISU Rentboy". I don't think you are a Coventry fan-and I'm not alone in that. If you were you would have been a little less partisan at some point in your posting career and actually posted on football matters more regularly-and don't give me your joke McSheffrey reply again :facepalm:

 

[fernandopartridge]

You're only a coventry fan if you fall into line with the status quo on here. Yep.

 

[Samo]

Astonishing language.....we just want things to be tickety boo again.

Yes indeedely doodely!

 

[Paxman II]

Coventry City: Ricoh Arena confused by reports of new stadium plan

Arena Coventry Ltd (ACL), the firm who run the Ricoh Arena, say they are baffled by reports that Coventry City now intend to resolve their year-long rent row by building a new stadium.
Sky Blues chief executive Tim Fisher announced on Saturday that specialists have been hired to advise on new sites.
But solicitor James Powell, from the firm acting for ACL, says he cannot see how the club can afford a new ground.
"I was surprised and taken aback," he told BBC Coventry & Warwickshire.
"My personal impression was that this was an announcement made on the hoof.
ACL manage the stadium on behalf of its joint-owners, Coventry City Council and the Alan Edward Higgs Charity.
Coventry City moved into the 32,000 capacity ground in 2005 after leaving Highfield Road, their home for the previous 106 years.
"There's not been any suggestion of another stadium in and around Coventry in anything Mr Fisher or the club have been saying over the last few months.
"The Football League are looking for a whole host of things. A ground in the vicinity of Coventry is one of those things, but a club with financial stability is far more important.
"Mr Fisher is a director, or the director, of a company that, according to the administrator's report, is £70m in debt and was described as a 'catastrophic insolvency' by the administrator's own barrister.
"You'd be asking the question 'Mr Fisher, where are you getting the money from, given that you've managed to lose £70m over the last few years?'"

A lot of this is spin and some is factually incorrect too. Since when did the Higgs charity 'own' half the stadium with the council?
No wonder we are in such a pickle.

 

[James Smith]

A lot of this is spin and some is factually incorrect too. Since when did the Higgs charity 'own' half the stadium with the council?
No wonder we are in such a pickle.

I think that's just the journalist getting it wrong, the charity and CCC are obviously part owners in ACL.

 

[DaleM]

Welcome to planet Sisu . Seriously all this posturing from Dickhead Tim is doing my head in . If new arena costs £30 MILLION and they got a mortgage on it it would cost at 2.5% interest £135689.80 per month over 25 yrs and £99590.58. over 40 yrs. Thats if interest rates remain this low. Does anyone really believe all this shit . The man is a loon the sums just don't add up. ACL's offer of £400k per year IMO was very good and Sisu should have snapped their hands off.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

You're only a coventry fan if you fall into line with the status quo on here. Yep.

Do you mean "Not a proper Cov fan" like I was accused of being, because I refused to go to home games last year, and in fact for the last 2 years? Grenduffy, ccfc4life, to name but a few. Both myself and NLHWC have been in agreeance all along about SISU and the long road down the leagues...up to now we've been 100% right!!!:facepalm:

 

[WFC]

The most worrying part of all this is that in many ways given the dispute around who ultimately has the right to play in the league, Holdings or Ltd (doesn't matter whilst they are owned by the same people) is that in many ways the best thing from the FL's point of view would be if the requirements to play next season (ground etc) are not met and Coventry are just chucked out meaning neither has the right and they rid themselves of the problem (whatever the cause or whoever's fault) and don't have the risk of being sued by either the owner of Holdings or Ltd (if sold). They can then get back to running the league whilst putting in rules to avoid getting stuck in the middle again.

Given this it is no wonder they are sitting tight, not saying much and they hope a way out will present itself for them in a couple of months.

 

[covmark]

Do you mean "Not a proper Cov fan" like I was accused of being, because I refused to go to home games last year, and in fact for the last 2 years? Grenduffy, ccfc4life, to name but a few. Both myself and NLHWC have been in agreeance all along about SISU and the long road down the leagues...up to now we've been 100% right!!!:facepalm:

What a big bag of bollocks all this "your not a cov fan" is. We're all cov fans, just with differing opinions on the best way forward

 

[sw88]

Can we not hire this solicitor dude to act as administrator? Even if he's not qualified, he seems to be able to see the same things as us

 

[Godiva]

Can we not hire this solicitor dude to act as administrator? Even if he's not qualified, he seems to be able to see the same things as us

Maybe because he only has access to the same information we have ...

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

What a big bag of bollocks all this "your not a cov fan" is. We're all cov fans, just with differing opinions on the best way forward

Did you not read what "Hear the drums"(Fernando) wrote? Or are you like a few others on here attack my posts, just because it's me?

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

By 'you' you mean ACL in their statement - and of course they have every right to use sisu's own spin against them. But the statement from ACL is still spin of their making, and as such it derserves just as much critical attention as if it came from Fisher ... or any other stakeholder!

Spin is the art of misdirection.
The main issue is: Will the club play at the Ricoh next season?
No, says Fisher - the club will under no circumstances play at the Ricoh next season. Is that spin? Maybe it is, and this forum is flooded with threads about the topic - many calling his bluff.
ACL says 'We are baffled with that statement' ... and noone challenges it. Noone ask why there is no invitation to Fisher to come back to the table and sort out a new deal. No, we accept being misdirected and start to talk about building costs instead.

And the issue - 'will ccfc be playing at the Ricoh next season' is forgotten. Both ACL and sisu want us to look away ... and we do!

Godiva people will always believe ACL as their spin is far more realistic. Their statements come through a solicitor and they seem to be trying to keep fans informed of their version of what is going on. All we get from Fisher are disillusioned rantings that don't make sense. Do you really think he will front up and meet the fans in these so called forums, not a chance more spin

 

[covmark]

I wasn't attacking your post pal, I was merely stating we're all cov fans there's no need for all this "your not a cov fan" bullshit. There seems to be a lot of it recently

 

[Godiva]

Godiva people will always believe ACL as their spin is far more realistic. Their statements come through a solicitor and they seem to be trying to keep fans informed of their version of what is going on. All we get from Fisher are disillusioned rantings that don't make sense. Do you really think he will front up and meet the fans in these so called forums, not a chance more spin

It's not so much if spin is beliveable or not - it's the use of spin to sway away from speaking of other things. To turn attention to other subjects.

I have said a few times that ACL are winning (have won) the PR battle. They are capable and willing to use all media to get close to the fans of the club. Sisu are unwilling to do that, and that is plain stupid. But we are fans of ccfc - the football club and all its history.
We should not be taken by a mere management company who live off the football club. Had there never been a ccfc, there would never have been a ACL.
But simply by winning the PR war, ACL have us fighting their war for survival. And we are apparently so willing that we try to push the adnimistrator and the football league to find in favour of ACL and their select choice of potential new owners. And we are apparently so willing that if ACL lose ... or rather if their opponent wins ... we are prepared to starve our club to death. Or even found a new club and start over and to Hell with 130 years of history.

Your question: Do I think Fisher will turn up? I have no idea. My instinct says 'yes, if the forums are acually held, then he will be there.
But who will ask PWKH if he will be there. He is a fan of the club and preoccupied with its well being. He has every right to be there. I would love nothing more than an open debate with him and Fisher.

 

[dongonzalos]

Coventry City: Ricoh Arena confused by reports of new stadium plan

Arena Coventry Ltd (ACL), the firm who run the Ricoh Arena, say they are baffled by reports that Coventry City now intend to resolve their year-long rent row by building a new stadium.
Sky Blues chief executive Tim Fisher announced on Saturday that specialists have been hired to advise on new sites.
But solicitor James Powell, from the firm acting for ACL, says he cannot see how the club can afford a new ground.
"I was surprised and taken aback," he told BBC Coventry & Warwickshire.
"My personal impression was that this was an announcement made on the hoof.
ACL manage the stadium on behalf of its joint-owners, Coventry City Council and the Alan Edward Higgs Charity.
Coventry City moved into the 32,000 capacity ground in 2005 after leaving Highfield Road, their home for the previous 106 years.
"There's not been any suggestion of another stadium in and around Coventry in anything Mr Fisher or the club have been saying over the last few months.
"The Football League are looking for a whole host of things. A ground in the vicinity of Coventry is one of those things, but a club with financial stability is far more important.
"Mr Fisher is a director, or the director, of a company that, according to the administrator's report, is £70m in debt and was described as a 'catastrophic insolvency' by the administrator's own barrister.
"You'd be asking the question 'Mr Fisher, where are you getting the money from, given that you've managed to lose £70m over the last few years?'"

Tim's bluff is a tad embarrassing really....

 

[wingy]

It's not so much if spin is beliveable or not - it's the use of spin to sway away from speaking of other things. To turn attention to other subjects.

I have said a few times that ACL are winning (have won) the PR battle. They are capable and willing to use all media to get close to the fans of the club. Sisu are unwilling to do that, and that is plain stupid. But we are fans of ccfc - the football club and all its history.
We should not be taken by a mere management company who live off the football club. Had there never been a ccfc, there would never have been a ACL.
But simply by winning the PR war, ACL have us fighting their war for survival. And we are apparently so willing that we try to push the adnimistrator and the football league to find in favour of ACL and their select choice of potential new owners. And we are apparently so willing that if ACL lose ... or rather if their opponent wins ... we are prepared to starve our club to death. Or even found a new club and start over and to Hell with 130 years of history.

Your question: Do I think Fisher will turn up? I have no idea. My instinct says 'yes, if the forums are acually held, then he will be there.
But who will ask PWKH if he will be there. He is a fan of the club and preoccupied with its well being. He has every right to be there. I would love nothing more than an open debate with him and Fisher.

Is that because they have used very little PR?? :thinking about:The local media have carried quite a partisan stance on a hell of a lot of the subject matter, possibly until the last month

 

[letsallsingtogether]

I Don't believe there are any real Cov Fans on here except me

I wasn't attacking your post pal, I was merely stating we're all cov fans there's no need for all this "your not a cov fan" bullshit. There seems to be a lot of it recently

 

[James Smith]

Is that because they have used very little PR?? :thinking about:The local media have carried quite a partisan stance on a hell of a lot of the subject matter, possibly until the last month

Well I found the removal of anti SISU posts on the CET as suspicious, can't understand why they did that unless they were defamatory or obscene and I can't imagine they all called SISU (other) four letter words.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Welcome to planet Sisu . Seriously all this posturing from Dickhead Tim is doing my head in . If new arena costs £30 MILLION and they got a mortgage on it it would cost at 2.5% interest £135689.80 per month over 25 yrs and £99590.58. over 40 yrs. Thats if interest rates remain this low. Does anyone really believe all this shit . The man is a loon the sums just don't add up. ACL's offer of £400k per year IMO was very good and Sisu should have snapped their hands off.

With their record they'll be lucky to get the same rates as Greek Govenment Bonds.

 

[Grendel]

Well I found the removal of anti SISU posts on the CET as suspicious, can't understand why they did that unless they were defamatory or obscene and I can't imagine they all called SISU (other) four letter words.

Out of interest "James" have you ever made more than one post about the playing side of the club? I've seen one where you claim to be at a match....are there any more?

I think if you had called yourself Inside Track and had adopted her stance (which shows far more passion and interest in the football club) I do think the lynch mob would be hunting you down..............

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Can somebody tell me which party I should support here

CCFC ltd
CCFC holdings
SBS+L
ARVO
SISU
ACL
CCC
AHT
FL
FA
SBT

Sorry if I've missed anybody but confused