That Farce of a Forum (3 Viewers)

[bigfatronssba]

Have they, or have they not been speaking with people who are not involved with the club?

So they can speak with SISU too.

Have they been talking about transfering the lease from CCFC Ltd to anyone else? No

Only CCFC Ltd can hold the lease, no one else can as far as I'm aware ACL have not tried to transfer to anyone else like you suggest.

 

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[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

How do you know anything either? We can just sit around saying 'he said, she said' and kill the club ourselcves if we want, or we can actually try and get it bloody fixed by shutting them in a room with each other and not letting them out until something's agreed.

No. Don't dodge the question.

You stated they have refused to engage with SISU, yet have with others. Prove it, or retract it. Don't ask questions back of me

 

[Deleted member 5849]

No. Don't dodge the question.

You stated they have refused to engage with SISU, yet have with others. Prove it, or retract it. Don't ask questions back of me

I'm not dodging the question at all, your emotive statements about Ltd, administrators and wotnot was a spurious red herring.

ACL should talk to anybody who might be in a position to have the club playing in Coventry next season.

it is that simple.

Forget who owns what and how, that's a side issue.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I'm not dodging the question at all, your emotive statements about Ltd, administrators and wotnot was a spurious red herring.

ACL should talk to anybody who might be in a position to have the club playing in Coventry next season.

it is that simple.

Forget who owns what and how, that's a side issue.

What a joke. Forget who owns what or how? I think you'll find such trifling issues do have a bearing.

Don't make claims you can't justify

 

[bigfatronssba]

I'm not dodging the question at all, your emotive statements about Ltd, administrators and wotnot was a spurious red herring.

ACL should talk to anybody who might be in a position to have the club playing in Coventry next season.

it is that simple.

Forget who owns what and how, that's a side issue.

The lease is owned by CCFC Ltd, why is that so hard to understand? If Sisu want to talk to ACL they need to own CCFC Ltd.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

What a joke. Forget who owns what or how? I think you'll find such trifling issues do have a bearing.

Don't make claims you can't justify

I can justify all claims based on as much evidence as most everone around here uses, the words of mouthpieces and billy big bollocks talking from all siders, as everybody fiddles trying to find scapegoats while the club burns.

Don't bring up the comment that ACL should only be speaking to the administrator.

They shouldn't.

Perhaps if some swallowed their pride and shut up other than if they spoke to each other (Fisher, SISU, ACL, all) then this mess wouldn't be happening.

Do you agree that ACL should talk to Fisher about plans for next season, if Fisher wants to talk to them?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The lease is owned by CCFC Ltd, why is that so hard to understand? If Sisu want to talk to ACL they need to own CCFC Ltd.

Is it so hard to understand that if ACL are prepared to talk to people not involved with the club about the club playing there, then they should be equally prepared to talk to Fisher and SISU?

Let's not deflect the issue onto who's worthiest.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It would, incidentally, have been nice if instead of the shouting Fisher had been interrogated a bit more about the invite to meet ACL next week, interrogated about why this would be a timewasting tactic, and why he seemed reluctant to do it.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It would, incidentally, have been nice if instead of the shouting Fisher had been interrogated a bit more about the invite to meet ACL next week, interrogated about why this would be a timewasting tactic, and why he seemed reluctant to do it.

No deal to be done surely?? No trust so cannot be any partnership

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Do you agree that ACL should talk to Fisher about plans for next season, if Fisher wants to talk to them?

They should speak to the eight parties who have properly expressed an interest in buying Limited, and therefore the football club, from the administrator who has it up for sale. This, of course, also being the company they have their contract with. That's the right and proper way.

And I very much doubt Fisher would talk to them in any case. Just as it become clear he didn't talk to Conpass; and sidestepped the offer of talks coordinated via the SBT at this week's forum meetings.

Your anger seems wholly and entirely misplaced

 

[Deleted member 5849]

No deal to be done surely?? No trust so cannot be any partnership

Be nice to tie him down as to why.

I know what his answer will be, it'll be that he has a letter saying they won't deal with him.

Well that was then, this is now. If they're prepared to deal with him, and the fans want him to at least talk to them and show willing, even if no deal is to be done, he should do it.

Likewise with ACL.

Or we can all sit and bluster about how horrible it all is. I don't care who's right and who's wrong, I can even accept that either ACL or SISU might not be able to make the deal the other side wants, so there's no result from any talks.

But to refuse to even give it a go, from either side, is sheer bloody mindedness and dick waving.

So at the next forum a pertinent question would be why he thinks (before even listening to what they have to say) ACL offering to speak is a time wasting exercise, and what he thinks ACL have to gain from wasting time.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Your anger seems wholly and entirely misplaced

My anger is at people who seem determined to win arguments, rather than see our club survive.

That seems a reasonable place to place anger, to me.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

My anger is at people who seem determined to win arguments, rather than see our club survive.

That seems a reasonable place to place anger, to me.

Aim it at Fisher then. I won't tell you why, but look at SISU's track record.

Look at what they had when they came. League position. Gone. Crowds. Gone. Trust. Gone. Great stadium. On its way....

And you talk about our club surviving?!?

 

[Ashdown1]

The upshot is though that apart from a small handful of sympathisers on here I cannot find anyone else who want SISU to remain under any circumstances. So Trying to sit them down with anyone, especially those they've wronged is pointless. The preferred bidders have to be from outside the hedge fund, its the only way forward !

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Aim it at Fisher then. I won't tell you why, but look at SISU's track record.

Look at what they had when they came. League position. Gone. Crowds. Gone. Trust. Gone. Great stadium. On its way....

And you talk about our club surviving?!?

I won't aim it at one place and one figurehead.

Black & white polarised views is the surefire way to kill our club.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Ask him if the 'not a penny more' campaign worries him & SISU..

 

[Deleted member 5849]

apart from a small handful of sympathisers on here

You really are certifiable if you read 'sympathy' for them into some people!

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

But i repeat you can do nothing about history, not a man has ever lived who can change it. Our desperate position is about the here and now, the future of our club is about the here and now, we can DO something about the here and now, not history.

Not to mention that it absolves SISU of any blame for our exact present situation; there was absolutely zero inevitability about what has happened coming to pass. It is precisely zero % Richardson's fault that SISU are incapable of negotiating like gentleman rather than gangsters.

How far back can history be an excuse for others actions? It simply doesn't wash, sorry.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I won't aim it at one place and one figurehead.

Black & white polarised views is the surefire way to kill our club.

Nobody has ever stated its one party. But it is evidently one party who, over term, are more culpable than the other.

Let me ask you another question. Fisher now says its got nothing to do with rent, it's all about revenues. ACL can do nothing about that, as contracts are in place with entities such as the Compass JV. They're largely hamstrung.

So what was the point of the rent discussions? The rent being withheld?

If it was never going to work, as we are being told, why not come to that agreement with ACL - as Fisher tells us there is no other outcome - agree to part in good faith, build this fabled new stadium and move from one to the other in an ordered, structured manner?

 

[stupot07]

Not to mention that it absolves SISU of any blame for our exact present situation; there was absolutely zero inevitability about what has happened coming to pass. It is precisely zero % Richardson's fault that SISU are incapable of negotiating like gentleman rather than gangsters.

How far back can history be an excuse for others actions? It simply doesn't wash, sorry.

It doesn't absolve sisu of blame. By ignore history it absolves everyone that has hand in the club getting to position from blame.

 

[Grendel]

Nobody has ever stated its one party. But it is evidently one party who, over term, are more culpable than the other.

Let me ask you another question. Fisher now says its got nothing to do with rent, it's all about revenues. ACL can do nothing about that, as contracts are in place with entities such as the Compass JV. They're largely hamstrung.

So what was the point of the rent discussions? The rent being withheld?

If it was never going to work, as we are being told, why not come to that agreement with ACL - as Fisher tells us there is no other outcome - agree to part in good faith, build this fabled new stadium and move from one to the other in an ordered, structured manner?

Well if we take sisu at their word then they are building a new stadium.

They need to maximise income in the interim. I cannot see an argument that would suggest this would be higher in a stadium outside the city.

So by Monday the trust need a statement from ACL x
Confirming;

Would they agree a 3 year rent arrangement in principal with sisu?

Are they open to negotiation with sisu at all or have they indeed ended communications?

If they are willing to discuss a deal I cannot see any argument suggesting the move away would work.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Is it so hard to understand that if ACL are prepared to talk to people not involved with the club about the club playing there, then they should be equally prepared to talk to Fisher and SISU?

Let's not deflect the issue onto who's worthiest.

Don't you think Fisher should have talked to Compass?

He admitted last night that he hasn't spoken to them at all.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

It doesn't absolve sisu of blame. By ignore history it absolves everyone that has hand in the club getting to position from blame.

That's absolutely true. But given the acknowledged car crash that had gone before, the necessity for thorough due diligence was profound. That should have given the club the basis to finally shed its legacy.

Call me stupid, but some if the historical owners are in my mind due a touch more sympathy than SISU? Why? Well, sometimes, it's awful hard to turn around a failing company. Debts follow debts, and the downhill momentum is hard to pull back.

Administration, or new owners with renegotiated terms are the chance to start again to an extent. It draws a line in the sand. To come through such and still point the finger back to previous owners, or contracts, really isn't good enough. Sorry, it's not

 

[oakey]

Nobody has ever stated its one party. But it is evidently one party who, over term, are more culpable than the other.

Let me ask you another question. Fisher now says its got nothing to do with rent, it's all about revenues. ACL can do nothing about that, as contracts are in place with entities such as the Compass JV. They're largely hamstrung.

So what was the point of the rent discussions? The rent being withheld?

If it was never going to work, as we are being told, why not come to that agreement with ACL - as Fisher tells us there is no other outcome - agree to part in good faith, build this fabled new stadium and move from one to the other in an ordered, structured manner?

Excellent point. TF throws out so many statements designed to confuse it is great when someone, like you, points out inconsistencies.
So what is the rent strike about then, except to wriggle out of a debt? TF contends that ACL cannot give CCFC the revenue anyway, so why has he criticised ACL and CCC at every opportunity?
Doesn't add up, not for the first time.
Obfuscation, confuse and split the fans, blame others. Walk away saying we did our best but the club was a basket case.

 

[Nick]

Isn't it one invite for one forum?

By going twice aren't you denying someone else who might want to, a chance to go?

He is going to really show sisu by storming out again

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

I'm not dodging the question at all, your emotive statements about Ltd, administrators and wotnot was a spurious red herring.

ACL should talk to anybody who might be in a position to have the club playing in Coventry next season.

it is that simple.

Forget who owns what and how, that's a side issue.

Jesus wept...

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

It would, incidentally, have been nice if instead of the shouting Fisher had been interrogated a bit more about the invite to meet ACL next week, interrogated about why this would be a timewasting tactic, and why he seemed reluctant to do it.

The only time it would be worth interrogating Fisher is if you had the fucker tied to the rack; otherwise, he will lie.

 

[stupot07]

That's absolutely true. But given the acknowledged car crash that had gone before, the necessity for thorough due diligence was profound. That should have given the club the basis to finally shed its legacy.

Call me stupid, but some if the historical owners are in my mind due a touch more sympathy than SISU? Why? Well, sometimes, it's awful hard to turn around a failing company. Debts follow debts, and the downhill momentum is hard to pull back.

Administration, or new owners with renegotiated terms are the chance to start again to an extent. It draws a line in the sand. To come through such and still point the finger back to previous owners, or contracts, really isn't good enough. Sorry, it's not

Problem is we don't know the full details of the car crash that went on beforehand, and what people's roles were within that. It's important because someone who may or may not have been involved in those decisions is fronting a potential take over bid.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

It doesn't absolve sisu of blame. By ignore history it absolves everyone that has hand in the club getting to position from blame.

It is utterly irrelevant to what has happened in the last 18 months-unless you're looking for a scapegoat, of course.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Well if we take sisu at their word then they are building a new stadium.

They need to maximise income in the interim. I cannot see an argument that would suggest this would be higher in a stadium outside the city.

So by Monday the trust need a statement from ACL x
Confirming;

Would they agree a 3 year rent arrangement in principal with sisu?

Are they open to negotiation with sisu at all or have they indeed ended communications?

If they are willing to discuss a deal I cannot see any argument suggesting the move away would work.

Well, I think you can't totally sidestep the question I asked above. The whole rent issue does seem to have been strangely handled, doesn't it? Was this simply distressing? It will, naturally, give rise to frustration and bad blood around the negotiating table. That would make any agreement hard, but not impossible. As I have posted before, if Fisher resigned, I am sure any subsequent negotiations headed by someone else representing SISU would be more liable to succeed.

If SISU did buy the club back out of administration, I would be disappointed; but if they have a frank and serious plan to move somewhere new, it would be best for both ACL and SISU to stay until any new venue were ready

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Problem is we don't know the full details of the car crash that went on beforehand, and what people's roles were within that. It's important because someone who may or may not have been involved in those decisions is fronting a potential take over bid.

That's true in one context. But it doesn't have a bearing on SISU's inability to capitalise on why should have been a fresh start

 

[oakey]

Problem is we don't know the full details of the car crash that went on beforehand, and what people's roles were within that. It's important because someone who may or may not have been involved in those decisions is fronting a potential take over bid.

That's true but we have no influence over that. If it happens we have to hold new owners to account and make sure old mistakes are not repeated.
FWIW I think new starts are important and new owners would definitely be held to account now that so many of our fans have scrutinised events and will do again when the Administrator's report is seen.

 

[stupot07]

It is utterly irrelevant to what has happened in the last 18 months-unless you're looking for a scapegoat, of course.

No not looking for a scapegoat. But yes it is still relevant, IMO, why was ltd set up in 1995 for example? That Steve guy said £25m of that debt has been gradually incurred since 1995. And as Ltd are in admin surely the history of the company is relevant.

Not looking for excuses, not looking for a scapegoat, I just want to understand the exact timeline and decisions that were made and by whom. Also why we couldn't afford to build the Ricoh, who sold our sake in ACL and who agreed rent with no revenue return is entirely relevant, given that this whole mess has stemmed from not paying said rent. I'm not excusing what they have done but it is still relevant.

 

[stupot07]

That's true in one context. But it doesn't have a bearing on SISU's inability to capitalise on why should have been a fresh start

I agree. They should have done things completely differently - buying a stake in ACL and restructuring the wage bill should have been first on the list.

 

[rupert_bear]

But WillieStanley and stupot, of course the reasons are an issue and of course certain dates are relevent but to keep harping on about them to Fisher and his side-kick doesn't solve the where we play does it. On Monday it needs the whole hour on that subject alone, where do we play ? what about various cup-ties ? what if it is Walsall or even Wolves when a home game for us do we get most of the tickets ? do the Walsall/Wolves fans go in the away end ? What if the locals kick-up ? What about security for our fans every other week ? All relevent issues, none answered as yet. We have had two forums and both have been dominated by financial issues which is meat and drink to Fisher and friend.