If Otium gets the approval from the FL on monday, does anyone else think that our current 60+ million debt will rise even more? The funds for the initial bid has to come from somewhere, either funds from the sisu group or an additional loan. Otium (Sisu) will want their money back at some point. It may go un-noticed at first, but at the next period for filling accounts, we could see a big increase.
Sisu ownership equals more debt (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter MFenton85
- Start date
skybluericoh
Well-Known Member
Maybe they could build one with a casino, boxes that convert to bedrooms so that they can have an onsite hotel, get planning permission for a railway station to comply with the green lobby, even have some sort of exhibition hall, nah never work
Yes exactly; and what will the rent be? Higher than that being charge by ACL I'll wager.
Otium was setup purely to generate capitol to CCFC, it has no other means of income from what I can see. It came close to being dissolved last month due to inactivity. I wonder how much Appletons been paid to approve them? What means of support do they have behind them? It doesnt add up.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
His salary as administrator.
One of the losing bidders remarked on Appleton's professionalism during the whole process, and accepted its legality.
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
in theory the 60 million should be wiped out
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
Not only will the debt just move across to otium but it will have been a great exercise for sisu because they will be able load holdings also with extra debt. just look at all the extra that will be added for legal eagles.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I really don't know why you all believe that SISU are genuinely intending of moving Coventry to a new stadium.
I thought that you couldn't believe a word that came out of Tim Fisher's mouth?
I thought that you couldn't believe a word that came out of Tim Fisher's mouth?
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
So the Sisu group will be charging more fees for handling and interest on the mostly artificial debt they have created !!!
the likes of NW and Grendel will overlook these millions that the club will be strangled with and carry on bleating about the acl rent wich will look like chicken feed in comparison !!!!
the likes of NW and Grendel will overlook these millions that the club will be strangled with and carry on bleating about the acl rent wich will look like chicken feed in comparison !!!!
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
But what debt exactly? They took over with 30 mill debt. They invested nothing. Then stripped ccfc of all assets. Any player sold was worth 3 or 4 in. We are now break even. So they are owed nothing.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Are you really that simple?
I don't think SISU 'invested' as in injected capital for a sustainable return for the club in the long term, however, you can't argue against the fact that they have supported a club that has spent more than its earned since they took over. Where did the money come from if not from them?
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
They have created extra debt by borrowing money from arvo against ryton and against season tickets every year. Now arvo will be charging us interest as well as sisu charging us arrangement fees for setting up these loans.
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
It also doesn't matter to sisu how big the debt is bigger the better because another one of their company's will be claiming interest on it !!
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
Because they could offer the full amount of the debt. all they have done is moved the debt from that was owed to arvo and holdings across to otium. they are all the same company !!!
No money physically will have changed hands !!
What will it take for you to see how low this lot have reduced CCFC to. Conference football maybe ? If all the money that they reckon has been put in has , then we would be playing Man U and the likes week in , week out. It's all an illusion IMO. Sisu are using CCFC to get rid of losses in other arms of the business.
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D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I hope you mean some other poster with those initials.
Sorry i assumed you were a Sisu rent boy :facepalm:
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
You would assume wrong.
If you want to call me a fuckwit on a thread I haven't even posted in then this is a new low.
Even for here.
Sisued
New Member
'However, the bid from Otium Entertainment Group Limited was substantially more than any of the other three bids received and was the bid which gave the greatest return to the unsecured, non-connected creditors of CCFC Limited by a considerable margin'
Absoloutely no mention of what happens to the debt owed to the connected companies so im assuming that gets swallowed into the new company?
The debts still there and it will be a hell of a lot larger over the next 3 years. In fact you could pretty much guarantee that whatever they 'bid' for the company is now an additional part of the debt
Absoloutely no mention of what happens to the debt owed to the connected companies so im assuming that gets swallowed into the new company?
The debts still there and it will be a hell of a lot larger over the next 3 years. In fact you could pretty much guarantee that whatever they 'bid' for the company is now an additional part of the debt
georgehudson
Well-Known Member
if you are prepared to swallow this edict then that is your choice,
the owners loyalty is to their investors,
& NOT to CCFC fans,
perhaps it might be an idea, if you've got a pension plan, to ask your provider as to which company they are investing in
the owners loyalty is to their investors,
& NOT to CCFC fans,
perhaps it might be an idea, if you've got a pension plan, to ask your provider as to which company they are investing in
SkyBlueBlood
Member
The debt will be the fictitious £70m quoted by SISU plus all legal fees for this admin debacle and all legal fees for pretending to buy a new stadium.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Septic and Fisher are a better double act than Seigfried and Roy......The £70m debt is here...now it's gone...it's over here...now it's gone.....it's over here but is now £120m...now it's gone... it's over here!!!!
In essence, the debt will always be there, only varying sizes to suit SISU's mood on any particular day.
In essence, the debt will always be there, only varying sizes to suit SISU's mood on any particular day.
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
:claping hands::claping hands::claping hands:Exactly perfectly explained
Septic and Fisher are a better double act than Seigfried and Roy......The £70m debt is here...now it's gone...it's over here...now it's gone.....it's over here but is now £120m...now it's gone... it's over here!!!!
In essence, the debt will always be there, only varying sizes to suit SISU's mood on any particular day.
mattylad
Member
no doubt in my mind that every single penny will still be payable
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Think in terms of the debt (aside from that owed to ACL, Higgs Charity) you need to think about the Group situation.
Optium is part of the SBS&L group. It is owned by SBS&L plus ARVO
If CCFC Ltd owes other group members there is a liability on CCFC Ltd accounts. However there is an equal asset sitting on the balance sheet of another group company. The whole thing contras out and can be transferred around the group pretty much how the owners want.
The "investment" from SISU and ARVO that will show in the group accounts will be something like this
amount owed 31/05/11
ARVO £2m
SBS&L £29m
plus
increase in ARVO debt £8.25m (ARVO owed 10.25m am guessing that is not paid off, I suspect any money from ARVO was actually channelled through Otium to CCFC H then in to CCFC Ltd in the first place)
amounts put in to finance the group since 01/06/11 - say losses have been £8m (of which ARVO increase covers £6m capital excluding interest)
plus
what is paid to the non connected creditors of CCFC Ltd say £1m ?
that would be a total put in by SISU and ARVO of £40m .................. and in order to sort out the admin is just the cash necessary to pay off ACL/The Charity, £1m
The football club will be in CCFC H who at 31/05/11 owed other group members £47m (that will have increased in the last 2 years by probably £8m) and will still have a charge over its assets in favour of ARVO £10m. It will also include old debts, as part of that figure,pre SISU that have not been discounted
Its all accountancy smoke and mirrors but one thing is certain our football club will still be in huge debt.
Optium is part of the SBS&L group. It is owned by SBS&L plus ARVO
If CCFC Ltd owes other group members there is a liability on CCFC Ltd accounts. However there is an equal asset sitting on the balance sheet of another group company. The whole thing contras out and can be transferred around the group pretty much how the owners want.
The "investment" from SISU and ARVO that will show in the group accounts will be something like this
amount owed 31/05/11
ARVO £2m
SBS&L £29m
plus
increase in ARVO debt £8.25m (ARVO owed 10.25m am guessing that is not paid off, I suspect any money from ARVO was actually channelled through Otium to CCFC H then in to CCFC Ltd in the first place)
amounts put in to finance the group since 01/06/11 - say losses have been £8m (of which ARVO increase covers £6m capital excluding interest)
plus
what is paid to the non connected creditors of CCFC Ltd say £1m ?
that would be a total put in by SISU and ARVO of £40m .................. and in order to sort out the admin is just the cash necessary to pay off ACL/The Charity, £1m
The football club will be in CCFC H who at 31/05/11 owed other group members £47m (that will have increased in the last 2 years by probably £8m) and will still have a charge over its assets in favour of ARVO £10m. It will also include old debts, as part of that figure,pre SISU that have not been discounted
Its all accountancy smoke and mirrors but one thing is certain our football club will still be in huge debt.
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deanocity3
New Member
they won the bid because they had the highest bid..
yet do they have that amount,i doubt it.
I could have bid £100m,did they have to prove they had the cash.
yet do they have that amount,i doubt it.
I could have bid £100m,did they have to prove they had the cash.
BrisbaneBronco
Well-Known Member
Guess they would only have to show proof of funds of say 1m to cover ACL debt in full.
The rest was a debt to themselves
CarpyCov84
New Member
They won the bid due to a weak administrator and out bidding anyone else by miles due to owing themselves the money it's a utter disgrace if this is allowed to go ahead from the F.A...