lifelongcityfan
Well-Known Member
do you really believe sisu will take notice of a fans forum? they will only use a group to further their own interests.
I spent 2 and half hours with TF, and can tell you he doesnt care what the fans think.
Latest Trust Email (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter Nick
- Start date
do you really believe sisu will take notice of a fans forum? they will only use a group to further their own interests.
I spent 2 and half hours with TF, and can tell you he doesnt care what the fans think.
Because believe it or not this football club means a lot to me as it clearly dose to you I wanted the trust to be part of the club going forward and like I keep saying I feel they have dropped the ball on this one and put themselves in an untenable position
I'm fine thanks
That's the problem isn't it you've decided a course and you are heading for the iceberg at full speed, your not the only person to talk to TF and I didn't get that impression
Just because six or seven posters express dissatisfaction does not equate to the trust being out of touch or wrong ,they've been extremely tame in my opinion in regard to the abusive stance the club has taken towards its customer base.
They are far more in touch with opinion measured in any poll/petition or even the the Clubs own Survey,your opinion is'nt worth giving air to TBH.
CJ (or whoever from the trust)
Will there be a full agenda sent out ahead of next weeks AGM? Given the level of dissatisfaction and confusion on here about the purpose and direction of the Trust, I think we need to have a full debate about this issue at the AGM.
There will be difficult questions asked and these views need to be aired - or else the Trust cannot continue to be seen as a credible fans representative. A good starting point would be an examination of the aims and constitution of the trust which appear to have been abandoned without consultation with the members. Refusing a dialogue with Fisher/Sisu looks a bit misguided now as they effectively own the club! We can take a protest position all we like, but that doesnt chime with the current reality - far better if the trust had some practical plans in place ie coach travel to a potential substitute ground etc if the worst came to the worst. there must be plenty of elderly/no car fans who WOULD go if given support to do so. Would not this be a better use of your time. I dont know....BUT it feels more constructive and practical than the hotheaded and badly phrased emails which appear to be the trusts only current tactic.
Will there be a full agenda sent out ahead of next weeks AGM? Given the level of dissatisfaction and confusion on here about the purpose and direction of the Trust, I think we need to have a full debate about this issue at the AGM.
There will be difficult questions asked and these views need to be aired - or else the Trust cannot continue to be seen as a credible fans representative. A good starting point would be an examination of the aims and constitution of the trust which appear to have been abandoned without consultation with the members. Refusing a dialogue with Fisher/Sisu looks a bit misguided now as they effectively own the club! We can take a protest position all we like, but that doesnt chime with the current reality - far better if the trust had some practical plans in place ie coach travel to a potential substitute ground etc if the worst came to the worst. there must be plenty of elderly/no car fans who WOULD go if given support to do so. Would not this be a better use of your time. I dont know....BUT it feels more constructive and practical than the hotheaded and badly phrased emails which appear to be the trusts only current tactic.
Samo
Well-Known Member
Can you imagine the shit they'd have got if they had not taken a very definate stance on sisu taking the club out of the city? They'd have been called all kinds of spineless bastards! They had no choice in difficult circumstances.
Why there is so much trust bashing is beyond me. There have been mistakes by EVERY party involved in this sorry mess and the trust will not get everything right. But... They are a bunch of City fans who love the club and are trying to make a difference. For suck's sake give them a break! If you don't agree with trust policy then join and have your say. Trust bashers who do nothing themselves but snipe at others are nothing but a negative influence and pretty low in my opinion.
And that's the problem isn't it you said it "you're opinion isn't worth giving air to" well as a supporter ill say what I like buttercup
If you put you're head above the parapet you should expect it to get shot off, they appointed themselves so deal with it and your other point about every party involved has made mistakes well tell the trust that because they haven't seen that part and only ever attack sisu and forget about CCC and ACL
Nick
Administrator
IWhy is the only argument at least they are doing something, has anybody answered the what has been achieved question yet?
Why can constructive criticism not be accepted and worked on rather than the same old boring replies?
I don't think anybody has an issue with action.being taken, it is the type of action that is being taken.
This is coming from trust members too...
Why is nothing taken on board?
Why can constructive criticism not be accepted and worked on rather than the same old boring replies?
I don't think anybody has an issue with action.being taken, it is the type of action that is being taken.
This is coming from trust members too...
Why is nothing taken on board?
Carry on fella ,who's going to hear you??
They won't answer because they can't I've pushed but never get any useful answer other then my opinion doesn't count?
Nick
Administrator
I agree, they should be working with all parties to get the best for the fans. It hasn't been confirmed that we are somewhere else yet, yet trust should be working to get the best deal for the fans in which ever outcome we have.
They have said they won't speak to sisu and if sisu are going to be the owners it renders the trust useless doesn't it?
Nick
Administrator
So you are saying trust members opinions don't count if they aren't the same as the sisu out knuckle dragging?
Clearly not you...
Samo
Well-Known Member
Because almost all of it is not constructive.
Nick
Administrator
What is classed as constructive by the trust? People are calling out for more member consultation for a start...
Nick
Administrator
I hope the agm and the vote etc is done online too for members who can't get there
I will go out on a lim and say probably not mate
Nick
Administrator
Surely it should other wise all members don't get a vote?
Samo
Well-Known Member
And I would support that Nick. But the truth is most of it is just dismissive, abusive bitching by people who do fuck all and would lack the balls if they were out in the real world.
You're making assumptions about people you don't know what people would do and for that matter know who they are if you want people to respect you're opinion then respect other people's if you are referring to me as I believe you are I don't believe you fully read what I'm trying to say
magic82ball
New Member
Nothing's been achieved by anyone. Ever. For as long as sisu have been in town. And the trust will continue to hit brick walls no matter how smart a game they play. It seems they are just a group of angry city supporters doing what they feel is best for the club, same as everyone on here accept they have a soap box to stand on.
Chinny_Hill
New Member
Thats "Limb"
BBSB
New Member
Easy Questions for the SBT :
- How many of the 2200 current members were allowed to vote for the current board?
- How many votes did each current board member get?
- Are the members going to get a chance to elect / re-elect the entire board at the AGM?
- Will members, who are unable to attend the AGM, be permitted to vote in the board election?
- How many of the 2200 current members were allowed to vote for the current board?
- How many votes did each current board member get?
- Are the members going to get a chance to elect / re-elect the entire board at the AGM?
- Will members, who are unable to attend the AGM, be permitted to vote in the board election?
Chinny_Hill
New Member
Samo
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to go back through the thread but in the interests of fairness I will read and re-read your future post on the subject with interest. For the record, I was generalising and not singling you out.
IWhy is the only argument at least they are doing something, has anybody answered the what has been achieved question yet?
Why can constructive criticism not be accepted and worked on rather than the same old boring replies?
I don't think anybody has an issue with action.being taken, it is the type of action that is being taken.
This is coming from trust members too...
Why is nothing taken on board?
It's all pretty simple - because they simply have no answers! The reason why they can only answer my criticism with "you are full of shit" or "I don't know what I am talking about", yet cannot and have never not once laid out a single bit of evidence to contradict me!
If I am "full of shit" where have I been inaccurate? I said they are indecisive - cannot decide if e-mail was good or bad
I said they couldn't effectively organise protests - how many turned up to all three combined? Didn't even break double figures for all of them combined!
I said they were secretive and deceitful. The chair has denied Steve.B50 is part of the trust, and still haven't answered how they intend to spend the fighting fund!
Every time I have made an accusation aimed at these people I have backed it up with evidence. Have they ever come back and said what they have done - EVER? There trolls thought they were clever by trying to turn my question around. Problem is I have done things - things they haven't even tried! Yet do they come back and say stuff along the lines of they have done x or done Y? No, because they hadn't.
Did I not say they would sabotage the forums - before they occured? Guess what, they sabotaged them by asking a ludicrous amount of questions (most of which were rhetiorical and hence couldn't be answered!)
Point is people pay to join this group! As myself and others have said, if it were purely voluntary, and they didn't make it clear they wanted to be on the board (Let's not forget they have never even pretended they were going to pay for this privilege!) then maybe criticism could be considered harsh.
However, just look at the vitriole they defend themselves with. They don't defend themselves with reasoned argument - because they cannot. They clearly haven't heard of the truism if you point a finger 3 fingers point back.
They criticise ACL, and sisu, post a long list of questions, which is fair enough. But look at the attacks when you ask the same of them! If they want to be on the board, firstly it shouldn't be free, and in anycase why should it be given put to them? They do not represent 10% of fans, so why should they be allowed 20% control (I may well ask Hoff & Elliot that one). Secondly when you put yourself up for such a high profile position, it is naive in the extreme not to be expected to be held to account!
And therein lies the rub. They want authority without responsibility. Power without accountability. It's no good saying they are elected by their members, especially if only 20-30 people turn up to any of their meetings! That is even more true if the want to be part of running the club!
No the only really fair way to get fan participation, is to use the very model the group claim they want, but do not actually want - fan share ownership!
Give the fans shares in the club once more, then if they want a significant slice of the pie they can bloody well pay for it like everyone else! What is abundantly clear is that there are too many people involved on power trips.
You have the clique acting as unelected fans reps, you even have some deluded failed radio presenter (any presenter who has been in the business this long and is still only on local radio has clearly failed) thinking he is some king or something summoning court whenever it comes on! Sadly not everyone's schedule revolves around this cretin, although clearly he seems obsessed with me!)
It would be a shame that the sbt is falling to pieces if they were a force for good in the community. Thankfully they are just a bunch of nast self-absorbed hypocrites trying to steal away the club t out to from the fans for themselves, so I raise my glass to the demise of this clique! And hopefully one day BBC realising they cannot have such an idiot for a broadcaster and it be put out to pasture
Why can constructive criticism not be accepted and worked on rather than the same old boring replies?
I don't think anybody has an issue with action.being taken, it is the type of action that is being taken.
This is coming from trust members too...
Why is nothing taken on board?
It's all pretty simple - because they simply have no answers! The reason why they can only answer my criticism with "you are full of shit" or "I don't know what I am talking about", yet cannot and have never not once laid out a single bit of evidence to contradict me!
If I am "full of shit" where have I been inaccurate? I said they are indecisive - cannot decide if e-mail was good or bad
I said they couldn't effectively organise protests - how many turned up to all three combined? Didn't even break double figures for all of them combined!
I said they were secretive and deceitful. The chair has denied Steve.B50 is part of the trust, and still haven't answered how they intend to spend the fighting fund!
Every time I have made an accusation aimed at these people I have backed it up with evidence. Have they ever come back and said what they have done - EVER? There trolls thought they were clever by trying to turn my question around. Problem is I have done things - things they haven't even tried! Yet do they come back and say stuff along the lines of they have done x or done Y? No, because they hadn't.
Did I not say they would sabotage the forums - before they occured? Guess what, they sabotaged them by asking a ludicrous amount of questions (most of which were rhetiorical and hence couldn't be answered!)
Point is people pay to join this group! As myself and others have said, if it were purely voluntary, and they didn't make it clear they wanted to be on the board (Let's not forget they have never even pretended they were going to pay for this privilege!) then maybe criticism could be considered harsh.
However, just look at the vitriole they defend themselves with. They don't defend themselves with reasoned argument - because they cannot. They clearly haven't heard of the truism if you point a finger 3 fingers point back.
They criticise ACL, and sisu, post a long list of questions, which is fair enough. But look at the attacks when you ask the same of them! If they want to be on the board, firstly it shouldn't be free, and in anycase why should it be given put to them? They do not represent 10% of fans, so why should they be allowed 20% control (I may well ask Hoff & Elliot that one). Secondly when you put yourself up for such a high profile position, it is naive in the extreme not to be expected to be held to account!
And therein lies the rub. They want authority without responsibility. Power without accountability. It's no good saying they are elected by their members, especially if only 20-30 people turn up to any of their meetings! That is even more true if the want to be part of running the club!
No the only really fair way to get fan participation, is to use the very model the group claim they want, but do not actually want - fan share ownership!
Give the fans shares in the club once more, then if they want a significant slice of the pie they can bloody well pay for it like everyone else! What is abundantly clear is that there are too many people involved on power trips.
You have the clique acting as unelected fans reps, you even have some deluded failed radio presenter (any presenter who has been in the business this long and is still only on local radio has clearly failed) thinking he is some king or something summoning court whenever it comes on! Sadly not everyone's schedule revolves around this cretin, although clearly he seems obsessed with me!)
It would be a shame that the sbt is falling to pieces if they were a force for good in the community. Thankfully they are just a bunch of nast self-absorbed hypocrites trying to steal away the club t out to from the fans for themselves, so I raise my glass to the demise of this clique! And hopefully one day BBC realising they cannot have such an idiot for a broadcaster and it be put out to pasture
IMO most of the criticism of the Trust on here has been constructive. If you claim to represent the fans then you really should ask what the fans want. The Not One Penny More campaign has divided opinion as you can see when it is discussed on here.
To then unilaterally hitch your wagon to a contentious campaign and expect members to give you a round of applause because, you know, the Trust are actually 'doing something', is incredibly naive.
To then unilaterally hitch your wagon to a contentious campaign and expect members to give you a round of applause because, you know, the Trust are actually 'doing something', is incredibly naive.
I think you've covered everything I've been trying to say
By the same reasoning then.. A dozen or so people turning up for their protests does not represent their membership either ?
Sorry that's a terrible argument.
All member concerns should be listened too.. And when it's multiple members, airing pretty much the same concerns, then I thinks it's clear you have a potential issue...