No FL ruling for AT LEAST a month! (9 Viewers)

[RoboCCFC90]

The will rent Nene Park before buying it !

Doesn't matter if it's rented or buying. Back to those forums with Fisher he said a deal couldn't be agreed or discussed with the public while in Admin if that's the case the Administrator needs to arrange something and if time wasn't tight..

Edit: I should just add with Warsaw now saying it won't happen and with it also rumoured that Birmingham have heard nothing our choices are slimming..

 

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[lordsummerisle]

Administation's costs will be settled from the assets of the business, it's ongoing income, or from it's purchase; I understand

From that it looks like Appleton's cheque may be "in the post" for quite some time then.

 

[MusicDating]

It's in SISU's interests to leave admin ASAP and it's in ACL's interests to drag admin out.

This game of chess continues. Trouble is no-one seems to know whose move it is next.

 

[chiefdave]

And let us remember - before the hysteria starts again - that ACL's directors are legally obliged to act in the best interests of the company they represent. They are faced with a no-win situation. Refuse to sign the CVA and they're accused of all sorts on here, and I hate to think what's happen on GMK. Sign it and they may not be conducting themselves according to their terms of their office

My understanding is that all arrears to ACL will be paid under the terms of Optiums takeover, can't see that ACL can have any busienss case for not agreeing to that.

Administration only covers up to a certain date so I'm not sure they could reject it on the grounds that CCFC may no longer play at the Ricoh. That would be a seperate issue and if the lease hasn't been terminated by going into administration and the club walk away ACL would have to pursue them for the balance of the contract as a seperate action, possibly putting us into administration for a second time.

More likley, if the lease is still valid, Optium will liquidate Ltd and unless the lease is tied to the Golden Share ACL will be a creditor of a company being liquidated with no value or assets.

 

[Grendel]

Is whoever puts a company in administration liable for the costs of that administration or is it the company being put into administration that is liable for it?

Absolutely no idea myself.

It's the company that voluntarily declared administration.

What I am puzzled about is that I thought only major creditors could enforce the CVA rule. Even if ACL had a say on it I can't believe they would vote against it. They should surely offer some form of bargaining tool - 2 years rent free for payback of the £600,000 owed.

Reject it and its minus 15 points at best. The club also by definition will then be moving.

All in all a very bad day.

 

[chiefdave]

(My next question is not intended to scare anyone but needs to be asked)

Can someone clarify that if we do not find a ground to play in before the first game are we not expelled from that competition?

I imagine you forefit if you can't play but I'm not sure if that triggers immediate expulsion or you have to miss certain number of games before you're thrown out.

 

[lordsummerisle]

This all proves - if anyone was in any doubt - that SHITSU / Odious are nowhere near as stupid as TF sometimes make them appear. An unplayable ball is now, seemingly, in ACL's court:- refuse to sign off on the CVA and they consign us to a 15 point deduction and (almost certainly) League 2 or accept it and allow SHITSU / Odious to strengthen their grip on the club and to take it god knows where

The long term aim of SHITSU has always looked like it was to force ACL out of business or into a fire sale and it looks like they are going to succeed, ultimately, in one or both of those objectives

I'm afraid that whatever way one looks at it SHITSU have won / are winning and in due course, having paid lip service to "fit and proper" requirements the FL will rubber stamp and endorse that victory. God its depressing!

Is SHITSU like SISU and Odious like Otium?


All these different company names confuse me.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

I agree - the inference from the article could be read as a less than 100% settlement for 3rd party creditors.....

Knowing what we do; I can't see how this can happen. Move aside the rights and wrongs of any given rent level for a moment; ACL have a contract they should have been paid against. They haven't. Their position vindicated in court.

Every sinew in the body of it's directors would have to - simply have to - make them protect the best interests of their business with regards their settlement from administration; and as such when they should agree or refuse to a voluntary arrangement.

How can they agree if it financially disenfranchises them?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I imagine you forefit if you can't play but I'm not sure if that triggers immediate expulsion or you have to miss certain number of games before you're thrown out.

The thing is at this point forget one we aren't able to fulfill our fixtures, no ground, no hope..

 

[lordsummerisle]

(My next question is not intended to scare anyone but needs to be asked)

Can someone clarify that if we do not find a ground to play in before the first game are we not expelled from that competition?

Wouldn't have thought so, could always play just actual "away" games first until something sorted.

It happened the first season at the Ricoh when it wasn't ready for the season kick-off.

 

[Grendel]

Knowing what we do; I can't see how this can happen. Move aside the rights and wrongs of any given rent level for a moment; ACL have a contract they should have been paid against. They haven't. Their position vindicated in court.

Every sinew in the body of it's directors would have to - simply have to - make them protect the best interests of their business with regards their settlement from administration; and as such when they should agree or refuse to a voluntary arrangement.

How can they agree if it financially disenfranchises them?

How does it financially benefit them not signing it?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

My understanding is that all arrears to ACL will be paid under the terms of Optiums takeover, can't see that ACL can have any busienss case for not agreeing to that.

Administration only covers up to a certain date so I'm not sure they could reject it on the grounds that CCFC may no longer play at the Ricoh. That would be a seperate issue and if the lease hasn't been terminated by going into administration and the club walk away ACL would have to pursue them for the balance of the contract as a seperate action, possibly putting us into administration for a second time.

More likley, if the lease is still valid, Optium will liquidate Ltd and unless the lease is tied to the Golden Share ACL will be a creditor of a company being liquidated with no value or assets.

Do you have any evidence of that?

Looking at the totality of ACL's position; they're what - 15% - into a 50 year lease. And SISU have stated intention to move and break it.

What if one of the other bidders, who Appleton has deemed as non-preferential - had a stated aim whereby they would contract to the Ricoh for the balance of the agreement - i.e. over 40 years?

Could ACL not declare the SISU's exit plan, whilst clearing arrears, wasn't as good an exit as others on the table? I'm asking the question here; I hasten to add....

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

How does it financially benefit them not signing it?

It may bring others buyers into the arena, as above?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

This may have been asked already but does this mean we can't exit admin until the football league ruling in a month?

That's going to leave us with no ground and no new players with like a week to start the season.

 

[Grendel]

Do you have any evidence of that?

Looking at the totality of ACL's position; they're what - 15% - into a 50 year lease. And SISU have stated intention to move and break it.

What if one of the other bidders, who Appleton has deemed as non-preferential - had a stated aim whereby they would contract to the Ricoh for the balance of the agreement - i.e. over 40 years?

Could ACL not declare the SISU's exit plan, whilst clearing arrears, wasn't as good an exit as others on the table? I'm asking the question here; I hasten to add....

They are a minority creditor so that is highly unlikely the administrator has I believe calculated their losses to be £600,000.

By not signing a CVA it means nothing financially. It just means the club has minus 15 points and plays elsewhere.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Wouldn't have thought so, could always play just actual "away" games first until something sorted.

It happened the first season at the Ricoh when it wasn't ready for the season kick-off.

That was different tho buddy we had a plan and we knew that moving into the Ricoh would be the case we are actually talking about not even being able to share a ground

 

[Grendel]

It may bring others buyers into the arena, as above?

How? The foltba club carries on playing it just means ACL have objected.

Can someone confirm they have any power I'm this regard. Appleton clearly stated their debt as less than 10% of the total which I thought gave them no rights regarding this at all.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

They are a minority creditor so that is highly unlikely the administrator has I believe calculated their losses to be £600,000.

By not signing a CVA it means nothing financially. It just means the club has minus 15 points and plays elsewhere.

Are you sure? I know 75% of the creditors need to agree, but is this by value, or number of 'votes'?

 

[covmark]

Is SHITSU like SISU and Odious like Otium?


All these different company names confuse me.

Hmm was just thinking this, shitsu is nothing like sisu anyway fucks sake

 

[chiefdave]

Do you have any evidence of that?

Looking at the totality of ACL's position; they're what - 15% - into a 50 year lease. And SISU have stated intention to move and break it.

No that's why I said it's my understanding based on what little has been said.

Admin is a point in time, what happens with the rest of the lease is a totally different issue and it could well be the case that the lease is void at the point of an insolvency event, certainly with all the talk of CCFC moving away ACL have made no statements indicating they believe their is a valid lease. In fact you could say the opposite, the fact that they made a 3 game deal with PA at the end of last season and are offering the use of the stadium at cost whilst in administration could be taken as an indication that there is no longer a valid lease.

However assume the lease is still valid, and is with Ltd. You can bet that everything else will be transferred to holdings and unless their is a term in the lease that moves it with the golden share surely Ltd will just be liquidated and ACL will be trying to recover the term of the lease off a company that is no longer trading and has no assets. Good luck to them getting anywhere with that.

 

[Grendel]

Are you sure? I know 75% of the creditors need to agree, but is this by value, or number of 'votes'?

No I am not sure but there must be a ceiling surely or someone could be owed 10 pence and refuse CVA. I assumed the debt piling was to create a monopoly vote on CVA exit and to avoid the scenario.

 

[chiefdave]

Are you sure? I know 75% of the creditors need to agree, but is this by value, or number of 'votes'?

It's by value but it has been raised on here that there is also an issue of a % of unrelated creditors having to agree. however the likley outcome would be that the CVA would be pushed through by the administrator and passed by the court as an unapproved CVA so SISU would still end up in charge but now with -15 points.

 

[chiefdave]

No I am not sure but there must be a ceiling surely or someone could be owed 10 pence and refuse CVA. I assumed the debt piling was to create a monopoly vote on CVA exit and to avoid the scenario.

quite common for a CVA to have a clause that people owed under a certain amount get paid in full. There surely must be a rule that if you're getting everything you're owed you either don't get a vote or can't vote against it.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

Of course they are not fit and proper is this a fit and proper way to run a football club or any fooking business
Football League custodians of the game my arse:jerkit::jerkit:
the way football is run in this country needs to be examined in a Public Enquiry its Fookin shamefull

 

[lordsummerisle]

Of course they are not fit and proper is this a fit and proper way to run a football club or any fooking business
Football League custodians of the game my arse:jerkit::jerkit:
the way football is run in this country needs to be examined in a Public Enquiry its Fookin shamefull

If football was run as a proper business there would probably be only about three teams in the whole football league.

 

[Evo1883]

What the hell , this is all just a load of bollocks that will just end with probably the same crappy outcome ."we believe otium pass the fit and proper test " yes maybe in communist Russia they would've but come on .
the whole situation is getting on my nerves

 

[Noggin]

Are you sure? I know 75% of the creditors need to agree, but is this by value, or number of 'votes'?

A google says it's 75% of the creditors who vote by value need to agree. so if you owe 1 mill but only 2 people turn up, one owed £4000 and one owed £10000, if the 3k guy votes against it doesn't pass even though it's really only 4% of the debt.

then if 75% of creditors who turn up (in person or by proxy) by value vote for then also 50% of unconnected, unsecured voters by value who turn up (again in person or by proxy) also need to vote for. Then if both of those pass then 50% of the shareholders have to vote for as well (though obviously that isn't an issue here)

 

[fernandopartridge]

Are you sure? I know 75% of the creditors need to agree, but is this by value, or number of 'votes'?

It's by value.

 

[torchomatic]

The Wanderers, Royal Engineers and Newton Heath.

If football was run as a proper business there would probably be only about three teams in the whole football league.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

If the season didn't start till October I wouldn't mind.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

What the hell , this is all just a load of bollocks that will just end with probably the same crappy outcome ."we believe otium pass the fit and proper test " yes maybe in communist Russia they would've but come on .
the whole situation is getting on my nerves

Hedge funds in the Soviet Union? Good one.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

The Wanderers, Royal Engineers and Newton Heath.

I'm one of those "anyone but Newton Heath" supporters myself.

 

[Otis]

If the season didn't start till October I wouldn't mind.

That's what we did last year didn't we? Didn't start playing til October at the earliest.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

If football was run as a proper business there would probably be only about three teams in the whole football league.

And whose fault is that mine or yours no the people who regulate the game same as it was the fault of the regulatory bodies who let the banks go into lunacy overdrive.

 

[lordsummerisle]

And whose fault is that mine or yours no the people who regulate the game same as it was the fault of the regulatory bodies who let the banks go into lunacy overdrive.

A lot of it down to the formation of the Premier League, of which we were enthusiatic founder members.