CCFC staff letter (5 Viewers)

[CJ_covblaze]

One of my full timers also works for the academy in his spare time. This morning he received a letter from Fisher stating everything in the garden was rosy. It also stated his employment is being transferred over to Otium.

Standard practice or premature?

 

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[fernandopartridge]

One of my full timers also works for the academy in his spare time. This morning he received a letter from Fisher stating everything in the garden was rosy. It also stated his employment is being transferred over to Otium.

Standard practice or premature?

Fisher is complying with TUPE law. I am not sure of the specific staff consultation requirements but it may be that a defined notice period is required.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Surely, if as Fisher has stated, all staff are employed by Holdings, why do the staff need to be transferred over?

 

[jas365]

Was going to post exactly the same comment as above ^^, after we keep being told that Holdings is the football club!

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Surely, if as Fisher has stated, all staff are employed by Holdings, why do the staff need to be transferred over?

That's one of the things that's confusing me. Sorry I forgot to make that point!

 

[duffer]

One of my full timers also works for the academy in his spare time. This morning he received a letter from Fisher stating everything in the garden was rosy. It also stated his employment is being transferred over to Otium.

Standard practice or premature?

If he works for CCFC Ltd, then very dodgy I would think, given it's under the control of the Administrator. If he thought he worked for Ltd, then I'd ask them to provide evidence that he doesn't - contract of employment might be a start.

If already a Holdings employee, probably not much to be done, though I would write and ask for clarity regarding the transfer to Otium, get written confirmation regarding retaining existing terms and conditions of employment, pension details, continuity of service etc.

TUPE covers most of this anyway, iirc, but given the kind of snakes SISU are I'd be worried about them trying to slide out of some of their responsibilities to their employees.

Having said all that, would he be more secure working for Holdings anyway, given that SISUs long term plan must be to try to liquidate Ltd? Tricky, if it's your job on the line.

 

[fernandopartridge]

It may be that Otium will takeover holdings as well and bring the two companies together. I don't know.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Employees could initially ask the sender of the letter for a copy of the contract of employment they signed.

That should be fun, but may not be wise for an individual with a family to support, so caution required.

 

[duffer]

Employees could initially ask the sender of the letter for a copy of the contract of employment they signed.

That should be fun, but may not be wise for an individual with a family to support, so caution required.

Take your point, but an employer can't sack you for asking about details regarding your employment. That really would get them in front of a tribunal!

 

[Cranfield Sky Blue]

Take your point, but an employer can't sack you for asking about details regarding your employment. That really would get them in front of a tribunal!

And again TUPE would be in force which gives a lot of protection. Beware though, the length of time TUPE is in process is very unclear.

 

[dplzll]

One of my full timers also works for the academy in his spare time. This morning he received a letter from Fisher stating everything in the garden was rosy. It also stated his employment is being transferred over to Otium.

Standard practice or premature?

does it state where his workplace will be ???

 

[CJ_covblaze]

does it state where his workplace will be ???

Nope. Just that the garden's rosy and lovely.

 

[crowsnest]

It may be that Otium will takeover holdings as well and bring the two companies together. I don't know.

Otium already own Holdings - have done since April 2011

 

[crowsnest]

Nope. Just that the garden's rosy and lovely.

Must have a new groundsman!

 

[Cranfield Sky Blue]

Otium already own Holdings - have done since April 2011

Which would suggest the person in question worked for Ltd...... That dormant company??? :thinking about:

 

[RegTheDonk]

...If he works for CCFC Ltd, then very dodgy I would think, given it's under the control of the Administrator. If he thought he worked for Ltd, then I'd ask them to provide evidence that he doesn't - contract of employment might be a start...

Was there not an employee of the acadamy that had a go at Fisher during the CWR forum about this payslip saying CCFC Ltd, or something to that effect? Fishers response was something like "who do you think pays you, its SISU"

 

[RPHunt]

I think a lot of this comes down to who now owns Otium.

If, as I suspect, it is SISU, rather than their investors, then SISU will end up owning everything. The other companies can be liquidated and their investors money will be totally written off.

Everything that SISU have been saying about ground share, new stadium, etc. has been a smokescreen to cover up who it is they were really screwing. This wouldn't be the first time an unscrupulous investment manager has ended up owning the assets that used to belong to their investors.

There may be some comfort for the investors if they have capital gains from other investments against which they can now offset the loss on their CCFC gamble.

 

[adamdav68]

Nope. Just that the garden's rosy and lovely.

Well my bloody roses haven't come out yet

 

[johnniericoh]

And again TUPE would be in force which gives a lot of protection. Beware though, the length of time TUPE is in process is very unclear.

From my previous experience 90 days is the norm for TUPE

 

[gary_ccfcforever]

To the employees of Coventry City Football Club (the Club)

21 June 2013

Dear Sir/Madam

There has been a lot in the press recently about the appointment of administrators to
Coventry City Football Club Limtited (CCFC) and about their desire to sell such right, title and interest they have (if any)in the Club to purchaser. As you may have read in the press over the weekend, on 14 June the administrators decided thatt their preferred purchaser is Otium Entertainment Group Limited(Otium). Coventry City Footabll Club (Holdings) Limitied (CCH, which as you will know has for many years been running the Club and in particular has been making all payments to its employees, is also planning to sell its interest in the Club.The purpose of this letter is to let you know that it is accordingly intended that your contract of employment will transfer to Otium, which is the immediate parent company of CCH. In the case of playing staff registered with the Football league and the FA, it is proposed thatt the transfer of employment will follow
approval by the Football Leagueand the FA. In all cases, your terms and conditions will be unchanged and this transfer will be seen as continuous for the purposes of employment legislation and will not be seen as a break in your period of employment.

Ideally we would intend to provide a longer period of consultation for you as employees to enable you to ask questions that you have. However, timing constraints relating to the sale by the CCFC admininstrators have meant that we have not sufficient time to do more than inform you of the proposed change in writing today.

Should you wish to discuss or raise any question with me as then please feel free to contact me on the details below. Alternatively, if any employees wish to nominate a spokesperson to represent you to discuss the same with me please inform me of the nominated individual's details in writing.

Please retain this letter for your records and take advice as you feel appropriate as to its
content.

The recent weeks have been particularly difficult ones for the Club and for all its employees. I wish to place on record how grateful I am for all your hard work and loyalty tot he Club throughtout this period. Under the proposed ownership of Otium I sincerely hope that the Club's future will be significantly brighter and I look forward to working with you going forward to help the Sky Blues the success that the Club deserves.

Yours faithfully



Tim Fisher

 

[chiefdave]

so from that letter looks like they're going to wrap everything up into one company. what are the odds there's been a conversation with the FL who have told them they can have the GS so long as everything ends up back in one company.

 

[simmouk]

I got the letter. I read it. I laughed and then just put it in my folder with the rest of my other CCFC stuff - wageslips etc.

The bit where the letter said "Should you wish to discuss or raise any question with me as then please feel free to contact me on the details below" - there were no details below on the letter. There was the postal address of the Ryton training ground, but that's it. Guess that's to be expected.

I'm still waiting the 'come back' from "the club" - or is it (the Club) about my radio interview.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Anyway, it is only preferred bidder status, no one should sign a thing while the eventual owners are uncertain.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

They need a proofreader!

 

[fernandopartridge]

Otium already own Holdings - have done since April 2011

That doesn't mean they own the contracts of employment.

 

[duffer]

Hmm. There is a lot of legislation around TUPE, particularly with regard to consultation. Off the top of my head, I don't think this letter covers it properly, but there may be more to come.

In particular there's something about the right to consultation that sticks in my mind, there's a very particular process to follow that usually involves electing a representative. You don't typically individually consult in TUPE, in my experience. The employer is legally bound to show that he has consulted properly, I don't think there's a get out just because they're in a hurry to sell!

My honest approach, as an employee, would simply be to ask for clarity. Is this a transfer that falls within TUPE, if so what plans are there for consultation? At what point will it be certain that Otium are to buy CCFC H, in other words am I being asked to transfer before the League have approved the sale? And may I have a copy of my contract of employment, please?

I'm not implying there's a stitch up in place, I'd do this regardless if I had any doubts.

 

[wingy]

Otium already own Holdings - have done since April 2011

How so Crowsnest ,there have been no books no activity and recently acquired two new directors?

 

[Manchester_sky_blue]

Right lets clear a few things up seeing as employment law is my area of expertise.

TUPE only applies when a position (ie a job, post, body of work, whatever you want to call it) transfers directly from one company to another with no change to that job role.

So if employee X is employed as a cleaner with CCFC ltd and that company is going to be taken over and completely absorbed into CCFC holidings then holdings becomes the employer and employee X would have to tupe from CCFC ltd to Holdings.

Everyone with me so far.

If, as we are led to believe, Otium are the new owners of CCFC ltd which is to remain a separate entity then all employees of CCFC ltd (if indeed there are any) remain employees of Ltd and nothing has changed so far as the law is concerned and TUPE does not apply.

Regardless of who owns what or who owns who in this whole mess there should be no TUPE of staff to Otium currently as both CCFC ltd and CCFC holdings still exist. If they were to be bought together later on as a subsidiary of Otium then TUPE may apply but not before.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

How so Crowsnest ,there have been no books no activity and recently acquired two new directors?

Backdated no thats silly. Sorry you didnt get our letter Companies House It was sent honest and we phoned yes I have the name of the person we spoke to a C.Leaner yes nice lady said her title was The

 

[Warwickhunt]

Surely, if as Fisher has stated, all staff are employed by Holdings, why do the staff need to be transferred over?

The GS will be issued to Otium from the Football League one would imagine as they are the ones who's bid was accepted

 

[duffer]

Right lets clear a few things up seeing as employment law is my area of expertise.

TUPE only applies when a position (ie a job, post, body of work, whatever you want to call it) transfers directly from one company to another with no change to that job role.

So if employee X is employed as a cleaner with CCFC ltd and that company is going to be taken over and completely absorbed into CCFC holidings then holdings becomes the employer and employee X would have to tupe from CCFC ltd to Holdings.

Everyone with me so far.

If, as we are led to believe, Otium are the new owners of CCFC ltd which is to remain a separate entity then all employees of CCFC ltd (if indeed there are any) remain employees of Ltd and nothing has changed so far as the law is concerned and TUPE does not apply.

Regardless of who owns what or who owns who in this whole mess there should be no TUPE of staff to Otium currently as both CCFC ltd and CCFC holdings still exist. If they were to be bought together later on as a subsidiary of Otium then TUPE may apply but not before.

Always good to have a lawyer on board, but isn't this exactly what Fisher is talking about in his letter? A transfer from Holdings to Otium.

"The purpose of this letter is to let you know that it is accordingly intended that your contract of employment will transfer to Otium, which is the immediate parent company of CCH. In the case of playing staff registered with the Football league and the FA, it is proposed thatt the transfer of employment will follow
approval by the Football Leagueand the FA. In all cases, your terms and conditions will be unchanged and this transfer will be seen as continuous for the purposes of employment legislation and will not be seen as a break in your period of employment."

 

[Manchester_sky_blue]

Always good to have a lawyer on board, but isn't this exactly what Fisher is talking about in his letter? A transfer from Holdings to Otium.

"The purpose of this letter is to let you know that it is accordingly intended that your contract of employment will transfer to Otium, which is the immediate parent company of CCH. In the case of playing staff registered with the Football league and the FA, it is proposed thatt the transfer of employment will follow
approval by the Football Leagueand the FA. In all cases, your terms and conditions will be unchanged and this transfer will be seen as continuous for the purposes of employment legislation and will not be seen as a break in your period of employment."

Ah right, i thought we were talking about a transfer of staff from CCFC ltd to Otium, not Holdings to Otium.

That said, TUPE still does not apply as if Holdings is a wholly owned subsidiary of Otium as they seem to be implying then nothing has changed and the status quo is maintained. The only practical application of transferring contracts of employment from a subsidiary to the parent company would be if they intend to liquidate or dissolve the subsidiary.

Such a move would be a transfer of undertakings rather than a TUPE.

TUPE incidentally only protects you for one day, on the second day of your employment with the firm you TUPE in to your legal standing completely dissolves.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Of course they're going to liquidate CCFC Ltd if they're given the chance, always been on the cards.. they want to break the stadium rental contract with ACL.

 

[Manchester_sky_blue]

Of course they're going to liquidate CCFC Ltd if they're given the chance, always been on the cards.. they want to break the stadium rental contract with ACL.

That wont be an issue, ACL as a creditor of CCFC ltd will just get a percentage of whatever Otium paid for ltd as full settlement of their debt.

 

[wingy]

Ah right, i thought we were talking about a transfer of staff from CCFC ltd to Otium, not Holdings to Otium.

That said, TUPE still does not apply as if Holdings is a wholly owned subsidiary of Otium as they seem to be implying then nothing has changed and the status quo is maintained. The only practical application of transferring contracts of employment from a subsidiary to the parent company would be if they intend to liquidate or dissolve the subsidiary.

Such a move would be a transfer of undertakings rather than a TUPE.

TUPE incidentally only protects you for one day, on the second day of your employment with the firm you TUPE in to your legal standing completely dissolves.

Then wouldn't have all employees been advised when Otium was introduced??I thought otium were just a dormant part of the group not Controlling?