I talked to B.C.F.A re. phoenix club. (6 Viewers)

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mark82

mark82

Super Moderator
Nick said:
Do you think ccfc would fall as far a Sunday league on pitch 3 at nico?
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Haha. Maybe. Obviously in reality they wouldn't drop all the way down the pyramid unless they were liquidated. The question was about gauging at what level the poster would stop supporting CCFC as they were relegated through the levels. His post shows this is an important factor for him.
 
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SkyBlueSwiss

New Member
Nick said:
Do you think ccfc would fall as far a Sunday league on pitch 3 at nico?
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I genuinely believe that if things do not change, the club that leaves Coventry under SISU ownership will be a non-league club in just three to four years from now.
 
saltaire bantam

saltaire bantam

Well-Known Member
I don't believe you would be 9 divisions below FL, because Coventry would be a special case, rules would have to be bent and common sense would prevail. You can't have 2000 fans turning up at grounds used to crowds of 80 ish. I would imagine a new club (dependent on ST sales) would be parachuted in, further up the pyramid, but having to pay a % of income for a period to clubs below that it should have competed with, everybody's a winner!
 
CCFC_GT

CCFC_GT

New Member
SkyBlue_Taylor said:
So you think CCFC will relocate permanently? That's funny. I don't think the FL will let it happen, they just can't. and we're only 'temporarily moving for 3 years'.

You do know the FL will only ratify a ground share in Northampton if there is evidence that we will return to Coventry, to prevent a repeat of Wimbledon/MK Dons scenario.
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I don't trust the FL to do what is right or follow their rule book, and I am seriously worried that we might waste 3 to 5 years hanging on to the hope that CCFC will return to the Cov area, which might never happen. SISU might even have a hidden agenda to develop their franchise in Northampton long term. In the meantime a phoenix club would at least give some CCFC fans an alternative on Saturdays and couldn't do any harm. In 3 to 5 years both clubs could be at or around the same level anyway. Agree with others we don't need 2 or 3 phoenix clubs though, just one with a CCFC focus.
 
Otis

Otis

Well-Known Member
I think the FL will say 3 years and then when the 3 years are up and no ground is ready they will merely extend the deadline and do so ad infinitum.

There'll be the usual excuses and special dispensation will be allowed.

My estimation is that it will be 5 years at least.
 
CCFC_GT

CCFC_GT

New Member
Having slept on this, people are right in saying that we the supporters are the football club, and I would support the creation of a phoenix club created solely for the purpose of being the new CCFC. Before anyone suggests otherwise, this doesn't have to split the fans and we should all accept how each of us chooses to follow our club without pointless bickering. Nor should this mean that we give up hope or stop fighting to get the legal entity of our original club back from SISU/Northampton because that is what we all want. It is just that we may never succeed in getting this and plan B should start now rather than in 3 to 5 years time. Should we at some stage get the legal entity of CCFC back we all know that is where we the supporters who are the club will pledge our support, and the need for the phoenix club disappears and it can be disbanded or swallowed up by CCFC.

Adopting Sphinx or following the new club the local businessmen have recently been promoting just wouldn't cut it for me, because to gain my support the sole and clear purpose of the phoenix club from the beginning should be a continuation of the heart and soul of CCFC by us the fans.

To this end I would also suggest that it would be in the wider interests of CCC/ACL (both in terms of the image of the city and longer term investment) to support this venture by making the Ricoh available to the phoenix club without charge as it's home right from the start in the Midland Combination, with revenues all going to the football club to enable investment to give it the greatest chance of year on year promotions. Yes we would be rattling around in a huge stadium but at least it would feel like home and it would encourage support. Better still if PH4 buys a stake in the Ricoh and invests in the phoenix club rather than loading debt onto it.

The club colours would be sky blue and we would all sing all the traditional sky blues songs. It just gives us another option rather than waiting to see what happens at some point years ahead.

Appreciate thoughts either way on this.
 
Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
Nah screw them. Sisu can get lost its our club!! Without us they will not own anything!! Not willing to give up without a fight!! We need to educate, aggravate and eliminate
 
CCFC_GT

CCFC_GT

New Member
Sky Blue Pete said:
Nah screw them. Sisu can get lost its our club!! Without us they will not own anything!! Not willing to give up without a fight!! We need to educate, aggravate and eliminate
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Pete I agree with you that we should not give up without a fight.
But having a plan B is not giving up.
 
saltaire bantam

saltaire bantam

Well-Known Member
But a phoenix club is your only available weapon. Withdrawing support is one thing, that support going elsewhere, is entirely different.

A phoenix club accepted into a league now and supported (financial pledges) by a good number would mean the whole balance of power shifted immediately.
 
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Spionkop

New Member
And look what a Phoenix Club would do to the Sisu version. Destroy it. They'd have to give up then? GT's idea of once we get our original loved club back we can absorb the phoenix and move on - sounds good to me. I think, if we do actually start at Sixfields, that'll be the point at which an idea like this will take off.
& what Saltaire said about the balance of power shifting also makes big sense.
 
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RogerH

New Member
I wonder whether a phoenix club would be supported by PH4, Hoffman and Elliott. If so, why not play at the Ricoh with sensible ticket prices and a properly run club.
PH4 could then proceed with his development plans, and possibly be in on the start of something big.
This would also end any hopes SISU might have of acquiring the Ricoh, which many think is their ultimate target.
What about Coventry Singers 1883 as a name to give a link to the birth of the club, and stake a claim, like AFC Wiimbledon have done to the club history ?
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
RogerH said:
I wonder whether a phoenix club would be supported by PH4, Hoffman and Elliott. If so, why not play at the Ricoh with sensible ticket prices and a properly run club.
PH4 could then proceed with his development plans, and possibly be in on the start of something big.
This would also end any hopes SISU might have of acquiring the Ricoh, which many think is their ultimate target.
What about Coventry Singers 1883 as a name to give a link to the birth of the club, and stake a claim, like AFC Wiimbledon have done to the club history ?
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A midlands combination division 2 team playing at the Ricoh paying £400k rent plus £10k match fees?
 
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RogerH

New Member
stupot07 said:
A midlands combination division 2 team playing at the Ricoh paying £400k rent plus £10k match fees?
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Supported by PH4, the money you quote would be small change. However, I would expect PH4 to buy into ACL, in which case the deal would be different.

A couple of promotions would see the crowds increase, whilst the SISU club will only decline, unless SISU change their ways.
 
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Gary.j

New Member
PH4 buying into a Phoenix club takes control away from the supporters, which is the very reason to start a Phoenix; control over the future of the club! Any non-CCFC supporter investing in the club is going to want profit, that's the nature of business; profit! Is PH4 a cov fan?
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
RogerH said:
Supported by PH4, the money you quote would be small change. However, I would expect PH4 to buy into ACL, in which case the deal would be different.

A couple of promotions would see the crowds increase, whilst the SISU club will only decline, unless SISU change their ways.
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Yep small change for PH4, most probably invested as loans into the club building more debt. We'd hold the record for the biggest debt ever in the midland combination div 2.
 
CCFC_GT

CCFC_GT

New Member
stupot07 said:
A midlands combination division 2 team playing at the Ricoh paying £400k rent plus £10k match fees?
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Stu, you may have missed the suggestion I made on page 5:-

To this end I would also suggest that it would be in the wider interests of CCC/ACL (both in terms of the image of the city and longer term investment) to support this venture by making the Ricoh available to the phoenix club without charge as it's home right from the start in the Midland Combination, with revenues all going to the football club to enable investment to give it the greatest chance of year on year promotions.
 
CCFC_GT

CCFC_GT

New Member
Gary.j said:
PH4 buying into a Phoenix club takes control away from the supporters, which is the very reason to start a Phoenix; control over the future of the club! Any non-CCFC supporter investing in the club is going to want profit, that's the nature of business; profit! Is PH4 a cov fan?
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You have a point but what if the terms of buying into the Ricoh include making an initial non-controlling investment into the football club. Again I would say that it is in the long term interests of CCC/ACL to have a successful football club in the city, and so they should support such a term.

The other point I would make is that unless we have very wealthy philanthropic fans (which we don't appear to have), at some stage in the development and progress of the phoenix club we will need outside investment of some sort from somewhere.
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
CCFC_GT said:
Stu, you may have missed the suggestion I made on page 5:-

To this end I would also suggest that it would be in the wider interests of CCC/ACL (both in terms of the image of the city and longer term investment) to support this venture by making the Ricoh available to the phoenix club without charge as it's home right from the start in the Midland Combination, with revenues all going to the football club to enable investment to give it the greatest chance of year on year promotions.
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If they can afford to give it to Phoenix for free, couldn't they have offered lower than £400k to ccfc?

And even if rent free, what about utilities, cleaning, stewarding, pitch maintenance, etc?
 
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Gary.j

New Member
We certainly need to talk to CCC/ACL, and i agree we would need to look at ways to bring revenue in but, without letting too much of it go out.
 
mark82

mark82

Super Moderator
stupot07 said:
And even if rent free, what about utilities, cleaning, stewarding, pitch maintenance, etc?
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They are doing that anyway. Not saying that no rent is realistic but if they have no football team a sensible compromise may be required. Why not make use of it?
 
R

RogerH

New Member
CCFC_GT said:
You have a point but what if the terms of buying into the Ricoh include making an initial non-controlling investment into the football club. Again I would say that it is in the long term interests of CCC/ACL to have a successful football club in the city, and so they should support such a term.

The other point I would make is that unless we have very wealthy philanthropic fans (which we don't appear to have), at some stage in the development and progress of the phoenix club we will need outside investment of some sort from somewhere.
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Agreed, it depends what you want the Phoenix club to be. If you want it to progress through the leagues, there will, as you say, have to be some outside investment. I think PH4's interest from a money making point is the surrounding land, that does not have to create debt for the football club. If you have people in charge of the football club who care about the club, you will avoid the situation we find ourselves in. The new Coventry United has investment from local businessmen who are disillusioned CCFC fans.

Remember, PH4 has said that he favours supporter involvement.
 
CCFC_GT

CCFC_GT

New Member
stupot07 said:
If they can afford to give it to Phoenix for free, couldn't they have offered lower than £400k to ccfc?

And even if rent free, what about utilities, etc?
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I think the difference now is there doesn't appear to be any other option for regular use of the Ricoh stadium that can have the future potential of a phoenix CCFC, unless of course we can get the original CCFC back.

So unless the FL decides SISU is not fit & proper, or something gives between SISU and ACL, what have CCC/ACL to lose by agreeing to make the phoenix club at the Ricoh a viable possibility during it's early development until it can afford to contribute to costs whilst still having access to revenues.
 
CCFC_GT

CCFC_GT

New Member
RogerH said:
Agreed, it depends what you want the Phoenix club to be. If you want it to progress through the leagues, there will, as you say, have to be some outside investment. I think PH4's interest from a money making point is the surrounding land, that does not have to create debt for the football club. If you have people in charge of the football club who care about the club, you will avoid the situation we find ourselves in. The new Coventry United has investment from local businessmen who are disillusioned CCFC fans.

Remember, PH4 has said that he favours supporter involvement.
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I agree with you on nearly all of that, particularly on the supporter involvement aspect which has to be a key feature. The only issue I have is on the origins of the phoenix club as I said earlier:-

Adopting Sphinx or following the new club the local businessmen have recently been promoting just wouldn't cut it for me, because to gain my support the sole and clear purpose of the phoenix club from the beginning should be a continuation of the heart and soul of CCFC by us the fans.

This means for me that the phoenix club should be just like a continuation of CCFC playing at the Ricoh wearing sky blue kit and singing sky blue songs with the full and clear intention of becoming the new CCFC if we can't get the old one back.
 
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stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
mark82 said:
They did. They offered it for free while in admin.
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Yes that how it seemed, but they only offered it to ltd who have no players, coaching staff, etc. apparently Appleton's legal team told ACLs on the 12 June, yet ACL have co tinted to peddle the free offer...

And it was a free offer pending £10k per match fees.

Mr Appleton said: “The offer made by ACL to allow the club to play at the Ricoh was dependent on Coventry City FC Limited remaining in administration. That is obviously still the case.

“However, as I’ve stated on many occasions, including my press release last Thursday following the completion of the sale of the Company’s assets, Holdings employs the players.

“There are insufficient assets in Limited to employ either a team of players, associated coaching staff or commercial operations to take up this offer. I’m somewhat surprised to hear ACL claim they have heard nothing from me on this matter given their solicitor was fully briefed on the reasons behind the decision not to take
up their offer by my legal team on June 12.

“A CVA document is a document designed to inform creditors of how they will be paid in a full and final settlement. There is no necessity to outline any other details.”
 
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B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
stupot07 said:
Yes that how it seemed, but they only offered it to ltd who have no players, coaching staff, etc. apparently Appleton's legal team told ACLs on the 12 June, yet ACL have co tinted to peddle the free offer...

And it was a free offer pending £10k per match fees.

Mr Appleton said: “The offer made by ACL to allow the club to play at the Ricoh was dependent on Coventry City FC Limited remaining in administration. That is obviously still the case.

“However, as I’ve stated on many occasions, including my press release last Thursday following the completion of the sale of the Company’s assets, Holdings employs the players.

“There are insufficient assets in Limited to employ either a team of players, associated coaching staff or commercial operations to take up this offer. I’m somewhat surprised to hear ACL claim they have heard nothing from me on this matter given their solicitor was fully briefed on the reasons behind the decision not to take
up their offer by my legal team on June 12.

“A CVA document is a document designed to inform creditors of how they will be paid in a full and final settlement. There is no necessity to outline any other details.”
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Stu, you do realise that every single club in England pays match fees?
 
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shy_tall_knight

Well-Known Member
I think the name Coventry Phoenix is apt, the city has a link to the concept of a phoenix having risen from the ashes following the blitz of 1940. Play in sky blue sing the old songs, moving to Northampton is going to kill the club. As long as SISU can break -even they will hang onto ccfc untill someone pays over the odds for it or they get the Ricoh cheap.
 
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SonOfSnoz

New Member
Why would Ph5 fund a new team when he doesn't even originate from Coventry?
He is in it for the Ricoh! He wants what CCFC have.
Otherwise he would fund a new club in his native lands!
CCFC is owned by Sisu. Phoneix team won't be & therefore is not the same, you can't just buy the history & 87 cup win!
To buy CCFC, only way is from Sisu!
 
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