I talked to B.C.F.A re. phoenix club. (5 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes of course, I'm questioning phoenix's ability to pay them, even if ACL offer them rent fee. Yes it wouldn't be £10k but it would still be substantial.

Ah you were talking about Phoenix. My big issue is that suppose we start such a club and then SISU sell the 'old' club who move back to the Ricoh and enjoy some success. What then?

 

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[Gary.j]

ACF Wimbledon, MK Dons, which one is the real Wimbledon?

 

[stupot07]

Ah you were talking about Phoenix. My big issue is that suppose we start such a club and then SISU sell the 'old' club who move back to the Ricoh and enjoy some success. What then?

Exactly why I can't get behind the idea.

 

[stupot07]

ACF Wimbledon, MK Dons, which one is the real Wimbledon?

The mk dons move was always a permanent move and refranchising.....ours is (supposedly) a temporary move. That is a big difference in circumstances.

 

[Gary.j]

If Phoenix are resident at the Ricoh, how would "old" club get back in there?

 

[stupot07]

If Phoenix are resident at the Ricoh, how would "old" club get back in there?

So you are proposing to set up Phoenix, make them tenants of the Ricoh and prevent the real ccfc from ever returning?

 

[Gary.j]

I'm proposing that the fans are the real ccfc, whoever they choose to support.

 

[mark82]

Agreed, it depends what you want the Phoenix club to be. If you want it to progress through the leagues, there will, as you say, have to be some outside investment. I think PH4's interest from a money making point is the surrounding land, that does not have to create debt for the football club. If you have people in charge of the football club who care about the club, you will avoid the situation we find ourselves in. The new Coventry United has investment from local businessmen who are disillusioned CCFC fans.

Remember, PH4 has said that he favours supporter involvement.

51% fan ownership 49% whoever else.

 

[mark82]

Yes of course, I'm questioning phoenix's ability to pay them, even if ACL offer them rent fee. Yes it wouldn't be £10k but it would still be substantial.

I may agree with you. Any Phoenix club may be better at the Butts unless ACL/Council offered the Ricoh for next to nothing inc rates.

 

[mark82]

Why would Ph5 fund a new team when he doesn't even originate from Coventry?
He is in it for the Ricoh! He wants what CCFC have.
Otherwise he would fund a new club in his native lands!
CCFC is owned by Sisu. Phoneix team won't be & therefore is not the same, you can't just buy the history & 87 cup win!
To buy CCFC, only way is from Sisu!

History is with the fans pal, not SISU. Don't care what anyone says CCFC is about the fans and goes wherever the fans go.

 

[SonOfSnoz]

CCFC is currently set for Northampton. If that club ends, only then can a new club be a replacement.
It would only be a replacement, not the real CCFC. As that would have liquidated! The history would stay with CCFC 1883.

 

[mark82]

Ah you were talking about Phoenix. My big issue is that suppose we start such a club and then SISU sell the 'old' club who move back to the Ricoh and enjoy some success. What then?

Me, personally, I would go back to old CCFC as main club (ie watch most often) Phoenix as second team. If the Phoenix club serves only to make SISU bring the club back to Coventry or sell to someone that will it will have served its purpose.

 

[mark82]

Re-born? We not even dead yet.

See your point but they are to a lot of people. A club from Northampton just doesn't represent me.

 

[mark82]

I think the name Coventry Phoenix is apt, the city has a link to the concept of a phoenix having risen from the ashes following the blitz of 1940. Play in sky blue sing the old songs, moving to Northampton is going to kill the club. As long as SISU can break -even they will hang onto ccfc untill someone pays over the odds for it or they get the Ricoh cheap.

That names already taken I believe.

 

[mark82]

CCFC is currently set for Northampton. If that club ends, only then can a new club be a replacement.
It would only be a replacement, not the real CCFC. As that would have liquidated! The history would stay with CCFC 1883.

Actually the trust have rights to that in the event of liquidation.

 

[CCFC_GT]

Ah you were talking about Phoenix. My big issue is that suppose we start such a club and then SISU sell the 'old' club who move back to the Ricoh and enjoy some success. What then?

As I posted earlier:-

Having slept on this, people are right in saying that we the supporters are the football club, and I would support the creation of a phoenix club created solely for the purpose of being the new CCFC. Before anyone suggests otherwise, this doesn't have to split the fans and we should all accept how each of us chooses to follow our club without pointless bickering. Nor should this mean that we give up hope or stop fighting to get the legal entity of our original club back from SISU/Northampton because that is what we all want. It is just that we may never succeed in getting this and plan B should start now rather than in 3 to 5 years time. Should we at some stage get the legal entity of CCFC back we all know that is where we the supporters who are the club will pledge our support, and the need for the phoenix club disappears and it can be disbanded or swallowed up by CCFC.

 

[mark82]

Me, personally, I would go back to old CCFC as main club (ie watch most often) Phoenix as second team. If the Phoenix club serves only to make SISU bring the club back to Coventry or sell to someone that will it will have served its purpose.

Basically take from it what you like. Everyone here is a CCFC fan and if they were still in Cov representing us there wouldn't even be talk of it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Me, personally, I would go back to old CCFC as main club (ie watch most often) Phoenix as second team. If the Phoenix club serves only to make SISU bring the club back to Coventry or sell to someone that will it will have served its purpose.

Phoenix is relying on being a purely fan owned enterprise, at least initially. If CCFC is restored to benevolent and competent owners then Phoenix becomes redundant and those who put in the money will lose out.

In my view a Phoenix club should be just that-something formed from the ashes of the previous entity.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

As I posted earlier:-

Having slept on this, people are right in saying that we the supporters are the football club, and I would support the creation of a phoenix club created solely for the purpose of being the new CCFC. Before anyone suggests otherwise, this doesn't have to split the fans and we should all accept how each of us chooses to follow our club without pointless bickering. Nor should this mean that we give up hope or stop fighting to get the legal entity of our original club back from SISU/Northampton because that is what we all want. It is just that we may never succeed in getting this and plan B should start now rather than in 3 to 5 years time. Should we at some stage get the legal entity of CCFC back we all know that is where we the supporters who are the club will pledge our support, and the need for the phoenix club disappears and it can be disbanded or swallowed up by CCFC.

This assumes that the original club is lost forever-it isn't. You talk about it being disbanded if CCFC have sanity restored; how can this be explained to those who have funded the 'Phoenix' which technically isn't one until the current club dies.

 

[SonOfSnoz]

Actually the trust have rights to that in the event of liquidation.

So if CCFC liquidate as a club, SBT get ownership of the remains? Where's my quid?

 

[mark82]

Phoenix is relying on being a purely fan owned enterprise, at least initially. If CCFC is restored to benevolent and competent owners then Phoenix becomes redundant and those who put in the money will lose out.

In my view a Phoenix club should be just that-something formed from the ashes of the previous entity.

How much money do you think people need to put in? FC United fans pay £12 a year.

 

[mark82]

So if CCFC liquidate as a club, SBT get ownership of the remains? Where's my quid?

I believe they get rights to the name and history. Not sure what else would be in there. Someone from the trust board could tell you. Surely this is a good thing though?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

How much money do you think people need to put in? FC United fans pay £12 a year.

How much does it take to fund a club to the level of say Leamington?

 

[mark82]

This assumes that the original club is lost forever-it isn't. You talk about it being disbanded if CCFC have sanity restored; how can this be explained to those who have funded the 'Phoenix' which technically isn't one until the current club dies.

Thought you had been to University? Not being funny but its not a brand new concept. Do a bit of research around clubs like FC United and AFC Liverpool. I personally don't like the term Phoenix club as its misleading but it's what others understand. Technically I guess it would be breakaway rather than Phoenix.

 

[mark82]

How much does it take to fund a club to the level of say Leamington?

A lot of Leamingtons funding above their income is from donations and fans putting in a bit of time at the club together. Obviously couldn't tell you how much as they are a private company. FC united until this season were at the same level and would likely share details fairly freely on how much it costs.

 

[stupot07]

How much money do you think people need to put in? FC United fans pay £12 a year.

FC United don't even play in Manchester, they play 18 miles away from Old Trafford in Bury.

 

[stupot07]

How much does it take to fund a club to the level of say Leamington?

Well nuneaton and atherstone have been liquidated in the last 10 years, nuneaton may well go under so it's not cheap.

 

[mark82]

FC United don't even play in Manchester, they play 18 miles away from Old Trafford in Bury.

What has that got to do with anything? Genuine question, I don't see the relevance of that statement.

 

[mark82]

Well nuneaton and atherstone have been liquidated in the last 10 years, nuneaton may well go under so it's not cheap.

Nuneaton & Atherstones situations were caused by private backers not being able to fund the clubs.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Thought you had been to University? Not being funny but its not a brand new concept. Do a bit of research around clubs like FC United and AFC Liverpool. I personally don't like the term Phoenix club as its misleading but it's what others understand. Technically I guess it would be breakaway rather than Phoenix.

Yep, got a first class Masters in chemistry. Back to the discussion though-I just think people are treating the club as a complete lost cause when it's not and is still worth fighting to rescue. The moment SISU leave the club has no purpose.

 

[stupot07]

What has that got to do with anything? Genuine question, I don't see the relevance of that statement.

To be honest it has nothing to do with it, just a thought that popped into my head.

Some are talking about setting up Phoenix while ccfc still exists because being moved out of city, citing FC united as an example and it just dawned on me that they don't play Manchester (yes greater Manchester but that's the equivalent of the West Midlands.)

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

A lot of Leamingtons funding above their income is from donations and fans putting in a bit of time at the club together. Obviously couldn't tell you how much as they are a private company. FC united until this season were at the same level and would likely share details fairly freely on how much it costs.

So safe to say it requires a financial commitment from a fair number of people.

 

[stupot07]

Nuneaton & Atherstones situations were caused by private backers not being able to fund the clubs.

Yep, I know but just an example of how much it still costs to run a decent non-league club.

 

[stupot07]

Yep, got a first class Masters in chemistry. Back to the discussion though-I just think people are treating the club as a complete lost cause when it's not and is still worth fighting to rescue. The moment SISU leave the club has no purpose.

Completely agree Brighton. Where did you study?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Completely agree Brighton. Where did you study?

St Andrews-just graduated last week!