Andy Thorn's views on King saga (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter CovScott88
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CovScott88
New Member
Agreed mate. Big Ben will knock him into Row Z!!
Sky Blue Sheepy
New Member
Well I must admit I'm more liable to trust the board + Thorn on this 1. Good riddance to (unfortunately quite good) rubbish... :jerkit:
Is funny though that King says that it was his advisor that told him the club sent no documents. Maybe I'm looking at that too conspiritorially (that's not a real word, I know) but it seems to me like the agent may have slightly warped the truth to get King this Brum deal...
Is funny though that King says that it was his advisor that told him the club sent no documents. Maybe I'm looking at that too conspiritorially (that's not a real word, I know) but it seems to me like the agent may have slightly warped the truth to get King this Brum deal...
albatross
Well-Known Member
I really feel for Andy Thorn here, he has a really difficult job and has just received a setback on the playing and PR fronts.
in effect
Our manager managed to convince a highly rated championship player to sign... Our experienced business administrators then failed to follow up in writing either a summary of their agreement or forward to his agent a copy of the revised offer. This is not how business is done. You make the offer and close the deal immediately.
None of us would commit to a new job without seeing the offer in writing. If in the meantime somebody presents a better offer in terms of money and prospects in writing, does that not show that they really want you and are prepared to get what they want I order to succeed.
How come Birmingham City managed to conduct business with Mr King and his representatives whilst he was on holiday? Are the clubs finances so limited that they do not have access to mobile phones or Broadband services?
Football is now a big money business, so much so that we are $40m in a hole. So to announce that you had only reached a verbal agreement with your prized asset and to further outline that that there would be a window of opportunity for other interested parties to put offers on the table is at best Negligent , and at worst a cynical way of stringing us along whilst the club balanced the books.
The interim statements of “we have done all we can” cut no ice, we were child like and hustled out of it by a more worldly wise and hungry enterprise. This has always been the way going back even to the Chris Marsden / Sandy Robertson Fiasco.
I think all we can do is view this as an opportunity for Andy thorn to go and get us a crop of players like, Jordan Henderson , Andy Carroll, Aron Gunnarsson , Scott Dann, Ben Turner, and Danny Fox ie the type that he has identified before. He seems to be able to get so much more out of a group of players than our previous managers. I don’t want any high profile signings, too often they disappoint.
All of our high profile signings thus far have not even got us to mid table comfort! So let’s start again
I want a team of good young players that want to play for CCFC and each other. Having seen the transformation from a group of individuals into a functioning team that wanted to play, even if they were moving on I think he might just surprise us with a few Jems!
in effect
Our manager managed to convince a highly rated championship player to sign... Our experienced business administrators then failed to follow up in writing either a summary of their agreement or forward to his agent a copy of the revised offer. This is not how business is done. You make the offer and close the deal immediately.
None of us would commit to a new job without seeing the offer in writing. If in the meantime somebody presents a better offer in terms of money and prospects in writing, does that not show that they really want you and are prepared to get what they want I order to succeed.
How come Birmingham City managed to conduct business with Mr King and his representatives whilst he was on holiday? Are the clubs finances so limited that they do not have access to mobile phones or Broadband services?
Football is now a big money business, so much so that we are $40m in a hole. So to announce that you had only reached a verbal agreement with your prized asset and to further outline that that there would be a window of opportunity for other interested parties to put offers on the table is at best Negligent , and at worst a cynical way of stringing us along whilst the club balanced the books.
The interim statements of “we have done all we can” cut no ice, we were child like and hustled out of it by a more worldly wise and hungry enterprise. This has always been the way going back even to the Chris Marsden / Sandy Robertson Fiasco.
I think all we can do is view this as an opportunity for Andy thorn to go and get us a crop of players like, Jordan Henderson , Andy Carroll, Aron Gunnarsson , Scott Dann, Ben Turner, and Danny Fox ie the type that he has identified before. He seems to be able to get so much more out of a group of players than our previous managers. I don’t want any high profile signings, too often they disappoint.
All of our high profile signings thus far have not even got us to mid table comfort! So let’s start again
I want a team of good young players that want to play for CCFC and each other. Having seen the transformation from a group of individuals into a functioning team that wanted to play, even if they were moving on I think he might just surprise us with a few Jems!
Walter Sobchak
New Member
Jesus - I can't get over the obsession with King on this board. It's business - I'd have done the same if I was King. Go for more money at a club with a better chance of promotion than us - while keeping a finger in the pie at Cov in case no better offer comes up.
He doesn't owe us anything - in fact it was his goals that probably kept us up in the end. If we didn't sign him straight out of prison, someone else would have done - it's not like we got him released or anything.
It was amateur hour from the club for announcing it as a done deal based on a phone call - surely they can't be that naive! Lets just take it as he gave us a good season - possibly saved us from league one and all move on. He was better than the average but certainly not the messiah.
He doesn't owe us anything - in fact it was his goals that probably kept us up in the end. If we didn't sign him straight out of prison, someone else would have done - it's not like we got him released or anything.
It was amateur hour from the club for announcing it as a done deal based on a phone call - surely they can't be that naive! Lets just take it as he gave us a good season - possibly saved us from league one and all move on. He was better than the average but certainly not the messiah.
D
Deleted member 162
Guest
He owes us for ressurecting his career as we were the only ones in this division looking to seriously take him on.
Aswell as untireing support for him when every other fan in the league and cup gave him abuse, including the dirty club he's now signed for.
Aswell as untireing support for him when every other fan in the league and cup gave him abuse, including the dirty club he's now signed for.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
If it's not financial reasons as we are supposed to offer similar, then what?
It can't be for footballing reasons as he was in a system suited to him and guaranteed the regular start that he may not get at Blues. Does he think they'll keep him if/when they get promoted?
He was welcomed, he was liked here, he was wanted by the board management and fans, he was settled, he was in the side, he was scoring, he was out of the limelight, his family were happy, he was made player of the season, tbh this stinks of something and I'm not sure what. I can't fathom what can have made him want to move for similar terms.
It can't be for footballing reasons as he was in a system suited to him and guaranteed the regular start that he may not get at Blues. Does he think they'll keep him if/when they get promoted?
He was welcomed, he was liked here, he was wanted by the board management and fans, he was settled, he was in the side, he was scoring, he was out of the limelight, his family were happy, he was made player of the season, tbh this stinks of something and I'm not sure what. I can't fathom what can have made him want to move for similar terms.
Walter Sobchak
New Member
What on earth does he owe us? He was contracted to play football for us for a year which he fulfilled - performing well.
rob9872 - Is any of that fact?
Does anyone outside of Blues / Marlon and his agent know the offer they have made? I still maintain that Thorn love-in aside they are still much more likely for promotion which is surely a key driver in any footballer's decision making when chosing a club - plus doesn't he even get a shot at Europe with the Blues?
rob9872
Well-Known Member
The fact is that verbal contracts are binding. The difficulty is proving taht you have a verbal contract, but if in his statement he is admitting to it (and I haven't seen it so don't know) then we have a case. Not sure if there is any mileage in doing so as we may have to pay high wages for him and his heart won't be in it (unless he can score a few if we tell him he's in the shop window so we can flog him).
Spence CCFC
New Member
I wish people would stop comparing it to 'normal business activities'. It wasn't that. He agreed to sign and all he had to do was sort it out when he came back from holiday. He got offered more money by Birmingham and opposed to admitting that he's said we didn't give him a contract. Of course Marlon whatever you say.
Walter Sobchak
New Member
Are your sky-blue tinted glasses grafted to your face? Unless you have some connection to the City there's a lot more reasons for a player to move than stay. Especially if they get a better deal out of it.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Yes they are grafted to my face although from what we're told there isn't much in the deal and there are plenty of reasons for him to stay as I listed earlier.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
* system suited to him
* pretty much guaranteed a regular start
* he was welcomed after his release from prison
* he was liked here
* he was wanted by the board management and fans
* he was settled
* he was in the side
* he was scoring
* he was out of the limelight
* his family were happy
* he was made player of the season
I think that's enough reasons to be going on with and I can't think of any reason other than genuine promotion contenders why he would switch to Blues. Our ground and facilities are better and he will have to start all over again.
* pretty much guaranteed a regular start
* he was welcomed after his release from prison
* he was liked here
* he was wanted by the board management and fans
* he was settled
* he was in the side
* he was scoring
* he was out of the limelight
* his family were happy
* he was made player of the season
I think that's enough reasons to be going on with and I can't think of any reason other than genuine promotion contenders why he would switch to Blues. Our ground and facilities are better and he will have to start all over again.
Walter Sobchak
New Member
He was welcomed, he was liked here, - He'll be accepted by the majority no matter where he goes if he plays well.
he was wanted by the board management and fans, - The board and management oviously want him there otherwise they wouldn't sign him.
he was settled, - If he was that cosy he wouldn't want to go elsewhere
he was in the side, he was scoring, he was out of the limelight, his family were happy, he was made player of the season, - Many footballers in the past have taken risks on breaking into the side based on confidence in their ability. Plus Birmingham to Cov is hardly the other side of the world - he probably wouldn't even have to move his family.
We obviously disagree on this so I won't go over the same points again. Out of interest though what are the financial figures you keep refering to? Would be interesting to know as I've not seen them anywhere. Salary, goal bonus, promotion bonus etc...?
jim20
Well-Known Member
I think it's a big shame we lost him, and the club should look at legal implications. Don't forget the agent probably wouldn't get any money from the deal with cov as he was already here, but the blues deal he would have got a signing on fee. So the agent probably had the contract sitting in his inbox and just didn't tell King as he was trying to get the blues deal.
I think it shows what has happened to football, no loyalty to a club which took on a no hoper out of prison. Hopefully we can move on quickly, and get someone as good who will score a good few goals.
I believe in Andy Thorn, we need to build though and take a risk on another top striker, as that is where we are lacking.
I think it shows what has happened to football, no loyalty to a club which took on a no hoper out of prison. Hopefully we can move on quickly, and get someone as good who will score a good few goals.
I believe in Andy Thorn, we need to build though and take a risk on another top striker, as that is where we are lacking.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
No idea, can only go on the stated facts the same as you. All I know is what Brody has said and that was that there wasn't much in the terms, we agreed to most of his demands and that we did offer him a 3 year deal. I'm not suggesting that Brody is 100% accurate but as a board member who is there to be shot at and after the comments from Thorn, I tend to believe that this is more likely to be true.
Walter Sobchak
New Member
I think facts are something that are missing from 99.9% of these arguments which is why I don't understand how people can get so hot under the collar based on speculation.
The Reverend Skyblue
Well-Known Member
My feelings on this saga are that we've learnt a hard lesson here and that this must never happen again.If a players contract is due and they want to keep him on, then do the deal there and then and not let the contract to expire or come close to finishing.
The majority of clubs announce well in advance that such and such player has been offered a new advance longer term contract ,to keep them here for another 2/3 years well in advance of it expiring,and perhaps if this was done to king then he would of stayed.
I have made this point before but the only way footballers feel loyalty to a club are if they've been there a long time,so lets concentrate on the younger/youth players,and treat them well and instill in them the pride they should feel wearing the skyblue of Cov.Go out of our way and treat them like they are the best thing since sliced bread ,put your arm around them and beef them up, and praise them when praise is due,and they will turn around and put in committed performances week in week out and this will turn into loyalty and love of the shirt.,and both sides, the club, and us the supporters, win.
King has gone, LONG LIVE THE KING.
The majority of clubs announce well in advance that such and such player has been offered a new advance longer term contract ,to keep them here for another 2/3 years well in advance of it expiring,and perhaps if this was done to king then he would of stayed.
I have made this point before but the only way footballers feel loyalty to a club are if they've been there a long time,so lets concentrate on the younger/youth players,and treat them well and instill in them the pride they should feel wearing the skyblue of Cov.Go out of our way and treat them like they are the best thing since sliced bread ,put your arm around them and beef them up, and praise them when praise is due,and they will turn around and put in committed performances week in week out and this will turn into loyalty and love of the shirt.,and both sides, the club, and us the supporters, win.
King has gone, LONG LIVE THE KING.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
gutted
reading both POV i think marlon wa shappy to sign 3 years with cov but when 3 years with money came along he was not willing to honour his agreement with cov
reading both POV i think marlon wa shappy to sign 3 years with cov but when 3 years with money came along he was not willing to honour his agreement with cov
Covstu
Well-Known Member
I think its an absolute farce, he verbally accepted and that is enough to gain his commitment or should have been. If the club withdrew the contract after verbally agreeing terms i am sure we could have been sitting in a tribunal with MK making a claim against the club.
There is obviously no honour in the man and yes he went for the better deal but we have done alot for him (mainly thanks to Aidy). Sadly i dont think w will be able to get a like for like player but time will tell. Really pissed off!
There is obviously no honour in the man and yes he went for the better deal but we have done alot for him (mainly thanks to Aidy). Sadly i dont think w will be able to get a like for like player but time will tell. Really pissed off!
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
Albatross and Walter you are both so wrong! Listen to the facts carefully and don't assume so much to suit your own take on it.
he owed us big time!
Brum also did not send him an agreement in writing!! He agreed verbally there also. he has today now signed a pre-contract for July 1st actual contract being drawn up.
Andy Thorn is a decent man and King simply by his actions (with cohort Finnigan) is not.
For Brum it's just business and for CCFC a slight sense of naivety but King shoulders the blame and responsibility here.
he owed us big time!
Brum also did not send him an agreement in writing!! He agreed verbally there also. he has today now signed a pre-contract for July 1st actual contract being drawn up.
Andy Thorn is a decent man and King simply by his actions (with cohort Finnigan) is not.
For Brum it's just business and for CCFC a slight sense of naivety but King shoulders the blame and responsibility here.
Il Pirata
Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Sheepy
New Member
Doubt a player cares who owns the ground. It's where they play though, and that ground is better than St Andrews 
cloughie
Well-Known Member
MK to brum is purely for more money. Brum a better footballing and promotion prospect i think not. with the possibility of 14 players leaving before the season starts(out of contract players, transfer targets Dann johnson etc and loan players leaving. Not to mention the manager has now gone. At least he will be guaranteed a place in the team. Yes he has ability but lacks credibility as a person. We can't believe his word on football issues then his pleading of his innocence regarding sex offences cannot be believed either.(Nor was it by a court) Sorry to lose his goals but not sorry to see a person of his character gone!
Doubt a player cares who owns the ground. It's where they play though, and that ground is better than St Andrews
Don't suppose he does, just correcting Robs previous use of the term "our ground"
I wonder if players prefer an old school ground full or a spanking new ground half empty in terms of motivation?
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
Don't suppose he does, just correcting Robs previous use of the term "our ground"
I wonder if players prefer an old school ground full or a spanking new ground half empty in terms of motivation?
It's gotta be a ground with Atmosphere. I'm sure they don't care if the place is half empty if there's a fab atmosphere.