A Deal Is Simple Really (14 Viewers)

[RoboCCFC90]

I havent got a problem with a competent business running the Ricoh but I (and I hope CCC) have a serious problem with letting an evidently incompetent business own and run it. Seriously how can you call for Sisu ownership with no reference to their record as a business, that is just plain daft.

I accept that however we don't have the perfect owner who can run the Arena, we have what we have and if the Council and ACL want to help CCFC to suceed as a Football Club, Community Asset and as business then they have to put personal feelings aside IMO.

 

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[Sky Blue Harry H]

By the way, fellow posters, is it me, or is this thread degenerating into a skirmish between pro and anti- SISU factions?

I for one, refuse to take sides and just want reasoned debate :blue::blue::blue::blue::blue::blue::blue::blue::blue::blue::blue::blue::blue::blue:

 

[covcity4life]

Invading a country and slaughtering millions of people is slightly different to putting anamosity aside for a company that is in essence trying to stabalise it's business.

its not to some fans though,thats just it

some fans hate sisu more than they love ccfc

and that is the saddest part of all this.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

Invading a country and slaughtering millions of people is slightly different to putting anamosity aside for a company that is in essence trying to stabalise it's business.

Fair point - though I might replace 'stabilise its business' for 'hostile takeover'

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

With any other owners, I would say yes we need to own our own ground. Six years on from the start of the SISU tenure, with no less than three seperate opportunities to buy the half share in the Ricoh, other than seeing debt piled into CCFC ltd. and(If SISU get their way) liquidate the club "Allegedly" I would say they can......"Fuck Off"

 

[RoboCCFC90]

When it's SISU and honestly or clarity of ambition, my prediction of future events based on past behaviour is more akin to predicting that the sun will rise in the morning as I've seen it do nothing else for 40-odd years on this planet.

And I'm sorry, you can't base your opinion on what's best for the club. What's going so damn well now then?

Not knowing where we'll be playing in a fortnight? Not having new kits until October? Stating another season in embargo in the third tier?

What's the reason to be so damn trusting of, and cheery about our owners, eh?

The sun rising in the morning is a fact and not an assumption as is the opinion of yours.

So I can't base my own opinion based on what I feel is beneficial to the Football Club I support?

Cheery? I am hardly going to throw a party for the Employee's of SISU. I don't have a high opinion of them this is fact, however based on my opinion I feel that any deal which would allow us to buy a stake into the Arena should be explored.

Although if you don't agree this you might be happy to continue slating the current owners for moving us to Northampton and out of our City..

 

[RPHunt]

So what would be a fair price for SISU to pay for the Ricoh, say £30m? About what it would cost to build their new stadium.

If SISU had that sort of money and were looking for commercial property to invest it in, they could expect a return of about 6%, i.e. about £1.8m per year. They would have to be pretty clueless to pass up that income potential in order to avoid paying £400k a year rent for the Ricoh.

It's blatantly obvious that SISU don't want a deal unless it involves them being given the Ricoh for free or at a knockdown price.

 

[Grendel]

So what would be a fair price for SISU to pay for the Ricoh, say £30m? About what it would cost to build their new stadium.

If SISU had that sort of money and were looking for commercial property to invest it in, they could expect a return of about 6%, i.e. about £1.8m per year. They would have to be pretty clueless to pass up that income potential in order to avoid paying £400k a year rent for the Ricoh.

It's blatantly obvious that SISU don't want a deal unless it involves them being given the Ricoh for free or at a knockdown price.

You seem to be suggesting as a Coventry city fan that you wouldn't want the stadium at a knockdown price. Why?

 

[RoboCCFC90]

its not to some fans though,thats just it

some fans hate sisu more than they love ccfc

and that is the saddest part of all this.

Exactly. If we were owned by a fan based consortioum then fine, but we're not this sport is a business and business is business.

I agree, I even wonder if some people who post on this foum are CCFC fans, Don't get me wrong happy to be told differently but remember pawns we are on a very large chess game and we're expendable.

 

[MusicDating]

its not to some fans though,thats just it

some fans hate sisu more than they love ccfc

and that is the saddest part of all this.

And some fans, like the abused partner, seem to want to stick with SISU despite the beatings and everyone telling them SISU are no good for them.

That's not to exclude ACL, who are like a lover claiming innocence; 'well it's not my fault SISU beats you up'...

Erm, of course you wont find anything like that on my dating site...:slap:

 

[Grendel]

It would be nice if SISU invested in the stadium complex like Compass did, then they can have a better deal.

What an odd thing for a person whose only interest is in the football club to say.

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Fair point - though I might replace 'stabilise its business' for 'hostile takeover'

Feel free, but if a hostile takeover is agreeing to sitting around a table with selected representatives then Die Hard films have been in vain all these years.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

You seem to be suggesting as a Coventry city fan that you wouldn't want the stadium at a knockdown price. Why?

I think that every fan would want this. But not with a track record like SISU's.

There's an opportunity for an owner to potentially buy into the Arena, harmonise incomes and build a football club on a stable financial footing. Of course, we all want that.

To turn your question; what gives you the belief that SISU are capable of delivering that?

 

[covcity4life]

And some fans, like the abused partner, seem to want to stick with SISU despite the beatings and everyone telling them SISU are no good for them.

That's not to exclude ACL, who are like a lover claiming innocence; 'well it's not my fault SISU beats you up'...

Erm, of course you wont find anything like that on my dating site...:slap:

 

[RoboCCFC90]

And some fans, like the abused partner, seem to want to stick with SISU despite the beatings and everyone telling them SISU are no good for them.

That's not to exclude ACL, who are like a lover claiming innocence; 'well it's not my fault SISU beats you up'...

Erm, of course you wont find anything like that on my dating site...:slap:

I'd be ahppy to wave Tim Fisher off at the earliest oppertunity however one question is there another option at this moment? See the answer is no unless we re-enter the bidding process or come out of Admin and someone makes SISU an offer that they are looking for.

 

[italiahorse]

You seem to be suggesting as a Coventry city fan that you wouldn't want the stadium at a knockdown price. Why?

No we are saying that because SISU want it at a knock down price there will be no deal. They need to be more realistic and ACL need to release it at what it has cost.
If ACL want to make a profit on it then that is also wrong and will also stand in the way of an agreement.

IMHO SISU want it at the price of an empty stadium with no club so they can sell it at the price of a stadium with a club.

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

its not to some fans though,thats just it

some fans hate sisu more than they love ccfc

and that is the saddest part of all this.

CC4life. It was a bit of(somewhat tasteless) tongue in cheek. Of course I love Cit more than I hate SISU. But I find it hard to accept what they have done to our club.
For me it comes down to this; SISU care about their business per se. They have not shown me that they care about our club. If they have to bleed us dry for the benefit of their overall business, that is what I believe they will do. I find that hard to like. I love City, I hate what (I believe) SISU are doing to us, and it is rather difficult to turn a blind eye

 

[RoboCCFC90]

I think that every fan would want this. But not with a track record like SISU's.

There's an opportunity for an owner to potentially buy into the Arena, harmonise incomes and build a football club on a stable financial footing. Of course, we all want that.

To turn your question; what gives you the belief that SISU are capable of delivering that?

So shall we continue into oblivion, playing our Football in Northampton with practically 50 followers every game and continue to blame SISU and there record or allow them to make amends and try to recover our once proud status?

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

Feel free, but if a hostile takeover is agreeing to sitting around a table with selected representatives then Die Hard films have been in vain all these years.

'The proof of the pudding......' hope you are right

 

[RoboCCFC90]

No we are saying that because SISU want it at a knock down price there will be no deal. They need to be more realistic and ACL need to release it at what it has cost.
If ACL want to make a profit on it then that is also wrong and will also stand in the way of an agreement.

IMHO SISU want it at the price of an empty stadium with no club so they can sell it at the price of a stadium with a club.

How much do you feel ACL should be looking for Italia out of curiousity?

 

[italiahorse]

And some fans, like the abused partner, seem to want to stick with SISU despite the beatings and everyone telling them SISU are no good for them.

That's not to exclude ACL, who are like a lover claiming innocence; 'well it's not my fault SISU beats you up'...

Erm, of course you wont find anything like that on my dating site...:slap:

The best plan now to get rid of SISU is ..............

SISU to bring the CCFC back to the RICOH
SISU to buy the stadium for CCFC. ACL to sell at cost.
The fans to support the team in great numbers and get back into the Championship.
SISU to sell CCFC with stadium.

Life's so easy.

 

[italiahorse]

How much do you feel ACL should be looking for Italia out of curiousity?

For the price it cost them.
We know how much they paid Higgs so that should be easy.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

So shall we continue into oblivion, playing our Football in Northampton with practically 50 followers every game and continue to blame SISU and there record or allow them to make amends and try to recover our once proud status?

Let me ask you another question; why are SISU back at the negotiating table now? On the face of it, they have an agreement at Northampton - with heavy penalty clauses for a break - and plans on the table for a brand new stadium that will deliver them all the revenues they say they need.

So, why? Fans pressure? The need for the CVA to be signed? Pressure from the FA/FL? Ministerial questions and interest?

 

[MusicDating]

I'd be ahppy to wave Tim Fisher off at the earliest oppertunity however one question is there another option at this moment? See the answer is no unless we re-enter the bidding process or come out of Admin and someone makes SISU an offer that they are looking for.

We don't really know if there's another option as SISU were able to dictate their chosen bidder status. I don't believe they'd simply liquidate us and swan off, as they have their investors to answer to, but I appreciate people don't want to take that gamble.

 

[covcity4life]

CC4life. It was a bit of(somewhat tasteless) tongue in cheek. Of course I love Cit more than I hate SISU. But I find it hard to accept what they have done to our club.
For me it comes down to this; SISU care about their business per se. They have not shown me that they care about our club. If they have to bleed us dry for the benefit of their overall business, that is what I believe they will do. I find that hard to like. I love City, I hate what (I believe) SISU are doing to us, and it is rather difficult to turn a blind eye

fair enough and i sympathise,but council dont care about the club either. why cant people see that both are scum?

 

[shy_tall_knight]

the SISU investment in CCFC has been a financial disaster. Surely they want out ASAP. Owning ACL or 50% of it is not their objective, its the freehold of th stadium to allow them to sell on. But they won't pay the market price.

there has been no positive development regarding these talks, SISU want something that the council own. I think the Cobblers venture is there to put pressure on the council / ACL to resolve this.

The council won't back down.

 

[italiahorse]

fair enough and i sympathise,but council dont care about the club either. why cant people see that both are scum?

Why don't the Council care about the club? I need to get my head round this. SISU will be gone in the future at some point, the Council will always be here, just like the fans.

 

[RPHunt]

Let me ask you another question; why are SISU back at the negotiating table now? On the face of it, they have an agreement at Northampton - with heavy penalty clauses for a break - and plans on the table for a brand new stadium that will deliver them all the revenues they say they need.

So, why? Fans pressure? The need for the CVA to be signed? Pressure from the FA/FL? Ministerial questions and interest?

Yes - it is a bit like dealing with kidnappers from the far side of Hell:

They have kidnapped our loved one and are holding it to ransom.
We know that if their demands are not met, they will kill our loved one - but they haven't come out and said it yet.
We know what their demands are - but they have not said as much.

So before any deal can be reached, SISU need to present their ransom demands.

 

[covcity4life]

Why don't the Council care about the club? I need to get my head round this. SISU will be gone in the future at some point, the Council will always be here, just like the fans.

because of the high rent? the reluctance to discuss selling the ricoh to clubs owners.

you think if we had whiter than white owners the council would give us our stadium back 100%? course not

they have hindered us too

 

[RoboCCFC90]

Let me ask you another question; why are SISU back at the negotiating table now? On the face of it, they have an agreement at Northampton - with heavy penalty clauses for a break - and plans on the table for a brand new stadium that will deliver them all the revenues they say they need.

So, why? Fans pressure? The need for the CVA to be signed? Pressure from the FA/FL? Ministerial questions and interest?

So you can't bring yourself to admit that CCFC under SISU ownership at the Ricoh Arena is better than playing in Northampton?

They could all be reasons as to why they're doing it, sure but there are so many other reasons as to why they could be looking for these negotiations which you haven't mentioned.

It strikes me MMM that you'll be one of these people who will never be happy unless you get perfection. It's not right to play at Northampton, it's not right to play in a SISU Built Arena, it's not right to buy a stake to ownership of the Ricoh Arena... Yet you continue to suggest every idea as a flaw, although you haven't given one suggestion to which SISU should be doing because you can't see past hatred for them..

 

[RoboCCFC90]

For the price it cost them.
We know how much they paid Higgs so that should be easy.

Well lets just say a figure in your personal opinion not based on what others have paid?

 

[Manchester_sky_blue]

Blinded by SISU Hate. To allow SISU purchase ownership of the Ricoh would mean the club will benefit greatly.

Once SISU get their hands on the Ricoh and unite it with the club we then, finally, become a salable asset. I believe that has been the game plan all along, get their hands on the Ricoh cheaply and then sell stadium and club on for a profit. I would personally support the sale of the stadium to them because it would be the fastest and simplest route to new owners.

 

[edgy]

The best plan now to get rid of SISU is ..............

SISU to bring the CCFC back to the RICOH
SISU to buy the stadium for CCFC. ACL to sell at cost.
The fans to support the team in great numbers and get back into the Championship.
SISU to sell CCFC with stadium.

Life's so easy.

That's the one!

 

[RoboCCFC90]

We don't really know if there's another option as SISU were able to dictate their chosen bidder status. I don't believe they'd simply liquidate us and swan off, as they have their investors to answer to, but I appreciate people don't want to take that gamble.

Did they though or was it because the Administrator found the best return for Creditors? Let's just say PH4 had been accepted as Preferred Bidder do you think he could have given a return to SISU anywhere near as to what they were owed?

 

[italiahorse]

the SISU investment in CCFC has been a financial disaster. Surely they want out ASAP. Owning ACL or 50% of it is not their objective, its the freehold of th stadium to allow them to sell on. But they won't pay the market price.

there has been no positive development regarding these talks, SISU want something that the council own. I think the Cobblers venture is there to put pressure on the council / ACL to resolve this.

The council won't back down.

If SISU have made an offer then this should be published. Once seen the fans will see who is at fault.

EXAMPLE
- If the council have put in £20M and Higgs have put in 10M then SISU should at least offer in principle £30M
- With CCFC there it may have a value of £40M but ACL should forgo the profit or at least split the difference with SISU settling at £35M.
- SISU might say that without the club it is only worth £15M
- If SISU have offered only £15M they are not taking into account future values which most business cases are based on.
- Based on above if they buy at £35M they can sell the stadium at its worth of £40M they will make £5M on the stadium.
- Packaged up with a Championship football team SISU will be at the top of the cycle and sell.
- If all the figures are published we can see what everybody is up too.