How much would it take for SISU to sell CCFC? (6 Viewers)

[Mr T - Sukka!]

Ok we heard Tim Fisher say the club is not for sale. But if a bid came in how much would it take for them to take note?

Im presuming you would be buying Ryton and the players and anything else they own.

Would they take £5 million?

Or would it be closer to £10 million?

Thoughts?

 

---

[cloughie]

Ok we heard Tim Fisher say the club is not for sale. But if a bid came in how much would it take for them to take note?

Im presuming you would be buying Ryton and the players and anything else they own.

Would they take £5 million?

Or would it be closer to £10 million?

Thoughts?

If they would take 5/10 million I think they would have been gone by now.

 

[Andyb47]

Knowing the way SISU work and how delusional they are they would probably be asking for £100 million

 

[simple_simon]

An interesting question, does not make any sense why they are staying, why not just take what they can and walk a the outlay will just keep getting bigger ad bigger.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

An interesting question, does not make any sense why they are staying, why not just take what they can and walk a the outlay will just keep getting bigger ad bigger.

Perhaps they have some exycess money

 

[Tonylinc]

They will stay till they get the Ricoh for free. I'm afraid that that is the bottom line! I hate the thought too but that is a fact. Having got the stadium they will sell the club and charge the new owners twice what they were obliged to pay!!!!

 

[georgehudson]

and that, is exactly what hedge funds do,
add to that a spiteful woman / outfit, & without audited accounts,
who knows what 'dream figure' they would come up with ?
one thing is for sure, it will not be for the benefit of Coventry City fans,
tho' p'haps Timmy might want to give it some gloss,
with JS's permission, of course, once we've cleared it with the FL /FA

 

[skybluesam66]

they bid 20m for limited (can tell this by the pence in the pound offer to creditors)
i imagine this is around their price at the minute

 

[Jack Griffin]

they bid 20m for limited (can tell this by the pence in the pound offer to creditors)
i imagine this is around their price at the minute

That was the amount of real money OSB reckoned SISU had put into CCFC.

 

[RFC]

Everyone has a price, including the protesters! It isn't the Ricoh because it's NEVER EVER FELT LIKE HOME TO ME!
Far too many different reasons being put forward and even if an agreement was reached to return ALL those who want to choose our owners would be starting yet another campaign, SISI OUT!
They're having a laugh IMHO!

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Everyone has a price, including the protesters! It isn't the Ricoh because it's NEVER EVER FELT LIKE HOME TO ME!
Far too many different reasons being put forward and even if an agreement was reached to return ALL those who want to choose our owners would be starting yet another campaign, SISI OUT!
They're having a laugh IMHO!

Is there a version of that that makes sense?

 

[idris65]

Is there a version of that that makes sense?

no, he always talks shite.

 

[idris65]

Everyone has a price, including the protesters! It isn't the Ricoh because it's NEVER EVER FELT LIKE HOME TO ME!
Far too many different reasons being put forward and even if an agreement was reached to return ALL those who want to choose our owners would be starting yet another campaign, SISI OUT!
They're having a laugh IMHO!

come on down Tim fisher.

 

[skyblue025]

Trouble is even is someone offers 20 mil the new owners would still have to take on the debt. How much is that? Shitsu wrote off 37mil if you believe reports during the Admin, but claimed debts of 70mil. If that's the case, new owners are still looking at a total package of 50-55 mil to break us even. No one is going to pay that for a D 1 club.

 

[skybluesam66]

skyblue0 nearly all the debt is to sisu
20million or so would buy the club and clear the debt

if hoffman or somebody else would have offered 21million say - that would have paid off the creditors at a pence in the pound level - including sisu
we would then be debt free (unless the new 21 million was invested as debt)

 

[SonOfSnoz]

Depends on how many debts Sisu & co have taken on

 

[Paxman II]

I raised this subject when Haskell was on the scene. SISU have invested some 30m net approximately. They will not leave while that kind of money is owed to them. They need to get close to recouping it and holding onto the club is their best option due to relegation. They need to improve the clubs stature and earnings again. Potentially it's huge but currently not.
So why did Haskell not approach them and offer a figure in this region? He also had the councils ear to development around the stadium site (surely his biggest prize and route of his interest?) yet he failed to do so. I think the answer is in his previous attempts at other clubs tbh and the rather ludicrously fantasist in Joe Elliot and the rather foolish banker who writes things on fag packets and then offers loans to pay SISU's rent for a fee? Hmmm.
Seems to me all these greedy bastards were only interested in getting their dirty hands on it cheap through admin and the council/ACL thought they could pull this off. SISU played hard ball and like a wounded animal fought back. Tell me are any of these groups worthy of our trust? I think not.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

I raised this subject when Haskell was on the scene. SISU have invested some 30m net approximately. They will not leave while that kind of money is owed to them. They need to get close to recouping it and holding onto the club is their best option due to relegation. They need to improve the clubs stature and earnings again. Potentially it's huge but currently not.
So why did Haskell not approach them and offer a figure in this region? He also had the councils ear to development around the stadium site (surely his biggest prize and route of his interest?) yet he failed to do so. I think the answer is in his previous attempts at other clubs tbh and the rather ludicrously fantasist in Joe Elliot and the rather foolish banker who writes things on fag packets and then offers loans to pay SISU's rent for a fee? Hmmm.
Seems to me all these greedy bastards were only interested in getting their dirty hands on it cheap through admin and the council/ACL thought they could pull this off. SISU played hard ball and like a wounded animal fought back. Tell me are any of these groups worthy of our trust? I think not.

"the rather ludicrously fantasist in Joe Elliot "
"the rather foolish banker"
"all these greedy bastards"
"SISU played hard ball and like a wounded animal fought back"

So, a fine piece of objective analysis. :thinking about:

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

@PaxmanII..... Where do you justify saying "SISU played hard ball and like a wounded animal fought back."....Did they "Fight back" by not paying a contracted rent?...Trying to destabilise, and eventually "Steal a business for nothing"(Or very little amount of payout) Have lied to the fans on a regular basis, and taken money from the fans and in return given a sub-standard product(So called football team....Hence relegation) SISU have been on the front foot since "Day one" and have ridden "Rough Shod" over anything and everyone in their path!

 

[valiant15]

Because he's a sisu rent boy. As hes always been.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The accounts of SBSL show total loans from SISU funds amounting to around £30-35m as of mid 2011. Fast forward two years on, it's anyone's guess as to the scale of the loans now however considering the club's likely losses over this time I would expect to stand at no greater than £45m.

The cost of any new ground and the land and contractual wrangling to boot will significantly increase this group debt. Paxman asks why Haskell wasn't prepared to offer this sum up front. He wasn't bidding for the group but for Limited whose function as a footballing entity was under major doubt; furthermore Otium as a SISU entity could always wipe off debt (not 'pay it off') whereas Haskell would have to use his own cash for a potentially worthless company.

It would have made no sense. However, what is much more interesting is the Hoffman deal that was rejected not by SISU but Dulieu in mid 2011 and would have paid off some of the debt (around a third) up front with the rest going off future profits/takings.

 

[Skybluesquirrel]

That was the amount of real money OSB reckoned SISU had put into CCFC.

It was around £20million in May 2011. They would have funded around £3m of losses for 2012 and another £2 at least for last season. Add at least £1m for the recent legal fees.

They will have invested around £26 by now. Seppala has been heavily involved this year so would expect compensation for that.

Adventure capitalists would look for returns of around 10% a year. My guess is that the price is a minimum of £35 million. Likely to be way higher in sisu's heads.

If they wanted out, you might get it for less. However, even if they did want to sell they won't admit to it as that weakens the position when negotiating. And they know how to dictate negotiations for their own benefit.

For that price you get the brand, the golden share and not a whole lot more. Years of uncertainty, a bit of potential and the need for additional investment year on year.

 

[Skybluesquirrel]

The accounts of SBSL show total loans from SISU funds amounting to around £30-35m as of mid 2011. Fast forward two years on, it's anyone's guess as to the scale of the loans now however considering the club's likely losses over this time I would expect to stand at no greater than £45m.

I seem to remember you making me do extra work BSB after my first blog post to show it wasn't £30 million of hard currency. The debt outstanding at May 2011 was £30m. But according to cashflow statements, it was nearer to £20million.

 

[jesus-wept]

You keep mentioning Heskell but what about the 2 mystery interested parties, but I believe one of them atleast have not gone away and I believe sisu know that and Heskell hasn't gone away either.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I seem to remember you making me do extra work BSB after my first blog post to show it wasn't £30 million of hard currency. The debt outstanding at May 2011 was £30m. But according to cashflow statements, it was nearer to £20million.

Would that have been due to the ProZone sale? It's a long time since I looked at those accounts so not surprised my numbers are a bit off.

 

[Stevec189]

I reckon around £60 million. Roughly based on £50 million they have pumped in and a better than 5% return they will have promised as a return to the investors. For that you would get a business with no revenue streams, massive outgoings, no assets and little goodwill! Would you really buy it?

 

[thaiskyblue]

they got the club for nothing.

 

[Skybluesquirrel]

I reckon around £60 million. Roughly based on £50 million they have pumped in and a better than 5% return they will have promised as a return to the investors. For that you would get a business with no revenue streams, massive outgoings, no assets and little goodwill! Would you really buy it?

Can you find any documents that show they have invested £50 million in cash? No-one has to my knowledge.

The costs have now been stripped back to the bare bones, so if you can find a decent manager to motivate players to over perform then you could in theory start to make profits.

If you had a fans willing to spend money with you of course.

 

[Skybluesquirrel]

Would that have been due to the ProZone sale? It's a long time since I looked at those accounts so not surprised my numbers are a bit off.

Couldn't tell why. Just another case of things not reconciling in the accounts. The joy of using subsidiaries to obscure and deflect. Similar to CCFC owing holdings in their accounts, but Holdings not owed anything by CCFC in theirs. To quote TF, a bit of a mess...

 

[Waycov]

They will have invested around £26 by now.

If that's all they've invested, I'll give em 50 quid if they fuck off now!

 

[Deleted member 5849]

If that's all they've invested, I'll give em 50 quid if they fuck off now!

Question.

Is the difference between amounts invested and 'debt', and the amount set to be written off in any exit from administration, linked to any contingent liabilities owed to former directors/owners, or is that barking up the wrong conspiracy tree?

 

[Skybluesquirrel]

Question.

Is the difference between amounts invested and 'debt', and the amount set to be written off in any exit from administration, linked to any contingent liabilities owed to former directors/owners, or is that barking up the wrong conspiracy tree?

You would imagine the two would be the same but it's more complex than that. If you invest time, personnel and skills and are employed by a different company, you could increase the level of debt by sending invoices to CCFC from the other subsidiary. Hence Sisu being 'owed' £30million from SBSL yet only appearing to actual pump in £20million in cash terms.

How were these fees agreed? Do they represent good value for CCFC? Was it a way to take money out of the business. We're any services actually received? Who knows?

The majority of the original loans from McGunity and Robinson were written off when Sisu took over. £6m was due to be repaid on return to the premier league, which of course never became due. They were written off in SBSL but not in CCFC or Holdings. Sure there's a blog somewhere that went into it in great detail...

 

[italiahorse]

One day someone will write it all down and it will be a CCFC must read.
I'm not sure what is fact or fiction, who is guessing or who is in the know, whether it's opinion or truth.
I keep applying logic but all I know is that it does not add up.