Show me the NOPM campaign is working... (5 Viewers)

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

If we presented Mr. Brody with a formal offer for his stake in the club he would have to 1) accept 2) reject 3) negotiate. he cannot just ignore a formal offer

What is a "formal legal offer"?

Why would he be unable to ignore it?

This could go on for some time........

They are serious questions. What makes an offer "formal" and "legal", rather than "informal" and "illegal"? Why can he not ignore this offer when it arrives? Do you believe that there is some legislation that covers this? If so, can you please reference it.

 

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[ccfcmustang]

just seen a pig fly past my window. sisu are going to spend 10,000000 ?, do you still believe in father xmas ?

they have already put 45,000,000 into the club they say. they have proved to FL accountants that they have 10,000,000 to initially pay. you need a miracle if you think you will starve them out

 

[ccfcmustang]

What is a "formal legal offer"?

Why would he be unable to ignore it?

This could go on for some time........

They are serious questions. What makes an offer "formal" and "legal", rather than "informal" and "illegal"? Why can he not ignore this offer when it arrives? Do you believe that there is some legislation that covers this? If so, can you please reference it.

Well i meant formal offer. This is by it goes through the law and through companies house. Mr. Brody would be presented with a document saying xxxxx has made you an offer of xxxxxx for your 4% stake in Coventry City. there is normally a time frame attached to an offer for a stake in a business for example it would say you have unitl 24Th of December to reply to this offer. Then by company law he must decide on his next move

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

they have already put 45,000,000 into the club they say. they have proved to FL accountants that they have 10,000,000 to initially pay. you need a miracle if you think you will starve them out

Firstly, you might understand that there is a degree of scepticism about the level of due dilligence carried out by the Football League.

I spoke to the Football League just after they approved the groundshare. I asked them why they had approved it and was told that it was because there was no possibility of the club playing in Coventry. I asked them what evidence they had based that view on and they told me (this is honestly true) that SISU/Otium had told them so!

However let's ignore that and assume that this time they've done a proper job. What I think you'll find is that they'll have seen access to funds for a capital project. This is generally quite different to access to funds for supporting trading losses - i.e. one offers a valid form of security and the other doesn't.

So I think you have to consider that your basic premise may well be fatally flawed.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

Well i meant formal offer. This is by it goes through the law and through companies house. Mr. Brody would be presented with a document saying xxxxx has made you an offer of xxxxxx for your 4% stake in Coventry City. there is normally a time frame attached to an offer for a stake in a business for example it would say you have unitl 24Th of December to reply to this offer. Then by company law he must decide on his next move

I have never heard of an offer for the purchase of shares being made through Companies House.

I have equally never heard of this provision in company law that you refer to.

I'm very happy to be proven wrong, but would be grateful if you could point me to the appropriate clause in the legislation.

 

[CharlesMore]

Coventry population - 316,900
Disgruntled, falling fan base. irretrievable relationship with council and some fans.

Dudley (No football team) population - 310,800
Have 1 sh*t team playing 8 rings below the league and they finished bottom.

Croydon (no official football team) population - 330, 688


Next criticism?

I think you will find Palace play in Croyden!

 

[blueflint]

Some of you on here are criticising me given my previous stance on the NOPM campaign.

I know we are only 3 games into the new season and no consequence of the campaign will have developed by now however, Greg Clarke has said that his accountants have seen PROOF OF FUNDS to be able to put down an initial £10,000,000 to a new stadium AND funds to cover all losses while we ground share at Northampton. This stance has been echoed by TF and the F.A.

Now for the maths. If we sold out Sixfields every week, to make things easier, lets say 7000 every game for 23 games. Right, at £16 a ticket this would mean revenue of just £2,576,000 this season. Taking away now policing costs, stewarding costs and the rest that figure probably in the region of £750,000 to £1,000,000. That leaves a revenue of around £1,750,000. Compared to the around £50,000,000 they claim to have invested already, that number is pennies.

SISU have maintained that the club is not for sale. here is where my worry is. Without this revenue I think there is more chance of the club franchising and moving away rather than coming home. We all know that SISU have no intention of building a new stadium, they want the Ricoh. The council will not sell to "such an unethical company" and so they shouldnt. So what options does this leave? 1) Franchising the club and moving to a different location 2) Sell the club. Nothing over the past 6 years has suggested to me that SISU will sell the club. Somehow Joy and Tim have convinced their investors to keep investing. They would not suddenly pull the plug after investing so much capital, it just will not happen. If they did choose to sell the price would be astronomical considering their investments into the club, the price tag significantly higher than anyone will be willing to pay.

SISU have not even acknowledged the various protests and campaigns that have surfaced over the past few months. The fans have become divided and the gap between this division is only widening. The fans need some sort of leadership. This should have come from the trust, from the outset. I agree that the KCIC campaign was a good idea however I now see the trust withering away and not attempted to bridge the gap of disgruntled fans. This is why we need a change of direction.

I dont dislike the NOPM campaign by any stretch of the imagination however I feel it can be used as a scapegoat by lazy fans who just think that shouting NOPM will change everything.

We need a new direction, new leadership and begin to unite us fans again. We are much stronger together than we are apart. Arguing amongst ourselves shows us to be a mockery and actually shows SISU are winning. it is basically a carbon copy of Wimbledon/MK Dons.

While I agree we need SISU gone we also need transparency of our club at board level. This is why i suggested attempting to purchase Brody's 4% stake in the club and then to elect a fan rep to sit on the board. At least we have something which we can use as a catalyst to get things done. At least Fisher would have to listen to fans opinions and any wrong doings will be brought to light.

Other than that I suggested a mass pitch invasion Vs Sheffield UTD live on sky, just something to physically affect the runnings of the club in a way that cannot be ignored.

We need to constantly chnage our approach until we find the one that changes things. But firsts things first we need to be united, we need our trust to step up the mark.

I have given you all at least some evidence as why the NOPM campaign will not work, that is more than anything you can give me to suggest it will? other than "companies cannot operate without consumers" yes thats true, but i am 100% sure SISU would rather franchise the club than sell.

we have had one home game come back after ten home games and still say its not working

 

[ccfcmustang]

I think you will find Palace play in Croyden you SISU puppet.

The hallowed grounds of Selhurst Park fall within the London borough but not the city perimeter Crystal Palace itself sits in the borough of Bormley. Please check your information before responding. SISU puppet? haha read my original post, arsehole

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

IMHO...

NOPM will NOT work immediately as Otium have the means to fund the club without customers in the short-term.

NOPM will work long-term as the funds "donated" by Otium/Sisu businesses in order to finance the club are NOT ALLOWED to be conditional or loans in they are to qualify under the Salary Cap Protocol 60% figure....

...so unlike previously where sisu have allegedly funded the club by means of building debt......they will not be able to do this IF they require the new funds to contribute in anyway to the salary of players....so they would actually have to invest/spend the money....

...Of course the easy way around this is either to ignore it (and face sanctions such as transfer embargos etc.) or to just play more & more players who have graduated via the academy who happen to be exempt from the SCMP 60% rules!!!

 

[ccfcmustang]

we have had one home game come back after ten home games and still say its not working

Ill come back after 46 games and prove its not working

 

[oldskyblue58]

actually it would be more like 1.7m because you havent taken out the VAT or factored in the cheap season tickets and concessions . add on the advertising income, the F&B/carpark shared with Northampton the shop sales TV money etc you are probably heading towards 3m net turnover

Then take out the costs
Groundrent, policing, utilities, insurance etc say £2m
Wages - this isnt a straight 60% of 3.0m there are other factors involved including ages of players, share capital increases, non playing staff etc but say the total is 2.5m
interest on loans runs at £1m+ a year (likely more now)
spend on academy 500k
costs of shop and ryton £500k

loss 3.5m + per year possibly ? call it 3m even with sell out crowds

Lets say they can cover that each year thats up to 15m over the time they remain under league rules at sixfields. If only £100k is lost by NOPM each year thats another 500k in total. Probably not a deal breaker for SISU but it adds some pressure.

But the real problem NOPM causes is that the kids are not getting the merchandise, not getting to see the team. They dont build affinity to the club choose other more successful teams. Yes some will go but the crowd limit is currently 7400 and kids dont hang around for extensions to be built so more can go, they choose other things, put pressure on parents to support them in other things. The worry for me for the club (not SISU) is that there is a whole generation of kids that will lose connection with the club mainly because of the move but partly because of the NOPM campaign. That will have an effect well past the 3 years of groundshare.

 

[ccfcmustang]

IMHO...

NOPM will NOT work immediately as Otium have the means to fund the club without customers in the short-term.

NOPM will work long-term as the funds "donated" by Otium/Sisu businesses in order to finance the club are NOT ALLOWED to be conditional or loans in they are to qualify under the Salary Cap Protocol 60% figure....

...so unlike previously where sisu have allegedly funded the club by means of building debt......they will not be able to do this IF they require the new funds to contribute in anyway to the salary of players....so they would actually have to invest/spend the money....

...Of course the easy way around this is either to ignore it (and face sanctions such as transfer embargos etc.) or to just play more & more players who have graduated via the academy who happen to be exempt from the SCMP 60% rules!!!

Noone knows who the investors of SISU are, they have pumped 45,000,000 in already I just cannot see the business sense in pulling out now?

 

[Houdi]

Marketing is done by all football clubs and I think you are clinging onto tiny glimmers of hope. like I said if we sold out every game they would have revenue of £2.5m that is not enough to support this club. This is what i mean by they have the funds to accommodate the loss, if they didnt they would of stayed at the ricoh its that simple

We have played 1 'home' game so far, so no one knows how this will yet play out. If SISU weren't bothered by attendances why are they taking full page adverts in the local paper, offering BOGOF hospitality deals, if attendances didn't matter. 5/6 months on from stating plans about a new ground there is still no firm indication of anything concrete happening. Greg Clarke has openly admitted that he doesn't know if a new ground will be built. If SISU lose their judicial review that will greatly limit their options. Yes SISU won't easily walk away, however no business can sustain losses forever.
Maybe SISU will go on happily losing money for years and years, although most rationale people have to believe that sooner or later, they will come to their senses, and reach a deal to sell up.

 

[blueflint]

they have already put 45,000,000 into the club they say. they have proved to FL accountants that they have 10,000,000 to initially pay. you need a miracle if you think you will starve them out

clark actually said they had no proof that SISU would ever return to cov so where is the proof of funds in your own head i havn't seen them

 

[ccfcmustang]

actually it would be more like 1.7m because you havent taken out the VAT or factored in the cheap season tickets and concessions . add on the advertising income, the F&B/carpark shared with Northampton the shop sales TV money etc you are probably heading towards 3m net turnover

Then take out the costs
Groundrent, policing, utilities, insurance etc say £2m
Wages - this isnt a straight 60% of 3.0m there are other factors involved including ages of players, share capital increases, non playing staff etc but say the total is 2.5m
interest on loans runs at £1m+ a year (likely more now)
spend on academy 500k
costs of shop and ryton £500k

loss 3.5m + per year possibly ? call it 3m even with sell out crowds

Lets say they can cover that each year thats up to 15m over the time they remain under league rules at sixfields. If only £100k is lost by NOPM each year thats another 500k in total. Probably not a deal breaker for SISU but it adds some pressure.

But the real problem NOPM causes is that the kids are not getting the merchandise, not getting to see the team. They dont build affinity to the club choose other more successful teams. Yes some will go but the crowd limit is currently 7400 and kids dont hang around for extensions to be built so more can go, they choose other things, put pressure on parents to support them in other things. The worry for me for the club (not SISU) is that there is a whole generation of kids that will lose connection with the club mainly because of the move but partly because of the NOPM campaign. That will have an effect well past the 3 years of groundshare.

Exactly, I feel it causes more harm for the CLUB than actually driving SISU away

 

[ccfcmustang]

clark actually said they had no proof that SISU would ever return to cov so where is the proof of funds in your own head i havn't seen them

I cant be arsed to find the interview however, Clark said along the lines of "my accountants have seen the funds to prove they can initially pay 10,000,000 into the stadium borrow the other 15,000,000. also that the club can cover losses for the 3/5 year period" also he said that he didnt know if they would return but his accounts have seen the monetary proof that it is possible. (also possible to build a ground anywhere)

 

[blueflint]

Ill come back after 46 games and prove its not working

doubt that m8 but will hold you to that home games only by the way as away games don't matter they get no income from them

 

[oldskyblue58]

SISU own the club how do you damage SISU financially without hurting the club. Question is ..... is the pain for the club worth it to get our club back in Coventry. Only people who can bring the club back are the owners, and the thing they care about most is money

 

[ccfcmustang]

We have played 1 'home' game so far, so no one knows how this will yet play out. If SISU weren't bothered by attendances why are they taking full page adverts in the local paper, offering BOGOF hospitality deals, if attendances didn't matter. 5/6 months on from stating plans about a new ground there is still no firm indication of anything concrete happening. Greg Clarke has openly admitted that he doesn't know if a new ground will be built. If SISU lose their judicial review that will greatly limit their options. Yes SISU won't easily walk away, however no business can sustain losses forever.
Maybe SISU will go on happily losing money for years and years, although most rationale people have to believe that sooner or later, they will come to their senses, and reach a deal to sell up.

Every business markets themselves. I dont believe that a new ground will be built in Coventry. But the thing is even if we sold out every week in Northampton SISU would still be making a loss? Their investors at the minute are quite happily throwing money at us (why i do not know) but there has to be a reason. this is why we need a fans rep on the board

 

[blueflint]

I cant be arsed to find the interview however, Clark said along the lines of "my accountants have seen the funds to prove they can initially pay 10,000,000 into the stadium borrow the other 15,000,000. also that the club can cover losses for the 3/5 year period" also he said that he didnt know if they would return but his accounts have seen the monetary proof that it is possible. (also possible to build a ground anywhere)

accounts can read anything especially projections doesn't mean that it will happen

 

[stupot07]

Coventry population - 316,900
Disgruntled, falling fan base. irretrievable relationship with council and some fans.

Dudley (No football team) population - 310,800
Have 1 sh*t team playing 8 rings below the league and they finished bottom.

Croydon (no official football team) population - 330, 688


Next criticism?

That's all well and good but you've completely ignored the wider catchment area of Warwickshire (~550k). There are lots of fans from nuneaton, Bedworth, rugby, kennilworth, leamington and Warwick.

 

[ccfcmustang]

Whether fans go or not, the club makes a loss either way. attendances of 0 or attendances of 7,000 there is 2.5million range there. SISU will decide on their own when to leave I just fear that moving away is more likely than selling the club. If they wanted to cut their losses they would of done it before this season when they had no ground, couldnt sign any players and close to liquidation?

 

[oldskyblue58]

the Clarke interview is here

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/football-league-chief-stay-away-fans-5738925

but how do you give proof of funds when you do not know what is needed ? Do they have to cover £15m in losses ? does the new stadium cost £10m, 25m or 50m? Can they get investors to pay the balance because cant sell what they dont own right now? Is the timescales accurate? Will the funds shown to the league still be there in a year ? Is it all nothing more than a promise again?

 

[ccfcmustang]

That's all well and good but you've completely ignored the wider catchment area of Warwickshire (~550k). There are lots of fans from nuneaton, Bedworth, rugby, kennilworth, leamington and Warwick.

Yes but everywhere has wider catchment areas FOR EXAMPLE- Dudley has Stourbridge, Smethwick, Halesowen, harborne etc... I know halesowen has a team but they are not better than Nuneaton Town

 

[ccfcmustang]

the Clarke interview is here

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/football-league-chief-stay-away-fans-5738925

but how do you give proof of funds when you do not know what is needed ? Do they have to cover £15m in losses ? does the new stadium cost £10m, 25m or 50m? Can they get investors to pay the balance because cant sell what they dont own right now? Is the timescales accurate? Will the funds shown to the league still be there in a year ? Is it all nothing more than a promise again?

We dont know who the investors are so we cant comment. However the club was on its knees before the start of the seaon with offers for the club on the table. Surely they would of accepted them then if they wanted to sell. They didnt have a ground had an embargo etc etc, best time to cut their losses. Why would they continue to bid for the club after everything if they were going to sell? Also if they were to sell they would try and recuperate as much money as then can for the investments that were made. they would charge silly money, money noone will dream of paying for CCFC

 

[ccfcmustang]

Challenged over precisely what evidence of Otium’s “proof of funds” the League’s board was satisfied with when sanctioning the Northampton groundshare, he said he would have to ask the League’s financial team – and the Telegraph will continue to seek answers on fans’ behalf.
The club had shown the League proof of funds for the cash/equity part of the total costs of building a stadium (potentially more than £10million for a £25m stadium, with the rest borrowed); that Otium had been “recapitalised” by Sisu-related Cayman Islands-based hedge fund Arvo Master Fund; and that the company could fund the club’s losses while groundsharing.



There you go. Black and white. We need a change of direction

 

[Snozz_is_god]

I think the NOPM will work, but it will take a season.

I'm not going to sicfields because it's 35 miles away

Well actually it's 51.5 miles away for me because I live in Tamworth and I'm not doing a 100+ mile round trip for a 'home' game. So SISU can go and do one.

 

[Jim]

that Otium had been “recapitalised” by Sisu-related Cayman Islands-based hedge fund Arvo Master Fund; and that the company could fund the club’s losses while groundsharing.

Proof that the company could fund the clubs losses while groundsharing is based upon Fishers projections of 3,000 - 7,000 spectators every match. If the actual figures are regularly below that it will call into question the whole basis of the funding assumptions.

 

[Jack Griffin]

I cant be arsed to find the interview however, Clark said along the lines of "my accountants have seen the funds to prove they can initially pay 10,000,000 into the stadium borrow the other 15,000,000. also that the club can cover losses for the 3/5 year period" also he said that he didnt know if they would return but his accounts have seen the monetary proof that it is possible. (also possible to build a ground anywhere)

They can & they will are 2 different things.. why would any company vote to spend £10M it didn't have to?

There is no guarantee that SISU could raise further funds to build a stadium in Coventry, its is a high risk venture, where are the the high returns required to take such a risk?

 

[Grendel]

Anyone who says NOPM more will work is talking tosh. They apply simplistic business models to try and prove this.

The truth is no one knows how the club is funded and no one knows how losses will be absorbed.

With a frugal transfer policy and emphasis on youth development losses could be kept to levels they experienced in the early years.

They are a distant organisation so will not care about the negative publicity. They also seem to be working closely will the league.

It is not like starving a shop - the business model is very different.

In terms of long term effect in will be cataclysmic. The squad has to be eroded and players developed and sold. It's that reason they won't survive 3 years as they won't have a competitive team left that people will want to support. I think they want to build the stadium. They seem obstinant and determined and do not see the folly of the actions.

One thing we do know - they are good at making losses and will see no issue in continuing with that.

 

[SkyBlueM]

For me it is the principle of the thing. I will not be going to Northampton to watch the team play, it is nothing to do with NOPM or is it because of extra travel expenses (I do a 150mile round trip to go to the Ricoh already) but Coventry City should play in Coventry plain and simple and nothing that smarmy c**t Fisher and his cohorts can say will entice me to go to Sixfields. And if anybody says that means I am not a 'proper' fan then they can go and f**k themselves.

 

[Houdi]

Challenged over precisely what evidence of Otium’s “proof of funds” the League’s board was satisfied with when sanctioning the Northampton groundshare, he said he would have to ask the League’s financial team – and the Telegraph will continue to seek answers on fans’ behalf.
The club had shown the League proof of funds for the cash/equity part of the total costs of building a stadium (potentially more than £10million for a £25m stadium, with the rest borrowed); that Otium had been “recapitalised” by Sisu-related Cayman Islands-based hedge fund Arvo Master Fund; and that the company could fund the club’s losses while groundsharing.



There you go. Black and white. We need a change of direction

Proof of funds is one thing, actually committing to building a new stadium is another. It is also worth remembering that SISU investment in the club's retail is actually a wheelbarrow. Plus of course Fisher was on local radio about 3 weeks ago claiming that they hoped to announce a shirt sponsor within 10 days. History has taught most Sky Blue fans to take what SISU say with a lorry load of salt.

 

[stupot07]

Yes but everywhere has wider catchment areas FOR EXAMPLE- Dudley has Stourbridge, Smethwick, Halesowen, harborne etc... I know halesowen has a team but they are not better than Nuneaton Town

Those areas are in the catchment areas for WBA, Wolves, Villa.

 

[Matty_CCFC]

Some of you on here are criticising me given my previous stance on the NOPM campaign.

I know we are only 3 games into the new season and no consequence of the campaign will have developed by now however, Greg Clarke has said that his accountants have seen PROOF OF FUNDS to be able to put down an initial £10,000,000 to a new stadium AND funds to cover all losses while we ground share at Northampton. This stance has been echoed by TF and the F.A.

Now for the maths. If we sold out Sixfields every week, to make things easier, lets say 7000 every game for 23 games. Right, at £16 a ticket this would mean revenue of just £2,576,000 this season. Taking away now policing costs, stewarding costs and the rest that figure probably in the region of £750,000 to £1,000,000. That leaves a revenue of around £1,750,000. Compared to the around £50,000,000 they claim to have invested already, that number is pennies.

SISU have maintained that the club is not for sale. here is where my worry is. Without this revenue I think there is more chance of the club franchising and moving away rather than coming home. We all know that SISU have no intention of building a new stadium, they want the Ricoh. The council will not sell to "such an unethical company" and so they shouldnt. So what options does this leave? 1) Franchising the club and moving to a different location 2) Sell the club. Nothing over the past 6 years has suggested to me that SISU will sell the club. Somehow Joy and Tim have convinced their investors to keep investing. They would not suddenly pull the plug after investing so much capital, it just will not happen. If they did choose to sell the price would be astronomical considering their investments into the club, the price tag significantly higher than anyone will be willing to pay.

SISU have not even acknowledged the various protests and campaigns that have surfaced over the past few months. The fans have become divided and the gap between this division is only widening. The fans need some sort of leadership. This should have come from the trust, from the outset. I agree that the KCIC campaign was a good idea however I now see the trust withering away and not attempted to bridge the gap of disgruntled fans. This is why we need a change of direction.

I dont dislike the NOPM campaign by any stretch of the imagination however I feel it can be used as a scapegoat by lazy fans who just think that shouting NOPM will change everything.

We need a new direction, new leadership and begin to unite us fans again. We are much stronger together than we are apart. Arguing amongst ourselves shows us to be a mockery and actually shows SISU are winning. it is basically a carbon copy of Wimbledon/MK Dons.

While I agree we need SISU gone we also need transparency of our club at board level. This is why i suggested attempting to purchase Brody's 4% stake in the club and then to elect a fan rep to sit on the board. At least we have something which we can use as a catalyst to get things done. At least Fisher would have to listen to fans opinions and any wrong doings will be brought to light.

Other than that I suggested a mass pitch invasion Vs Sheffield UTD live on sky, just something to physically affect the runnings of the club in a way that cannot be ignored.

We need to constantly chnage our approach until we find the one that changes things. But firsts things first we need to be united, we need our trust to step up the mark.

I have given you all at least some evidence as why the NOPM campaign will not work, that is more than anything you can give me to suggest it will? other than "companies cannot operate without consumers" yes thats true, but i am 100% sure SISU would rather franchise the club than sell.

Its not working because not everyone is backing it, if not one person went and it was empty not only would they loose money but the FL would have to take action.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Unless Fisher plans to pay cash for his new stadium then nopm will have an effect.

Building a new stadium will cost millions, which will require either a lot of money up front (unheard of in the business world for a project this size) or it will be on a credit basis.

Now what construction company would get involved with a business that already had a poor credit rating and has since lost 90% of its income?

I would be very surprised for any construction company to get involved with ccfc under the current circumstances.