Show me the NOPM campaign is working... (14 Viewers)

[Matty_CCFC]

We all know a new stadium is a load of bullshit.

 

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[hill83]

It's too soon to say if it's working or not. I don't believe it will work in the long run though.

 

[ccfcmustang]

All in all i think we need a new approach which will entice all fans to follow which could have a bigger impact on the runnings of our club. We all want SISU gone but that may involve talking to them. This is why I think we need to do all we can to get a fans rep onto the board

 

[torchomatic]

Is it working because people on here sayit is and "it's the only way"?

 

[wince]

Anyone who says NOPM more will work is talking tosh. They apply simplistic business models to try and prove this.

The truth is no one knows how the club is funded and no one knows how losses will be absorbed.

With a frugal transfer policy and emphasis on youth development losses could be kept to levels they experienced in the early years.

They are a distant organisation so will not care about the negative publicity. They also seem to be working closely will the league.

It is not like starving a shop - the business model is very different.

In terms of long term effect in will be cataclysmic. The squad has to be eroded and players developed and sold. It's that reason they won't survive 3 years as they won't have a competitive team left that people will want to support. I think they want to build the stadium. They seem obstinant and determined and do not see the folly of the actions.

One thing we do know - they are good at making losses and will see no issue in continuing with that.

No business can run without customers 19000 at the ricoh wasn't enough 2000 at sixfields can not be sustained ,sisu called the councils bluff over sixfields and now are stuck with it and don't know what to do when all hope of getting the ricoh is gone ,so will sisu

 

[Grendel]

No business can run without customers 19000 at the ricoh wasn't enough 2000 at sixfields can not be sustained ,sisu called the councils bluff over sixfields and now are stuck with it and don't know what to do when all hope of getting the ricoh is gone ,so will sisu

It can very easily be maintained if the investment portfolio wants it to.

 

[ccfcmustang]

It can very easily be maintained if the investment portfolio wants it to.

This is what people arent understanding. We dont know who the investers are. However they kept the club alive when they joined, put another 45,000,000 into the club and are still losing money. Somehow Joy and Tim are convincing them to keep investing. They will not sell as they have had many opportunities to even when we were right in the shit. Nothing suggests they will sell at the minute. We may have to talk to them but we need someone on the board

 

[Matty_CCFC]

All in all i think we need a new approach which will entice all fans to follow which could have a bigger impact on the runnings of our club. We all want SISU gone but that may involve talking to them. This is why I think we need to do all we can to get a fans rep onto the board

Your so right.
But they do not care and no intererst in what we want.
Cause them hassle, help them loose money.
They will make more money against Sheffield than any other game.
Lets show everyone we can scare off SKY TV.
Lets put on a little wartm up against Colchester, they may want to talk then before the big one comes round

 

[wince]

It can very easily be maintained if the investment portfolio wants it to

Not for ever, no it can not there is always a cut off point

 

[ccfcmustang]

Not for ever, no it can not there is always a cut off point

50,000,000 so far, when do you suggest this cut off point is?

 

[Hobo]

They might well be able to fund the losses but they still want to keep them to a minimum. Showing the football league funds, they had to if the new stadium was to be taken seriously. Also could show football league we have the finances to enter lengthy legal proceedings if we need to (FL wince and get back on the fence).

I like many have written letters, signed petitions, protested. SISU continue down their own path, they blame others, but we are here because of them.

I don't know whether Not A penny More will work, but until someone comes up with something its the best we've got. I also think to stand chance of working it has to be prolonged ie the whole season if necessary....but we we need good away followings to show the support for the team is still there.

 

[wince]

50,000,000 so far, when do you suggest this cut off point is?

How would I know it could be next week or it could be ten years,But there will come a time when some one at sisu will have to say we are not going to get our money back from that project unless the council give them the ricoh ,Every day the debt goes up the value of the of the ricoh goes down. ITS like buying a 10000 grand car for 2000 if it cost you 8000 to get your 2000 its not such a good deal

 

[ccfcmustang]

I agree that that day must come eventually. However iif/when that day does occur we will have SISU charging an astronomical price for the club as they have invested so much money into it. Prices nooone will pay

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

I agree that that day must come eventually. However iif/when that day does occur we will have SISU charging an astronomical price for the club as they have invested so much money into it. Prices nooone will pay

Except that the amount anyone has put into a company is not relevant to any rational valuation - accountants refer to it as "sunk cost" for the obvious reason.

A company is valued on either its future profits or its net asset value, or a combination of the two.

You may recall that Mr Fisher said in the forums that SISU would not sell at that time as the company was "at the bottom of its business cycle".

I think that any independant observer would reckon that it has since sunk a "little" lower.

I guess you could put that partly down to the idiocy of moving to Northampton and partly down to the impact of NOPM

 

[ccfcmustang]

Except that the amount anyone has put into a company is not relevant to any rational valuation - accountants refer to it as "sunk cost" for the obvious reason.

A company is valued on either its future profits or its net asset value, or a combination of the two.

You may recall that Mr Fisher said in the forums that SISU would not sell at that time as the company was "at the bottom of its business cycle".

I think that any independant observer would reckon that it has since sunk a "little" lower.

I guess you could put that partly down to the idiocy of moving to Northampton and partly down to the impact of NOPM

What im suggesting is that SISU will not sell for a small amount of money. It doesnt matter how they are valued SISU will try and recuperate as much of the "sunk costs" as they can, considering they are a hedge fund. The asking price and and the valuation will be miles apart, yes due to NOPM

 

[Joy Division]

It can very easily be maintained if the investment portfolio wants it to.

In which case, if they can cover losses why move from the Ricoh in the first place?

 

[valiant15]

What im suggesting is that SISU will not sell for a small amount of money. It doesnt matter how they are valued SISU will try and recuperate as much of the "sunk costs" as they can, considering they are a hedge fund. The asking price and and the valuation will be miles apart, yes due to NOPM

For christ sake,if you want to go to Northampton with the exiles then just go will you. Dont start using nopm as an excuse. Coventry should play in Coventry,its as simple as that and just for that reason people should not attend. Enjoy your day in the tin pot shed with a handfull of 'fans'. Fuck sisu, england are getting my money for the next 3 qualifiers at Wembley.

 

[oakey]

Just to reply to the Dudley suggestion ... where I live.
Dudley has Wolves, WBA, Walsall & Villa a stone's throw outside the borough. Look on a map.
Blues & Kidderminster are close too.
Everyone here supports those teams.

 

[ccfcmustang]

Just to reply to the Dudley suggestion ... where I live.
Dudley has Wolves, WBA, Walsall & Villa a stone's throw outside the borough. Look on a map.
Blues & Kidderminster are close too.
Everyone here supports those teams.

I was merely using Dudley as an example to prove that there are places where SISU COULD relocate to, its not as if Coventry is the only place they can be

 

[ccfcmustang]

For christ sake,if you want to go to Northampton with the exiles then just go will you. Dont start using nopm as an excuse. Coventry should play in Coventry,its as simple as that and just for that reason people should not attend. Enjoy your day in the tin pot shed with a handfull of 'fans'. Fuck sisu, england are getting my money for the next 3 qualifiers at Wembley.

Here is where my friend you have got it wrong. My argument is not why we should go to Northampton, im simply showing the many floors to the NOPM campaign. WE NEED A DIFFERENT APPROACH. we cant carry on with the same approach expecting a different result, nothing in life happens that way.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Some of you on here are criticising me given my previous stance on the NOPM campaign.

I know we are only 3 games into the new season and no consequence of the campaign will have developed by now however, Greg Clarke has said that his accountants have seen PROOF OF FUNDS to be able to put down an initial £10,000,000 to a new stadium AND funds to cover all losses while we ground share at Northampton. This stance has been echoed by TF and the F.A.

Now for the maths. If we sold out Sixfields every week, to make things easier, lets say 7000 every game for 23 games. Right, at £16 a ticket this would mean revenue of just £2,576,000 this season. Taking away now policing costs, stewarding costs and the rest that figure probably in the region of £750,000 to £1,000,000. That leaves a revenue of around £1,750,000. Compared to the around £50,000,000 they claim to have invested already, that number is pennies.

SISU have maintained that the club is not for sale. here is where my worry is. Without this revenue I think there is more chance of the club franchising and moving away rather than coming home. We all know that SISU have no intention of building a new stadium, they want the Ricoh. The council will not sell to "such an unethical company" and so they shouldnt. So what options does this leave? 1) Franchising the club and moving to a different location 2) Sell the club. Nothing over the past 6 years has suggested to me that SISU will sell the club. Somehow Joy and Tim have convinced their investors to keep investing. They would not suddenly pull the plug after investing so much capital, it just will not happen. If they did choose to sell the price would be astronomical considering their investments into the club, the price tag significantly higher than anyone will be willing to pay.

SISU have not even acknowledged the various protests and campaigns that have surfaced over the past few months. The fans have become divided and the gap between this division is only widening. The fans need some sort of leadership. This should have come from the trust, from the outset. I agree that the KCIC campaign was a good idea however I now see the trust withering away and not attempted to bridge the gap of disgruntled fans. This is why we need a change of direction.

I dont dislike the NOPM campaign by any stretch of the imagination however I feel it can be used as a scapegoat by lazy fans who just think that shouting NOPM will change everything.

We need a new direction, new leadership and begin to unite us fans again. We are much stronger together than we are apart. Arguing amongst ourselves shows us to be a mockery and actually shows SISU are winning. it is basically a carbon copy of Wimbledon/MK Dons.

While I agree we need SISU gone we also need transparency of our club at board level. This is why i suggested attempting to purchase Brody's 4% stake in the club and then to elect a fan rep to sit on the board. At least we have something which we can use as a catalyst to get things done. At least Fisher would have to listen to fans opinions and any wrong doings will be brought to light.

Other than that I suggested a mass pitch invasion Vs Sheffield UTD live on sky, just something to physically affect the runnings of the club in a way that cannot be ignored.

We need to constantly chnage our approach until we find the one that changes things. But firsts things first we need to be united, we need our trust to step up the mark.

I have given you all at least some evidence as why the NOPM campaign will not work, that is more than anything you can give me to suggest it will? other than "companies cannot operate without consumers" yes thats true, but i am 100% sure SISU would rather franchise the club than sell.

We are only ONE home game into the season. Not sure the value of any merchandise sold.
YOU need someone to prove it to you - fine. I need proof that it isn't having any impact before I stop supporting it...& even then I will definitely NOT go to Northampton.

 

[Joy Division]

I was merely using Dudley as an example to prove that there are places where SISU COULD relocate to, its not as if Coventry is the only place they can be

Not really a good example though for reasons stated by oakey. You've just Wiki'd largest towns without a football team, its not really as simple as that.

 

[Joy Division]

Here is where my friend you have got it wrong. My argument is not why we should go to Northampton, im simply showing the many floors to the NOPM campaign. WE NEED A DIFFERENT APPROACH. we cant carry on with the same approach expecting a different result, nothing in life happens that way.

We've only played one home game so far
We've only played one home game so far
We've only played one home game so far
We've only played one home game so far
We've only played one home game so far
repeat

 

[Spionkop]

Peaceful pitch invasion is a must.
Mustang, we've played ONE 'home' game. A little patience is required. As someone pointed out plenty of time for gates to dip very, very low. Colchester is an early marker.
There will be gates below 1,000 this season. & it'll be interesting seeing JPT attendances. 150?

 

[oakey]

FWIW I think SISU will move the club to wherever they can do a deal that keeps the club alive.
They didn't PLAN to move to Northampton, it was the nearest place that would have them.
If they get a better offer they will go somewhere else in 3 years. If not, we will be homeless in 5 years and will move somewhere, anywhere new.
Will you draw the line then? If so, why not just do it now and speed things up?
Or will you follow again? How far?
Time to make a stand is now, not when the club is dribbling away in the lower leagues in 3, 5, 10 years time.
You will look back and say, Why did we let this happen?

 

[ccfcmustang]

Not really a good example though for reasons stated by oakey. You've just Wiki'd largest towns without a football team, its not really as simple as that.

I apologise my example wasnt fool proof, and yes your right with the wiki claim, thats exactly what I did! But what is certain is that staying in Coventry is not a NECESSITY

 

[ccfcmustang]

Peaceful pitch invasion is a must.
Mustang, we've played ONE 'home' game. A little patience is required. As someone pointed out plenty of time for gates to dip very, very low. Colchester is an early marker.
There will be gates below 1,000 this season. & it'll be interesting seeing JPT attendances. 150?

Yes gates will be extremely low as they should be, but, since SISU took over every year there has been a drop in average attendances. a drop in attendance is not something that will be a shock to them. Also do you not think that SISU would have known that by relocating for 3 years would have massive impacts on the attendance? They would of planned for that. Yes you will say "but they didnt plan for it to be as low as what it is" but as ive pointed out we can only make revenue of 2.5 million if we filled it every week! In the grand scheme of things that will not be a massive impact on the running of the club. If we were getting 30,000 a week in the ricoh, moved, and was getting 2000 yes that will have SIGNIFICANT impact but 10000 to then 1000 to 2000 its just not big enough to make the desired impact

Also yes, a pitch invasion at Sheff UTD will be a massive statement

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Peaceful pitch invasion is a must.
Mustang, we've played ONE 'home' game. A little patience is required. As someone pointed out plenty of time for gates to dip very, very low. Colchester is an early marker.
There will be gates below 1,000 this season. & it'll be interesting seeing JPT attendances. 150?

Pitch invasion means going to the game. Non-starter, otherwise it defeats the NOPM principle.

 

[ccfcmustang]

Pitch invasion means going to the game. Non-starter, otherwise it defeats the NOPM principle.

Can I ask you a question, Do you honestly think that just by not going to sixfields will force SISU out?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Yes gates will be extremely low as they should be, but, since SISU took over every year there has been a drop in average attendances. a drop in attendance is not something that will be a shock to them. Also do you not think that SISU would have known that by relocating for 3 years would have massive impacts on the attendance? They would of planned for that. Yes you will say "but they didnt plan for it to be as low as what it is" but as ive pointed out we can only make revenue of 2.5 million if we filled it every week! In the grand scheme of things that will not be a massive impact on the running of the club. If we were getting 30,000 a week in the ricoh, moved, and was getting 2000 yes that will have SIGNIFICANT impact but 10000 to then 1000 to 2000 its just not big enough to make the desired impact

Also yes, a pitch invasion at Sheff UTD will be a massive statement

Yes it will say "we can & will travel to a home game outside the city" - just to make a point...then the "I support my club come what may" point starts nagging at some...& the momentum of support returning (or at least travelling) to home games has been born...& SISU give a huge sigh of relief.

 

[ccfcmustang]

Yes it will say "we can & will travel to a home game outside the city" - just to make a point...then the "I support my club come what may" point starts nagging at some...& the momentum of support returning (or at least travelling) to home games has been born...& SISU give a huge sigh of relief.

Yes but you cant be naive to suggest that if we keep winning that attendances wont keep growing. There will always be them people who will just want to watch a game of football and not into the politics. If not one single Coventry supporter went to Northampton then yes id agree that NOPM could work on the grounds of a STATEMENT however that will never be the case there will always be people who attend, you must know that? The campaign is istantly flawed. Other than that the figures simply do not add up that NOPM will force SISU out. There are better ways to vent our frustration and better ways to make something happen. I think that the NOPM is dangerously close to people just sitting back and shouting NOPM from their sofas

 

[skybluefred]

This is what people arent understanding. We dont know who the investers are. However they kept the club alive when they joined, put another 45,000,000 into the club and are still losing money. Somehow Joy and Tim are convincing them to keep investing. They will not sell as they have had many opportunities to even when we were right in the shit. Nothing suggests they will sell at the minute. We may have to talk to them but we need someone on the board

You keep on about £45,000,000 sisu have put into the club.Can you show me where it went because it certainly wasn't on players.

 

[ccfcmustang]

You keep on about £45,000,000 sisu have put into the club.Can you show me where it went because it certainly wasn't on players.

Debts aparently!

 

[skybluefred]

Debts aparently!

Debts to whom???--Fictitious money owed to themselves is not DEBT. By sisu's own admission the club is debt free.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Can I ask you a question, Do you honestly think that just by not going to sixfields will force SISU out?

It will not encourage them to stay, nor encourage them to do otherwise than come back to the city for home games at the earliest opportunity once they start to feel it. One game will make little difference & they'll happily make whatever excuses they feel they can/need to to justify their actions.