Excessive Rent leads to financial difficulty shocker (16 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/local-news/coombe-abbey-council-bail-out-5831808

Another 'public asset' managed by a private company with no free access to the public.

The council also receives “significant annual rental income” as leaseholder of the land, let on a long lease to CAPL, whose sole owner No Ordinary Hotels bought the hotel in 1992.
The rent was “increased significantly” when the council’s arrangements with CAPL were restructured in 2006.

 

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[letsallsingtogether]

So what is the point you are trying to make
I'm sure CCC are the only council in Britain who do this covering assets within they area???????

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/local-news/coombe-abbey-council-bail-out-5831808

Another 'public asset' managed by a private company with no free access to the public.

 

[fernandopartridge]

So what is the point you are trying to make
I'm sure CCC are the only council in Britain who do this covering assets within they area???????

You're missing the point. I am not sure how many local authorities agree a high rent with their tenant (i.e. ACL or CAPL) then the tenant gets into difficulty and the Council loans them more money so they can continue paying that rent back! It just seems illogical to me.

 

[Astute]

You're missing the point. I am not sure how many local authorities agree a high rent with their tenant (i.e. ACL or CAPL) then the tenant gets into difficulty and the Council loans them more money so they can continue paying that rent back! It just seems illogical to me.

Will SISU attempt a judicial review for them?

 

[The Reverend Skyblue]

FP, even the most mentally challenged posters on here know what point you are trying to make

 

[fernandopartridge]

Will SISU attempt a judicial review for them?

Whether it could be seen as supporting SISU's case I don't know.

 

[longjohnskyblue]

You're missing the point. I am not sure how many local authorities agree a high rent with their tenant (i.e. ACL or CAPL) then the tenant gets into difficulty and the Council loans them more money so they can continue paying that rent back! It just seems illogical to me.

CCFC were in financial difficulties before they went to the ricoh! If they were in such dire financial difficulties as you claim....

1) Why did they charge to themselves approx £1m in "management" charges each year?

2) Why did they sell there top assets below market price consistenty when surely they would want to maximise profits?

3) Why did they move to sixfields where even if they got maximum attendances they would be below the income at the Ricoh (and they have had to reduce the price of the entrance even further reducing income)

4) Why have they consistently done pretty much everything they can to alienate the fanbase?

Had they not gone out of their way to do everything they can to destroy the club then maybe FP your deluded argument might have a sound basis, however this is entire debacle has NOTHING to do with excessive rent (even sisu admit this!) and EVERYTHING to do with trying to get the arena on the cheap!

If sisu were indeed distressed by the rent, then they would have tried to reduce it far earlier, and how could they possibly have gone to the league apparently proving they can afford £10m + for a stadium (and lets not forget add an additional £15M debt in the process) yet be financially distressed by the rent!

Once again every strand of your argument is like a bucket made from gauze - it does not hold water!

 

[Noggin]

You're missing the point. I am not sure how many local authorities agree a high rent with their tenant (i.e. ACL or CAPL) then the tenant gets into difficulty and the Council loans them more money so they can continue paying that rent back! It just seems illogical to me.

he's not missing the point, the point is just not valid, the rent was put up 9 years ago, the hotel were doing fine with that new rent, they took out a large loan in order to improve the venue more as they were doing well, then the financial crises hit an they had to lower room costs significantly this meant profits fell to 120k last time they submitted the accounts at the end of 2011, presumably the situation has worsened since then.

This has nothing to do with ccfc at all is just an failed attempt at undermining the council.

 

[fernandopartridge]

CCFC were in financial difficulties before they went to the ricoh! If they were in such dire financial difficulties as you claim....

1) Why did they charge to themselves approx £1m in "management" charges each year?

2) Why did they sell there top assets below market price consistenty when surely they would want to maximise profits?

3) Why did they move to sixfields where even if they got maximum attendances they would be below the income at the Ricoh (and they have had to reduce the price of the entrance even further reducing income)

4) Why have they consistently done pretty much everything they can to alienate the fanbase?

Had they not gone out of their way to do everything they can to destroy the club then maybe FP your deluded argument might have a sound basis, however this is entire debacle has NOTHING to do with excessive rent (even sisu admit this!) and EVERYTHING to do with trying to get the arena on the cheap!

If sisu were indeed distressed by the rent, then they would have tried to reduce it far earlier, and how could they possibly have gone to the league apparently proving they can afford £10m + for a stadium (and lets not forget add an additional £15M debt in the process) yet be financially distressed by the rent!

Once again every strand of your argument is like a bucket made from gauze - it does not hold water!

Where have I mentioned CCFC? The Council's tenant is ACL.

 

[skybluetony176]

you say it like these tennants were forced to sign the rent contracts at gunpoint. People just dont sign commercial rent agreements without sitting down 1st and working out what their business model can afford and then negotiate a final price. the other thing you need to remeber is that the council owes it to their taxpayers to get best value for money in every business dealing that they do whether that be buying a fleet of vans or renting a facility to whoever.

and i know that you are going to say that shitsu inherited the rent agreement from the clubs previous owners but they new what that rent agreement was when they bought the club so if they didn't like that agreement that was the time to hold the council to ransom and negotiate a better deal with them as part of the conditions of buying the club. thats whats called business accumen. unless of course you bought the club with a different idea too running an efficiant cost effective business, ooh lets say for example use the club as leverage to broker a deal to purchase the stadium on the cheap and if that dont work go on rent strike under the guiss of it all being about food and bevrages and definately not forcing your landlord out of business so that you can pick up the stadium on the cheap.

i just pray that shitsu have now run out of options, cut their losses and sell up to the highest bidder and we get back to being a football club where the only thing that fans need to worry about is how well the team is doing. be nice wouldn't it? whichever side of the fence you sit on.[/FONT]

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Is this another thread defending Sisu for taking on a contract, reneging on it, then acting like a petulant child... Thought so.

 

[skybluetony176]

Where have I mentioned CCFC? The Council's tenant is ACL.

NO ACL are the management team that run the ricoh on behalf of CCC/Higgins trust, CCFC were the tenant, thats why they were "paying" rent.

also if this isn't about CCFC as you claim can someone in admin move it to off topic please

 

[Esoterica]

you say it like these tennants were forced to sign the rent contracts at gunpoint. People just dont sign commercial rent agreements without sitting down 1st and working out what their business model can afford and then negotiate a final price. the other thing you need to remeber is that the council owes it to their taxpayers to get best value for money in every business dealing that they do whether that be buying a fleet of vans or renting a facility to whoever.

and i know that you are going to say that shitsu inherited the rent agreement from the clubs previous owners but they new what that rent agreement was when they bought the club so if they didn't like that agreement that was the time to hold the council to ransom and negotiate a better deal with them as part of the conditions of buying the club. thats whats called business accumen. unless of course you bought the club with a different idea too running an efficiant cost effective business, ooh lets say for example use the club as leverage to broker a deal to purchase the stadium on the cheap and if that dont work go on rent strike under the guiss of it all being about food and bevrages and definately not forcing your landlord out of business so that you can pick up the stadium on the cheap.

i just pray that shitsu have now run out of options, cut their losses and sell up to the highest bidder and we get back to being a football club where the only thing that fans need to worry about is how well the team is doing. be nice wouldn't it? whichever side of the fence you sit on.[/FONT]

You weren't ever worried about about where the money was going before SISU arrived? Why we had these dodgy hondurans? Where the robbie keane money went? Why the club was split into ltd and holdings a long time before our current owners came along? You weren't worried about it then BECAUSE the team was doing well.

And what if by getting the best value for money on a business deal, the council contributes towards the ruin of one of it's own communities?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

My point is nearly all councils do it, that is why we have so many empty shops in our town centres just look around you it's not hard. In Coventry the majority of the shops that are empty are owned by private companies who charge higher rents.
So what does this prove that CCC are 100% to blame for the downfall of our badly run football club?

You're missing the point. I am not sure how many local authorities agree a high rent with their tenant (i.e. ACL or CAPL) then the tenant gets into difficulty and the Council loans them more money so they can continue paying that rent back! It just seems illogical to me.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

But as we are now playing and paying rent in Northampton, that so is now not the case as SISU have ripped up any deals they have made and now they are feeling the pinch they carry on blaming every one else.
They should sit down and thrash out a new deal. Oh but first they need to talk to people something they don't like doing unless it is all on their own terms and no one else gets to speak, works both ways i'm afraid but go on keep defending them because they are whiter then white

You weren't ever worried about about where the money was going before SISU arrived? Why we had these dodgy hondurans? Where the robbie keane money went? Why the club was split into ltd and holdings a long time before our current owners came along? You weren't worried about it then BECAUSE the team was doing well.

And what if by getting the best value for money on a business deal, the council contributes towards the ruin of one of it's own communities?

 

[Esoterica]

But as we are now playing and paying rent in Northampton, that so is now not the case as SISU have ripped up any deals they have made and now they are feeling the pinch they carry on blaming every one else.
They should sit down and thrash out a new deal. Oh but first they need to talk to people something they don't like doing unless it is all on their own terms and no one else gets to speak, works both ways i'm afraid but go on keep defending them because they are whiter then white

I barely see any relation in your reply to what I wrote but hey, here goes - are the current talks with Higgs to move the academy back there on SISU's terms and no-one else getting to speak? Talks described by both parties as positive? If SISU are feeling the pinch, why did they reject any deadline day transfer bids, of which they received at least one for Christie?

 

[njdlawyer]

...BECAUSE the team was doing well...

Doing well???? Which couple of weeks of which season do you mean? Relegation followed by four seasons of mid-table mediocrity and narrow escapes from further relegation prior to SISU's arrival hardly constitutes "doing well"

Most people attribute(d) pre-SISU losses to the fact that we continued to pay premier league wages to a succession of managers and over-large squads. As for the Keane money most people were aware at the time that there was a third-party ownership situation involving him meaning that we saw little of the money - although we did go out and buy Craig Bellamy and a couple of other players after he was sold

CCC just like other councils own an awful lot of land and property that is rented out. They have a public duty to achieve the best possible return on that land and property. If every council tenant and lessee adopted the SISU approach then the City of Coventry would probably go bankrupt. CCC / Higgs / ACL are blameless in all of this. Remember that they are being asked to agree a massive rent reduction and / or sale to an organisation that continues to boast that it has so much money that it can build a new football stadium and support losses of £10million pa for up to five years

 

[fernandopartridge]

NO ACL are the management team that run the ricoh on behalf of CCC/Higgins trust, CCFC were the tenant, thats why they were "paying" rent.

also if this isn't about CCFC as you claim can someone in admin move it to off topic please

ACL lease the Ricoh Arena from Coventry City Council. The mechanism they used to pay it was a mortgage through the Yorkshire Bank, which the council has now bailed them out on. Effectively they are the council's tenant.

If you could explain how they're just a management company that would be helpful....

 

[fernandopartridge]

My point is nearly all councils do it, that is why we have so many empty shops in our town centres just look around you it's not hard. In Coventry the majority of the shops that are empty are owned by private companies who charge higher rents.
So what does this prove that CCC are 100% to blame for the downfall of our badly run football club?

Coventry City Council have always owned a disproportionate amount of property in Coventry City Centre and charge rents higher than neighbouring cities. I know this through a former job where rents across cities were analysed.

I suspect they've offloaded some of their property now but they still own some in town, have a look at some of the units next time to check who is marketing them.

 

[Postman Pat]

Doing well???? Which couple of weeks of which season do you mean? Relegation followed by four seasons of mid-table mediocrity and narrow escapes from further relegation prior to SISU's arrival hardly constitutes "doing well"

Most people attribute(d) pre-SISU losses to the fact that we continued to pay premier league wages to a succession of managers and over-large squads. As for the Keane money most people were aware at the time that there was a third-party ownership situation involving him meaning that we saw little of the money - although we did go out and buy Craig Bellamy and a couple of other players after he was sold

CCC just like other councils own an awful lot of land and property that is rented out. They have a public duty to achieve the best possible return on that land and property. If every council tenant and lessee adopted the SISU approach then the City of Coventry would probably go bankrupt. CCC / Higgs / ACL are blameless in all of this. Remember that they are being asked to agree a massive rent reduction and / or sale to an organisation that continues to boast that it has so much money that it can build a new football stadium and support losses of £10million pa for up to five years

CCC/Higgs /Acl blameless :facepalm:, maybe Higgs but certainly not the other two,really cant believe anyone thinks that

 

[fernandopartridge]

Doing well???? Which couple of weeks of which season do you mean? Relegation followed by four seasons of mid-table mediocrity and narrow escapes from further relegation prior to SISU's arrival hardly constitutes "doing well"

Most people attribute(d) pre-SISU losses to the fact that we continued to pay premier league wages to a succession of managers and over-large squads. As for the Keane money most people were aware at the time that there was a third-party ownership situation involving him meaning that we saw little of the money - although we did go out and buy Craig Bellamy and a couple of other players after he was sold

CCC just like other councils own an awful lot of land and property that is rented out. They have a public duty to achieve the best possible return on that land and property. If every council tenant and lessee adopted the SISU approach then the City of Coventry would probably go bankrupt. CCC / Higgs / ACL are blameless in all of this. Remember that they are being asked to agree a massive rent reduction and / or sale to an organisation that continues to boast that it has so much money that it can build a new football stadium and support losses of £10million pa for up to five years

It isn't really an 'open market' property like a retail unit in the City Centre. It's a purpose built football stadium for the City's football team.

 

[Grendel]

It isn't really an 'open market' property like a retail unit in the City Centre. It's a purpose built football stadium for the City's football team.

Careful you sound like a fan of the football team -- that sort of thing gets people wanting you banned off here.

 

[Noggin]

It isn't really an 'open market' property like a retail unit in the City Centre. It's a purpose built football stadium for the City's football team.

purpose built football stadium? I thought it was an old abbey house in beautiful grounds?

 

[skybluetony176]

You weren't ever worried about about where the money was going before SISU arrived? Why we had these dodgy hondurans? Where the robbie keane money went? Why the club was split into ltd and holdings a long time before our current owners came along? You weren't worried about it then BECAUSE the team was doing well.

And what if by getting the best value for money on a business deal, the council contributes towards the ruin of one of it's own communities?

I've always been worried about the club regardless of our situation at that time in question, that called being a fan. what i'm not going to do is worry about what the last owners/management team done, thats done and dusted. what i am going to worry about is what shitsu are doing as the current owners/management team do and all we have done is under the current regime is go backwards and 34miles south, thats what worries me.

yes the council done too little to late in the rent argument they could have come up with their final offer alot earlier, but lets be frank handling it the way they did played into shitsu's hands ccc ballsed up in more than 1 way and like i said earlier shitsu new what the rent agreement was before they took over and that was the prime oppertunity to renegotiate the rent deal, not 4years after the bridge has been burnt through the press, courts and rent strike's.

 

[fernandopartridge]

purpose built football stadium? I thought it was an old abbey house in beautiful grounds?

Don't be facetious, I had quoted the lawyer's post.

 

[skybluetony176]

ACL lease the Ricoh Arena from Coventry City Council. The mechanism they used to pay it was a mortgage through the Yorkshire Bank, which the council has now bailed them out on. Effectively they are the council's tenant.

If you could explain how they're just a management company that would be helpful....

OK. i own a house i rent, i dont rent it direct to my tenants i follow industry standard and use a letting agent for a fee. they find the tennants and handle the day to day business of running the property.

 

[Esoterica]

I've always been worried about the club regardless of our situation at that time in question, that called being a fan. what i'm not going to do is worry about what the last owners/management team done, thats done and dusted. what i am going to worry about is what shitsu are doing as the current owners/management team do and all we have done is under the current regime is go backwards and 34miles south, thats what worries me.

yes the council done too little to late in the rent argument they could have come up with their final offer alot earlier, but lets be frank handling it the way they did played into shitsu's hands ccc ballsed up in more than 1 way and like i said earlier shitsu new what the rent agreement was before they took over and that was the prime oppertunity to renegotiate the rent deal, not 4years after the bridge has been burnt through the press, courts and rent strike's.

But you just said that you pray 'we get back to being a football club where the only thing that fans need to worry about is how well the team is doing'.

And the last owners/management team is not 'done and dusted'. Joe Elliot, who has been on the board throughout multiple regimes is involved with Haskell. Many people's preferred saviour

 

[RPHunt]

While we are doing totally unrelated links, here's another:

Hedge Fund Fraud Leads To Extradition.html

 

[fernandopartridge]

OK. i own a house i rent, i dont rent it direct to my tenants i follow industry standard and use a letting agent for a fee. they find the tennants and handle the day to day business of running the property.

Your letting agent does not have any sort of tenure of your property.

 

[fernandopartridge]

While we are doing totally unrelated links, here's another:

Hedge Fund Fraud Leads To Extradition.html

You've read the word 'hedge fund' and?

It was a fraud. Are you saying SISU are a pretend hedge fund and are going to fuck off to Switzerland soon?

 

[torchomatic]

Weird. I thought CCC had to save millions of pounds over the next few years. Obviously not, they've got money to burn, it seems.

 

[thaiskyblue]

You've read the word 'hedge fund' and?

It was a fraud. Are you saying SISU are a pretend hedge fund and are going to fuck off to Switzerland soon?

fingers crossed eh.

 

[RPHunt]

You've read the word 'hedge fund' and?

It was a fraud. Are you saying SISU are a pretend hedge fund and are going to fuck off to Switzerland soon?

No, I am saying it is totally unrelated - just like your original post.

Oh, and I suspect that most people on here would rather read about some scumbag, running a fraudulent hedge fund, getting his comeuppance than read about the financial problems of a hotel they are never going to stay in. Not that either story has anything to do with the problems of CCFC.

 

[fernandopartridge]

No, I am saying it is totally unrelated - just like your original post.

Oh, and I suspect that most people on here would rather read about some scumbag, running a fraudulent hedge fund, getting his comeuppance than read about the financial problems of a hotel they are never going to stay in. Not that either story has anything to do with the problems of CCFC.

The hedge fund never existed, it's a red herring!

 

[RPHunt]

The hedge fund never existed, it's a red herring!

Are you saying there is nothing fishy about SISU?