The war is over, time for the peace treaty (13 Viewers)

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Mitigating losses on the short term by not investing in the future is a recipe for disaster - look at rover.

Agree- so demonstrate the investment?

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

From what I heard on friday night,Robinson was in a no win situation when the 1.5m rent was agreed.He had one arm up forced up his back.if he didn't sign there would be no stadium for ccfc.several months after he signed it he went back to acl to see if it could be reduced and was told to do one

I would love to know why at the 2006 EGM, the following was reported and 7 years later, there was still no movement on rent.

The report had revealed that the club are in talks with the Arena Company, which owns the new stadium, with a view to lowering the £1 million rent to £500,000 while they are in the Championship and rising to £1.5m if and when the club gain promotion

Here's an interesting little tidbit btw:

City council leader Ken Taylor revealed that two other "derisory" bids had been received from two other firms.

One, called Sisu, had offered £15million.

The other was from a firm called Shapiro, which offered £26million but wanted the club to pay off its debts and the city council to give it a longer lease on the Ricoh Arena and some spare land to the north of the site.

Now, could well have been derisory indeed. Interesting that someone offered more cash, but wanted more in return for it... and wanted a club on a firmer footing than the offer was accepted.

Note that this may indeed have been an offer of no use, there are many of those (interesting that the other derisory offer ended up the one accepted, however!)... but in terms of focussing a debate around a club with firmer foundations, it's a shame something like this was swept under the carpet, and the offer of cold hard cash, with no foundations underpinning it was eventually the one gobbled up.

This was at the time of Manhattan btw.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/sky-blues-face-bleak-future-3105889

Googling Sheldon Yellen gives somewhat more information about him than our friend Mr. Haskell, it's worth noting...

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

They did. Who's denying that? I even in this very thread criticised them for spending money on a player or two hoping for a promotion and big returns, as opposed to building the infrastructure of the club.

Doesn't this say that I agree wholeheartedly with this? Doesn't it, in fact, suggest that I'm particularly critical of a business model that hopes for short term hit and run rewards, rather than looks at themselves as custodians of the club?

Doesn't it in fact read as... anti SISU?



The short term loss is not avoidable.

Notwithstanding the fact that offers were wilfully made with conditions that meant they were unable to be accepted, they were never made to the club either.

Therefore, the short term loss is unavoidable.

Couple that with the fact the club as is is probably IMHO utterly unsustainable even with a zero rent offer, and we have a serious problem. The club has *nothing* to its name apart from a training ground that McGinnity tried to sell, and was only stopped from doing so by refusal of planning permission for housing.

Even saying that, to some mentalists around here, will automatically paint that (and me by association!) as pro SISU. It doesn't stop the fact that SISU could indeed have made more of an effort to speak to people also, it doesn't in any way absolve them of their responsibility as custodians of the club. the thing is, though, being custodians of the club requires a different approach to looking out for the balance sheet above all else. Couple that with a brave new world where councils aren't allowed to support heritage and culture for the quality of life they give, but instead have to justify them on financial grounds, and we reach impasse.

Are ACL even wrong in their approach? I don't think so when it comes to rent figures and commercial deals; these are the times we live in, where council funding has to be justified. Look at some of the other things that are either closed down, or put in charitable trusts to keep going.

Does it mean owners as custodians rather than financial insitutions would undoubtedly be more appropriate for finding an answer that at least allows the catastrophe to be averted? I would say undoubtedly.

Does it mean the club, frankly, should not exist as is? I would say to that... undoubtedly.

So, choices moving forward? Either:

1) An acceptance wage bills need to be slashed radically, the club must be allowed to go into freefall for however long it takes to get to a stage where it can stabilise... the club must be allowed to go into freefall for however long it takes to get to a stage where benefactors would be willing to put their cash in with the expectation of no return, and cash lost;

2) Sell to other sharks who see the opposrtunity for a shit or bust, quick buck;

3) Hope and pray said benefactors as mentioned above actually have more cash than we ever dare to hope, and can take us over now;

4) Get the club saleable in some way, shape or form;

5) Let it fall until it dies;

6) Accept the status quo and see us continue to clin on in ever decreasing circles, getting slowly smaller and smaller until nobody cares when the plug is finally pulled.

Personally I'd say 2) and 6) are the ones to be avoided at all costs. I'd also say they're the ones most likely if it's a deal, ANY deal that's pushed upon the club. A deal that may avert a crisis short to medium term, but long term leaves us deep, deep in trouble.

One thing the current situation does wake people up to is whether the football club is important or not. Leave that any longer and leave the circles to continue to decrease... and it might just not be.

But why can they not remain at the Ricoh on a negotiated reduced rent agreement, and whilst this is not factually known, all press reports suggest ACL were prepared to talk and a figure of 400,000 broadly assumed, which lessens the tightness of the ever decreasing circle whilst plans for the long term are finalised- instead they ship out and accept paltry revenue streams from Northamptons inevitable reduced attendance. Apologies I do appreciate you trying to explain it to me...and I am not deliberately trying to appear belligerent I just dont get it- just doesnt seem like common sense to a humble fan which leaves such a fan to conclude they have a hidden agenda?
*Edit- Actually not so well hidden

 

[Grendel]

But why can they not remain at the Ricoh on a negotiated reduced rent agreement, and whilst this is not factually known, all press reports suggest ACL were prepared to talk and a figure of 400,000 broadly assumed, which lessens the tightness of the ever decreasing circle whilst plans for the long term are finalised- apologies I do appreciate you trying to explain it to me...and I am not deliberately trying to appear belligerent I just dont get it- just doesnt seem like common sense to a humble fan?

Lets at least get rid of one myth here - starving them of relatively modest investment will not alter the stance.

Ultimately the club has an unworkable business model and agreeing such a rent deal makes the club worthless.

So if the long term vision of building a stadium was there this makes perfect sense.

My view is they are going to do nothing for a year and see if that has been sufficient to close down ACL. Of not then two choices - closure or build the ground with the former being most likely.

 

[italiahorse]

Are you deliberately misreading?

So the plan you are on about does not depend on the new stadium.

You are Tim Fisher !!! Gotcha

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Lets at least get rid of one myth here - starving them of relatively modest investment will not alter the stance.

Ultimately the club has an unworkable business model and agreeing such a rent deal makes the club worthless.

So if the long term vision of building a stadium was there this makes perfect sense.

My view is they are going to do nothing for a year and see if that has been sufficient to close down ACL. Of not then two choices - closure or build the ground with the former being most likely.

So you agree then... distress ACL in the hope of Ricoh acquisition or close the football club down... so the hidden agenda is accepted?

 

[Samo]

Lets at least get rid of one myth here - starving them of relatively modest investment will not alter the stance.

Ultimately the club has an unworkable business model and agreeing such a rent deal makes the club worthless.

So if the long term vision of building a stadium was there this makes perfect sense.

My view is they are going to do nothing for a year and see if that has been sufficient to close down ACL. Of not then two choices - closure or build the ground with the former being most likely.[/QUOTE]

I have to say I agree with that.

 

[italiahorse]

Lets at least get rid of one myth here - starving them of relatively modest investment will not alter the stance.

Ultimately the club has an unworkable business model and agreeing such a rent deal makes the club worthless.

So if the long term vision of building a stadium was there this makes perfect sense.

My view is they are going to do nothing for a year and see if that has been sufficient to close down ACL. Of not then two choices - closure or build the ground with the former being most likely.

OMG ............. Can't take much more. Little man in a big world syndrome. Next thread.

 

[Grendel]

So you agree then... distress ACL in the hope of Ricoh acquisition or close the football club down... so the hidden agenda is accepted?

It's my opinion yes

 

[Nick]

OMG ............. Can't take much more. Little man in a big world syndrome. Next thread.

Why bother posting in the thread? If you don't agree, at least say why?

 

[Grendel]

OMG ............. Can't take much more. Little man in a big world syndrome. Next thread.

And there you go. I am told to try and present a more sensible and balanced post and then one of the usual idiots tries to ruin in by making a comment that is neither infomative or amusing.

 

[italiahorse]

Why bother posting in the thread? If you don't agree, at least say why?

The thread is about getting the parties together after the battle.
This jumped up little jerk keeps spouting his fan splitting offal.

Either chuck the idiot off or accept people will challenge his one side SISU chastising.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Lets at least get rid of one myth here - starving them of relatively modest investment will not alter the stance.

Ultimately the club has an unworkable business model and agreeing such a rent deal makes the club worthless.

So if the long term vision of building a stadium was there this makes perfect sense.

My view is they are going to do nothing for a year and see if that has been sufficient to close down ACL. Of not then two choices - closure or build the ground with the former being most likely.[/QUOTE]

I have to say I agree with that.

and against the backdrop of that ultimate unthinkable gun to the head strategy, SISU/OTIUM still find favour with some?
Sorry Grendel/NW... I just cannot get passed that and try as you might, you will not convince me of any other.
They have had a plan to acquire the Ricoh as cheap as possible from the get go- my opinion I accept- but as this unravels, and the acceptance as found above by Grendel and others that it's either ACL out via distress tactics or curtains for CCFC reinforces my opinion further still. They have played Russian Roulette with my football club in an effort to secure their own financial gain; what else would a hedge fund do I hear you cry? - you are right, I like many others perhaps have been naive- but its an emotional failing based on my life long love of CCFC. They have exploited that human weakness to this point and continue to do so with the ludicrous move to Northampton when there IS an alternative.

Yes I accept that ACL etal have had a part to play in this sorry affair.. but to once again to paraphrase Orwell.... "both sides are to blame, but some are more to blame than others".. and for me that is SISU.

 

[Moff]

This jumped up little jerk keeps spouting his fan splitting offal.

Either chuck the idiot off or accept people will challenge his one side SISU chastising.

How ironic :facepalm:

 

[letsallsingtogether]

But you keep on sprouting on about how they need the money from the pies to survive now you say they can survive with crowds of 2000-3000 for 5 years then IF they return to cov and will probably get 7000.
Now it is going to be a year to see if ACL go bust what happened to we are close to signing for a piece of land and have a 2nd and 3rd choice.

Lets at least get rid of one myth here - starving them of relatively modest investment will not alter the stance.

Ultimately the club has an unworkable business model and agreeing such a rent deal makes the club worthless.

So if the long term vision of building a stadium was there this makes perfect sense.

My view is they are going to do nothing for a year and see if that has been sufficient to close down ACL. Of not then two choices - closure or build the ground with the former being most likely.

 

[Nick]

The thread is about getting the parties together after the battle.
This jumped up little jerk keeps spouting his fan splitting offal.

Either chuck the idiot off or accept people will challenge his one side SISU chastising.

Have you any constructive comments?

 

[Grendel]

The thread is about getting the parties together after the battle.
This jumped up little jerk keeps spouting his fan splitting offal.

Either chuck the idiot off or accept people will challenge his one side SISU chastising.

Interesting coming from someone who really was a sisu worshipper.

Why not debate the point rather than make some not amusing point downs.

Poor at humour and poor at debating - what are you good at? Is there a point to you at all?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

and against the backdrop of that ultimate unthinkable gun to the head strategy, SISU/OTIUM still find favour with some?

But who is finding favour with them? I can think of maybe one, two posters. one has veen consistent all the way from their very beginning, and the other... well, if I were of the conspiracy theory vein, he posts exactly as I'd expect an ultra-pro ACL side to do so, to provoke fury at SISU

 

[hill83]

Interesting coming from someone who really was a sisu worshipper.

Why not debate the point rather than make some not amusing point downs.

Poor at humour and poor at debating - what are you good at? Is there a point to you at all?

And this ladies and gentlemen, is called 1-0.

 

[italiahorse]

Have you any constructive comments?

I have said many times what needs to happen in several threads.
I find we are just regurgitating the same old rubbish.
In this thread it's about making the peace. Not SISU propaganda regurgitated.

I know he keeps the board going but surely you have standards.

 

[Nick]

I have said many times what needs to happen in several threads.
I find we are just regurgitating the same old rubbish.
In this thread it's about making the peace. Not SISU propaganda regurgitated.

I know he keeps the board going but surely you have standards.

How is it sisu propaganda? I can't see anybody saying what they have done is right?

 

[hill83]

Sisu propaganda. Fucking hell. Go and have a sit down.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

But who is finding favour with them? I can think of maybe one, two posters. one has veen consistent all the way from their very beginning, and the other... well, if I were of the conspiracy theory vein, he posts exactly as I'd expect an ultra-pro ACL side to do so, to provoke fury at SISU

Empathy perhaps is a better definition..

Colours to mast time I think.... strategic fence sitting akin to a minister under the whip against his conscience seems to suit many .. its time to vote?

 

[Grendel]

I have said many times what needs to happen in several threads.
I find we are just regurgitating the same old rubbish.
In this thread it's about making the peace. Not SISU propaganda regurgitated.

I know he keeps the board going but surely you have standards.

What a curious individual you are. I am not sure saying they will close the club down is exactly sisu propaganda. I'm not sure what your accusation is. Are you suggesting I am not a genuine CCFC supporter?

 

[Samo]

And this ladies and gentlemen, is called 1-0.

This ladies and gentlemen is called an own goal. It's that kind of spiteful rhetoric that causes people to disregard his insightful posts.

 

[italiahorse]

How is it sisu propaganda? I can't see anybody saying what they have done is right?

Surely backing them to build a smaller stadium outside Coventry and supporting them in keeping us out of Coventry is wrong?
Surely challenging the few that do agree with this and give SISU something to hold on to is the right thing to do?

I reserve the right to comment on these people that are in the minority.
If you want to censor me then please feel free to remove me from the board.
To be honest we are all wasting our time fighting SISU since the administrator and FL let us down.

 

[hill83]

This ladies and gentlemen is called an own goal. It's that kind of spiteful rhetoric that causes people to disregard his insightful posts.

He gets it, he gives it. The comment in question made me laugh. So for me, 1-0.

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Surely backing them to build a smaller stadium outside Coventry and supporting them in keeping us out of Coventry is wrong?
Surely challenging the few that do agree with this and give SISU something to hold on to is the right thing to do?

I reserve the right to comment on these people that are in the minority.
If you want to censor me then please feel free to remove me from the board.
To be honest we are all wasting our time fighting SISU since the administrator and FL let us down.

Fight the good fight italia.....never surrender.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Empathy perhaps is a better definition..

Colours to mast time I think.... strategic fence sitting akin to a minister under the whip against his conscience seems to suit many .. its time to vote?

Empathy is very different to symnpathy.

Empathy in fact allows the ability to counter unhealthy opposition.

Without it, what hope?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Surely backing them to build a smaller stadium outside Coventry and supporting them in keeping us out of Coventry is wrong?

And who is doing either of those things?

 

[ohitsaidwalker king power]

Empathy is very different to symnpathy.

Empathy in fact allows the ability to counter unhealthy opposition.

Without it, what hope?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Sisu propaganda. Fucking hell. Go and have a sit down.

It's certainly interesting SISU propaganda that starts by saying our football club owned for the purpose of making money is wrong, full stop.

 

[Nick]

Surely backing them to build a smaller stadium outside Coventry and supporting them in keeping us out of Coventry is wrong?
Surely challenging the few that do agree with this and give SISU something to hold on to is the right thing to do?

I reserve the right to comment on these people that are in the minority.
If you want to censor me then please feel free to remove me from the board.
To be honest we are all wasting our time fighting SISU since the administrator and FL let us down.

I don't want to censor anybody but if you can't reply properly then what is the point? People have gone to the effort to put their point across in detail, whether you agree or not. I don't think anybody backs them, more like trying to see their reasoning.

 

[Grendel]

Surely backing them to build a smaller stadium outside Coventry and supporting them in keeping us out of Coventry is wrong?
Surely challenging the few that do agree with this and give SISU something to hold on to is the right thing to do?

I reserve the right to comment on these people that are in the minority.
If you want to censor me then please feel free to remove me from the board.
To be honest we are all wasting our time fighting SISU since the administrator and FL let us down.

So you don't believe in censorship and therefore one assumes holds up the notion of democracy and free speech.

How does that sit with your desire to have me thrown off the forum as you don't agree with my viewpoint?

 

[italiahorse]

I don't want to censor anybody but if you can't reply properly then what is the point? People have gone to the effort to put their point across in detail, whether you agree or not. I don't think anybody backs them, more like trying to see their reasoning.

Your probably right.
They go to great detail over and over again.
I have tried to put the alternative view but it becomes tedious in the end doing it over and over is a waste of time and effort.
It's easier, for one or two people, to shoot them down as they are past reasoning.
Every thread ends up the same regardless how it starts and it's usually the same few that do that.

This will continue until the team are back in Coventry and we can talk football. Unfortunately most of us will be gone by the time any SISU plan completes.