Sky Blues administrator: Still time for warring parties to strike up a deal (10 Viewers)

skybluepm2

Well-Known Member
Coventry City's administrator says he has found no evidence of any transfer of players in his investigation, the Telegraph can reveal.

Paul Appleton has also revealed the club's owners and Ricoh Arena bosses could belatedly still come together to agree a Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA).

It is claimed a deal could theoretically be used to mount a case that the Football League should re-instate the ten points it deducted from the Sky Blues' Division One campaign .

The administrator for Coventry City FC Ltd - the company in administration since March - was speaking to the Telegraph on the eve of a deadline for him to report to the government's business department (BIS).

He is unable to disclose any of the contents of his highly confidential report into the conduct of all the club's directors and shadow directors since March 2010.

CCFC Ltd creditor Arena Coventry Limited, the part council owned Ricoh company, MP Bob Ainsworth, and fans hostile to the club's owners Otium and Sisu, hope an investigation will reveal an allegedly improper transfer of players' contracts between different CCFC companies.

The Football League had accepted to the Telegraph it made "administrative errors" - though not illegal - in registering players in CCFC Holdings Ltd when they ought to have been in CCFC Ltd where the League's crucial "golden share" had rested.

CCFC Ltd accounts for 2010 and 2011 appeared to record the players were in CCFC Ltd, despite the club's insistence the players' contracts were in Holdings.

But Mr Appleton said: "I've found no evidence of any physical transfer of assets thus far.

"All the current players' contracts we've seen since the date of the administration are in Holdings."

He said he could not say if he had seen all players' contracts.

Mr Appleton revealed the company will enter liquidation next week, but that will only be the start of a potentially long process.

He said: "It's unlikely to go on longer than a year, but I'm not going to put a time limit on it."

Any liquidator has some extra powers above an administrator to investigate directors' conduct - examining any wrongful or fraudulent trading - before deciding on the best financial outcome for creditors.

Although Mr Appleton's findings of his report into directors' conduct will remain confidential - unless BIS takes court action to disqualify any director - he will file a final report to creditors next week which will be publicly available through Companies House. He will file another report when he completes liquidation.

But, crucially, he said during the liquidation process creditors could still agree a CVA to bring the company out of liquidation.

The League deducted the 10 points on August 2 because ACL had that day refused to sign up to Mr Appleton's CVA proposals.

The League has since told the Telegraph the points would not be re-instated. But its rules give its board wide-ranging "discretion".

The League on August 2 transferred its crucial golden share to Sisu firm Otium after Mr Appleton sold to it the rights and title to the assets in CCFC Ltd minus the players in Holdings - with the exception of the rental lease for playing at the Ricoh.

The League did so on condition Otium accepted the ten point penalty and ensured ACL still receives in liquidation the £595,000 it would have received had the CVA been agreed.

It has led some fans to question what ACL had to gain from depriving the club of ten points.

ACL says accepting the CVA would have legitimised a process it and fans had no faith in - and it has called for an independent liquidator to investigate.

HM Customs and Revenue, as a creditor owed money relating to a CCFC group VAT liability, also rejected the CVA - but did not have the power to vote it down alone.

Mr Appleton has said a sale to Otium for £1.5million was the only realistic option available in the best interests of creditors.

Other bids, including from US investor Preston Haskell IV, would have resulted in far less money going back to ACL to cover the club's non-payment of rent and the cancellation of the lease and licence to play at the Ricoh.

The club put CCFC Ltd into administration and appointed Mr Appleton after ACL filed for administration in the High Court hoping to enforce their chosen administrator, Brendan Guilfoyle.

That event also caused the loss of ten League points last season.
 

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
£.15M? Surely, PH4 and ACL could have sat down before and worked something out?
 

skybluepm2

Well-Known Member
Nothing will come of this. No CVA will be agreed now and even if it did, we wouldn't have any chance of regaining the 10 points which have been unjustly stolen from the team and fans. Imagine the uproar from the rest of the League! The FL would come under even more spotlight than they have done already!

' "All the current players' contracts we've seen since the date of the administration are in Holdings."

He said he could not say if he had seen all players' contracts. '

This is they key part for me. What a useless twat this guy is. He's been 'investigating' since March and has found absolutely fuck all! Probably still looking for the golden share!!

Of course all of the contracts SINCE administration are in Holdings you muppet, after a certain date Fisher will have ensured they all were. What about prior to administration, which is what you were actually tasked with investigating?!

Just take your money and fuck off Appleton you've done more than enough damage. 'officer of the court' my arse!
 

italiahorse

Well-Known Member
Nothing will come of this. No CVA will be agreed now and even if it did, we wouldn't have any chance of regaining the 10 points which have been unjustly stolen from the team and fans. Imagine the uproar from the rest of the League! The FL would come under even more spotlight than they have done already!

' "All the current players' contracts we've seen since the date of the administration are in Holdings."

He said he could not say if he had seen all players' contracts. '

This is they key part for me. What a useless twat this guy is. He's been 'investigating' since March and has found absolutely fuck all! Probably still looking for the golden share!!

Of course all of the contracts SINCE administration are in Holdings you muppet, after a certain date Fisher will have ensured they all were. What about prior to administration, which is what you were actually tasked with investigating?!

Just take your money and fuck off Appleton you've done more than enough damage. 'officer of the court' my arse!

Your Comments look about right.

I would have thought his investigation would go back to see when ALL the players, at the time he took over, actually transferred from Ltd to Holdings.
To not know about ALL the players and not go back to the last published accounts date seems a major flaw here.
At the very least it would get the monkey off SISU's back.
 

Nick

Administrator
So acl get the same money whether they agree the cva or not? Why would people be calling on then to reject it?
 

Otis

Well-Known Member
Nothing will come of this. No CVA will be agreed now and even if it did, we wouldn't have any chance of regaining the 10 points which have been unjustly stolen from the team and fans. Imagine the uproar from the rest of the League! The FL would come under even more spotlight than they have done already!

' "All the current players' contracts we've seen since the date of the administration are in Holdings."

He said he could not say if he had seen all players' contracts. '

This is they key part for me. What a useless twat this guy is. He's been 'investigating' since March and has found absolutely fuck all! Probably still looking for the golden share!!

Of course all of the contracts SINCE administration are in Holdings you muppet, after a certain date Fisher will have ensured they all were. What about prior to administration, which is what you were actually tasked with investigating?!

Just take your money and fuck off Appleton you've done more than enough damage. 'officer of the court' my arse!

That had me smiling too, the bit about the contracts since administration. What a dumb thing to say. Talk about stating the bleedin obvious!
 

skybluepm2

Well-Known Member
ACL - Get on phone to SISU offer them a rental deal and the stadium in the next 10 years.
SISU - Agree with ACL a deal .
ACL - If deal is not possible tell us what was offered
SISU - Tell us why you turned it down.

Exactly Italia! Where are all the people who want to have 'the sky blues playing in their rightful home of the Ricoh arena', the people who have offered to publicly act as a mediator in a meeting between all parties.

A neutral adjudication, fully minuted which can be made for the public to view (apart from the commercial details which can be hidden). What have they got to hide (or to lose for that matter)? Perhaps only then we would see who comes up with the most bullshit! I would hazard a guess that it'd be Scrotium by a country mile although that's not to say that ACL won't have a couple of biggies up their sleeve. Where are they anyway? Probably still licking their wounds after realising that rejecting the CVA was the most pointless move in history..as well as costing them hundreds of thousands of pounds!

All of this is out of the fans control. The only people who can get us out of this mess are the people who put us in it. They owe us that much surely!
 

Nick

Administrator
Doesn't seem any point now. But then what d I know on this :)

Plus , do it for the fans and lets have arguments about getting the points back.

It would be a start though unless there are other implications accepting the cva has but to most people if they are getting paid either way and care about the club like they say they would accept.
 

Godiva

Well-Known Member
So acl get the same money whether they agree the cva or not? Why would people be calling on then to reject it?

This is old news - FL said that it was one of the conditions to award the GS to Otium.
'People' wanted it rejected as it could lead to an indepth investigation. But as sisu are used to utilize the law to their advantage they will have done everything by the book. This is a carefully thought out plan to break the Ricoh lease. It's not a random decision.
I will be amazed if any investigation will find anything illegal.
 
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Godiva

Well-Known Member
ACL - Get on phone to SISU offer them a rental deal and the stadium in the next 10 years.
SISU - Agree with ACL a deal .
ACL - If deal is not possible tell us what was offered
SISU - Tell us why you turned it down.

Problem is that sisu do not want to be tied to the Ricoh for 10 years.
If the club is ever to play there again it will be when ACL is part of the SBS&L group.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
I think you have to read what is said very carefully ....... often with all sides, including Appleton, it how it is said or what is not said that is important.

Article increases the pressure on ACL it would seem, whilst the FL gets a polite slap on the wrist and SISU/CCFC portrayed more as the victim (btw who originated the paperwork submitted to FL to be filed in error?)

I thought we got the latest 10 points because we entered the season without a CVA? how does that change even if we do a a CVA now - I hope it does but just do not see it.

Where is/was the incentive for ACL to enter into a new CVA, it wont get the club back to the Ricoh? They get the same whether the CVA accepted or not so if they disagree with the process and how the administration has been done there was no pressure to accept/reason the CVA. Did that insistence by the FL help or hinder the solution ? ACL- whether fans like it or not have to put ACL not CCFC first - that is just business. I have a feeling that ACL are in the process of moving on from CCFC at the moment although door still open, certainly moving on from CCFC as anchor tenant.

If the error was that players were registered wrongly to CCFC H then the correction of the error is surely to re- register all players to CCFC Ltd not to compound it by taking the share away. So why hasnt Appleton attacked the administration from that angle? Why hasnt he demanded that the error be corrected - the contracts/registrations follow the share not the other way round

"I've found no evidence of any physical transfer of assets thus far.

All the current players' contracts we've seen since the date of the administration are in Holdings."
I suspect he wont on that basis, because in my opinion the registrations were registered " in error" well before that with CCFCH

So let me get this straight- CCFC Ltd has no assets, other than a lease no one wants, £1.5m from otium to mainly pay Appleton, an option that cant be activated because CCFC owe ACL rent.............. it no longer has any rights to trade in the Football League (therefore no goodwill) and massive quantified debts........... the administration actions are not going to be challenged in court it would seem......... and it could take a year to liquidate? Why? Does CCFC Ltd still existing hold up or assist any forward planning for SISU or ACL?

Got to be honest I am heartily fed up of all the shenanigans ....... what happened in the past is not going to change, the FL wont change because to do so makes them look even more inept, SISU/CCFC wont change anything simply not what they want to happen because they have split CCFC from the Ricoh lease, ACL wont change what went on because they cant and to accept the CVA or a new CVA would imply they accept what has gone on and they do not. Everyone knows all that, including Appleton and the CT so these reports achieve?

Time to draw line under it all isnt it? ...... time for Mr Appleton to put matters to bed sooner rather than later..... then can ACL confirm they will talk with CCFC about a new rent deal, time for TF/JS/CCFC to pick the phone up and ask for a new rent deal (or do they want one at all so wont?) If not both/each has to say why not? No more careful words in statements please. No more hiding behind clever legal terms. No one including TF wants CCFC at the Sixfields.

I wouldnt expect any great concessions to CCFC but I would expect a low rent possibly lower than at Sixfields. Will rights to other income simply handed over - I doubt it why should they? - they will have to be bought.

The concern I have is we are still in the original position ACL will offer a rent (thats all they can offer) but SISU want ownership (preferably freehold). I do not think ownership is on the table either from ACL or the council at this time. Deadlock it seems to me unless CCFC come back as a tenant and work towards buying ownership of income streams/ ACL /freehold....... just do not see SISU going for that because it means compromising on what they have been doing

just my opinions..........

We want our club back in Coventry.....
 
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letsallsingtogether

Well-Known Member
Because they don't?
sisu made it clear they would not play at the ricoh during the forums therefore they have lost that revenue.therefore as a company they would surly have liked other owners.
Appleton in turn chose the company he thought was best for the creditor (ACL) Sorry whole mess just doesn't stake up

So acl get the same money whether they agree the cva or not? Why would people be calling on then to reject it?
 

lewys33

Well-Known Member
I hate sisu.I hate Otium. I hate everything they stand for. But I cannot stand up for ACL either. I know what Paul Appleton has said in that article proves nothing and you could fit a bus through several holes in his statement ...... However, ACL now need to table an offer, straight to CCFC Holdings and they NEED to talk. Forget the past, forget everything. I would even be prepared for ACL to sell the Ricoh to them IF they were selling with a clause which states it must remain in whatever company holds the golden share for the football club (that way they cannot do this again).

I'm fed up of all of this. Fed up of talking about it. Fed up of thinking about it. There is nothing else to do now apart from talk, and let the fans know what is going on. Be transparent. Otherwise we are all left bickering without any facts. I would gain a lot more respect for Joy etc. if they did this.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Time to draw line under it all isnt it? ...... time for Mr Appleton to put matters to bed sooner rather than later..... then can ACL confirm they will talk with CCFC about a new rent deal, time for TF/JS/CCFC to pick the phone up and ask for a new rent deal (or do they want one at all so wont?) If not both/each has to say why not? No more careful words in statements please. No more hiding behind clever legal terms. No one including TF wants CCFC at the Sixfields.

Please God no more statements!
 

crowsnest

Well-Known Member
I thought we got the latest 10 points because we entered the season without a CVA? how does that change even if we do a a CVA now - I hope it does but just do not see it.

The points deduction was for coming out of administration not agreeing a CVA, nothing to do with the start of the season.
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Just a thought but if ACL have alternatives, or are confident of their immediate future why do ACL have to make any offer? ACL was never set up to represent or act for the fans.

Is it a similar situation to the Alan Higgs Centre?, it was the club that approached them not the other way round....................

Do CCFC/SISU want to come back to the Ricoh as tenants?
 
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oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
The points deduction was for coming out of administration not agreeing a CVA, nothing to do with the start of the season.

except that they havent come out of administration yet
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Just a thought but if ACL have alternatives, or are confident of their immediate future why do ACL have to make any offer? ACL was never set up to represent or act for the fans.

I know it's a rhetorical ;) but yes, no reason whatsoever.

Does show the folly of the whole setup though, where all 'sides' are quite rightly acting in their own interests.

Unfortunately those interests aren't necessarily ours!
 

Godiva

Well-Known Member
If the error was that players were registered wrongly to CCFC H then the correction of the error is surely to re- register all players to CCFC Ltd not to compound it by taking the share away. So why hasnt Appleton attacked the administration from that angle? Why hasnt he demanded that the error be corrected - the contracts/registrations follow the share not the other way round


But is it Appeltons responsibility to uphold the rules and regulations of the FL?

Another question - when will ACL receive their £500k+? Will it happen when limited goes into liquidation or when liquidation is finalized? In other words - is Appelton saying to ACL - sign now and get your money now, or don't sign and expect your money in a year or so?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
I think you have to read what is said very carefully ....... often with all sides, including Appleton, it how it is said or what is not said that is important.

Article increases the pressure on ACL it would seem, whilst the FL gets a polite slap on the wrist and SISU/CCFC portrayed more as the victim (btw who originated the paperwork submitted to FL to be filed in error?)

I thought we got the latest 10 points because we entered the season without a CVA? how does that change even if we do a a CVA now - I hope it does but just do not see it.

Where is/was the incentive for ACL to enter into a new CVA, it wont get the club back to the Ricoh? They get the same whether the CVA accepted or not so if they disagree with the process and how the administration has been done there was no pressure to accept/reason the CVA. Did that insistence by the FL help or hinder the solution ? ACL- whether fans like it or not have to put ACL not CCFC first - that is just business. I have a feeling that ACL are in the process of moving on from CCFC at the moment although door still open, certainly moving on from CCFC as anchor tenant.

If the error was that players were registered wrongly to CCFC H then the correction of the error is surely to re- register all players to CCFC Ltd not to compound it by taking the share away. So why hasnt Appleton attacked the administration from that angle? Why hasnt he demanded that the error be corrected - the contracts/registrations follow the share not the other way round

"I've found no evidence of any physical transfer of assets thus far.

All the current players' contracts we've seen since the date of the administration are in Holdings."
I suspect he wont on that basis, because in my opinion the registrations were registered " in error" well before that with CCFCH

So let me get this straight- CCFC Ltd has no assets, other than a lease no one wants, £1.5m from otium to mainly pay Appleton, an option that cant be activated because CCFC owe ACL rent.............. it no longer has any rights to trade in the Football League (therefore no goodwill) and massive quantified debts........... the administration actions are not going to be challenged in court it would seem......... and it could take a year to liquidate? Why? Does CCFC Ltd still existing hold up or assist any forward planning for SISU or ACL?

Got to be honest I am heartily fed up of all the shenanigans ....... what happened in the past is not going to change, the FL wont change because to do so makes them look even more inept, SISU/CCFC wont change anything simply not what they want to happen because they have split CCFC from the Ricoh lease, ACL wont change what went on because they cant and to accept the CVA or a new CVA would imply they accept what has gone on and they do not. Everyone knows all that, including Appleton and the CT so these reports achieve?

Time to draw line under it all isnt it? ...... time for Mr Appleton to put matters to bed sooner rather than later..... then can ACL confirm they will talk with CCFC about a new rent deal, time for TF/JS/CCFC to pick the phone up and ask for a new rent deal (or do they want one at all so wont?) If not both/each has to say why not? No more careful words in statements please. No more hiding behind clever legal terms. No one including TF wants CCFC at the Sixfields.

I wouldnt expect any great concessions to CCFC but I would expect a low rent possibly lower than at Sixfields. Will rights to other income simply handed over - I doubt it why should they? - they will have to be bought.

The concern I have is we are still in the original position ACL will offer a rent (thats all they can offer) but SISU want ownership (preferably freehold). I do not think ownership is on the table either from ACL or the council at this time. Deadlock it seems to me unless CCFC come back as a tenant and work towards buying ownership of income streams/ ACL /freehold....... just do not see SISU going for that because it means compromising on what they have been doing

just my opinions..........

We want our club back in Coventry.....

Good post. The last 12 months or more have achieved nothing more than to break the rent agreement (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).

The biggest beneficiary is Appleton.
 

sky blue john

Well-Known Member
So if Appleton is only prepared to mention players in Holdings from start of administration process !!!!
Why did he make a big thing of going back to year dot of Ccfc's history ?
 

crowsnest

Well-Known Member
Just a thought but if ACL have alternatives, or are confident of their immediate future why do ACL have to make any offer? ACL was never set up to represent or act for the fans.

Is it a similar situation to the Alan Higgs Centre?, it was the club that approached them not the other way round....................

Do CCFC/SISU want to come back to the Ricoh as tenants?

Strange that ACL used the fans as a reason to reject the CVA

Do ACL want us back, they now have the car boot sale every Sunday!
 

spwaverley4916

Active Member
the sale was always going to go to a company linked with SISU - they were the only one who knew what was 'held' by LTD. nothing else will come of this, the 10 points have gone and the only benefit of ACL actually striking a deal will mean that CCFC ltd will not go into liquidation. and what good will that be they are a defunct company with no assets
 

thaiskyblue

New Member
But is it Appeltons responsibility to uphold the rules and regulations of the FL?

Another question - when will ACL receive their £500k+? Will it happen when limited goes into liquidation or when liquidation is finalized? In other words - is Appelton saying to ACL - sign now and get your money now, or don't sign and expect your money in a year or so?
does he care he's raking it in, any one where you get an application form ?
 

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
But is it Appeltons responsibility to uphold the rules and regulations of the FL?

Another question - when will ACL receive their £500k+? Will it happen when limited goes into liquidation or when liquidation is finalized? In other words - is Appelton saying to ACL - sign now and get your money now, or don't sign and expect your money in a year or so?

well as the ability to operate as a football trade in the FL is dependent on the share you might think that he would need to maximise value for the company that he is appointed to wouldnt you?

as far as the £500k goes who knows - SISU do not have a good record of paying ACL do they. Appleton is suggesting the potential for a new CVA - ACL are due their money either way ....... maybe in a years time when liquidation might occur ?:thinking about:perhaps it is thought that will restrict ACL cashflow? The purpose of which would be ? Such things are usually paid in instalments in liquidations. If it was a term of Otium getting the share then surely a payment plan was insisted on by the FL? (am betting it wasnt)

A recurring theme has always been how long it takes things to be done............. who does that suit?
 

crowsnest

Well-Known Member
But is it Appeltons responsibility to uphold the rules and regulations of the FL?

Another question - when will ACL receive their £500k+? Will it happen when limited goes into liquidation or when liquidation is finalized? In other words - is Appelton saying to ACL - sign now and get your money now, or don't sign and expect your money in a year or so?

Must be a mistake about ACL receiving money in the CT article.

ACL received nothing from the administration, nor via the Football League.
 

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