Fans fighting outside sixfields (24 Viewers)

[thaiskyblue]

well written some points i don't agree with it all , but a good read. ( sorry if i sound like a teacher ).

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

well written some points i don't agree with it all , but a good read. ( sorry if i sound like a teacher ).

Call it a literate stream of consciousness

 

[Ashdown1]

Why do people keep talking about SISU's plan and how they will take the club forward and stem losses. There is no plan or at least only the central aim of busting ACL and forcing them to sell the Arena to the hedge fund at a knock down price, Seppalla has made this fairly clear. This is now a single minded war of attrition that will only be resolved when either ACL start to make significant losses and the CCC cave in or SISU's investment funds dry up or protest at throwing £4 million a year at a loss making football club.

I would prefer fans didn't give any credence to their blatantly immoral ambitions by travelling to Northampton but in the grand scheme of things 1700 supporters makes very little difference to the overall finances, it's not worth falling out about with other City fans. Sooner or later the hedge fund will shore up losses by selling players, that's for sure and the squad is weak enough anyway, this whole disaster will all implode if ACL do not give in, but then why the fuck should they??!!

I'm sure thousands of Coventrians are standing back now from this and with every week they and their families become a little more disenfranchised with their own club and the sport in general, if this did continue for 3-5 years I hope SISU or any other investors wouldn't expect everyone to come flocking back because it might be just too late by then.

 

[Hobo]

I've said often enough since the McGinnity board sold the family silver rather than take the hit and administration, that the steady inevitable circle of decline is worse to me than the short sharp shock of death and rebirth. One thing's for sure now, we're at a stage where things have been brought to a head one way or another, and frankly I think this is better full-stop than more and more steady decline and firefighting, in ever decreasing circles.

So I can live with the death of the club. Don't want it, but I can live with it. It's sticking heads in sand to deny this is a very real possibility however, and also sticking heads in sand to suggest that it's anything other than us not giving money that ultimately causes this. frankly, the sooner football becomes aware it can't rely on blind loyalty of fans the better, but that also needs a wider commitment to stop buying Sky, stop funding the ridiculous scenarios where it's top heavy with money going majorly to the top flight, meaning countless owners play with countless clubs who've been here long before, in the hope they can sneak the promotion for that top heavy boost to income, then do a runner ASAP.

But let's be open about this instead of hiding behind excuses that those going are the ones killing the club because they're not. The sooner we stop turning on soft and meaningless targets the better, because the conclusion of this will see a team back in Coventry at some point, and that team will need you, me, Adam Richman, Bob Carolgees whoever to want to go and see the team, so let's make it a more unpleasant experience than it is already by our own actions!



I'll take this at a slight digression, i'm really not sure it's about making it profitable. Explaining using an example, I'll suggest a company I worked for who were bought out for £9mil. the four owners all split that between them, and were quite happy(!) The company had made a loss all its life however, and indeed the loss was increasing year on year. What the new owners had bought was the awareness of the brand, the presence in the market... now this was probably what SISU were looking at originally. Pay off the money owed on best, buy in Dann, Fox, Eastwood et al and hope the increased presence in the market means someone pays them more for the club.

I'd suggest SISU would be quite happy to have the club bought for cash, with an ability for it to service its remaining debts. not to offset them for a future date, not to write some down, not to have contingent liabilities payable on promotion etc. etc. The discourse around this is all wrong. Some of this is (wilfully?) misleading from our owners of course... Having failed with that plan however, there's an alternative way to look at it. Pull the club back to a position where it doesn't haemorage money and it becomes a far more saleable proposition. yes, that includes sorting the Ricoh issue and yes, that includes pulling back the playing budget. In theory(!) however, that doesn't have to mean we slide and slide. I appreciate now is the wrong time to point this out but our average crowds were third(?) highest in this division last season. By definition, if all is equal, that gives us a competitive advantage over most teams in this division, as that competitive advantage comes, gates rise, and so on... but to take advantage of these gates, like it or not you need what goes with it, else you're fighting with the teams who have the lowest average gates, but with the expectation from fans of a playing budget befitting the average attendance. That just doesn't work, and so you cut the budget, the team slips, gates slide... we're back to that ever decreasing circle. The way out of that is to do something so you hold that natural competitive advantage again.

What a ground also gives you is an asset on the books, which can raise your sale price. own nothing, and nobody will buy you apart from... somebody like SISU. And if it's selling from SISU to SISU Mk 2 that's going to delay the inevitable.

(Now of course is the time for the Frankie Muniz/Brian McFadden/Eddie Jordan dream team to come forward!)

It then depends what you want from a club. take away the Northants issue (yes, yes I know!) but certain things around this club buy into what I want my club to be! In my formative years I remember reading an article in Shoot! by Mark Hately, said he joined Coventry as a youth because they were known for being friendly, known for giving players a chance. This was my identity with the team, and this is something that has slowly come back. Amongst all the shit, one of the surprising things to me is that SISU have kept (and seem willing to keep) funding the academy. If I were a ruthless investment fund looking to turn the club around quickly, it'd have been one of the first things I'd have culled! An academy only pays its way over time, if you're lucky, so the expense of keeping it open probably doesn't look good on the balance sheet short term, especially as players from it have no monetary value as assets on the books. the fact it's still here (and they make moves to repair damage with the Higgs Centre rather than winding it up) does hint at a long term commitment. Surprising, but true.

But... that has to be funded too. What I'd assume, reducing it to base finances, is they'd aim for an upscaling of Crewe, where the occasional player sale funds the costs. Where that fits into an investment fund like SISU I do find curious and yes, this is the question I'd like nswering as although it's logical, and a reasonable approach for a football club it doesn't tally with what I'd expect from them. maybe I'm wrong? Maybe they are in it for the long haul, it'd be nice to have it explained how it benefits them to be in it for the long haul however. I can see why it's possibly bad form to explain why our club benefits them, but it might be useful in this instance, as not explaining gives rise to worst case scenario.

Anyway, I've rambled and digressed but increasing income streams isn't surprising in a grand scheme of how to make a club profitable. Won't make the difference by itself of course, you also need to cut costs elsewhere (wages!) and long term that's where an academy comes in useful of course.

I'd argue the club can get to a position where it's competitive, and solvent. Question is, would the fans be happy with this, or would they demand some cash spunked on players to give it a go? Another formative memory is we'd just sacked Don Mackay, narrowly survived under Curtis and Sillett, and people were writing into the paper complaining we weren't trying to sign Bryan Robson! Bearing in mind he was England captain and playing for the richest club in England, not surprising!What we've been hamstrung by, for years, is the ratcheting up of debt and selling off of assets means we have no way to sink naturally to our base level, where we're set to sink to is far below that... but fan expectation has delivered us an unholy mess of trying to compete 'at our level' in a cut price way. So we get our big name player, shame it's Tim Sherwood!

I'd rather have an ambitious but realistic club myself than one determined to push itself over the brink, surely the past few years have taught us that?

Whether that tallies with the reason for SISU to exist here I'm not convinced, but for whatever reason they are making noises in that respect. The proof will, of course, be in the pudding. What I can say is it's their responsibility to deliver the tangible evidence to back up their rhetoric. I'd be open minded enough however that if they do (as per the academy still being here) to accept my assumptions were wrong. Stay in the entrenched position at all costs and that buys into the entire rhetoric around this, where the financial protagonists are indeed all entrenched!

I suspect I've digressed, but I'm bored myself now and can't be bothered to delete this having written it

Wow, at last a fan of my own heart....a club that is realistic and lives within its own means!

Do you support Coventry because of regional identity or because you expect them to sweep up the trophies? Option 2 makes you a Man Utd fan!

Teams I admire at the moment Swansea, Norwich (I can remember us both topping the Premier league in its first season approaching Christmas), Doncaster, Bournemouth, and CREWE.

Identity: regional, football/style of play, youth policy, budget control, transparent.

I have just added Arsenal to the list.

I have been in all those grounds but not always to see Coventry.

SiSU have no football DNA. If they liquidate us I could transpose my faith to a Phoenix club with Sky Blue DNA, SISU cannot beat me.

 

[theferret]

I would prefer fans didn't give any credence to their blatantly immoral ambitions by travelling to Northampton but in the grand scheme of things 1700 supporters makes very little difference to the overall finances, it's not worth falling out about with other City fans. Sooner or later the hedge fund will shore up losses by selling players, that's for sure and the squad is weak enough anyway, this whole disaster will all implode if ACL do not give in, but then why the fuck should they??!!

This is a very good point, and one that is forgotten. SISU can easily make up for any shortfall in their finances by offloading the likes of Wilson, Christie, Fleck and Thomas in January, so they have got that up their sleeve if they need it. Given that fact, and also that you do not want to see a sale, realistically what you suggest we do?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

This is a very good point, and one that is forgotten. SISU can easily make up for any shortfall in their finances by offloading the likes of Wilson, Christie, Fleck and Thomas in January, so they have got that up their sleeve if they need it. Given that fact, and also that you do not want to see a sale, realistically what you suggest we do?

FWIW, the other surprising thing for a club looking to the short term, is their signing players to longer contracts.

Ah but it's to increase their sale value! I hear you cry... but didn't work for David Bell.

It doesn't say they will fund for the long term, but somebody has had to commit to funding the contracts now.

 

[theferret]

FWIW, the other surprising thing for a club looking to the short term, is their signing players to longer contracts.

Ah but it's to increase their sale value! I hear you cry... but didn't work for David Bell.

It doesn't say they will fund for the long term, but somebody has had to commit to funding the contracts now.

It is somewhat counter-intuitive, given that some are adamant that the boycott is hurting, that they did not offload anyone and are extending the contracts of key players. If we get to the end of the next transfer window not having offloaded any players of value, then it would suggest to me at least that they are serious about funding losses for the foreseeable future. What other conclusion could you draw? It's a worrying thought.

 

[Ashdown1]

I haven't got the answers 'Ferret'. It's a stalemate, I and many others would have more sympathy for SISU if they hadn't got such a ruthless reputation as a hedge fund and were more transparent with communications and background and that in pairing them with the Arena they could guarantee that the footfall from CCFC fans would be used to benefit the club. For me their biggest mistakes have been the 'Management charges' and other fees levied against the club already, that was the breaking point !

 

[Covstu]

So if that happened then we move on and reform, simples, being held to ransom by sisu .play them at their own game.

You talk about SISU losing the clubs history but you are prepared to scrap it and start again yourself?? Double standards??

 

[Ashdown1]

It is somewhat counter-intuitive, given that some are adamant that the boycott is hurting, that they did not offload anyone and are extending the contracts of key players. If we get to the end of the next transfer window not having offloaded any players of value, then it would suggest to me at least that they are serious about funding losses for the foreseeable future. What other conclusion could you draw? It's a worrying thought.

I would suggest that the boycott will be hurting whatever their short term actions and PR, another 5000 bums on seats at home games would be worth circa £100,000 per game !!

 

[valiant15]

Maybe they've decided to fund the losses this season regardless. If they can con the council Into giving them the Ricoh for next to nothing and it comes off then their gamble will have payed off.

It would appear though that acl/council are not going to budge.

 

[thaiskyblue]

You talk about SISU losing the clubs history but you are prepared to scrap it and start again yourself?? Double standards??[/QUOTE
sisu have shown no respect for this clubs past , i don't think they even care about it's future. starting again if they carry out their vile threats will be the only option.

 

[GaryPendrysEyes]

Why do people keep talking about SISU's plan and how they will take the club forward and stem losses. There is no plan or at least only the central aim of busting ACL and forcing them to sell the Arena to the hedge fund at a knock down price, Seppalla has made this fairly clear. This is now a single minded war of attrition that will only be resolved when either ACL start to make significant losses and the CCC cave in or SISU's investment funds dry up or protest at throwing £4 million a year at a loss making football club.

I would prefer fans didn't give any credence to their blatantly immoral ambitions by travelling to Northampton but in the grand scheme of things 1700 supporters makes very little difference to the overall finances, it's not worth falling out about with other City fans. Sooner or later the hedge fund will shore up losses by selling players, that's for sure and the squad is weak enough anyway, this whole disaster will all implode if ACL do not give in, but then why the fuck should they??!!

I'm sure thousands of Coventrians are standing back now from this and with every week they and their families become a little more disenfranchised with their own club and the sport in general, if this did continue for 3-5 years I hope SISU or any other investors wouldn't expect everyone to come flocking back because it might be just too late by then.

This.

 

[Mrpipes]

Didn't see the red and green myself , it was my idea that got shot down in the first place , but then again I'm one of those tyres of people , I post on Gmk so am now instantly ignored

I think the time has come for a mass protest that everyone can get behind - something like the march in the summer which brought everyone together.

No idea what that could be though.

As an aside, I saw a couple of people with red and green bar scarves today. I like that idea, although I know some people are dismissive of it. I would happily buy a job lot and shift them online at cost if I thought people would buy them.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Don't you need to know 'exactly' what he says before you condemn a whole website community?

I belong/have belonged to a raft of websites over the years where the Moderator has appointed himself judge, jury and executioner and the status of God and has ruined what was otherwise a half decent website. From what was said, it sounds like this was just another example but if you know differently, please give us the benefit of your knowledge of this particular situation.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Correct but it suits the Agenda of some to make it look like a real fight not one punch thrown I believe just a lot of swearing a bit like on here on a daily basis.

We all need to grow up but the anger and hurt gets more every day.

Massively blow out of proportion.

No violence just arguments and bags of abuse to one another.

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Tried that they are immune but they also see the point we on the hill are trying to make but as I say to them they haven't got the same sort of passion.

We want what we feel is right for the club in the short and long term as well as supporting the team hence away games only.

They just want to watch the city and don't care what happens till it's too late.

could you slip a reality pill into their pint, (joking ).

 

[Travs]

I'd like to set the record straight with what actually happened, as I was the guy in question who came out of the ground and got involved. I left the ground on the final whistle, and was subjected to a few boos and unsavoury comments from those on the hill.... Feeling rather aggrieved at our poor performance, I charged up the verge and invited them to 'say it to my face'...... I was rounded on by four guys who accused me of being a @@@@ing SISU scab and told me I was killing the club. I can't remember my exact words but they were told exactly what I thought of them. They tried to goad me into hitting them, but there was no physical altercation. The argument soon caught the attention of the police, who moved me to one side, and had words with the four guys. I don't know what was said between them, but they appeared to continue their argument, and I made off in the direction of the retail park towards the railway station.

I am choosing my words carefully, but I'd like to point out that no drink was involved on my behalf up to that point, as I had been in the stand behind the goal for the entire match.

I do feel rather ashamed of my actions, and should have ignored the goading like the others around me, but such is life, and I would probably react in the way I did again. I would ask the guys involved if they would be so quick to round on me if they didn't outnumber me 4 to 1.....

PUSB

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Fuck me no mass Brawl don't believe it we are all Hooligans.(Cov fans)

But seriously fair play to you travis most of us would act exactly the same, I Wasn't there this week but I for one would have stepped in as I have been on a picket line before and know how nasty it can get and this is with guys who know each other, not against strangers and the booze is not always the cause.

I'd like to set the record straight with what actually happened, as I was the guy in question who came out of the ground and got involved. I left the ground on the final whistle, and was subjected to a few boos and unsavoury comments from those on the hill.... Feeling rather aggrieved at our poor performance, I charged up the verge and invited them to 'say it to my face'...... I was rounded on by four guys who accused me of being a @@@@ing SISU scab and told me I was killing the club. I can't remember my exact words but they were told exactly what I thought of them. They tried to goad me into hitting them, but there was no physical altercation. The argument soon caught the attention of the police, who moved me to one side, and had words with the four guys. I don't know what was said between them, but they appeared to continue their argument, and I made off in the direction of the retail park towards the railway station.

I am choosing my words carefully, but I'd like to point out that no drink was involved on my behalf up to that point, as I had been in the stand behind the goal for the entire match.

I do feel rather ashamed of my actions, and should have ignored the goading like the others around me, but such is life, and I would probably react in the way I did again. I would ask the guys involved if they would be so quick to round on me if they didn't outnumber me 4 to 1.....

PUSB

 

[pusbccfc]

I'd like to set the record straight with what actually happened, as I was the guy in question who came out of the ground and got involved. I left the ground on the final whistle, and was subjected to a few boos and unsavoury comments from those on the hill.... Feeling rather aggrieved at our poor performance, I charged up the verge and invited them to 'say it to my face'...... I was rounded on by four guys who accused me of being a @@@@ing SISU scab and told me I was killing the club. I can't remember my exact words but they were told exactly what I thought of them. They tried to goad me into hitting them, but there was no physical altercation. The argument soon caught the attention of the police, who moved me to one side, and had words with the four guys. I don't know what was said between them, but they appeared to continue their argument, and I made off in the direction of the retail park towards the railway station.

I am choosing my words carefully, but I'd like to point out that no drink was involved on my behalf up to that point, as I had been in the stand behind the goal for the entire match.

I do feel rather ashamed of my actions, and should have ignored the goading like the others around me, but such is life, and I would probably react in the way I did again. I would ask the guys involved if they would be so quick to round on me if they didn't outnumber me 4 to 1.....

PUSB

It was a disgrace, I was one of the ones who did not say a word.
Embarrassed by mindless idiots.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I do feel rather ashamed of my actions, and should have ignored the goading like the others around me, but such is life, and I would probably react in the way I did again. I would ask the guys involved if they would be so quick to round on me if they didn't outnumber me 4 to 1.....

You say you feel ashamed about your actions but your last sentence would suggest you might kick off if it was only one person.

Sticks and stones and all that, it's only football ffs, not life and death!

 

[Matty_CCFC]

What a load of bull shit.
I was close to all this and hand bags and few raised voices.
Seen more action and hassle outside McDonalds.

 

[Matty_CCFC]

I'd like to set the record straight with what actually happened, as I was the guy in question who came out of the ground and got involved. I left the ground on the final whistle, and was subjected to a few boos and unsavoury comments from those on the hill.... Feeling rather aggrieved at our poor performance, I charged up the verge and invited them to 'say it to my face'...... I was rounded on by four guys who accused me of being a @@@@ing SISU scab and told me I was killing the club. I can't remember my exact words but they were told exactly what I thought of them. They tried to goad me into hitting them, but there was no physical altercation. The argument soon caught the attention of the police, who moved me to one side, and had words with the four guys. I don't know what was said between them, but they appeared to continue their argument, and I made off in the direction of the retail park towards the railway station.

I am choosing my words carefully, but I'd like to point out that no drink was involved on my behalf up to that point, as I had been in the stand behind the goal for the entire match.

I do feel rather ashamed of my actions, and should have ignored the goading like the others around me, but such is life, and I would probably react in the way I did again. I would ask the guys involved if they would be so quick to round on me if they didn't outnumber me 4 to 1.....

PUSB

I was the tall chap with the flat cap on, your talking shite. It was just you shouting and one guy giving as much back.

 

[Badger]

I go in and have heard more abuse from others entering towards the Hillers than the other way.

IMO the KCIC is the one which should unit all supporters if you add to that SISU/ACL/CCC grow up and talk it should help to remove the divisions.

 

[Ashdown1]

I go in and have heard more abuse from others entering towards the Hillers than the other way.

IMO the KCIC is the one which should unit all supporters if you add to that SISU/ACL/CCC grow up and talk it should help to remove the divisions.

Problem is, SISU only want to talk about one issue !?

 

[Badger]

I don't care if they only want to talk about owning the Ricoh if it gets the club back in Cov.

I am sure there is a way they can buy the place with a condition stating it must remain in the possession of the football club. Joy stated in the interview that she was prepare to negotiate between a valuation by the SISU surveyor and the CCC one. It may be b*ll*x but we won't know unless they talk.

 

[Travs]

I was the tall chap with the flat cap on, your talking shite. It was just you shouting and one guy giving as much back.

What part of my account is 'shite'...?

I don't actually recall seeing you. There was a middle aged bald guy who did most of the arguing. Funnily enough he accused me of funding SISU, whilst wearing the latest city top!

There was a tall guy with silver/grey hair. He looked like he was spoiling for a fight. There were two others but I don't remember what they looked like.

 

[Travs]

You say you feel ashamed about your actions but your last sentence would suggest you might kick off if it was only one person.

Sticks and stones and all that, it's only football ffs, not life and death!

I didn't say I might 'kick off'.... I suggested that those who rounded on me might not be quite so quick to voice there opinion if they were on their own.

As someone who trains in, and has taught martial arts in coventry, I am well aware of the dodgy ground I would be on legally, if I was to launch an attack on someone that would be seen as unprovoked in the eyes of the law.

 

[thaiskyblue]

Let it go lads.

 

[torchomatic]

So, why are the hill folk resorting to booing and slagging off fans who go in to Sixfields? Are these regulars or new ones who are turning up?

It was a disgrace, I was one of the ones who did not say a word.
Embarrassed by mindless idiots.

 

[thaiskyblue]

so, why are the hill folk resorting to booing and slagging off fans who go in to sixfields? Are these regulars or new ones who are turning up?

the brentford took the piss too, i wonder why ?

 

[shmmeee]

So, why are the hill folk resorting to booing and slagging off fans who go in to Sixfields? Are these regulars or new ones who are turning up?

No matter how much it suits your twisted narrative, there is no such group as "the hill folk" who have resorted to anything. It was one idiot on each side, and if you so desperately want to point fingers in this sad mess, have a look at Badger's post a few up where he states if anything it's those going into Sixfields that give the abuse. FFS stop trying to paint a certain section of fans as something while simultaneously harping on about how people are splitting the fans.

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

So, why are the hill folk resorting to booing and slagging off fans who go in to Sixfields? Are these regulars or new ones who are turning up?

Before you condemn read Badgers post and he goes in. Also you would have seen what kind of people are on the hill if you had taken up my invitation but then again you only read what you want to read

 

[Broken Hearted Sky Blue]

No matter how much it suits your twisted narrative, there is no such group as "the hill folk" who have resorted to anything. It was one idiot on each side, and if you so desperately want to point fingers in this sad mess, have a look at Badger's post a few up where he states if anything it's those going into Sixfields that give the abuse. FFS stop trying to paint a certain section of fans as something while simultaneously harping on about how people are splitting the fans.

Sorry did not see your post

 

[pusbccfc]

So, why are the hill folk resorting to booing and slagging off fans who go in to Sixfields? Are these regulars or new ones who are turning up?

At most 4/5 new people up there who started the abuse.