Legal action dropped (6 Viewers)

[italiahorse]

It may have been said before, but that is absolutely spot on and it's about time more people realised this too.
(the bolded part)

I also agree with the rest of it.

I am talking about when we were at the Ricoh when numbers dropped from day one. Some will argue that non attendance at Sixfields is also a problem but then again if we all went there would not be room.

 

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[hill83]

I am talking about when we were at the Ricoh when numbers dropped from day one. Some will argue that non attendance at Sixfields is also a problem but then again if we all went there would not be room.

Yeah, that's how I read it anyway, this season doesn't count in the attendance debate at all for me as it's a totally different situation to any other season.
People this season are staying away for a genuine reason, whether I agree that it will work or not.
That's not the same as people not going to the Ricoh because "It's too hard to get to" or "I don't like the style of play" etc.

I've been at the Ricoh when we had 9000 on a tuesday night. Where were all the distraught 'bring us home' people then?

Edited to remove some colourful language

 

[slyblue57]

'Very anti CCC' but living in Solihull? Why so anti?

Lived in Coventry, Wyken for many years before moving. Very anti CCC for not doing enough to bring the team back. They insisted previously that they will not sell the Ricoh to anyone. They along will many other Councils continue to cut funding to numerous areas whilst holding on to a Stadium which is losing money or maybe breaking even if you believe ACL, (I do nt). Selling the Ricoh to anyone will bring funds that the Council could use. I do nt support selling it to SiSu or any one else cheaply but I do nt see how they can justify not selling it. What are they actually getting out of it ? I m pretty sure that an extra 20 ,30, 40 million pounds or more raised by its sale could be put to better use that tied up in a white elephant of a Stadium. Only my opinion of course and a bit political.
SISU/ACL/CCC out.
Pusb

 

[italiahorse]

Lived in Coventry, Wyken for many years before moving. Very anti CCC for not doing enough to bring the team back. They insisted previously that they will not sell the Ricoh to anyone. They along will many other Councils continue to cut funding to numerous areas whilst holding on to a Stadium which is losing money or maybe breaking even if you believe ACL, (I do nt). Selling the Ricoh to anyone will bring funds that the Council could use. I do nt support selling it to SiSu or any one else cheaply but I do nt see how they can justify not selling it. What are they actually getting out of it ? I m pretty sure that an extra 20 ,30, 40 million pounds or more raised by its sale could be put to better use that tied up in a white elephant of a Stadium. Only my opinion of course and a bit political.
SISU/ACL/CCC out.
Pusb

The question is ... would they sell to Sisu if they offered them what it is worth?
I suspect they would.
However what we don't know is what Sisu have offered, if anything, or whether ACL have rejected a fair offer.

Until they tell us what offers have been made or refused we are going round in circles with the blame game.

Not sure whether the JR silences the council/ACL or maybe stops any bids being made/accepted.

 

[RPHunt]

That's not the same as people not going to the Ricoh because "It's too hard to get to" or "I don't like the style of play" etc.

I've been at the Ricoh when we had 9000 on a tuesday night. Where were all the distraught 'bring us home' people then?

I look forward to the campaign - how about "Fickle Fans Out" or "Keep Cov For The Real Fans" or even "Not One Glory Hunter More".

 

[hill83]

I look forward to the campaign - how about "Fickle Fans Out" or "Keep Cov For The Real Fans" or even "Not One Glory Hunter More".

Fill your boots, if people don't want to go they don't have to. Just take a bit of responsibilty for their actions.

It's the equivalent of moaning about 'another pub closing down' when you haven't been to the fucker for 6 years.

 

[James Smith]

Lived in Coventry, Wyken for many years before moving. Very anti CCC for not doing enough to bring the team back. They insisted previously that they will not sell the Ricoh to anyone. They along will many other Councils continue to cut funding to numerous areas whilst holding on to a Stadium which is losing money or maybe breaking even if you believe ACL, (I do nt). Selling the Ricoh to anyone will bring funds that the Council could use. I do nt support selling it to SiSu or any one else cheaply but I do nt see how they can justify not selling it. What are they actually getting out of it ? I m pretty sure that an extra 20 ,30, 40 million pounds or more raised by its sale could be put to better use that tied up in a white elephant of a Stadium. Only my opinion of course and a bit political.
SISU/ACL/CCC out.
Pusb

Okay so as OSB58 and me reckon Joy/SISU made a derisory bid of £10m or lower at the ownership meeting earlier in the year. The actual value is probably far more than that just as development land let alone with the ricoh complex on it (I know nothing about land values and am guessing here but working on the £60m Tesco paid). What may be causing problems is that the ricoh is doubtless worth more, with our club as tenants to any potential purchaser. The council won't sell cheaply and would have to factor ACL into the price so would like the club back even if only to boost the value. Joy won't allow the club to come back to the ricoh unless she owns it and she might not want to pay anything like the council want or need to satisfy any rules/regulations. So it appears to be a bit of a difficult situation, with no obvious solution that doesn't disadvantaged the council or mean Joy has to compromise her stated position.

Oh and the legal action possibly wouldn't have worked but then I'm not a lawyer and don't have all the fact, so not sure I'd be the best person to comment.

 

[RPHunt]

Fill your boots, if people don't want to go they don't have to. Just take a bit of responsibilty for their actions.

It's the equivalent of moaning about 'another pub closing down' when you haven't been to the fucker for 6 years.

The pubs near me that have shut down are mostly the ones that served crap beer and couldn't give a damn about customer service.

And no matter how good it was, if my local pub decided to move itself 35 miles away, then I would stop using it.

 

[hill83]

The pubs near me that have shut down are mostly the ones that served crap beer and couldn't give a damn about customer service.

And no matter how good it was, if my local pub decided to move itself 35 miles away, then I would stop using it.

I'm not talking about this season, which I've already stated. I'm taking about the last 4 to 5 years. You weapon.

Selective quoting by you and then forgetting what you've left out and arguing against nothing. Top forumming.

 

[RPHunt]

I'm not talking about this season, which I've already stated. I'm taking about the last 4 to 5 years. You weapon.

Selective quoting by you and then forgetting what you've left out and arguing against nothing. Top forumming.

I suggest you read my reply a bit more carefully.

And if my method of "forumming" is not to your taste, then I apologise but I will leave gratuitous abuse to you and the forum idiot.

 

[hill83]

I suggest you read my reply a bit more carefully.

And if my method of "forumming" is not to your taste, then I apologise but I will leave gratuitous abuse to you and the forum idiot.

What else is there to read, I'm not taking about this season, so the 'if my pub moved 35 miles away' is irrelevant.
The first of my posts you quoted you missed out:

this season doesn't count in the attendance debate at all for me as it's a totally different situation to any other season.
People this season are staying away for a genuine reason, whether I agree that it will work or not.

I didn't mention your first line because I agree with it.

 

[mrtickle]

You can but. at the end of the day only one has the day to day running of the club, and which direction to take.

So they have to take 90% of the blame, and with the current situation ACL have no say whatsoever happens to our club so now Sisu have to shoulder it all IMO.

More like 60/40.

 

[Godiva]

Okay so as OSB58 and me reckon Joy/SISU made a derisory bid of £10m or lower at the ownership meeting earlier in the year. The actual value is probably far more than that just as development land let alone with the ricoh complex on it (I know nothing about land values and am guessing here but working on the £60m Tesco paid). What may be causing problems is that the ricoh is doubtless worth more, with our club as tenants to any potential purchaser. The council won't sell cheaply and would have to factor ACL into the price so would like the club back even if only to boost the value. Joy won't allow the club to come back to the ricoh unless she owns it and she might not want to pay anything like the council want or need to satisfy any rules/regulations. So it appears to be a bit of a difficult situation, with no obvious solution that doesn't disadvantaged the council or mean Joy has to compromise her stated position.

Oh and the legal action possibly wouldn't have worked but then I'm not a lawyer and don't have all the fact, so not sure I'd be the best person to comment.

Didn't Seppala say she wanted set a price on the freehold based on the average of the valuation from both CCC's and sisu's chosen experts?

 

[shmmeee]

Didn't Seppala say she wanted set a price on the freehold based on the average of the valuation from both CCC's and sisu's chosen experts?

I bet she does. And I bet it'll make the Taylor WImpey evaluation of my house look positively generous.

"What's that CCC? You say it's worth £120m? My man thinks £0, let's split the difference and call it £60m eh?"

How about if she wants it she pays the asking price, or she goes elsewhere? Why is this even a discussion, I thought we'd "moved on" and were building our own stadium, with blackjack and hookers.

 

[Godiva]

I bet she does. And I bet it'll make the Taylor WImpey evaluation of my house look positively generous.

"What's that CCC? You say it's worth £120m? My man thinks £0, let's split the difference and call it £60m eh?"

How about if she wants it she pays the asking price, or she goes elsewhere? Why is this even a discussion, I thought we'd "moved on" and were building our own stadium, with blackjack and hookers.

What is the asking price?

 

[Grendel]

I bet she does. And I bet it'll make the Taylor WImpey evaluation of my house look positively generous.

"What's that CCC? You say it's worth £120m? My man thinks £0, let's split the difference and call it £60m eh?"

How about if she wants it she pays the asking price, or she goes elsewhere? Why is this even a discussion, I thought we'd "moved on" and were building our own stadium, with blackjack and hookers.

Isn't that nonwhitejack and women asking for it in your speak?

 

[Godiva]

I bet she does. And I bet it'll make the Taylor WImpey evaluation of my house look positively generous.

"What's that CCC? You say it's worth £120m? My man thinks £0, let's split the difference and call it £60m eh?"

How about if she wants it she pays the asking price, or she goes elsewhere? Why is this even a discussion, I thought we'd "moved on" and were building our own stadium, with blackjack and hookers.

Surely you mean Hooters?

 

[James Smith]

Didn't Seppala say she wanted set a price on the freehold based on the average of the valuation from both CCC's and sisu's chosen experts?

She isn't quoted as saying it in the interview

Sisu and its related firm Otium, which now runs the club, says a fair price for the Ricoh and the potential development land around it could be agreed by taking the average of each sides’ surveyors’ valuations, based on potential income.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-owner-joy-6096912

It also ignore the fact that ACL have a lease. She repeated the "We've moved on" mantra and talks about a new stadium

“Plan A is building a new stadium. There is something very exciting about building something that is a new beginning. It feels like the club is at a new beginning.

“The business side is operationally in a good place. Tim Fisher’s done a good job. The football side is going well.

“What’s exciting is being involved in the beginning to the end of building something like that, from purchasing land to planning permission to the designs for the stadium. Building it is exciting, different and new.

“Things have moved on since the Ricoh. The ability to expand (as the club grows) is exciting. We can start smaller and then build around it, whether or not it’s a multi-purpose sports stadium.

“We could have various sporting events there from a business model perspective and develop around it, whether it’s retail, restaurants or homes. There is a lot of flexibility in how we develop it. It’s something we would relish. It’s a dream.”

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/coventry-city-fc-owner-joy-6096912

If Plan A isn't what's planned to happen and she's hoping for a return to the Ricoh then she and Tim and Mark shouldn't be saying we've moved on. By dropping the legal action it almost feels like ACL have "moved on" and will do something without our club, could be a long time in Northampton if that's the case.

 

[Nick]

I bet she does. And I bet it'll make the Taylor WImpey evaluation of my house look positively generous.

"What's that CCC? You say it's worth £120m? My man thinks £0, let's split the difference and call it £60m eh?"

How about if she wants it she pays the asking price, or she goes elsewhere? Why is this even a discussion, I thought we'd "moved on" and were building our own stadium, with blackjack and hookers.

Does that not depend if the asking price is realistic? I'd much rather independent people value it it get 3 and do the average, can't say much fairer can they?

 

[shmmeee]

Isn't that nonwhitejack and women asking for it in your speak?

Does that not depend if the asking price is realistic? I'd much rather independent people value it it get 3 and do the average, can't say much fairer can they?

Like I say, my experience with this is Taylor Wimpey who agreed to part-ex my house with "an independent valuation". I had three other estate agents in in case the part-ex didn't work out (it didn't) and all valued it a full %40 higher than the "independent" guy sent round by Taylor Wimpey.

Taking the average is a terrible way to agree anything, as proved it's so easy for one biased party to skew the outcome.

Either we want it or we don't all this "we don't want it" then "but maybe they should lower the price" is boring.

Oh and: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/im-going-to-build-my-own-theme-park-with-blackjack-and-hookers

 

[italiahorse]

Didn't Seppala say she wanted set a price on the freehold based on the average of the valuation from both CCC's and sisu's chosen experts?

SISU would value it without a football team in residence.
ACL would value it with a football team in residence.
The average would be about right but ACL would have to take a loss on this basis.

 

[torchomatic]

AH, but there's fair and there's fair in the eyes of those who don't want the club to get the stadium. And I do mean club.

Does that not depend if the asking price is realistic? I'd much rather independent people value it it get 3 and do the average, can't say much fairer can they?

 

[James Smith]

Does that not depend if the asking price is realistic? I'd much rather independent people value it it get 3 and do the average, can't say much fairer can they?

I agree that a third party or two would be better but why get ones done by the choice of either side? If it was set up by some truly independent person, who picks the firms, who in turn aren't getting paid directly by either party (maybe the money goes into an escrow account first) and no-one knows who has been chosen until the reports are done. Less chance of what shmmeee thinks might happen occurring then.

 

[Nick]

SISU would value it without a football team in residence.
ACL would value it with a football team in residence.
The average would be about right but ACL would have to take a loss on this basis.

But they don't have a club do they? If the market price is a lot less than what they paid then it will be a loss.

 

[James Smith]

SISU would value it without a football team in residence.
ACL would value it with a football team in residence.
The average would be about right but ACL would have to take a loss on this basis.

Ah but we're talking about the freehold here which the council own so do we add £12m or whatever the value of the lease is to the freehold valuation to pay off ACL (i.e. the Higgs and CCC)?

 

[shmmeee]

AH, but there's fair and there's fair in the eyes of those who don't want the club to get the stadium. And I do mean club.

No there's no such thing as a "fair price" there's what it's worth to the club and what it's worth to the council and if those two don't match up then it makes no sense for the club to try and buy it. In fact it makes no fucking sense anyway, but let's all ignore that and argue that a football club absolutely must own property.

Seppala is coming across like a melodramatic teenager "I'm going to kill myself!" "OK then" "I mean it!". Alright love, do it or don't but stop talking about it.

 

[James Smith]

But they don't have a club do they? If the market price is a lot less than what they paid then it will be a loss.

What worries me about this dropping of the legals is that ACL might have decided they've had enough of this, wasted too much time/money and "Move on" without us. Suppose they do find another club or tenant to use the pitch as unlikely as it sounds? I thought we'd never move to Sixfields and that happened, so I wouldn't be surpriised.

 

[Nick]

No there's no such thing as a "fair price" there's what it's worth to the club and what it's worth to the council and if those two don't match up then it makes no sense for the club to try and buy it. In fact it makes no fucking sense anyway, but let's all ignore that and argue that a football club absolutely must own property.

Seppala is coming across like a melodramatic teenager "I'm going to kill myself!" "OK then" "I mean it!". Alright love, do it or don't but stop talking about it.

Where does market value come into it? Obviously something is only worth what people will pay but people will be able to work out a realistic value.

I'd much rather the club owned it then the council to be fair.

 

[James Smith]

Where does market value come into it? Obviously something is only worth what people will pay but people will be able to work out a realistic value.

I'd much rather the club owned it then the council to be fair.

As has been stated before the Club don't really need to own the freehold to benefit from being at the Ricoh. They just need the revenue from the activities that ACL currently get year round.

 

[italiahorse]

But they don't have a club do they? If the market price is a lot less than what they paid then it will be a loss.

That's the point. In theory it should be valued with the club because that is where its going.
ACL should however let it go to the "club" at a knock down value.
Can't see it but I hope ACL don't move on.

 

[fernandopartridge]

That's the point. In theory it should be valued with the club because that is where its going.
ACL should however let it go to the "club" at a knock down value.
Can't see it but I hope ACL don't move on.

Markets dictate prices. Apart from CCFC, who is in the market to play at the Ricoh?

 

[RPHunt]

Markets dictate prices. Apart from CCFC, who is in the market to play at the Ricoh?

Indeed they do, but who apart from ACL, is in the market to provide a ground anywhere near the city where the club should be playing?

 

[Grendel]

Indeed they do, but who apart from ACL, is in the market to provide a ground anywhere near the city where the club should be playing?

So really ACL ultimately are the issue aren't they? So really what the offer should be is to hand ACL to sisu including payment of the outstanding mortgage.

This would then force sisu into a corner. They either accept to run the management company and not get entitlement to the freehold or they refuse and admit owning the freehold property is the only way forward for them. We are I think the only club that has not got ownership (or part ownership) of the management company that runs the ground of all council owned stadiums.

Before you start blabbering on about the club selling its rights to this and sisu knowing the score remember you claim to be a Coventry supporter so want the club back in town. Most council owned stadiums have allowed the club shares in the management company without charge - yes without charge. Stoke went one step further and have the stadium to the club for payment of the outstanding mortgage. Oh and stokes ground had assistance in construction from a regeneration charity.

So for once get your head out of your backside and agree the club has to own ACL and there is no precedent from any club in the country that has a council built stadium that it pays for it.

 

[Astute]

So really ACL ultimately are the issue aren't they? So really what the offer should be is to hand ACL to sisu including payment of the outstanding mortgage.

This would then force sisu into a corner. They either accept to run the management company and not get entitlement to the freehold or they refuse and admit owning the freehold property is the only way forward for them. We are I think the only club that has not got ownership (or part ownership) of the management company that runs the ground of all council owned stadiums.

Before you start blabbering on about the club selling its rights to this and sisu knowing the score remember you claim to be a Coventry supporter so want the club back in town. Most council owned stadiums have allowed the club shares in the management company without charge - yes without charge. Stoke went one step further and have the stadium to the club for payment of the outstanding mortgage. Oh and stokes ground had assistance in construction from a regeneration charity.

So for once get your head out of your backside and agree the club has to own ACL and there is no precedent from any club in the country that has a council built stadium that it pays for it.

Why don't you get your head out of your arse and work out that CCFC wouldn't own the ground but a hedge fund that do dodgy deals and do not stick to the law would. For example when did they last have their books up to date like they should?

 

[covcity4life]

Another own goal from the council. Idiots