Clouting on CWR (2 Viewers)

[ericagradus]

Interesting hearing Clouting's reaction to Hoffman on CWR this morning.

1. The club is not for sale.
2. The club are however looking for investors
3. Hoffmans offer, was not signed and details of the buyers were not disclosed
4. Sisu invest £500k a month to cover running costs
5. Clouting can be quoted as saying, Hoffman on 1st July confirmed that any offer had now been withdrawn.

So if all the above is true - there is no offer on the table.

Is Hoffman trying to use the fans to bully the club into selling?!

 

---

[Nick]

I think they are full of it, just from rhem lying in the past!

 

[Deleted member 2477]

I agree theres been one to many incidents now of who do we believe involving numerous other parties ie players contracts, board members etc. They cant all be lying.
I think its time for SISU to F Off and let us get on with re building the mess that they have caused

 

[Gray]

the club has to be for sale! what they going to do when the money they've just borrowed runs out, get a loan on the basis of how many programes they'll sell next year?its 1 big joke

 

[Nick]

How does the not for sale but want investors work? Are SISU not made up of investors?

Do they just want money for nothing? If they don't want to sell the club then what do the investors get?

 

[stevo_ccfc]

Its simple really if the club is for sale then there would be a price tag and people would offer less than that to get a better deal. If its not for sale then they can name their price and only sell if the offer was sweet enough.

 

[Nick]

Who would pay for debts to SISU though? It is like buying a car with finance left on it that goes into your name?

 

[SkyBlueMania]

So SISU are pumping in 500k each month to the club, selling every business asset we own, trying to offload every player possible for cash and are refusing a takeover bid. They won't make cash unless we get promoted, we won't get promoted unless we keep our best players and use our profitable assets to invest in the team. What exactly are they in it for, I am totally stumped as to how they expect to make money from this venture, which they must if they are refusing to sell?! Can anyone business minded enlighten me as to how a profit from this scenario could be plausible?

 

[oldskyblue58]

just my opinion/thoughts/questions................

I am not comfortable with this being negotiated in public.
Who are these mysterious backers for GH.
Its no good saying its not for sale, these are serious businessmen on both sides and everything has a price
I am inclined to agree with University football expert quoted on CWR who thinks GH's offer is not enough - ok go for a discount but at least make it tempting
Not comfortable with GH's comments about former shareholders because it has nothing to do with the deal that is being put together now
Is the option still valid because it was written off in the SBS&L accounts in 2010?
Think SISU were the wrong investors in the first place but i do not think we had much choice.
SISU are the wrong people to run this club - have always thought so, but they are right to cut expenses etc we cant continue to live beyond our means
Think SISU need to be clearer about what their plans are the funding they can bring in the future if any
Got to be honest if I am given an offer to buy my business not signed on blank paper I am not going to take it that seriously - cant believe that someone running Northern Rock took that path.
I would love to see the back of SISU.
If SISU go are we just jumping from frying pan to fire
Losses to be repaid over period SISU been here ?- so that would be £17.8m up to 31/05/10 and more since - doesnt seem to leave much in the pot for AT does it
If you were owed £24m in loans would you accept a reported £13m to go ?
The shares are worthless - its the loans that need to be repaid that are the problem
There are other creditors for the group - some loans PAYE VAT etc who is paying those- does it come out of the £20m "investment"
Think that GH's offer will still under fund the club
Is Geoffery Robinson one of the backers for GH?


Overall feel is smoke and mirrors on both sides. Not comfortable with much of it. Just get it done or not stop the posturing

 

[@richh87]

So SISU are pumping in 500k each month to the club, selling every business asset we own, trying to offload every player possible for cash and are refusing a takeover bid. They won't make cash unless we get promoted, we won't get promoted unless we keep our best players and use our profitable assets to invest in the team. What exactly are they in it for, I am totally stumped as to how they expect to make money from this venture, which they must if they are refusing to sell?! Can anyone business minded enlighten me as to how a profit from this scenario could be plausible?

Quite! What the hell are SISU hoping for? Maybe they think if they stall Hoffman he'll become worried about our lack of transfer activity and give them a few million quid.

SISU are on borrowed time.

 

[Chipfat]

They have had 3 years and basically done nothing to improve the clubs status or take it forward, its time they moved on and found another company to fail with. As for clouting he can say what he wants everybody knows that we are strapped for cash and Sisu will do anything to pay the running cost apart from sisu money. The sad and worrying thing now is to pay this monthly cost the last resort is to sell players so expect Juke, Turner and Clingan to be gone and 2 of them before the season starts. So expect Jeffers , Wilson, Ruffles, Thomas, Gael, Hussey, Cameron and Clarke at some point in the season being in the starting line up....

SISU you have failed dont let this go on any longer so take your medicine and move on for the sake of all who love this club from the heart not because of money...

 

[ericagradus]

If this is a share sale, as oppossed to an asset sale. Then any buyer/investor will be buying the club including all liabilities.

 

[ericagradus]

Who would pay for debts to SISU though? It is like buying a car with finance left on it that goes into your name?

If this is a share sale, as oppossed to an asset sale. Then any buyer/investor will be buying the club including all liabilities.

 

[Scott 79]

can't someone set up an online petition for any who feels SISU should get out - i would do it myself but not sure of the appropriate wording -

 

[Nick]

I think online petitions are pointless. How often do they ever work?

 

[Scott 79]

....not very often i'm sure but it would highlight, if not just for our own sake, how many fans want SISU out and new investors in

 

[Chipfat]

If any fan looks at all that has happend i would not think many will back sisu. They cannot afford to keep this club going as they have used every avenue to source money to pay for the running costs. From re mortgaging the training ground, selling the only profitable asset the club had in pro zone and now high interest bank loans and this is not to re invest for the furture but to pay for the past....

Clouting said they are willing to pay 500.000 every month to keep it going BS they are willing to loan against the club to keep it going and put us more in trouble. You wait until they have to sell Juke to pay for ODonavan and Eastwoods wages see how many fans will be happy then....

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

My attitude is they own the club, therefore it aint loans, it's losses. We owe them nothing. There will be no-way a takeover is feasible if they continue to see it thhis way and hold out for (say) 10-20m.

I thought a quid was the realsitic first offer a few days ago, tbh-if they're losing that much money by covering costs (which they obviously don't think they are, as it's a "loan" to their thinking..) surely you'd just get out to stop the bleeding?

 

[lordsummerisle]

I think online petitions are pointless. How often do they ever work?

I'm still waiting for Spandau Ballet's Gold to be the new National Anthem..

 

[oldskyblue58]

My attitude is they own the club, therefore it aint loans, it's losses. We owe them nothing. There will be no-way a takeover is feasible if they continue to see it thhis way and hold out for (say) 10-20m.

I thought a quid was the realsitic first offer a few days ago, tbh-if they're losing that much money by covering costs (which they obviously don't think they are, as it's a "loan" to their thinking..) surely you'd just get out to stop the bleeding?

Except the investment so far has been by way of legally constituted loans from the private equity funds that SISU manage for their clients. SISU themselves do not own the shares the private equity funds do.

Anyone coming in as a new owner is going to have to deal with the loans that are there. Last thing a new owner needs is for them to get the company and the loans are called in. The loans either get settled or remain a liability of the company. The sticking point, amongst other things, is how much of the loans will get to be repaid.

The selling of the shares isnt the hard bit, the loans and how much is repaid is. SISU could easily say there are the shares for£1 and sit back with the loans their clients made and effectively still control the club because of the size of the debt even charge interest on the debt. That would be unacceptable to any new buyer obviously. Both GH and SISU are playing brinksmanship and we the fans are stuck in the middle of it whilst they test their nerve

 

[sotv1987]

just my opinion/thoughts/questions................

I am not comfortable with this being negotiated in public.
Who are these mysterious backers for GH.
Its no good saying its not for sale, these are serious businessmen on both sides and everything has a price
I am inclined to agree with University football expert quoted on CWR who thinks GH's offer is not enough - ok go for a discount but at least make it tempting
Not comfortable with GH's comments about former shareholders because it has nothing to do with the deal that is being put together now
Is the option still valid because it was written off in the SBS&L accounts in 2010?
Think SISU were the wrong investors in the first place but i do not think we had much choice.
SISU are the wrong people to run this club - have always thought so, but they are right to cut expenses etc we cant continue to live beyond our means
Think SISU need to be clearer about what their plans are the funding they can bring in the future if any
Got to be honest if I am given an offer to buy my business not signed on blank paper I am not going to take it that seriously - cant believe that someone running Northern Rock took that path.
I would love to see the back of SISU.
If SISU go are we just jumping from frying pan to fire
Losses to be repaid over period SISU been here ?- so that would be £17.8m up to 31/05/10 and more since - doesnt seem to leave much in the pot for AT does it
If you were owed £24m in loans would you accept a reported £13m to go ?
The shares are worthless - its the loans that need to be repaid that are the problem
There are other creditors for the group - some loans PAYE VAT etc who is paying those- does it come out of the £20m "investment"
Think that GH's offer will still under fund the club
Is Geoffery Robinson one of the backers for GH?


Overall feel is smoke and mirrors on both sides. Not comfortable with much of it. Just get it done or not stop the posturing

Oldskyblue, you never fail to amaze me with your brilliant posts, maybe you could run the club with the Hoff, if so, pemiership here we come, on a serious note, great post!!!!:claping hands:

 

[chiefdave]

Except the investment so far has been by way of legally constituted loans from the private equity funds that SISU manage for their clients. SISU themselves do not own the shares the private equity funds do.

Anyone coming in as a new owner is going to have to deal with the loans that are there. Last thing a new owner needs is for them to get the company and the loans are called in. The loans either get settled or remain a liability of the company. The sticking point, amongst other things, is how much of the loans will get to be repaid.

The selling of the shares isnt the hard bit, the loans and how much is repaid is. SISU could easily say there are the shares for£1 and sit back with the loans their clients made and effectively still control the club because of the size of the debt even charge interest on the debt. That would be unacceptable to any new buyer obviously. Both GH and SISU are playing brinksmanship and we the fans are stuck in the middle of it whilst they test their nerve

is this not the same situation we were in when SISU took over with the club having loans from GR and possibly others? You clearly know more about the finances than I do but to me it looks like GH is trying to do the same thing that SISU did and take on the debt with conditions (ie: only repayable if we get promoted within 3 years)

also, assuming SISU have no investor in the wings, can they realistically hold on. Surely sooner or later they will have to put the club into admin unless they want to keep covering the losses or put a big investment in. They don't seem willing to keep covering the losses judging by recent events and they don't seem to have a investor to come in.

could they just be hanging on as long as possible in the hope that an investor comes in. if we do go into admin would SISU be better off than if they sold to GH as they would get the proceeds of player sales being the biggest creditor?

 

[sotv1987]

can't someone set up an online petition for any who feels SISU should get out - i would do it myself but not sure of the appropriate wording -

no point scott lad, it will be an overwhelming SISU OUT mate!!!

 

[oldskyblue58]

is this not the same situation we were in when SISU took over with the club having loans from GR and possibly others? You clearly know more about the finances than I do but to me it looks like GH is trying to do the same thing that SISU did and take on the debt with conditions (ie: only repayable if we get promoted within 3 years)

also, assuming SISU have no investor in the wings, can they realistically hold on. Surely sooner or later they will have to put the club into admin unless they want to keep covering the losses or put a big investment in. They don't seem willing to keep covering the losses judging by recent events and they don't seem to have a investor to come in.

could they just be hanging on as long as possible in the hope that an investor comes in. if we do go into admin would SISU be better off than if they sold to GH as they would get the proceeds of player sales being the biggest creditor?

He is trying to do exactly that - but SISU are not having it

I know there are the claims that administration is just round the corner - and it may happen - but to get the accounts signed off the Board had to produce financial plans that got us through to the end of the coming season at least. Since then they have seen costs reduced by the "3" going saving wages and there have been some senior staff leave too. Now i could easily be wrong and will hold my hands up if i am but that says to me that there is a campaign of mis information going on and that SISU/the Board though pressed financially are not pressured to get it done on the cheap.

Suits everyone for the club to be sold without administration - everyone thinks because they dont see millions for transfer fees that SISU are less than expert at financials - it is not the case. When they came in there was no one else it was them or bust, Robinsons deal was deemed weak and unsustainable, thats why the shares went for nothing- the current situation though dire in our eyes is not the same (despite what the CT would have you believe). SISU are used to these situations with ailing companies - its their core business - they wont be bullied

At the moment i would say all options are open, SISU staying, SISU finding investors, GH taking over, Other investors taking over, or administration

 

[Pigeon]

If SISU did have investors waiting in the wings surely they would have used them by now and not taken a loan out on season tickets or cashed in on our players?

 

[oldskyblue58]

didnt say they had them waiting, clearly they dont that we know of.......... but in these situations when someone declares an interest it often increases the interest from other parties

 

[Il Pirata]

Owners don't lie, don't be silly.

 

[oldskyblue58]

not implying anything by asking this, but heard it mentioned the other day and wasn't sure if true or not ..........

is GH son in law to Geoffrey Robinson or in some other way related?

anyone know for sure ?

 

[Paxman II]

I think my fellow talkster olderskyblue has just about summarised everything correctly from what we know.

All I can add is that Hoffman by his own admission come across as a bit of a clown. His 'offer' was derisory as far as SISU are concerened a point I made a few days ago. I wonder who is wasting who's time here? Hoffman should know better. So given all this has come out publicly then he should now make clear his intentions again and place them in written and serious form asap.
It smacked of such amateurism that SISU would likely be dismissive.

If SISU are saying they continue to look for investors or even a sale (and obviously the door is open to that) given a fit and proper offer then they will in the short to medium term not want to put in any more money other than what was absolutely necessary for the club to continue in business. So committed to that they are.
It makes sense then that initially they will use whatever assets they have to generate this money until those options are dried up and then they will fund it themselves at the presumed rate of some 500k a month. (which is a figure diminishing by the way) That sustainability will be judged when it happens...possibly at the end of the coming season.
Hoffman then has to re-visit with his investors and come back with a serious bid that will appeal better to SISIU and who would blame SISU for that considering they are holding the 'debt' of some 23m?
SISU hold the cards here and those stadium rights are a big reason why anyone will still have an interest in taking on CCFC.

One thing for sure in the short term Andy Thorn will not have the means to bring in players other than 'loans' and then to fund those will have some of the savings made from the loss of the 'big 3' to pay for them. He has a very tough task but with a couple of good loans he may well have a decent squad at this point in time. Gunnarsson was not anything special to the squad and though King seemed like the goal scorer we all wanted to keep perhaps - just perhaps a new man under Thorn is about to emerge from the shadows? The Juke's ratio was pretty impressive towards the latter part of last season when we played a completely different style under a completely different manager. he certainly eclipsed King's performances. Even Sheffer's played in the hole where he flourishes and I see that combination doing well.

SISU will keep the ship steady as possible for now....and sounds like they will be willing to fund the monthly cost override when necessary up to a point. A good cup run and a good season will inevitably remove a lot of that monthly override too. So yes the Hoff must get more inventive and serious in his approach if he is to be taken seriously.

 

[sky blue zam]

Interesting hearing Clouting's reaction to Hoffman on CWR this morning.

1. The club is not for sale.
2. The club are however looking for investors
3. Hoffmans offer, was not signed and details of the buyers were not disclosed
4. Sisu invest £500k a month to cover running costs
5. Clouting can be quoted as saying, Hoffman on 1st July confirmed that any offer had now been withdrawn.

So if all the above is true - there is no offer on the table.

Is Hoffman trying to use the fans to bully the club into selling?!

pot kettle and black come to mind on item number 3


:blue::blue::blue::blue::blue::blue:

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

I think my fellow talkster olderskyblue has just about summarised everything correctly from what we know.

All I can add is that Hoffman by his own admission come across as a bit of a clown. His 'offer' was derisory as far as SISU are concerened a point I made a few days ago. I wonder who is wasting who's time here? Hoffman should know better. So given all this has come out publicly then he should now make clear his intentions again and place them in written and serious form asap.
It smacked of such amateurism that SISU would likely be dismissive.

If SISU are saying they continue to look for investors or even a sale (and obviously the door is open to that) given a fit and proper offer then they will in the short to medium term not want to put in any more money other than what was absolutely necessary for the club to continue in business. So committed to that they are.
It makes sense then that initially they will use whatever assets they have to generate this money until those options are dried up and then they will fund it themselves at the presumed rate of some 500k a month. (which is a figure diminishing by the way) That sustainability will be judged when it happens...possibly at the end of the coming season.
Hoffman then has to re-visit with his investors and come back with a serious bid that will appeal better to SISIU and who would blame SISU for that considering they are holding the 'debt' of some 23m?
SISU hold the cards here and those stadium rights are a big reason why anyone will still have an interest in taking on CCFC.

One thing for sure in the short term Andy Thorn will not have the means to bring in players other than 'loans' and then to fund those will have some of the savings made from the loss of the 'big 3' to pay for them. He has a very tough task but with a couple of good loans he may well have a decent squad at this point in time. Gunnarsson was not anything special to the squad and though King seemed like the goal scorer we all wanted to keep perhaps - just perhaps a new man under Thorn is about to emerge from the shadows? The Juke's ratio was pretty impressive towards the latter part of last season when we played a completely different style under a completely different manager. he certainly eclipsed King's performances. Even Sheffer's played in the hole where he flourishes and I see that combination doing well.

SISU will keep the ship steady as possible for now....and sounds like they will be willing to fund the monthly cost override when necessary up to a point. A good cup run and a good season will inevitably remove a lot of that monthly override too. So yes the Hoff must get more inventive and serious in his approach if he is to be taken seriously.

Totally agree. SISU may not be wanted or liked by supporters but there is no way they will let the club go into administration. It is in SISU's interest to keep the club going until such time as an acceptable offer is made. So, like it our not, give SISU our backing.

 

[DazzleTommyDazzle]

I think my fellow talkster olderskyblue has just about summarised everything correctly from what we know.

All I can add is that Hoffman by his own admission come across as a bit of a clown. His 'offer' was derisory as far as SISU are concerened a point I made a few days ago. I wonder who is wasting who's time here? Hoffman should know better. So given all this has come out publicly then he should now make clear his intentions again and place them in written and serious form asap.
It smacked of such amateurism that SISU would likely be dismissive.

If SISU are saying they continue to look for investors or even a sale (and obviously the door is open to that) given a fit and proper offer then they will in the short to medium term not want to put in any more money other than what was absolutely necessary for the club to continue in business. So committed to that they are.
It makes sense then that initially they will use whatever assets they have to generate this money until those options are dried up and then they will fund it themselves at the presumed rate of some 500k a month. (which is a figure diminishing by the way) That sustainability will be judged when it happens...possibly at the end of the coming season.
Hoffman then has to re-visit with his investors and come back with a serious bid that will appeal better to SISIU and who would blame SISU for that considering they are holding the 'debt' of some 23m?
SISU hold the cards here and those stadium rights are a big reason why anyone will still have an interest in taking on CCFC.

One thing for sure in the short term Andy Thorn will not have the means to bring in players other than 'loans' and then to fund those will have some of the savings made from the loss of the 'big 3' to pay for them. He has a very tough task but with a couple of good loans he may well have a decent squad at this point in time. Gunnarsson was not anything special to the squad and though King seemed like the goal scorer we all wanted to keep perhaps - just perhaps a new man under Thorn is about to emerge from the shadows? The Juke's ratio was pretty impressive towards the latter part of last season when we played a completely different style under a completely different manager. he certainly eclipsed King's performances. Even Sheffer's played in the hole where he flourishes and I see that combination doing well.

SISU will keep the ship steady as possible for now....and sounds like they will be willing to fund the monthly cost override when necessary up to a point. A good cup run and a good season will inevitably remove a lot of that monthly override too. So yes the Hoff must get more inventive and serious in his approach if he is to be taken seriously.

A lot I agree with there, but I have worries over the last paragraph.

When KD took over as Chairman, he said that the new Board had worked hard to persuade SISU to put in the extra money required to avoid administration. We now understand that that funding came from the sale of ProZone.

I'm not yet convinced that SISU are prepared to inject additional new cash into the business to cover the ongoing operating losses. If they won't (and to be fair, I could understand their reluctance) my worry is that the funding would have to come from cashing in on one/some/all of our saleable assets (Juke, Clingan, Turner, Crainie....). If that was to happen, you could only see things getting tougher on the pitch, gates falling etc and so the negative spiral would accelerate.

If we make the start of the season with no sales and maybe even a couple of players coming in, then I'll be delighted. At the moment I'm holding my breath and crossing my fingers.......

 

[davebart]

some sense talked in last few posts.

I simply cannot see SISU allowing the club to go into administration. They will keep it going unless they see no way of recouping their own losses.

Talk of new investors is nonsense. SISU are nothing but investors. They want someone else to take some or all of the burden. a rich nutter or foreign billionaire presumably. ideally they would want that person to inject some hefty cash with themselves still on board to reap the benefits, which is why they say the club is not for sale.

The main bearing this has on us the fans is that there will be NO investment in the team until the sugar daddy comes along. Can't see it being the hoff myself.

 

[blueflint]

wish we could guarantee sisu on borrowed time but we need cash input very quickly

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

This is the SISU love-in thread. Best line so far-"SISU will keep the ship steady"