ohitsaidwalker king power
Well-Known Member
I assume you mean me- prey tell how did you deduce that.. and please dont undermine my support for CCFC with your own twisted thoughts
How will the stalemate break (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter dongonzalos
- Start date
I assume you mean me- prey tell how did you deduce that.. and please dont undermine my support for CCFC with your own twisted thoughts
ohitsaidwalker king power
Well-Known Member
'Their' defence... how informative.... by inference then you are aligned to SISU..(by your own perverse logic?)
2 can play your game G.. its easy on the web..
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
If you don't rise to the bait he will clear off back to gmk !!!!
ohitsaidwalker king power
Well-Known Member
Yep I know SBJ and I'm a little dissapointed in myself:facepalm:...
unlike L'oreal...
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
Well they will need it when they get demoted to the conference, and oh and will we then still be playing second fiddle to a team that will be playing Nuneaton.
2 new stands bigger capacity and lower crowds.
So Grendel you hope that ACL become bankrupt, well if they go into administration it will be sold to the highest bidder, so it will be curtains for your beloved SISU and the pittance they want to pay.
2 new stands bigger capacity and lower crowds.
So Grendel you hope that ACL become bankrupt, well if they go into administration it will be sold to the highest bidder, so it will be curtains for your beloved SISU and the pittance they want to pay.
J
Jack Griffin
Guest
Just why should ACL sell an asset at a knock down price to a company with massive debts (£70M according to the last statement from Mr Appleton I think) and no published accounts or viable business plan, surely that is madness and anyone with an ounce of common sense can see it..
If CCFC is viable then Joy Seppala and her billionaire investors will sort it out, it is not the business of the council to prop them up.
I'll wager that ACL's books will look a lot better than CCFC's this time next year.
If CCFC is viable then Joy Seppala and her billionaire investors will sort it out, it is not the business of the council to prop them up.
I'll wager that ACL's books will look a lot better than CCFC's this time next year.
Astute
Well-Known Member
I wonder if SISU would try and get Appleton to do any administration work for ACL?
What I always find rather strange is the fans who tend to support the SISU 'side' of this on going debate, seemingly don't believe at all Fisher and Seppalla's pronoucements that they intend to build a new stadium.
It is understandable that fans who simply don't trust SISU at all, don't believe Fisher when he says,'we don't bluster, we have left the Ricoh, we have moved on, we have engaged a specialist developer, we are looking at 3/4/5 sites blah blah blah.'
But fans who are quite happy with SISU's continuing ownership, seem to be fixated with the ACL/Council/Ricoh. Suggesting protests at the Council House, boycotting the Ricoh for other events etc. Why? Fisher has said repeatedly we have moved on, and now Seppalla has confirmed her dream for a new stadium. If you don't believe them, and think they are continually lying, why would trust them on anything they say.
If you trust SISU enough to be happy with them continuing running CCFC, then surely you must believe their oft and continuing message about a new stadium. You either trust them or you don't.
shy_tall_knight
Well-Known Member
Very aggressive Mr Grendel, you sound nearly as desperate as SISU do. Not sure what part is bollax the hedge fund at my old company is true, I don't trust them, is true, the potential to sign the club to an onerous lease then sell the stadium on is a possibility. SISU need to make a return on their investment, they aint going to make that through selling the club as it stands, it has no assets etc..
What does the all wise Grendel think is their masterplan, other than getting the Ricoh on the cheap. We await your words of wisdom, don't bother slagging off ACL or CCC which is all you ever offer just tell us what you think the SISU boys are going to do with this once fine club.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Ah the old Grendel journalistic cut, paste,quote and misinterpret approach..........
I still remember those days of you lauding SISU's hard ball tactics and ignoring the warnings that you will not like it when their hard ball tactics screw the fans. 'That will never happen they will never leave Coventry, its a bluff'
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Astute
Well-Known Member
he'll get back you you this evening
And come out with a decent truthful comment tomorrow.
Just a shame that tomorrow never comes.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Like the day you actually leaving this forum rather than making attention seeking posts about leaving, never does either.
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
To be honest I was more interested in seeing how people think it will conclude.
For me it will take ACL to enter preliminary discussions with an other party.
I can't see it ending in a new stadium
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If ACL are a viable business as things stand, and capable of making annual profits, then I don't see any change regarding the Ricoh unless someone makes a reasonable offer. I think they probably are marginally profitable, and certainly could be more so ... Sisu appear to believe the same or they wouldn't be interested at any price. I don't blame them for trying to get it cheap, who wouldn't, but the onus is on them to make an offer if they want it. That ACL haven't made any further offers recently somewhat reinforces the idea that they think they can make money without CCFC as a tenant.
Given that I don't see Sisu making an acceptable offer for ACL or the freehold, that only leaves building a new stadium (since Joy said they don't plan to sell any time soon). I can see it happening, but it would probably take years to complete, and it's a big risk given that they may still get much smaller crowds that at the Ricoh. I hope I'm completely wrong but I foresee several years in Northampton ... probably 3+.
As an aside, if Sisu were to buy the Ricoh then I would put money on it being in CCFC or a new subsidiary with management fees going to another company in the Sisu group - probably at similarly inflated rates as they are currently charging.
SkyBlueCharlie
Well-Known Member
Of course if ACL did go belly up and entered administration then CCC as the major creditor would be in the position to appoint the Administrator, have ACL's parent company make the highest bid etc, etc, etc...sounds somewhat familiar?
letsallsingtogether
Well-Known Member
You bet they would but I think he my have burnt his bridges and will not even be interviewed .
Then again maybe we will have our new state of the art stadium, with all the trimmings, and all the other financial benefits like - a smaller rent paid to sisu but at least well get the pie money.. sisu won't need it then?
.Then again maybe we will have our new state of the art stadium, with all the trimmings, and all the other financial benefits like - a smaller rent paid to sisu but at least well get the pie money.. sisu won't need it then?
mds
Well-Known Member
If im wrong correct me, im a man, i can take it!
Just be right!
Wouldnt be the first time i was wrong that is a fact! My take on what i had read elsewhere!
Edit- I was having a blonde moment, i allways forget about Higgs, but still, if ACL didnt pay it left the door open for a third party to own a quarter, and open the door to more farcical goings on like we have with SISU.
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I agree. However, I can see Avro lending (on paper) to CCFC to "pay" the inflated management fees that will be charged to CCFC by the parent company. Avro build up the debt and then take a debenture (a first charge) over the Ricoh before CCFC eventually go into administration if a buyer with more money than sense cannot be found for the club.
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
Gasp !!!!!!!
What would that mean ccfc split from the Ricoh ?
Um where have i seen this scenario before ?
Surely not Grendel, Godiva's,RFC's beloved Sisu !!!!!!
Astute
Well-Known Member
Big difference here though.
Grendull has turned into a WUM. To him ACL are the ones at fault. SISU are blame free. With me i'd had enough of the crap in here. Non truths were the truth if it was to do with SISU. Everyone else was an idiot. Try to help the club in any way and you are a muppet. I'd had enough of the stupid arguing and name calling. Also had a lot of beer
I had planned to just lurk like the vast majority that view these boards. My problem was all of the so called truths that were not the truth. I even remember the thread after Joy said her bit in the so called interview. A couple were on here still saying the same old so called truths on the same thread after Joy had proved them to be false. But if you come out with what was the truth you have your head right up ACL's arse. I have apologised to who I needed to. Am willing to drive down for the weekend to have a few beers and chat with some on here. I live 4 hours away with good traffic. This site is the best way for me to keep informed on what is going on with my club. A few idiots won't make me leave. I try to only come out with the truth. If I am not sure I will say so. An educated guess is better than a guess that goes with what you think. This can be taken as the truth by some. Before you know it some know it as the truth. This don't help us at all to find out what is happening to our club. Just like interviews where questions are not asked.
Good Morning Torch!
Lets see if I can help you with your question, evidence can only be produced if an event has actually occurred, as SiSu don't own the Stadium, they cannot sub-lett it, therefore no evidence can be produced, that's why you cant see any.
Hope this makes things clearer.
with respect as always...Tankie
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
Let me help you. SBK stated SISU were charging the club rent while we were still at the Ricoh. Like you, I thought this was impossible hence me asking for evidence. SBK is very, very good at making stuff up: Would that be the evidence of what's been going on, of SISU charging rent to CCFC at the Ricoh before they were taken to Sixfields?...Open your eyes mate!.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I hope I'm not being out of order here but whenever I read the words "beloved SISU" I do tend to think, 'what a dick!'
How much sense would that make? What would be the purpose?
They would end up with absolutely no buyers of the club. And if the club was liquidated they would have only have created a Ricoh situation equal to now - a declinig business with decling value. They would lose money in that scenario.
Only one situation would benefit sisu - owning a financial viable stadium and a financial viable club playing there. It's a symbiotic relationship where together they are more valuable than the combined sum of them if seperated.
The two must be united under the same umbrella - be it Ricoh or a new stadium - only then will they both be viable.
And both will be sold on to the same buyer - Byng or Mr Rich Chinaman.
Here's a question for you: Sitting on the £14m loan to ACL, do you think the CCc have taken some kind of security against assets in ACL? I believe they have, if not they should be shot at dawn. And if they have - is that not exactly the same situation as the scenario you describe if you replace 'ARVO' with 'CCC'? Is that a profitable situation for CCc?
lewys33
Well-Known Member
Right here is my view on all of this. These are my views so dont ask me to "provide a link to evidence" please or any of that other crap. I am getting close to leaving the forum as well. Not a threat because in all honesty I probably wont. But people have become very narrow minded and it is pointless trying to debate with some.
So ....... Firstly, Grendel, you are full of shit. However I appreciate you are more anti-acl rather than pro-sisu, but your "selective hearing" as it were is your biggest downfall. You refuse to even consider that ACL did what was in their best interests and all you do is spout your usual "what about this, that and the other" using factually incorrect statements yet ignore other facts when they don't support your argument. Having said that you are probably the only person on here who can sometimes (albeit quite rarely) put a reasonable case forward for "the other side".
Anyway, with regards to how to end the stalement, quite simply I don't believe it is going to happen. ACL/CCC don't want to deal with these people. I think the cuts are too deep now. The other issue with regards to the ACL side is the complexity of the layout of ACL and the Ricoh as a business. It is almost as bad as the owners of CCFC! The only way I see buying the Ricoh is to actually buy ACL. With JS that isn't going to happen in my view. If it does, fair play, it shows people can grow up and get over it.
When this all started I was NOPM through and through. Now I see the bigger picture I am more KCIC. More becaue I think JS and her many companies are here for the long haul, until they can "get a return on their investment". So there isn't much point in this SISU OUT talk anymore. It didn't work years ago and it still isn't working.
From a CCFC point of view, I want them to buy the Ricoh. Cheap. I want it to be owned by CCFC. The reality is that isn't going to happen though.
ACL shouldn't have borught the court case on NTFC. It was a silly move. Now they may have to pay the price.
I do believe the Ricoh is profitable without CCFC. As much as Les Reid makes people doubt it. Simple mathematics done in my head shows this. Random figures (which I do believe are fairly accurate as I am sure I saw them somewhere but don't quote me on it)
£1 mill profit with CCFC paying £1.2 mill rent and mortgage repayments at £1 mill per year.
Therefore without the CCFC paying rent, but the mortgage now with CCC at a reduced rate.
£500k mortgage repayments, £0 rent from ccfc using exactly the same as above (obviously in reality it would be different) would result in a £300k profit.
I welcome people to challenge my views, but don't bother if you are going to quotee bullshit as fact bla bla bla. This is a forum full of people with different views. Respect that at least.
So ....... Firstly, Grendel, you are full of shit. However I appreciate you are more anti-acl rather than pro-sisu, but your "selective hearing" as it were is your biggest downfall. You refuse to even consider that ACL did what was in their best interests and all you do is spout your usual "what about this, that and the other" using factually incorrect statements yet ignore other facts when they don't support your argument. Having said that you are probably the only person on here who can sometimes (albeit quite rarely) put a reasonable case forward for "the other side".
Anyway, with regards to how to end the stalement, quite simply I don't believe it is going to happen. ACL/CCC don't want to deal with these people. I think the cuts are too deep now. The other issue with regards to the ACL side is the complexity of the layout of ACL and the Ricoh as a business. It is almost as bad as the owners of CCFC! The only way I see buying the Ricoh is to actually buy ACL. With JS that isn't going to happen in my view. If it does, fair play, it shows people can grow up and get over it.
When this all started I was NOPM through and through. Now I see the bigger picture I am more KCIC. More becaue I think JS and her many companies are here for the long haul, until they can "get a return on their investment". So there isn't much point in this SISU OUT talk anymore. It didn't work years ago and it still isn't working.
From a CCFC point of view, I want them to buy the Ricoh. Cheap. I want it to be owned by CCFC. The reality is that isn't going to happen though.
ACL shouldn't have borught the court case on NTFC. It was a silly move. Now they may have to pay the price.
I do believe the Ricoh is profitable without CCFC. As much as Les Reid makes people doubt it. Simple mathematics done in my head shows this. Random figures (which I do believe are fairly accurate as I am sure I saw them somewhere but don't quote me on it)
£1 mill profit with CCFC paying £1.2 mill rent and mortgage repayments at £1 mill per year.
Therefore without the CCFC paying rent, but the mortgage now with CCC at a reduced rate.
£500k mortgage repayments, £0 rent from ccfc using exactly the same as above (obviously in reality it would be different) would result in a £300k profit.
I welcome people to challenge my views, but don't bother if you are going to quotee bullshit as fact bla bla bla. This is a forum full of people with different views. Respect that at least.
Because if CCFC ever go into administration again (in case they find that they are, in fact, currently at the top of a spiral instead of the bottom of the cycle) Avro have first call and they are the biggest creditor. That's exactly the situation they engineered on this occasion with Avro having a debenture.
Of course CCC have a charge against the Ricoh but the difference is that they are simply protecting their investment. They are only making a small turn on the interest charge. Now let's see what the Avro/Sisu management and interest charges are in the CCFC accounts when they are published. Then you will see that it's not quite the same.
Come to think of it, didn't fisher say on the radio 2 months ago that the accounts were a few weeks away from completion? I wonder what could be holding them up.......?
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Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
@ Torchy....Prove I'm lying...If "Charging management fees" is not a rent what is?....SISU are supposed to OWN CCFC ffs. Don't call me a liar, your mate Grenduffy is the biggest liar/WUM on this forum
Can you actually prove that any money has gone from the club into sisu's pockets?
The management fee's were used to distribute cost between the companies in the group. Not to fill sisu's pockets.
JS and TF have said it - not one penny has gone back to sisu.
Unless you can prove them wrong, you are only making up assumption to support your allegience. Doesn't make you right though and so you're fooling yourself.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
@ Godiva....If you already OWN something, and put management charges on it, isn't that fee a kind of rent?.......You said...Can you actually prove that any money has gone from the club into sisu's pockets?......Can YOU prove it hasn't?...Why are the Caymen Is. involved....SISU have openly said they are charging management fees. The one thing you don't do is "RENT OUT" your skills to your own company, Totally unethical in my view, and if you disagree, then I would suggest that YOU have no ethics either!
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It dont make him wrong either Godiva. I'm not saying he's right but there is about as much chance as him being right as there is you, you are only making assumptions yourself. the truth is unless you have access to shitsu's internal workings we will never find out where the managemnt fees go and what service has been provided for them, its a pretty empty description "management fee's" it could mean anything.