Commercial Suicide (7 Viewers)

[Grendel]

The house where Joy lives is worth a lot more than that, it cost more and has increased in value since London property has been booming.

It was a very good investment.

Clearly ranson didn't recommend the purchase then

 

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[lewys33]

That's a perfect definition of business

Can't argue with that one.

This 6 million house in London you speak of. Did she pay £6 million? Or did she pay £500,000 after financially distressing the owners?

 

[John_Silletts_Nose]

Clearly ranson didn't recommend the purchase then

Rather than listen to Ranson she should have listened to the advice of Alan Sugar who said that owning Tottenham was a "waste of 10 years of my life".

... and Sugar made a profit when he sold Tottenham!

 

[cochese]

As a now retired successful business man, having run my own companies for over 30 years, I cannot for the life of me understand Sisu Capital's wish to continue throwing investors money down the pan when a possibly cheaper alternative would be to re-negotiate with ACL. As an investor in stocks and shares myself, there is no way I would invest in Sisu Capital Ltd -- I find it strange that others do !
What exactly Sisu is hoping to achieve, as a business man, baffles me ! Had my company been losing money each week hand over fist and there was a way I could stem these loses and increase my customer base, I would be negotiating like crazy to do so.
To me, Sisu is committing commercial suicide - and I can't think why !

There's a very simple reason why investors will put their money into ventures with SISU, and particularly the football club and that's because of the Premier League. One season in the premier league could pretty much wipe out any debt accrued over the previous years trying to get there. Getting there of course isn't exactly easy as we've found out of course of time.

And with regards to negotiating a deal to get back to the Ricoh, well in the short term, yes that does sound like a practical decision. But having rented for the past 10 years and seen little to no benefit to the club I would guess that they are no longer will to play at a stadium on rental terms. It's like if you rent a house for years, you get nothing in return and watch your landlord reap the benefits. But as soon as you buy something it becomes an asset that you own. And when it comes to owning the stadium, you get everything else that comes with it from a commercial aspect.

If you rent the stadium, you get more ticket money. You own the stadium and you get the ticket money and all the commercial money that comes with it. There's your reason why they are taking this approach. The biggest worry isn't the short term losses that the club seem to be willing to take, it's the fan base that will lose interest in the team.

 

[lewys33]

Ray Ranson left at the right time. If he would have stayed he would have been hung drawn and quartered by now. He is another one who seems to avoid any blame for this.

 

[James Smith]

So do you live in a £6 million house in London?

Given the rampant rise of house prices in London my house which is not huge and only has two bedrooms, is probably worth over a million. It wasn't worth anything like that when I bought it but there's a strong suspicion that there is another house price bubble at the moment down here. It has almost certainly gone up as an identical one in worse condition (I had a look round) has sold just down the road for well over a million. This of course assumes that you count a house as yours and not part owned by the bank thanks to a mortgage.

How do you know how much her house is worth out of interest.

 

[Jack Griffin]

Check her postcode on Zoopla, actually it is a £12M property.

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/home-values/london/wycombe-square/w8-7jd/

 

[kevinleftpeg]

I do not give a monkey's chuff where Joy lives & how much her pad is worth. My Team is playing in Northampton & it's SISU's mistakes that has put us there.

So please 'do one' & give us our Club back & go recoup your millions somewhere else.
2008 collapse is a distant memory to these hedge fund sharks so it should be a pice of piss.

NOPM

 

[Grendel]

Given the rampant rise of house prices in London my house which is not huge and only has two bedrooms, is probably worth over a million. It wasn't worth anything like that when I bought it but there's a strong suspicion that there is another house price bubble at the moment down here. It has almost certainly gone up as an identical one in worse condition (I had a look round) has sold just down the road for well over a million. This of course assumes that you count a house as yours and not part owned by the bank thanks to a mortgage.

How do you know how much her house is worth out of interest.

The average price of a two bedroom house in London is £620,000

 

[Grappa]

The average price of a two bedroom house in London is £620,000

Yes, I'm intrigued to discover what area he lives in, for some reason I thought it was Walthamstow.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

For what it's worth her and Bill's house in Florida has counsil/property tax rates of $7.2k p/year.

As for work the rent on her small London Office is £247k p/year plus rates and management fees so she's doing ok financially. In comparison I must say though that 150k p/year is a lot for a 32,609 seat state of the art sports arena isn't it? Mind you despite paying that £247k it does include the profit from the tea and coffee machine.

As for FFP I put a post on here some time ago that with gates of 2000 plus the extra cash from various other revenue streams our FFP budget would be around 11 grand a week or in other words less than Baker, L Clarke and Murphy. Not good!

 

[Grendel]

For what it's worth her and Bill's house in Florida has counsil/property tax rates of $7.2k p/year.

As for work the rent on her small London Office is £247k p/year plus rates and management fees so she's doing ok financially. In comparison I must say though that 150k p/year is a lot for a 32,609 seat state of the art sports arena isn't it? Mind you despite paying that £247k it does include the profit from the tea and coffee machine.

As for FFP I put a post on here some time ago that with gates of 2000 plus the extra cash from various other revenue streams our FFP budget would be around 11 grand a week or in other words less than Baker, L Clarke and Murphy. Not good!

FFP includes SISU funding and the League will compensate for special circumstances - nice try though

 

[John_Silletts_Nose]

The estimated rental valuation on the London house is £34,000 per month, which is approx £400k per year.

The Ricoh Arena has a lot more bedrooms and better parking.

 

[bigfatronssba]

FFP includes SISU funding and the League will compensate for special circumstances - nice try though

Ffp funding can only be considered in the form of donations. Basically sisu cant lend money to the club to get around Ffp.

Your glorious leaders are going to have to put their hands in their pockets to cover this one.

 

[stupot07]

Ffp funding can only be considered in the form of donations. Basically sisu cant lend money to the club to get around Ffp.

Your glorious leaders are going to have to put their hands in their pockets to cover this one.

To be fair, the FL will have to show common sense and leniency, as long as we're not taking the piss, which looking at our squad we're clearly not, the FL will show discretion with regards FFP. The current embargo we are under means that we have to make 25% saving on wages with each outgoing player, other than that I don't expect any other sanctions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors

 

[bigfatronssba]

To be fair, the FL will have to show common sense and leniency, as long as we're not taking the piss, which looking at our squad we're clearly not, the FL will show discretion with regards FFP. The current embargo we are under means that we have to make 25% saving on wages with each outgoing player, other than that I don't expect any other sanctions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - so please excuse and spelling or grammar errors

I just think if the league don't apply the rules fairly across all clubs then all will be looking for excuses as to why it shouldn't apply to them.

Mk Dons could equally claim they haven't had a chance to build up a fan base yet so it shouldn't apply to them.

 

[Grendel]

Ffp funding can only be considered in the form of donations. Basically sisu cant lend money to the club to get around Ffp.

Your glorious leaders are going to have to put their hands in their pockets to cover this one.

What a very strange thing to say.

You remind me of Lee J Cobb in the excellent Twelve Angry Men. A man so consumed by blind hatred and prejudice he would ultimately sacrifice even the things he values dearly if he can rid himself of his demons.

Look at your comment - effectively you are saying if SISU remain in power you want the club to penalised in FPP rules, you want the club to sell it's talent and you want the club to reduce in status unless SISU disappear.

SISU will remain until they get what they want. You are effectively wanting the club to suffer because of its current owners. The club has been in existence for well over a century. To want all that eradicated just so the current owners will suffer defies logic. It is illogical.

The Lee J Cobb character eventually realised his folly and that his blind hatred was crushing his beliefs. He said "not guilty" in the end as he stood there humiliated and broken. The same crushing reality will hit you one day - lets hope not too late.

 

[bigfatronssba]

What a very strange thing to say.

You remind me of Lee J Cobb in the excellent Twelve Angry Men. A man so consumed by blind hatred and prejudice he would ultimately sacrifice even the things he values dearly if he can rid himself of his demons.

Look at your comment - effectively you are saying if SISU remain in power you want the club to penalised in FPP rules, you want the club to sell it's talent and you want the club to reduce in status unless SISU disappear.

SISU will remain until they get what they want. You are effectively wanting the club to suffer because of its current owners. The club has been in existence for well over a century. To want all that eradicated just so the current owners will suffer defies logic. It is illogical.

The Lee J Cobb character eventually realised his folly and that his blind hatred was crushing his beliefs. He said "not guilty" in the end as he stood there humiliated and broken. The same crushing reality will hit you one day - lets hope not too late.

All I said was with ffp money has to be in the form of donations, not loans.

If you think any of us want to be in this situation (except Pete from Styvichall) then you really don't understand your fellow fans.

 

[stupot07]

I just think if the league don't apply the rules fairly across all clubs then all will be looking for excuses as to why it shouldn't apply to them.

Mk Dons could equally claim they haven't had a chance to build up a fan base yet so it shouldn't apply to them.

Don't think mk dons could claim that given they had the 5th highest average attendance last season.

In the extenuating circumstances to which the FL have been complicit in causing, I really can't see how they can rigidly apply those rules to us. I know what you're saying, but as long as we're not taking the piss and our wage bill is broadly average for the league, I honestly don't think they will punish us.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Don't think mk dons could claim that given they had the 5th highest average attendance last season.

In the extenuating circumstances to which the FL have been complicit in causing, I really can't see how they can rigidly apply those rules to us. I know what you're saying, but as long as we're not taking the piss and our wage bill is broadly average for the league, I honestly don't think they will punish us.

I just think the way were playing we will beat someone to the play offs.

I can't see the chairman of that team excepting that. I can see a situation where they will be after compensation from the league.

 

[skybluetony176]

All I said was with ffp money has to be in the form of donations, not loans.

If you think any of us want to be in this situation (except Pete from Styvichall) then you really don't understand your fellow fans.

yes, but you are not allowed to prove grendull wrong, so the only thing he can possibly do is twist your words to try and make you look silly and wrap it up in a pile off bullshit trying to make him look well read and therefore he must be more intelligent than you so you couldn't have possibly proved him wrong.

 

[stupot07]

I just think the way were playing we will beat someone to the play offs.

I can't see the chairman of that team excepting that. I can see a situation where they will be after compensation from the league.

All they can do is put us in a transfer embargo, they can't force you to sell players, so there is no grounds for clubs to claim compensation.

 

[The Prefect]

As a now retired successful business man, having run my own companies for over 30 years, I cannot for the life of me understand Sisu Capital's wish to continue throwing investors money down the pan when a possibly cheaper alternative would be to re-negotiate with ACL. As an investor in stocks and shares myself, there is no way I would invest in Sisu Capital Ltd -- I find it strange that others do !
What exactly Sisu is hoping to achieve, as a business man, baffles me ! Had my company been losing money each week hand over fist and there was a way I could stem these loses and increase my customer base, I would be negotiating like crazy to do so.
To me, Sisu is committing commercial suicide - and I can't think why !

A great point VoR they are committing commercial suicide.

In my opinion there isn't a plan other than 'wait and see'. The Football League foolishly give the club up to 5 years away from Coventry - so JS will push that to the limit to see what happens with ACL.

I believe their MO will be their downfall with Coventry City. SISU buy distressed companies, turn them round quickly and sell on at a profit. With CCFC they failed to do that. To support the club they layered on debt by borrowing money from other funds through a multi-tiered corporate structure designed to keep the loans at full value so their other funds don't have to 'write-off' the debts even when one company goes bankrupt. SISU's problem is not that they won't sell - they CAN'T sell because no-one will pay for their debts at full value.

Take a look at SISU's negotiating tactics. They're only designed to deal with desperate sellers i.e. over time you move the goalposts further away from the seller with every meeting. Problems with ACL started as a 'rent dispute' - when a lower offer of rent was made (remember the £400k?) they then layered on the 'matchday income' issue. When a proposal to cross-invoice was made the next issue was 'ACL isn't worth the price we originally agreed'. A few weeks later it is now 'we return when we own the freehold of the Ricoh'. Classic tactics for making owners of a distressed business more willing to sell - especially if they have personal money on the line!

The mistake SISU made is that Higgs, ACL, Coventry Council and Compass (yes they're involved as well) aren't desperate sellers so SISU's tactics don't work. JS has backed herself into a corner and now the club is not viable. She can attract investors to build a stadium (I believe she can) in an attempt to keep the thing afloat so that the debts owed by the club to other funds are held at full value.

JS has NO choice but to continue because there is no way out. She's banking on fans pressure on ACL, Higgs and the Council to push through a sale of the Ricoh. That won't happen so a stadium will be built at some time late in year four in order to hit the fifth year deadline (I really think they'll push in to year six or seven if possible). It will be the cheapest stadium possible so they they can keep the debts afloat.

The fan's only hope is that the club goes into administration again. I understood the Football League's insolvency rules stop the same owners buying back the club twice. I'm more convinced than ever that NOPM is the right way to go because without it SISU are here for the long (very long) term.

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Ffp funding can only be considered in the form of donations. Basically sisu cant lend money to the club to get around Ffp.

Your glorious leaders are going to have to put their hands in their pockets to cover this one.

Correct. Can not be as loans. Isn't there also a limit to how much can be gifted?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

Sorry to say but they have done that to a lot of us me included. Yes i maybe blinkered but I hate them more every time we play in Northampton and it is irreversible and making us all biter and twisted.

the quicker they go the better or I'm afraid we will all go.....

SHAME on them Shame on me

That post just cheered me up a bit on an uneventful nightshift lol

I know you're right. Sisu have zapped any enthusiasm i had for our club right out of me.

I just want to go back to block 28 in the telegraph stand.

 

[georgehudson]

acutely accurate TP, a reasoned view, wait for the diatribe from the usuals,
but a 'big up' from me for the points you made

 

[Jack Griffin]

acutely accurate TP, a reasoned view, wait for the diatribe from the usuals,
but a 'big up' from me for the points you made

I concur, very well put from TP.